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johnaec
09-19-2004, 08:40 AM
Is it just me or are others also having issues with forum pages loading? It often stops loading about halfway through and I'll have to hit the refresh button several times before a page will finally load. I'm on a 3meg DSL connection and all the other sites I visit are fine. This has been happening for a few days, but is really bad today, Sunday, 9/19/04.

Also - there's a strange anomoly at this site in that as you mark threads as "read", then click on a link in a message to an outside site, all the "read" marks are discarded and all new messages you previously marked as "read" are marked as "new" again. Is anyone else seeing this? This isn't new for me - it's always been this way here, but it's frustrating...

John

Figge
09-19-2004, 08:59 AM
hi john!

this happens to me too from time to time! i dunno whats causing it?? it could be that the 80386 SX16 server CPU needs a math-prossesor.

however i dont find it too irritating. i just wait a while and try again. it usually works.

boputnam
09-19-2004, 10:44 AM
Hey, John...

I've noticed the former, and have at those times pm'd John Nebel, who (typically) reports things are nominal at the helm - he attributes it to network traffic more local (for you and me... :( ). Only a few times has it related to clients somewhere initiating new servers and not installing all the MS service packs and getting whacked. They seem to learn, one-by-one.

I've not noticed the latter.

Maybe John will pitch-up here and open the curtain...

johnaec
09-19-2004, 11:10 AM
It's still really bad for me today, but only this site...I just had to refresh twice to get this far - 'big wait.

Joh

Alex Lancaster
09-19-2004, 11:14 AM
I have a 1 Meg cable connexion, and it is slow today.

John Nebel
09-19-2004, 02:13 PM
I don't see any problems. Since it works for me, it is not Apollo, but external. How about posting a traceroute (Unix) or tracert (Windows)? One from each of you would be good.

In doing traceroutes out from here to a few addresses in the log, I'm amazed at the far east browers to the web site.

There are 5000 log entries the last 2 hours so to go back and search for Alex IP address would take a while.

For vBulletin, the below is someone on cox.net.

The cox.net user looked at 12:16 MDT at:

68.227.231.169 - - [19/Sep/2004:12:16:54 -0600] "GET /vbulletin/images/prev.gif
HTTP/1.1" 304 - "http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&post
id=29311" "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Geck
o/20040804 Netscape/7.2"

and the traceroute to them is:

Apollo # traceroute 68.227.231.169
traceroute to ip68-227-231-169.ph.ph.cox.net (68.227.231.169): 1-30 hops, 38 byt
e packets
1 charon.csdco.com (198.80.11.2) 0.976 ms 0.0 ms 0.977 ms
2 157.130.160.61 (157.130.160.61) 2.92 ms 2.93 ms 2.93 ms
3 175.at-6-0-0.CL1.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.93.210) 2.93 ms (ttl=252!) 2.93 ms
(ttl=252!) 2.92 ms (ttl=252!)
4 0.so-0-0-0.TL1.SLT4.ALTER.NET (152.63.9.70) 12.6 ms (ttl=251!) 13.6 ms (tt
l=251!) 12.6 ms (ttl=251!)
5 0.so-4-1-0.TL1.SCL2.ALTER.NET (152.63.1.25) 28.3 ms (ttl=250!) 28.3 ms (tt
l=250!) 28.3 ms (ttl=250!)
6 0.so-3-0-0.XL1.SCL2.ALTER.NET (152.63.48.90) 28.3 ms (ttl=249!) 28.3 ms (t
tl=249!) 29.2 ms (ttl=249!)
7 0.so-5-0-0.BR1.SCL2.ALTER.NET (152.63.57.45) 28.3 ms (ttl=248!) 29.2 ms (t
tl=248!) 29.2 ms (ttl=248!)
8 204.255.173.42 (204.255.173.42) 33.2 ms (ttl=247!) 29.2 ms (ttl=247!) 28.
3 ms (ttl=247!)
9 so-1-2-0.bbr1.SanJose1.Level3.net (209.244.3.137) 30.2 ms (ttl=246!) 29.2
ms (ttl=246!) 29.2 ms (ttl=246!)
10 so-0-1-0.mp1.Phoenix1.Level3.net (64.159.1.121) 47.8 ms (ttl=245!) 46.8 ms
(ttl=245!) 47.8 ms (ttl=245!)
11 so-10-0.hsa1.Phoenix1.Level3.net (4.68.113.242) 46.8 ms 47.8 ms 47.8 ms
12 COX-ENTERPRI.hsa1.Level3.net (64.154.128.30) 48.8 ms 48.8 ms 48.8 ms
13 chnddsrc01-pos0201.rd.ph.cox.net (68.1.0.171) 47.8 ms 47.8 ms 48.8 ms
14 68.2.14.18 (68.2.14.18) 47.8 ms 48.8 ms 48.8 ms
15 ip68-2-0-65.ph.ph.cox.net (68.2.0.65) 49.8 ms 48.8 ms 49.8 ms
16 ip68-2-0-57.ph.ph.cox.net (68.2.0.57) 49.8 ms 50.7 ms 49.8 ms
17 mcdlcmtb00-gew1400.ph.ph.cox.net (68.2.11.66) 49.8 ms 50.7 ms 49.8 ms
18 ip68-227-231-169.ph.ph.cox.net (68.227.231.169) 62.5 ms 61.5 ms 61.5 ms

62ms is fine - that is round trip

Wardsweb
09-19-2004, 02:59 PM
You might try going into your user profile under options and turn "browse with cookies" off.

johnaec
09-19-2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Wardsweb
You might try going into your user profile under options and turn "browse with cookies" off. That's making no difference.

I've watched a little closer, and if I just wait, (no refresh), what happens is that about half a page/thread will load, then it just hangs. With a network monitor it shows 0kb transfer rate while it's hung. Then, after about 10 seconds, the rest of the thread will blast in, with a big spike in the transfer rate. I also did a tracert and got no significant delays.

It's like I get right to the site, but then once a request is made for data, it finds the data source right away, then receives no signal back for about 10 seconds. It's been doing this all day, but ONLY at this site. Other forums I visit with lots more threads and messages have no delays at all. But like I said - tracert shows no problems.

:confused:

John

Alex Lancaster
09-19-2004, 04:08 PM
Right now, it is nice and quick like before.

johnaec
09-19-2004, 04:12 PM
It's still hanging up a lot for me, but only this site. I've cleared all my Internet caches, cookies, etc. - there must be something flakey along the route somewhere...

John

John Nebel
09-19-2004, 05:18 PM
Taking Alex and John's posts together points to an Internet problem.

FYI: Apollo's cpu's average 90% idle and AH presents an insignificant load.

Lots of things can go wrong, so pls let me know when something seems broken.

John

PS

(1) vBulletin does use a few cookies but they are pretty light weight.

(2) I am wondering about the user running reports with MySQL - it is possible, I suppose to jam it some way, but that is not meant to happen.

Wardsweb
09-19-2004, 06:19 PM
I've never had a problem with this site. Think maybe it's a hub between you and this server?

johnaec
09-19-2004, 07:10 PM
It's very weird and I can narrow it down a little. I can get right to the site and right into the forums, but then, say there's a thread with the "new" marker on it, and I click to open that thread. That's where I see it open up and the first 2 or 3 messages pop right up, but then it hangs for about 10 seconds, with no activity at all. Then all of a sudden the reast of the messages in the thread pop up. So I read the new messages in that thread, then hit the forum title at the top to go back and read the new messages in the next thread. It hangs again for about 10 seconds, (going back to the top), then suddenly pops up. The same sequence hapens for any threads I look at.

It's only been really doing this bad today, but it's very consistent, and only at this site. If it continues, perhaps something has gotten corrupted in my user profile. If it hasn't changed in a day or two, maybe I'll try registering a new username to see if it makes a difference.

John

Wardsweb
09-19-2004, 08:03 PM
Sounds more like sever issues with mutliple connections not timing out soon enough. Most likely wouldn't hurt to run the repair/optimization script on the MySQL database.

Don you reading this?

John Nebel
09-19-2004, 09:22 PM
WW,

Pls read back through the thread. I did spend a couple of hours looking at this today.

Look at the I/O - the disks have a sustained capacity of around 50,000. Also look at the cpu idle.

Apollo # iostat dsk15 dsk16 5

....tty..........dsk15..........dsk16..........cpu
tin..tout....bps....tps.....bps....tps....us.ni.sy ..id
..0....42.....85......5......10.......1.....4..1.. 5.90



John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 08:30 AM
Well, if it's not happening to anyone else it either has to be something connected to me as a user or something between this area and the site, since I'm at the office today on a totally different computer, 20 miles from home, and different ISP, and it's still happening. Also, below is a tracert - it appears to timeout at csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET:

C:\WINNT\Profiles\schjr>tracert www.audioheritage.org

Tracing route to www.audioheritage.org [198.80.11.57]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 10 ms <10 ms <10 ms 206-176-240-81.vbbn.com [206.176.240.81]
2 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 206-176-240-94.vbbn.com [206.176.240.94]
3 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 192.168.5.1
4 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 206-176-235-209.vbbn.com [206.176.235.209]
5 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 206-176-239-129.vbbn.com [206.176.239.129]
6 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms atm1-0-1.core.router.nacio.novato.vbbn.net [206.176.232
7 <10 ms <10 ms 10 ms 138-58.84.64.master-link.com [64.84.58.138]
8 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms if0-0-0m.nov55c-75-002.nacio.com [64.84.0.195]
9 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfccaalhx1-gige2-8.wcg.net [64.200.225.105]
10 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfcca1wcx3-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.65]
11 * 20 ms 20 ms snfcca1wcx2-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.73]
12 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sntcca1wcx2-pos2-0-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.151.93]
13 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sntcca1lch2-pos4-1.wcg.net [64.200.240.222]
14 10 ms 10 ms 20 ms GigabitEthernet2-0.GW6.PAO1.ALTER.NET [157.130.30.141]
15 10 ms 10 ms 20 ms 0.so-0-2-0.xl2.pao1.alter.net [152.63.55.13]
16 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms 0.so-3-0-0.tl2.sac1.alter.net [152.63.54.10]
17 20 ms 30 ms 30 ms 0.so-7-0-0.tl2.slt4.alter.net [152.63.2.33]
18 60 ms 60 ms 60 ms 0.so-3-0-0.cl2.den4.alter.net [152.63.89.233]
19 60 ms 60 ms 61 ms 178.atm7-0.gw4.den4.alter.net [152.63.93.205]
20 60 ms 60 ms 70 ms csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET [157.130.160.62]
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 ^C

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 08:44 AM
John,

That looks normal. I've unblocked pings beyond Charon - line 20 in your message. Can you run the tracert again to see if there may be a problem between Charon and Apollo?

John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 09:01 AM
Still the same - I can barely use the site. I can't understand why I appear to be the only one affected:

C:\WINNT\Profiles\schjr>tracert www.audioheritage.org

Tracing route to www.audioheritage.org [198.80.11.57]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 206-176-240-81.vbbn.com [206.176.240.81]
2 <10 ms <10 ms 10 ms 206-176-240-94.vbbn.com [206.176.240.94]
3 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 192.168.5.1
4 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 206-176-235-209.vbbn.com [206.176.235.209]
5 <10 ms 10 ms 11 ms 206-176-239-129.vbbn.com [206.176.239.129]
6 10 ms <10 ms 10 ms atm1-0-1.core.router.nacio.novato.vbbn.net [206.176.232.1]
7 10 ms <10 ms 10 ms 138-58.84.64.master-link.com [64.84.58.138]
8 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms if0-0-0m.nov55c-75-002.nacio.com [64.84.0.195]
9 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfccaalhx1-gige2-8.wcg.net [64.200.225.105]
10 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfcca1wcx3-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.65]
11 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfcca1wcx2-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.73]
12 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sntcca1wcx2-pos2-0-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.151.93]
13 130 ms 241 ms 210 ms sntcca1lch2-pos4-1.wcg.net [64.200.240.222]
14 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms GigabitEthernet2-0.GW6.PAO1.ALTER.NET [157.130.30.141]
15 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms 0.so-0-2-0.xl2.pao1.alter.net [152.63.55.13]
16 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms 0.so-3-0-0.tl2.sac1.alter.net [152.63.54.10]
17 30 ms 20 ms 30 ms 0.so-7-0-0.tl2.slt4.alter.net [152.63.2.33]
18 60 ms 60 ms 61 ms 0.so-3-0-0.cl2.den4.alter.net [152.63.89.233]
19 60 ms 60 ms 60 ms 178.atm7-0.gw4.den4.alter.net [152.63.93.205]
20 61 ms 60 ms 60 ms csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET [157.130.160.62]
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * ^C

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 09:08 AM
It does seem like a routing problem. I can look in from AT&Ts network OK

Tracing the route to www.audioheritage.org (198.80.11.57)

1 white_dwarf.cbbtier3.att.net (12.0.1.1) [AS 7018] 0 msec 0 msec 4 msec
2 ar3.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.126.0.30) [AS 7018] 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
3 gbr1-a30s10.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.127.5.142) [AS 7018] 4 msec 4 msec 0 msec
4 tbr2-p013801.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.122.11.17) [AS 7018] 4 msec 4 msec 4 msec
5 ggr2-p390.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.123.3.62) [AS 7018] 8 msec 4 msec 0 msec
6 0.so-2-1-0.BR1.NYC4.ALTER.NET (204.255.168.1) [AS 701] 4 msec 4 msec 4 msec
7 0.so-6-0-0.XL2.NYC4.ALTER.NET (152.63.21.82) [AS 701] 4 msec 0 msec 4 msec
8 0.so-2-0-0.TL2.NYC8.ALTER.NET (152.63.0.185) [AS 701] 4 msec 4 msec 4 msec
9 0.so-7-1-0.TL2.STL3.ALTER.NET (152.63.0.206) [AS 701] 28 msec 28 msec 32 msec
10 0.so-4-0-0.CL2.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.123.222) [AS 701] 48 msec 48 msec 52 msec
11 178.ATM6-0.GW4.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.93.213) [AS 701] 48 msec 48 msec 48 msec
12 csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.160.62) [AS 701] 52 msec 52 msec 52 msec
13 www.audioheritage.org (198.80.11.57) [AS 3364] 52 msec 56 msec 52 msec


.. and Savis in San Jose

Tracing the route to www.audioheritage.org (198.80.11.57)

1 209.1.169.178 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
2 bpr2-so-7-0-0.SanJoseEquinix.savvis.net (208.173.55.25) 0 msec 12 msec 0 msec
3 POS3-3.BR1.SJC7.ALTER.NET (208.173.55.2) 4 msec
POS3-0.BR1.SJC7.ALTER.NET (208.173.55.46) 0 msec 0 msec
4 POS2-0.XR1.SJC7.ALTER.NET (152.63.56.162) [AS 701] 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
5 POS5-0.XR1.SJC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.52.133) [AS 701] 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
6 0.so-0-0-0.XL1.SJC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.55.114) [AS 701] 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
7 0.so-3-0-0.TL1.SAC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.53.250) [AS 701] 4 msec 4 msec 4 msec
8 0.so-4-0-0.TL1.SLT4.ALTER.NET (152.63.2.38) [AS 701] 16 msec 16 msec 20 msec
9 0.so-0-0-0.CL1.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.88.54) [AS 701] 64 msec 60 msec 64 msec
10 177.ATM7-0.GW4.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.93.209) [AS 701] 60 msec 60 msec 60 msec
11 csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.160.62) [AS 701] 64 msec 64 msec 64 msec
12 www.audioheritage.org (198.80.11.57) [AS 3364] 64 msec 64 msec 64 msec


.. but you can't

johnaec
09-20-2004, 09:15 AM
What's odd is I'm seeing the same thing from two completely different places and setups and networks - home and work. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about routing to help out more...I just know it started getting real bad for me yesterday morning - 'was basically OK before that...

John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 09:40 AM
Also, it doesn't appear to have anything to do with my user profile - I logged out, exited, came back in and just browsed the forums without being logged in - the delays are the same. And it's even slower than yesterday, though eventually it goes - 10-20 second delays for most stuff.

John

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 10:01 AM
John

Is the web site response the same for you as the forums?

If it were an Apache or MySQL issue I'd see it.

If it were a problem with your data in MySQL, your last test would show it.

J.

johnaec
09-20-2004, 10:18 AM
All areas of the site seem to be affected - ~15 seconds to get Library to open, ~15 seconds to get docs open, etc... Everything eventually opens, but usually after a very big delay. And as before - no other sites appear to be affected - just audioheritage.org.

John

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 10:38 AM
Please look at www.csdco.com and cmoku.com which are also on 198.80.11 and let me know.

J.

johnaec
09-20-2004, 10:49 AM
Tracing route to www.csdco.com [198.80.11.49]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <10 ms <10 ms 10 ms 206-176-240-81.vbbn.com [206.176.240.81]
2 <10 ms <10 ms 10 ms 206-176-240-94.vbbn.com [206.176.240.94]
3 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 192.168.5.1
4 <10 ms 11 ms <10 ms 206-176-235-209.vbbn.com [206.176.235.209]
5 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 206-176-239-129.vbbn.com [206.176.239.129]
6 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms atm1-0-1.core.router.nacio.novato.vbbn.net [206.176.232.1]
7 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 138-58.84.64.master-link.com [64.84.58.138]
8 10 ms <10 ms 10 ms if0-0-0m.nov55c-75-002.nacio.com [64.84.0.195]
9 * 20 ms 20 ms snfccaalhx1-gige2-8.wcg.net [64.200.225.105]
10 20 ms 20 ms 30 ms snfcca1wcx3-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.65]
11 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfcca1wcx2-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.73]
12 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sntcca1wcx2-pos2-0-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.151.93]
13 20 ms 20 ms 30 ms sntcca1lch2-pos4-1.wcg.net [64.200.240.222]
14 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms GigabitEthernet2-0.GW6.PAO1.ALTER.NET [157.130.30.141]
15 20 ms 10 ms 20 ms 0.so-0-2-0.xl2.pao1.alter.net [152.63.55.13]
16 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms 0.so-3-0-0.tl2.sac1.alter.net [152.63.54.10]
17 30 ms 30 ms 20 ms 0.so-7-0-0.tl2.slt4.alter.net [152.63.2.33]
18 60 ms 60 ms 70 ms 0.so-3-0-0.cl2.den4.alter.net [152.63.89.233]
19 60 ms 60 ms 70 ms 178.atm7-0.gw4.den4.alter.net [152.63.93.205]
20 60 ms 70 ms 70 ms csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET [157.130.160.62]
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * ^C



Tracing route to cmoku.com [198.80.11.86]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 206-176-240-81.vbbn.com [206.176.240.81]
2 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 206-176-240-94.vbbn.com [206.176.240.94]
3 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 192.168.5.1
4 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 206-176-235-209.vbbn.com [206.176.235.209]
5 10 ms <10 ms 10 ms 206-176-239-129.vbbn.com [206.176.239.129]
6 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms atm1-0-1.core.router.nacio.novato.vbbn.net [206.176.232.
7 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 138-58.84.64.master-link.com [64.84.58.138]
8 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms if0-0-0m.nov55c-75-002.nacio.com [64.84.0.195]
9 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfccaalhx1-gige2-8.wcg.net [64.200.225.105]
10 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfcca1wcx3-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.65]
11 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfcca1wcx2-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.73]
12 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sntcca1wcx2-pos2-0-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.151.93]
13 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sntcca1lch2-pos4-1.wcg.net [64.200.240.222]
14 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms GigabitEthernet2-0.GW6.PAO1.ALTER.NET [157.130.30.141]
15 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms 0.so-0-2-0.xl2.pao1.alter.net [152.63.55.13]
16 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms 0.so-3-0-0.tl2.scl2.alter.net [152.63.48.93]
17 20 ms 31 ms 20 ms 0.so-7-0-0.tl2.slt4.alter.net [152.63.2.33]
18 60 ms 60 ms 60 ms 0.so-3-0-0.cl2.den4.alter.net [152.63.89.233]
19 60 ms 60 ms 60 ms 178.atm6-0.gw4.den4.alter.net [152.63.93.213]
20 70 ms 231 ms 70 ms csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET [157.130.160.62]
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 11:53 AM
John,

Sorry for not being more clear - look at the web sites at those addresses to see if the response time is OK from your location.

www.csdco.com

www.cmoku.com

The pings should time out after Charon as you observed, however, not for www.audioheritage.org as I allowed that this morning.

FYI: Generally it is not a good idea to allow ICMP traffic into ones network and that is why it is blocked, except for the temporary provision for www.audioheritage.org this morning.

It is interesting that other external sites route-server.ip.att.net and route-server.exodus.net can ping www.audioheritage.org and you can't.

John

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 11:57 AM
FYI:

If it were ssl, I would suspect a certain IExplorer patch that causes
slowdowns for ssl on pages with prompts. If he has automatic IE patch
loading, it would be something to worry about, maybe later, whether
something new breaks accesses in certain conditions (frontpage?).

Ann

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 12:16 PM
Hi Bo,

... well I could reset BGP which would mean every border router on the Internet would get a new copy of the routes to us, but that would seem like hitting what appears to be a MS or CA problem with a sledge and would not be too nice.

J.

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Figge
it could be that the 80386 SX16 server CPU needs a math-prossesor.



OK, will add one.

johnaec
09-20-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by John Nebel
John,

Sorry for not being more clear - look at the web sites at those addresses to see if the response time is OK from your location.

www.csdco.com

www.cmoku.com

I can browse those two sites and related just fine - it's only this site that's a problem.

I thought you might be onto something re: updates, since I keep the computers I use current, but I went and tried a few other computers in the office that haven't been updated in the last month, and whether logged in or not, the all have the same problem with audioheritage.

Don't use a hammer if I'm the only one with a problem, (though it's really a drag one of my favorite sites has decided to spite me...) :)

John

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 01:19 PM
John,

Don't worry, we will figure out what it is.

I do want to verify one thing. Don't bother to post it, but please verify that you can't traceroute to 198.80.11.57

This does indicate something is not right and you should be able to verify this by connecting via telnet to route-server.ip.att.net and route-server.exodus.net and using the traceroute command there where it should work all the way through - a different result than from your PC.

John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 01:47 PM
C:\WINNT\Profiles\schjr>tracert 198.80.11.57

Tracing route to apollo.csdco.com [198.80.11.57]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <10 ms <10 ms 10 ms 206-176-240-81.vbbn.com [206.176.240.81]
2 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 206-176-240-94.vbbn.com [206.176.240.94]
3 <10 ms 10 ms <10 ms 192.168.5.1
4 <10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 206-176-235-209.vbbn.com [206.176.235.209]
5 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 206-176-239-129.vbbn.com [206.176.239.129]
6 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms atm1-0-1.core.router.nacio.novato.vbbn.net [206.176.232.1]
7 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 138-58.84.64.master-link.com [64.84.58.138]
8 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms if0-0-0m.nov55c-75-002.nacio.com [64.84.0.195]
9 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms snfccaalhx1-gige2-8.wcg.net [64.200.225.105]
10 20 ms 30 ms 30 ms snfcca1wcx3-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.65]
11 * 31 ms 30 ms snfcca1wcx2-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.199.73]
12 * 1242 ms 20 ms sntcca1wcx2-pos2-0-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.151.93]
13 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sntcca1lch2-pos4-1.wcg.net [64.200.240.222]
14 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms GigabitEthernet2-0.GW6.PAO1.ALTER.NET [157.130.30.141]
15 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms 0.so-0-2-0.xl2.pao1.alter.net [152.63.55.13]
16 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms 0.so-3-0-0.tl2.sac1.alter.net [152.63.54.10]
17 30 ms 20 ms 30 ms 0.so-7-0-0.tl2.slt4.alter.net [152.63.2.33]
18 * 60 ms 70 ms 0.so-3-0-0.cl2.den4.alter.net [152.63.89.233]
19 70 ms 60 ms 80 ms 178.atm7-0.gw4.den4.alter.net [152.63.93.205]
20 60 ms 70 ms 71 ms csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET [157.130.160.62]
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 ^C



Telnet traces work fine from those other servers:



route-server>tracer 198.80.11.57

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to www.audioheritage.org (198.80.11.57)

1 white_dwarf.cbbtier3.att.net (12.0.1.1) [AS 7018] 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
2 ar3.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.126.0.30) [AS 7018] 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
3 gbr1-a30s10.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.127.5.142) [AS 7018] 4 msec 4 msec 0 msec
4 tbr2-p013801.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.122.11.17) [AS 7018] 8 msec 4 msec 0 msec
5 ggr2-p390.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.123.3.62) [AS 7018] 4 msec 4 msec 4 msec
6 0.so-2-1-0.BR1.NYC4.ALTER.NET (204.255.168.1) [AS 701] 0 msec 4 msec 4 msec
7 0.so-6-0-0.XL2.NYC4.ALTER.NET (152.63.21.82) [AS 701] 4 msec 4 msec 0 msec
8 0.so-2-0-0.TL2.NYC8.ALTER.NET (152.63.0.185) [AS 701] 8 msec 4 msec 4 msec
9 0.so-7-1-0.TL2.STL3.ALTER.NET (152.63.0.206) [AS 701] 28 msec 28 msec 32 msec
10 0.so-4-0-0.CL2.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.123.222) [AS 701] 48 msec 52 msec 48 msec
11 178.ATM6-0.GW4.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.93.213) [AS 701] 48 msec 48 msec 48 msec
12 csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.160.62) [AS 701] 52 msec 52 msec 52 msec
13 www.audioheritage.org (198.80.11.57) [AS 3364] 52 msec 52 msec 52 msec

And:

route-server.savvis.net>tracer 198.80.11.57

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to www.audioheritage.org (198.80.11.57)

1 209.1.169.178 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
2 bpr2-so-7-0-0.SanJoseEquinix.savvis.net (208.173.55.25) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
3 POS3-0.BR1.SJC7.ALTER.NET (208.173.55.46) 0 msec
POS3-3.BR1.SJC7.ALTER.NET (208.173.55.2) 0 msec
POS3-0.BR1.SJC7.ALTER.NET (208.173.55.46) 0 msec
4 POS2-0.XR1.SJC7.ALTER.NET (152.63.56.162) [AS 701] 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
5 POS5-0.XR1.SJC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.52.133) [AS 701] 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
6 0.so-0-0-0.XL1.SJC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.55.114) [AS 701] 0 msec 4 msec 0 msec
7 0.so-3-0-0.TL1.SAC1.ALTER.NET (152.63.53.250) [AS 701] 8 msec 4 msec 4 msec
8 0.so-4-0-0.TL1.SLT4.ALTER.NET (152.63.2.38) [AS 701] 20 msec 16 msec 20 msec
9 0.so-0-0-0.CL1.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.88.54) [AS 701] 60 msec 60 msec 60 msec
10 177.ATM7-0.GW4.DEN4.ALTER.NET (152.63.93.209) [AS 701] 64 msec 60 msec 64 msec
11 csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET (157.130.160.62) [AS 701] 64 msec 276 msec 236 msec
12 www.audioheritage.org (198.80.11.57) [AS 3364] 64 msec 64 msec 68 msec

boputnam
09-20-2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by John Nebel
...please verify that you can't traceroute to 198.80.11.57 I too tried that in the wee hours today, and get "request timed out" starting with Line 1. Repeat result right now.

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 02:14 PM
John,

Can you send vbbn.com that last set of traceroutes and ask them to try it?

John

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by boputnam
I too tried that in the wee hours today, and get "request timed out" starting with Line 1. Repeat result right now.

You are not even getting to the first router which means that your ISP will not let you.

telnet route-views.oregon-ix.net
telnet route-server.cerf.net
telnet route-server.ip.att.net
telnet route-server.as5388.net
telnet route-server.cbbtier3.att.net
telnet route-server.exodus.net

are set up to test from - if a site is reachable from those locations its is a decent test. Audioheritage is reachable from those sites, but is not reachable from John's PC via traceroute.

John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by John Nebel
Can you send vbbn.com that last set of traceroutes and ask them to try it?I have them on the line right now and they can trace to it just fine, from multiple servers. *But* they're seeing the same huge page delays that I am when actually accesssing the site.

John

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 03:48 PM
I guess the question to ask is why it works elsewhere and you probably have.

It sounds like somewhere in the middle, a link is congested.

What did they say?

Have you tried a different browser?

John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 05:28 PM
OK - I'm at home again, and this time I'm trying Netscape instead of IE. It's better in many instances, (some things pop right up), but other things still have that 10-20 second delay. Here's the trace:

Tracing route to www.audioheritage.org [198.80.11.57]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms homeportal.gateway.2wire.net [172.16.0.1]
2 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms adsl-68-125-55-254.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.125.55.254]
3 10 ms 20 ms 21 ms dist2-vlan50.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.97.67]
4 20 ms 10 ms 20 ms bb1-g0-1.pltn13.pbi.net [67.116.251.113]
5 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms bb2-p12-0.pltn13.pbi.net [151.164.40.18]
6 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms bb1-p3-0.hrndva.sbcglobal.net [151.164.240.137]
7 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms 151.164.242.230
8 20 ms 20 ms 30 ms ex1-p9-0.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.191.201]
9 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sl-st20-sj-0-0.sprintlink.net [144.223.242.81]
10 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sl-bb25-sj-10-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.20.62]
11 20 ms 20 ms 30 ms sl-bb22-sj-12-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.3.209]
12 40 ms 40 ms 50 ms sl-bb23-tac-14-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.20.9]
13 41 ms 40 ms 50 ms sl-bb20-tac-5-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.17.173]
14 80 ms 80 ms 80 ms sl-bb21-che-4-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.19.246]
15 70 ms 80 ms 80 ms sl-gw11-che-10-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.15.138]
16 100 ms 90 ms 80 ms sl-csd-10-0.sprintlink.net [160.81.226.14]
17 80 ms 91 ms 80 ms apollo.csdco.com [198.80.11.57]


The strange one is that plain 151.164.242.230 - even though it shows OK, it always hangs there for a while when watching tracert realtime. But it's definitely better at home than at the office, though something's still hangint it up...

John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 05:41 PM
OK - this is weird. I fired up a different computer at home that doesn't have all the latest updates from MS and at least right now it's flying through everything, over wireless no less! I'll try narrowing it down and keep you posted.

John

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 05:56 PM
John,

"The strange one is that plain 151.164.242.230" That is a reverse DNS lookup which traceroute is attempting and is failing because there is no entry. It is not indicitative of a problem and it affects only traceroute. A -n switch will suppress those lookups.

What is really puzzling is that you can access cmoku.com which indicates there is not an Internet problem.

Then I would assume a server problem, however, I can see the sites pages immediately from home or the computer room and Ann can also access normally from multiple locations. That indicates there is an Internet problem and not a server problem.

Once we find the cause, it can be fixed.

Let me know if you notice anything else.

John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 06:27 PM
Well, the home computer that works fine does not have the two very latest MS critical patches installed, KB873374 and KB833989. Those were both installed on the other computers a day or so before this started. I'm on the phone with MS right now, (on hold), to see how to uninstall them to check if that's part of it. They don't show up under Uninstall Programs...

This computer just flies here, and I walk over to the other and it stalls...

I'll let you know what I find.

John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 07:03 PM
Uninstalling KB833989 made no difference, which is logical because that's an IE patch and Netscape also has the problem. MS is trying to find uninstall info for the GDI/Jpeg patch as I wait...

John

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 07:39 PM
John,

Sounds like you are on to something and this could end up helping others of us too.

Wine time here.

John

johnaec
09-20-2004, 08:15 PM
Well, I spent almost 45 minutes on the phone with MS pro-support to no real avail, but at least I've got a case open with them now, (no charge). KB873374 is somewhat problematic in that it installs various fixes based upon what you have installed, and it looks like I'll have to do an install of this on another similar computer and track the changes to see if that's what's causing it. That's the only thing different I can now find between computers that are fine, (the one I'm on now), and those that are hanging.

It actually looks like we're dealing with a couple issues here. One was the trace problems from the office earlier today, but something else here at home, since tracert is fine and one home computer is also fine.

More later...

John

John Nebel
09-20-2004, 10:05 PM
Right, two separate problems make debugging interesting.

J.

John Nebel
09-21-2004, 10:32 AM
John,

Any update on what the cure might be?

John

johnaec
09-21-2004, 10:44 AM
I sent you an email through the forum since I'm back at the office and it's so unusable from here. Tracert from the office is still timing out on the last leg. I's just as soon communicate via email about this since I can't hardly access the forums from the office.

I also discovered I DON'T have those MS updates on my office computer, so there goes that theory, at least as far as the office access goes. Again - it looks like I'm dealing with 2 different issues.

The odd thing is that this is the only site affected. I even frequent another forum that uses the same forum software and I have no problems...

John

John Nebel
09-21-2004, 11:29 AM
"Tracert from the office is still timing out on the last leg."

Right, but different peering in the two cases as traceroute should show.

If the site works from your home as you posted last night and you can traceroute from there

and

the site doesn't work from your work and you can't traceroute from there, it points to a congested link in the middle.

I sent you a PM.

John

johnaec
09-21-2004, 11:39 AM
The email message I sent was basically the same as what I posted. I'm contacting a consultant I work with for thorny routing issues to see if he has any ideas. It's the home issue that really has me stumped - I'll email anything new.

John

John Nebel
09-21-2004, 12:21 PM
John

Susie tested from Colorado Springs using Qwest DSL and everything was normal.

C:\>tracert audioheritage.org

Tracing route to audioheritage.org [198.80.11.57]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms 192.168.0.1
2 60 ms 80 ms 50 ms clsp-dsl-gw01.clsp.qwest.net [67.42.184.1]
3 60 ms 60 ms 50 ms 67.42.184.93
4 80 ms 60 ms 50 ms cos-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.152.33]
5 50 ms 80 ms 50 ms cos-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.152.2]
6 61 ms 70 ms 80 ms kcm-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.205.182]
7 80 ms 90 ms 81 ms dal-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.8.141]
8 80 ms 90 ms 80 ms dal-brdr-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.25.50]
9 90 ms 80 ms 90 ms POS5-2.BR2.DFW9.ALTER.NET [204.255.168.229]
10 70 ms 90 ms 80 ms 0.so-1-3-0.XL1.DFW9.ALTER.NET [152.63.99.210]
11 80 ms 90 ms 80 ms 0.so-0-0-0.TL1.DFW9.ALTER.NET [152.63.0.193]
12 91 ms 100 ms 100 ms 0.so-7-1-0.TL1.STL3.ALTER.NET [152.63.0.45]
13 120 ms 111 ms 120 ms 0.so-3-0-0.CL1.DEN4.ALTER.NET [152.63.89.158]
14 120 ms 111 ms 110 ms 177.ATM6-0.GW4.DEN4.ALTER.NET [152.63.93.201]
15 110 ms 120 ms 111 ms csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET [157.130.160.62]
16 120 ms 120 ms 121 ms apollo.csdco.com [198.80.11.57]

Trace complete.

Interesting path - via Kansas City, Ft Worth, and Salt Lake, then back to Denver.

Last night when your were at home and the AH site was working for you, there were 40,000 simultaneous connections to Apollo due to another site on the machine. Now it is down to a more normal 650. I doubt if the average idle time dropped below 80% - guess that FP co-processor helped - amazing what a 386 will do :)

Apollo # netstat -n | wc
663 3923 54654

John

Alex Lancaster
09-21-2004, 01:35 PM
Itīs acting up again, slow and will not "mark this forum read" on the first try. ??

John Nebel
09-21-2004, 01:47 PM
Alex,

It could be that it's your ISP. I haven't seen any problems with Apollo throughout this long thread and have spent a good number of hours loooking at obvious and obscure things as has Ann.

Do any of the sick or dead routers on

http://www.internettrafficreport.com/namerica.htm

affect you?

John

johnaec
09-21-2004, 03:10 PM
OK - I'm now at a different office, completely different area. Tracert is fine, but I'm still seeing the same kind of delays I do on my home system. Some things open right up, other things take 10-20 seconds. Again, this site only, whether logged on or not - all others fine.

John

John Nebel
09-21-2004, 03:24 PM
"OK - this is weird. I fired up a different computer at home that doesn't have all the latest updates from MS and at least right now it's flying through everything, over wireless no less! I'll try narrowing it down and keep you posted.

John"

Still haven't narrowed much down.

johnaec
09-21-2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by John Nebel
[BStill haven't narrowed much down. [/B]Nope - 'wider than ever. :( I'm testing from yet another computer right now, and same big delays here only. There must be something flaky on the routes from here to there somewhere...

John

John Nebel
09-21-2004, 04:27 PM
Later on when you get home, it will be interesting to see if the PC on wireless works.

Is it your own in-home wireless LAN, or a wide area one?

J.

PS.

I'll be in Colorado Springs later and able to look at the site via the winding route through Kansas, Texas, and Utah

johnaec
09-21-2004, 05:07 PM
OK, I'm back home. My home net consists of a first computer hardwired to a DSL modem. The modem also includes a wireless gateway which is how I connect with the other computer. For whatever reason the wireless has no problems at all. :confused:

The home connection is much better than it was even this morning - about 80% OK now. But some functions still really hang.

For instance, I'll read a set of threads in one forum just fine and mark it as "read". But then when I click on "Main Forums" at the top, it starts to load the page, hangs for 10-20 seconds, then flashes in. Then it will seem OK for say the first thread, but then when I open the next thread, it will again hang 10-20 seconds, then flash in.

'Doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it, though it does seem to be somewhat localized. It was definitely a big problem at both office locations today, but seems to be getting better at home.

I'll keep checking in...

John

John Nebel
09-21-2004, 08:41 PM
Hi John,

Greetings from snowy Colorado Springs via Kansas City, Ft. Worth, Salt Lake, Denver, and Boulder and then to Apollo and on to you when you see this via the route previously traced.

The AH response time is OK although this DSL is a little slower on every site I've looked at than the T1 at home typically is.

vBulletin doesn't flash up at once here but takes maybe 1.5 seconds. I counted one thousand one, but didn't get to one thousand two.

John

PS

We are using WNT, W2K, and Mac Os X with Netscape/Mozilla.

Don C
09-21-2004, 09:46 PM
I only live a few miles from John. The site responds quickly for me, either from work or home.

johnaec
09-22-2004, 08:23 AM
It seems to have reached a stalemate. One computer at home is fine, my regular one still has about 10% hangs, (hangs 10-20 seconds wheen clicking on links about 10% of the time) - I'll still follow the GDI/Jpeg MS patch issue on that one.

Tracert still fails on the last hop from the office, so we still have the issue here. I'm sure that's the reason for the big hangs from the office. This started over the weekend.

It's still odd to me that this site is the only one I'm having problems with, whether at the office or home - other forums using the same software with tons more traffic just fly! Something somewhere changed over the weekend - I just wish we could pin it down...

John

John Nebel
09-22-2004, 09:05 AM
John,

I promise that a lot changed over the weekend. That is the time when the network Nazis are gleefully at their best.

Or this may turn out to be a sad lesson about MS auto-update.

A further test: try pinging Apollo with the default settings, then 1000 packets, then 1000 1500 byte packets.

If you can't ping Apollo, things should not be working for you.

If you use ping with an invalid setting, it will tell you what all the switches are.

John

johnaec
09-22-2004, 09:20 AM
Well, I cancelled afte the first 80 or so went by:

Ping statistics for 198.80.11.57:
Packets: Sent = 81, Received = 76, Lost = 5 (6% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 60ms, Maximum = 170ms, Average = 57ms

Those losses were always about every 5 packets to start, then it stablized. Tracert always still fails on the last hop, but only from this office location.

John

johnaec
09-22-2004, 09:23 AM
OK, it totally times out with 1500 packet size - no replies at all.

John

John Nebel
09-22-2004, 10:31 AM
John,

Interesting. TCP/IP sends a group of packets and waits for an acknowledgment. If a packet is lost, then a retransmission timer must expire and the process restarted. A few lost packets can cause a surprising problem.

The 6% loss you observed is pretty high.

There is a figure agreed upon as a default maximum transmission unit for IP over ethernet and serial links, MTU, of 1500 bytes, hence the 1500 byte test.

There is a provision for using ICMP for negotiation of an MTU other than the default which can causes problems because network Nazis often block ICMP altogether and the negotiation can't take place. One router will use something other than the default and its neighbor will not like that. Hey, I told you and you ignored it. Smaller packets will pass OK.

Apollo # ifconfig alt0
alt0: flags=200c63<UP,BROADCAST,NOTRAILERS,RUNNING,MULTICAST,SIMPLEX, MULTINET>
inet 198.80.11.57 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 198.80.11.255 ipmtu 1500

Can you find what size packets break transmission?

I just realized a possibility... The routing between us is now asymmetric - this may have happened over the weekend - and the return packets may now be sent out from an FDDI interface with a 4352 byte MTU.

Apollo # ifconfig fta0
fta0: flags=8c63<UP,BROADCAST,NOTRAILERS,RUNNING,MULTICAST,SIMPLEX>
inet 204.181.152.50 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 204.181.152.255 ipmtu 4352

in which case your packets are now being zapped.

Another possibility is that someone decided to block ICMP who allowed it before. In any case Apollo's FDDI interface has always had a large MTU as FTA0 is generally used for internal communications and the large MTU is more efficient.

John





John

John Nebel
09-22-2004, 10:54 AM
OK, I changed fta0 to see what would happen...


Apollo # ifconfig fta0 ipmtu 1500
Apollo # ifconfig fta0
fta0: flags=8c63<UP,BROADCAST,NOTRAILERS,RUNNING,MULTICAST,SIMPLEX>
inet 204.181.152.50 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 204.181.152.255 ipmtu 1500

johnaec
09-22-2004, 11:01 AM
Can you find what size packets break transmission?32 bytes works, 64 bytes fail.

'Good thing I'm in IT at my company - the last few days all I've been doing is sitting in front of various computers, so I can pop in now and then to check. :)

BTW - I can't ping to ANY sites using 64 bytes, much less 1500 size - they all time out! But this is still the only site giving me problems.

John

John Nebel
09-22-2004, 11:09 AM
John,

IT companies may be the worst offenders in having brilliant, bad ideas about networking.

You tried the site after the MTU change?

John

johnaec
09-22-2004, 11:37 AM
'Still can't ping anything above 32 bytes. I'll get in touch with our ISP/WAN provider and run it by them.

One thing - both our offices connect to each other and the Internet via 2M high-speed wireless. We switched from T1 because the wireless scales to 8M if we want. I wonder if something in this scenario breaks packets down or something to keep them under 32 bytes??

It's still odd that this site is the only one giving me problems...

Edit: It's also odd that intermitently it acts completely normal for an instant or two. Like when I just posted this initial response here, it posted and appeared immediately, with no delay at all. Yet as soon as I hit "Edit" to add that fact, another 20 second delay...

John

John Nebel
09-22-2004, 11:39 AM
Pinging aside - did the response time change with the MTU size change? If it didn't, I'll set it back.

johnaec
09-22-2004, 11:43 AM
Response time is exactly the same 60-70ms.

Weird - this reply function popped right up - no delay. Yet doing exactly the same thing at other times give that ~20 second delay...

John

John Nebel
09-22-2004, 11:55 AM
John,

Was the change to wireless at work coincident with the problems?

Another question.. Suppose there is some graphic or graphics which the MS software du jour doesn't like. Is the reply page different in that regard?

John

johnaec
09-22-2004, 01:08 PM
The wireless has been in place several months, likewise, the problem is from every computer I try it on at the office, whether recently updated or not. Only navigating this website has problems, logged on or not - everything else is normal.:confused:

John

boputnam
09-22-2004, 06:09 PM
Hey, johnaec...

First, I'm sure glad this is you, and not me. I'm not functional in all this to even decipher the symptoms!!

Hey - have you created a dummy login and see if there's something quirky with your current one? Just a random thought...

johnaec
09-22-2004, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by boputnam
Hey - have you created a dummy login and see if there's something quirky with your current one? Just a random thought... I don't think that's it because if I come here while not logged in, just to browse around, I get the same delays. But I'll probably try that soon - what's to lose.

John N. - I can ping with 1000 byte packets just fine from home, so the situation at our office may be related to the fact I can't from there.

That just leaves the problem of why one home computer is fine and one acts just like at the office.

And the real question - why is audioheritage the only site where this happens?

curiouser and curiouser...

John

Wardsweb
09-22-2004, 07:41 PM
I'm getting the delays now at home and at my office for this site. Very strange :confused:

johnaec
09-22-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Wardsweb
I'm getting the delays now at home and at my office for this site. Very strange :confused: Ghost in the machine? :p Maybe he'll stay with YOU for a while... :duck:

John

Wardsweb
09-22-2004, 08:14 PM
In my best Pink Floyd, "Welcome - to - the Machine..."

And for the Anime guys "Ghost in the Shell"

johnaec
09-22-2004, 08:32 PM
Wardsweb - 'just curious - have you installed any of the MS patches that came out last week, or does your computer automatically download them? 'Trying to find a common link here...

John

boputnam
09-23-2004, 12:12 AM
Should we report what operating system and service pack we are running?

boputnam home and work: XP Pro, Service Pack 1 (I have held SP2 in the stable for over a week). Experiencing none of the issues described.

I wonder if some of the delay relates to XP SP2 - if that's installed. I watched its degredation to a co-worker's PC. Not pretty. Everything bogged in the interest of "increased security". Doh!

johnaec
09-23-2004, 12:18 AM
Nope - no XP SP2 anywhere - my home systems are even Windows 2000 SP4, as are some of the office systems, all of which have the delay, whether Win2K or WinXP. I'm more concerned with the patch MS put out last week for GDI/Jpeg security issues, and which installs on both Win2K and WinXP, depending on what other programs are installed - that's the only difference I can find between my home computers, one of which is fine and the other which has delays.

At the office, ALL computers, (I've checked at least 10-12 so far), experience the delays, and most don't even have the patches, so there's more involved... :biting:

John

boputnam
09-23-2004, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by johnaec
...so there's more involved... :biting: Well, maybe it's time we told you. You don't have any L100's, do you...? The Forum knows.

John Nebel
09-23-2004, 11:43 AM
[i]
At the office, ALL computers, (I've checked at least 10-12 so far), experience the delays, and most don't even have the patches, so there's more involved... :biting:

John [/B]

Yes, clearly routing is broken if you can't ping Apollo.

John

johnaec
09-23-2004, 12:07 PM
Today, I can ping apollo with 1000 bytes just fine from the office, but this site only is still almost unusable from the office. Example - I'll finally get to the Main Forums page, and from the moment I click on Forum Problems link to get here, it's 40 seconds before it finally opens up in this Forum Problems area! Similar delays when I click other links, yet some respond immediately. :confused:

Again - this is the only site affected - everywhere else on the Internet is fine...

John

johnaec
09-27-2004, 10:28 AM
Well, the gnomes must have been at work over the weekend! Today in the office, response at this site is back to normal, after being almost unusable all last week. This is even though tracert still times out:

14 10 ms 10 ms 20 ms GigabitEthernet2-0.GW6.PAO1.ALTER.NET [157.130.30.141]
15 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms 0.so-0-2-0.xl2.pao1.alter.net [152.63.55.13]
16 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms 0.so-3-0-0.tl2.sac1.alter.net [152.63.54.10]
17 30 ms 20 ms 30 ms 0.so-7-0-0.tl2.slt4.alter.net [152.63.2.33]
18 60 ms 60 ms 60 ms 0.so-3-0-0.cl2.den4.alter.net [152.63.89.233]
19 61 ms 60 ms 70 ms 178.atm7-0.gw4.den4.alter.net [152.63.93.205]
20 60 ms 70 ms 60 ms csd-gw.customer.ALTER.NET [157.130.160.62]
21 * * * Request timed out.

It seemed to get back to normal at home over the weekend also. 'Any idea what changed? It seems pretty much normal now... :)

John

John Nebel
09-27-2004, 11:17 AM
The the world-wide network .... were at work Saturday. See the sharp drop and recovery.

Peaks are normal, sharp drops are suspect.

Sprint
http://www.csdco.com/SPRINT-DS3-WEEK.PNG
UUnet
http://www.csdco.com/uunet-WEEK.PNG

johnaec
09-27-2004, 07:47 PM
Well, I spoke too soon. It was really flying this morning, both from home and the office, but this afternoon, it was virtually dead in its tracks again, both from the office and home, on two completely different networks. Tracert from home is *basically* OK, but drags at the end - it's still 20-40 seconds to do almost anything here:

Tracing route to www.audioheritage.org [198.80.11.57]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 10 ms <10 ms <10 ms homeportal.gateway.2wire.net [172.16.0.1]
2 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms adsl-68-127-209-254.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.127.209.254]
3 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms dist2-vlan60.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.97.131]
4 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms bb1-g1-1.pltn13.pbi.net [67.116.251.193]
5 10 ms 20 ms 20 ms bb2-p14-0.pltn13.pbi.net [151.164.40.22]
6 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms bb1-p3-0.hrndva.sbcglobal.net [151.164.240.137]
7 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms ex2-p14-0.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.242.230]
8 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms ex1-p9-0.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.191.201]
9 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms sl-st20-sj-0-0.sprintlink.net [144.223.242.81]
10 20 ms 20 ms 30 ms sl-bb25-sj-10-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.20.62]
11 20 ms 20 ms 30 ms sl-bb23-sj-15-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.3.249]
12 40 ms 50 ms 40 ms sl-bb21-tac-13-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.20.105]
13 80 ms 81 ms 80 ms sl-bb20-che-5-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.18.9]
14 80 ms 80 ms 80 ms sl-gw11-che-9-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.15.150]
15 170 ms 190 ms 211 ms sl-csd-10-0.sprintlink.net [160.81.226.14]
16 210 ms 210 ms 221 ms apollo.csdco.com [198.80.11.57]

Trace complete.

Nothing changed on my end from when it worked this morning to when it stopped again. I just wish I know why this is the *only* site affected... :confused:

Edit: Wouldn't you know it - the minute I post this, it seems normal again... :banghead:

John

John Nebel
09-27-2004, 09:36 PM
Explainable this time. :)

Power failure - BGP was messed up and reset just before 2000 MDT

johnaec
09-28-2004, 09:18 AM
OK - it's back to normal at the office today, Tuesday...('crosses fingers...).

John