Altec A4 questions

[christoj1969]

I have a friend who recently bought a theater in central New York and there are a set of 3 Altec A4 speakers with horns that we dont know much about.

What was the msrp on these?

Reasale value? They sounded amazing hooked up to a Crown MT600 before being moved out of the theater.

There were 5 until 2 were disassembled so that the 3/4 plywood could be used elsewhere (doh!......)

I actually have the 4 Altec 515 speakers that came out of the 2 speakers that were disassembled. Could I build a cabinet somewhat smaller with these and have an enjoyable speaker at home? ( I have some Klipsch HeresyI that I love).

I am working with a couple of local resellers and am looking for whatever info/help I can get so as not to get burned. The money recieved from the sale will all be reinvested into the theaters restoration that they have come out of.

Thanks for any help

[mlr]

Ya, these are worth a bundle of loot. If you intend to sell them, pull the woofers and list on ebay. Be prepared to ship overseas. The cabs will also sell even with pick-up only. Do you still have the wings? If the woofers are early enough, that is with red, white, and blue "hollywood" labels they'll fetch even more. You probably have N500D crossovers on these, which can bring $600+ a pair. What horns/drivers do these have? They're worth a lot as well.

The 515 is a terrific speaker in my opinion. Easily the most efficient woofer Altec offered. Phenolic spiders. Cones are designed to be replaceable in the field by the operator. Not that I'd suggest doing so, but if you wanted a better bass response you can recone these as a 515B. These were designed specifically for bass horns so I don't know how well they'd perform in other applications.

If you intend to convert the theatre to digital sound, do not be fooled into thinking you need newer, high powered JBL's. You have 3, so you have your screen speakers, and they will blow away typical 4648's, etc. I had this same deal, however I did sell mine for enough to fund a complete JBL screen array, dual 18" subs, and 12 8333 surrounds so if you need the loot these will do it for you.

[christoj1969]

Why take these apart and sell? Why not sell as a complete set? The horns are 288C on 30210 (for whatever that means....). I have hooked up my Crown MT600 and they sound amazing.

There are also 2 horns, model 30162, as well as 4- Altel 515 woofers. Is there anyone out there that knows of a decent cabinet design that is half the size of these in the pics that I could build and put in my house? Or is this just an unreasonable thought?

I have searched and searched and these speakers seem to be something really special.

What is a reasonable asking price for the 3 complete A4 and 288C horns?





Ya, these are worth a bundle of loot. If you intend to sell them, pull the woofers and list on ebay. Be prepared to ship overseas. The cabs will also sell even with pick-up only. Do you still have the wings? If the woofers are early enough, that is with red, white, and blue "hollywood" labels they'll fetch even more. You probably have N500D crossovers on these, which can bring $600+ a pair. What horns/drivers do these have? They're worth a lot as well.

The 515 is a terrific speaker in my opinion. Easily the most efficient woofer Altec offered. Phenolic spiders. Cones are designed to be replaceable in the field by the operator. Not that I'd suggest doing so, but if you wanted a better bass response you can recone these as a 515B. These were designed specifically for bass horns so I don't know how well they'd perform in other applications.

If you intend to convert the theatre to digital sound, do not be fooled into thinking you need newer, high powered JBL's. You have 3, so you have your screen speakers, and they will blow away typical 4648's, etc. I had this same deal, however I did sell mine for enough to fund a complete JBL screen array, dual 18" subs, and 12 8333 surrounds so if you need the loot these will do it for you.

[mlr]

>>Why take these apart and sell?<<
I'm not advocating you do so.

>>Why not sell as a complete set?<<
You'll not get anywhere near the value of the individual components when sold as complete.

>>The horns are 288C on 30210 (for whatever that means....).<<
288C = the compression driver model. 30210 = horn throat. The horn is the multi-cell attached to the throat. How many cells are on these horns, and are the horns solid across the top/bottom, or can you see the full trumpet (or whatever it's called) of each cell? Makes a big difference in value.

>>Is there anyone out there that knows of a decent cabinet design that is half the size of these in the pics that I could build and put in my house? Or is this just an unreasonable thought?<<
You can build, or buy A5/A7 cabinets which would be very nice.

>>I have searched and searched and these speakers seem to be something really special<<
In my opinion they are. They're not rare, but are getting very difficult to obtain, and very expensive.

Pictures of the components would help ID these. FYI: 3 A4's together (including the wings, and 1 805, 1005, or 1505 horn) become an A1.

[christoj1969]

If you would be interested in seeing pics I could email you a whole bunch of what I have taken.

The horns a 10 cell and solid body (if you would call it that).

Difficult and hard to obtain? And expensive? What is considered expensive? I have no idea.....

.......and btw I appreciate the time and input you have made here.

Cheers, ~CK

[mlr]

No sweat, don't have anything better to do.
The horn is a Tar Filled, and either a 1005, or a 1003. Based on the horn, I think these are very early. Nice find.

If you send the pics, I'll try and help you id, etc. If you include the horn dimensions it would help.

[email protected]

[voice of theatr]

You might want to consider posting your questions (and photos) about these speakers on the Altec User's Board. There are former Altec Lansing contractors and former Altec Lansing employees there and other experts who could really give you a lot of info on these. They are gems, and can certainly be put in smaller cabinets and fine tuned to be excellent home hi fi speakers. People there discuss this sort of thing regularly (as well as their resale value). Here's the link:

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f700/altec-users-board.html

Posting a few pictures there of the horns and woofers/cabinets would get you some excellent advice/info as that board is dedicated exclusively to vintage Altec Lansing gear and is populated by Altec aficionados. BTW, I've gotten some nice Altec assistance here as well as this board is dedicated to both JBL and Altec....

[cradeldorf]

What an awesome find!!! If you feel all tingly inside it's ok, It's normal. :) Glad to see them saved.

[Altec Best]

They are most likely 1005's (10 cell) horns the others are 805's (8 cell). The 30210 is the throat adapter number and that is for a 1005 the 30162 is for the 805 horns.

[audiomagnate]

Why not just keep them in place? I don't get it. It's a movie theater and those are the best movie theater speakers ever.

[hatrack71]

Better yet, why not just move them into your house, sell all your chit to make room and enjoy. You have a major piece of history there.

[christoj1969]

I appreciate all the input friends. The choice to sell them was not mine. The theatre has a performance stage and 2 movie theaters. Its the Uptown Theater in Utica, NY. A very nice place and the owner wanted to get rid of them mostly because of how much room they take up.

.....anyway, they have been sold. Someone drove from Detroit on literally a moments notice and made an exceptional offer. He will either enjoy them a whole bunch or has a market to resell them.

Thanks once again for the help here and I will definetly be heading over to the Altec chat to discuss refurbishing the Altec Vott A7 speakers that I acquired out of arranging the sale of the A4 set.

Cheers, ~CK

[biglovesam]

I am building a speaker box similar to the VOTT 211 . I am going to make it 10" shorter , maybe 27" wide because I am only loading it with a 21" sub , and may do it 47" deep because I have been doing hard research and seen that the A1 was 46.5" deep . plus I want to get it thru door ways . I was going to do a 210 but the top seems unused . Any tips ?

[Earl K]

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/thumbs/enclosures03_small.jpg (http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/enclosures03.jpg) http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/thumbs/enclosures04_small.jpg (http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/enclosures04.jpg)

:blink:

[Altec Best]

Thanks once again for the help here and I will definetly be heading over to the Altec chat to discuss refurbishing the Altec Vott A7 speakers that I acquired out of arranging the sale of the A4 set.

Cheers, ~CK

IMHO you got a fabulous deal there.Your speakers are actually A5's,288B's with 1005's and 515 woofers. N-500-C crossovers.All original parts. Nice ! :applaud:

[biglovesam]

552665526755268 I found those blueprints already , the blue print I need is of the A1 with 3 15s in each cab with details of the angles of distribution , I would want the max 60* vertical and 125* Horizontal , and now I need to figure out those bends .

[mlr]

An "A1" is 3 210's (A4's) combined, w/wings, and a 805, 1005, or 1505 horn.

[GPM]

FWIW, the original A1 consisted of [2] 310 woofer horns, but was changed early on to the [3] 210 array. Never seen/heard of any others beside this one being built though and AFAIK, EV kept what they wanted and destroyed all the rest of Altec's documentation. Ditto the A3 single 310 horn system not listed in this 1945 catalog: http://www.voiceofthetheatre.com/vottcat.1945.th.htm

GM55269

[biglovesam]

Is there any member who has a 310 cabinet ? Would like some pictures . Also I am wondering if the horn should be wider with using a 21" speaker ? Is there any other threads on the A4 A3 A2 A1 210 211 or 310 , some more pictures to add to my Altec album would be nice .

[stephane RAME]

1/2 A210 http://www.the-planet.org/A210.html :eek:

Stéphane

[Lee in Montreal]

1/2 A210 http://www.the-planet.org/A210.html :eek: It hurt so bad when they put the sawzall into it... :banghead:

[biglovesam]

Other than a 310 A1 or A3 that may be extinct there may be no better information . The last things for me to figure out is if I should make the horn opening greater than the stock 9 13/16" because I'm using one 21" speaker and how to alter the horn to get the 60 by 125 angles of distribution . Box size 74" h 27" w 47" d . 55276 The horn and speaker mount I need to build a little altered of course 55277 http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon12.png

[Lee in Montreal]

The bigger the cone, the less midrange you'll get. 21" wooders are not known for their clean 800Hz... Considering that the design of the A4 was to acoustically amplify that midrange, I wonder if you picked the correct design for that woofer, or the correct woofer for that enclosure design. Just curious.

[biglovesam]

I only discovered the 1930s area Alec shearer about a week ago and I was so tempted to build it instead but I have been set on a A4 210 box for the longest time . My friend , a musician , told me he had a pair of A4s many years ago and every time he hooked them up the cops where called so I have confidence that mine will sound great . My plan is to sell of some my odd speakers and do lots more gigs to raise some money to buy another 21" speaker at 800+ dollars and build a Shearer box next and repeat the process . The Shearer was even shallower at 30" deep , I will make mine the same dimensions as my current project at 27"w74"h47"d and seal the rear center behind the speaker , it should give me even more deep bass , the Dubstep will sound and feel so good . 5528055281 and my boxes are 4000 watts continuous verses the 18watt shearer .

[Lee in Montreal]

Yup. I think your 21" woofer is better suited for a Shearer or any other "W bin" style cabinets. Remember that cabinet designs respect specific acoustic rules and cannot be altered without affecting the end results. Throat size, mouth size, horn length, back chamber.

[biglovesam]

Decisions ! You got me worried now , how well will my bass out put be with a 211 type box I'm building ? I have crossover EQS compressors and I can adjust the higher lows all I want . I am at a point where my end result can be a 211 or a Shearer , but I have no blue prints or good pictures of a Shearer and I want to get the box done today . I think my higher lows will be fine , I'm more concerned with how low I can go and how good the lows will sound . Do you or anyone have Shearer blue prints or pictures ?


:crying:

[tomt]

here are a few -

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30727-Shearer-at-the-online-museum&highlight=

[Lee in Montreal]

How about building a single woofer version of a Bertha? Cabinet and Levan extension can be as big as a small kitchen though... ;)

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9939/eawbh882.jpg
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/9/1511292/Bertha2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/JBL%20parts%20factory/BerthaLevan.jpg

[biglovesam]

I'm going to finish this one as a single 21" 211 type and as soon as I can get another $200 for the materials I will build the single 21" Shearer type with the extension . Then I can swap the speaker from box to box and see witch sounds better , until I get rich and can buy more $800 21" speakers and build more boxes . I never thought I would find so much information hear , thanks everyone .

[Lee in Montreal]

If I had an industrial loft and no neighboor, I'd go the Bertha way... and maybe I'd be reasonable and only build two singles instead of the usual double woofer units... ;)

http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/24/dd88f6f52faa71570e995abfe1401241/l.jpg

[Charles0322]

A single 18" bertha style cab is called an Emerald :) and when you put two together I think it adds a bit more punch than a Bertha given the added stiffness and material.

There are four of these in a club in Old Montreal, (unfortunately closed for the time being due to mismanagement..)

I def want to build four Emeralds as their sound is tremendous. loaded with 2242H.. A single Crown Macrotech 3600VZ is tight on the sub bass.

----

As for this config for Stereo Montreal :)

This was a reference class system. I can tell you that I had listened to this system loud for hours on end..

When I played on her at low volumes, the dynamics would fill the room, vocals were like the singer was in front of you.

The room had acoustical challenges but it was a giant beautiful monster & I miss her. this was an analogue beast.. Stereo is now a digital system.

If you want dynamic range this was the best system I ever heard.. it was slightly underpowered so at high volumes it would be slightly limited.

6 stack system btw.




If I had an industrial loft and no neighboor, I'd go the Bertha way... and maybe I'd be reasonable and only build two singles instead of the usual double woofer units... ;)

http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/24/dd88f6f52faa71570e995abfe1401241/l.jpg

[GPM]

Is there any member who has a 310 cabinet ? Would like some pictures . Also I am wondering if the horn should be wider with using a 21" speaker ? Is there any other threads on the A4 A3 A2 A1 210 211 or 310 , some more pictures to add to my Altec album would be nice .

You're welcome!

Horns must be designed based on its T/S specs for best total performance. The various VOTT designs are all truncated designs to only fill in a relatively small portion of the driver's total potential cab loading BW below its break-up modes BW, so the odds of the 21" performing well in a 210 cab is virtually nil. Ditto the Shearer W fold horn.

So, what driver and its measured specs and frequency response? Or at least factory published if its known to provide accurate enough data for horn design.

GM

[biglovesam]

I will sand the face where needed and paint it with expoxy paint . The lows are great and the amount of mid-range get so loud , I was not expecting such loud mid-range like you would get from a stack of 8 12s . I need to make some money now so I can buy more and build a W cab with extensions shearer-bertha-emerald type , I want to get the max low bass amplified output . I am running it bridged to a Berhringer Europower 4000 , I never let my amps clip blinking red and I wounder if a top brand amplifier would not clip and push it harder ? .4000 watts 5537955380553815538255383
Specifications

530 mm (21 in)

Nominal Diameter

4 ohm
Nominal Impedance

4.2 ohm
Minimum Impedance

4000 W
Continuous Power Handling

2000 W
Nominal Power Handling (AES)

96 dB
Sensitivity (1W/1m)

30 - 1000 Hz
Frequency Range

153 mm (6 in)
Voice Coil Diameter

Copper
Winding Material

Glass Fibre
Former Material

Neodymium Ring
Magnet Material

30 mm (1.18 in)
Winding Depth

12 mm (0.5 in)
Magnetic Gap Depth

1.2 T
Flux Density

Design

Triple Roll
Surround Shape

Radial
Cone Shape

Neodymium Ring
Magnet Type

Double Silicone
Spider

T-Pole
Pole Design

190 dm3 (6.71 ft3)
Recommended enclosure volume

33 Hz
Recommended tuning frequency

Parameters

32 Hz
Fs

3.4 ohm
Re

0.31
Qes

7
Qms

0.3
Qts

200 dm3 (7.00 ft3)
Vas

1680 cm2 (260.40 in2)
Sd

2.2 %
η0

± 15 mm
Xmax

± 16 mm
Xvar

460 g
Mms

32.5 Txm
Bl

1.5 mH
Le

103 Hz
EBP

Mounting and Shipping info

547 mm (21.5 in)
Overall Diameter

527 mm (20.7 in)
Bolt Circle Diameter

508 mm (20 in)
Baffle Cutout Diameter

261 mm (10.3 in)
Depth

16 mm (0.63 in)
Flange and Gasket Thickness

16 dm3 (0.56 ft3)
Air volume occupied by driver

18.5 kg (40.7 lb)
Net Weight

[biglovesam]

For now I am going to make an adapter so I can use an 18" sub in my 211.21 box , until I can afford more 21s . My next box I'm building size 6'2"x47"x25 will hopefully go down to a few hertz , I looked at W bins Shearer Bertha Emerald Tuba and Titan and come up with my own design . I'm also trying to sell of my odd speakers so I can get more 21s and I need better amplifiers . I am running this monster with a Behringer Europower 4000 bridged and its not enough , the amp clips way to easily and I am not going to fry my 6" voice coil . Was looking at a Crown 5002VZ on auction but the price keeps going up and the others online are already above $1500 . Hears my one Altec piece I am going to sell http://rockford.craigslist.org/msg/2967675248.html.