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gerard
09-22-2004, 09:29 AM
Hello

I am thinking of using an equalizer like behringer 8024 with memory to have the same or ( about ) the same sound between cd and record .

My cd's have much less low medium than my records .
Of course I could change my phono cartridge ( and have one with a flatter low medium ) to have the same low medium but I use an empire cartridge I like a lot .

Anyway for the same recording the cd does not have the same spacial bass than the record ! .

any advise ?

gerard

boputnam
09-22-2004, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by gerard
...the same sound between cd and record Hey, Gerard...

Many of us find we cannot get CD's to sound alike from CD to CD! So, you may not get very satisfactory results. :( If you are going CD direct, and have little/no EQ on your pre-amp, maybe you only need de-EQ the vinyl...?

I don't know the Behringer - let me look at it...

boputnam
09-22-2004, 10:52 AM
That Behringer is digital. At that price point I'm afraid you're going to get poor results. It might be less obvious in a live sound (PA) applications (sorry, Oldmics!!), but in critical listening, this could be grainy. You just can't get good filters at this price point, IMO. I'd spend the same dollars and go dbx1231 - it's pretty darn good, or double your money for the Ashly3102. And, if you're not "needing" EQ now, you might bypass these when using CD's, and only use them with vinyl. Although, once you get them your world will open...

(ps the Ashly is "out of the circuit" when the filters are at 0dBu)

gerard
09-22-2004, 12:26 PM
hello

what about other non digital behringer eq ?

If you do not use equalizer and no bass and treble on your preamp I wonder you can have sometimes some surprise with some records or cd ????

every label record ( ex jazz ) has his sound and some times it is not so good
columbia used to be neutral - comtemporary very good and dynamic - Japanese pressing offer a very small trebel specially japanese prestige pressing and so on .
sometimes you need to eq ?

Am I wrong ?

Gerard

dancing-dave
09-22-2004, 12:50 PM
My buddy Scott Fitlin uses the White EQs and they have a very smooth and clean sound to them. Also a very excellent bargain if you check around.

boputnam
09-22-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by gerard
what about other non digital behringer eq ?

sometimes you need to eq ?

Am I wrong ? Hey, Gerard...

No, you are not wrong. Many of us use EQ's to accomodate the room acoustics ('cause we KNOW our rigs and speakers are flat... ;) ), but, not many adjust them for specific CD's. Well, at least I don't... The "problems" you hear - say between different CD's - relates to different producers and engineers, and we have talked about "not liking" much of our CD collection as we have improved our systems. An unexpected consequence!

I don't recall the issue of CD EQ vs vinyl EQ'ing coming up here, but it is a unique condition, and needs a unique solution. I don't have an answer beyond bypassing the EQ for your CD listening if you don't otherwise use/need an EQ (but I'll bet you need a little bit...).

Behringer is a conundrum. They make gear at very attractive price points - gear that is quite appealing, from description. I do know they get sued a great deal for patent infringement - such action is often more pronounced on less-expensive competition, so their gear must be at least good - but I cannot decide if it is great. It is spited in the Pro world, but so is JBL in many circles (and, so is EV but my QRx mains have encouraged many to give it a rethink).

Full Disclosure: I use (now, Oldmics will :scold: me...) Behringer's XR4400 multi-channel gate on the skins of the drum kit, and I get very good results. It incorporates a side-chain filter and industry-fastest response times that yield great performance. The incorporated side-chain filter appealed to me (I'm outa rack space, but that is always the case...). But, I'm using it only on drums, so the gate is not so audible. I am also playing around with their MDX4600 multi-channel for expansion on vocal mics, but am not quite there, yet. I do not use any compression, at present.

Behringer's GEQ3102 has to at-least be competitive with Rane, and may approach the filters in the dbx, but comparisons might stop there. They are not trying to compete with Ashly, White, Klark-Technik, etc., and don't need to. I'd say - what the heck - give it a try, and if you're not pleased, eBay. If you have a bit more to spend, I'd encourage the dbx choice, but again, would steer you off their digital line. And, I'd steer you to the 3RU sized units - it is my impression there is less phase distortion introduced with the filters in the the longer-fader models, but that is only a hunch.

Just my opinions here. Let us know what you do, and how you like it.

I do encourage you buy the very best analogue EQ you can afford (and use it sparingly). It is a very important component in the signal path.

gerard
09-22-2004, 01:50 PM
thank for your advise Boputnam !.

In fact if you compare the sound between cd and vinyl unless you choose a specific hono cartridge which have the same sound as your cd player and cd you will find a difference and sometimes great !

Anyway if you choose to have Jbl t is because you like the Jbl sound and you may also do the same for your cartridge ; you can't paly like this with your cd player ... unless eq !

i have tryed john wesley harding ( bob dylan) original cbs us pressing columbia who got too much bass on vinyl may be and do not have so much on Cd ....

Tact preamp are fully digital and inculde eq system and peolpel says it is very very good and expensive too ... so digital may not be so bad ....

I will on the net and look at your advise for analohg eq .

Best regards

gerard

boputnam
09-22-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by gerard
I will on the net and look at your advise for analohg eq . A really good digital EQ will be very expensive - that is my point. Low-price ones are not a good idea - not yet. Good luck!

scott fitlin
09-22-2004, 03:30 PM
get additional preamps such as ART units and insert these between your CD player and mixer or preamps inputs! Double preamping will allow you to raise the apparent gain and match it to vinyl, and fatten and warm up your CD sound!

gerard
09-22-2004, 04:32 PM
hi scott

what type of art preamp ?

In fact the problem is not gain or may be i did not clearly understand , I have gain ... it is more the bass seems to have some limitation in space like if it is 200 hz it will sound from 150 to 250 hz ; with vinyl it seems the bass goes from 50 to 400 hz !!!.you will hear the bass resonance .

gerard

scott fitlin
09-22-2004, 05:40 PM
I will have to ask my friend exactly what hes using between the CD and mixer!

The reason they do this wasnt ONLY to level match CD to vinyl, but to give the CD,s the same type of bass harmonics, weight and tonality as vinyl!

Get back to you soon!

gerard
09-23-2004, 03:18 AM
Scott

very interesting
I shall wait for news ...

Best regards

gerard

JBL 4645
01-04-2008, 02:17 PM
That Behringer is digital. At that price point I'm afraid you're going to get poor results. It might be less obvious in a live sound (PA) applications (sorry, Oldmics!!), but in critical listening, this could be grainy. You just can't get good filters at this price point, IMO. I'd spend the same dollars and go dbx1231 - it's pretty darn good, or double your money for the Ashly3102. And, if you're not "needing" EQ now, you might bypass these when using CD's, and only use them with vinyl. Although, once you get them your world will open...

(ps the Ashly is "out of the circuit" when the filters are at 0dBu)

bop

Sorry about the picture link I was curious to know what it looked like that’s all.

http://www.bp-lighting.com/dbx.1231.jpg

I was listening to a pod-cast a few weeks back with Tom Holman talking to few British guys about many issues concerning surround sound, then he mentioned about the differences that the sound mixing engineer is faced with. He calmed some LP records sounded best because these (mixing engineers) in the US have the skills and techniques to do good mastering.

I’ll find the link to the pod-cast even thou I have it saved on the pc for reference use.

Edit: now I remember he was talking about the Audyssey EQ.

I’ll find the link to the pod-cast even thou I have it saved on the pc for reference use.

Found it scroll down the page a bit until you see the title heading (AVForums Home Cinema Podcast : 6th December 2007)
http://www.avforums.com/index.php?page=podcast (http://www.avforums.com/index.php?page=podcast)