L36 VS. 4313, would I be maknig a step up to move to 4313 w/ replaced tweeters? 035Ti

[Fasterdamnit]

Good day, all.

I have a pair of L36's that after new polypropylene caps in the crossover (teflon bypass caps for the tweeter and mid) and fresh foam on the woofers, sound very good. I listen primarily to vinyl and find I prefer more detail and clarity as my system evolves. The L36's were a very lucky Goodwill find. They have become my primary speakers even though the bass rolls off sooner than other speakers in the inventory. They just do everything else with more detail and clarity. Small room, on stands, only 6 feet from listening position.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd478/Fasterdamnit/Decade36b.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd478/Fasterdamnit/JBLL36003.jpg

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd478/Fasterdamnit/L36posts.jpg

I have come across a pair of well loved 4313's (not B) that have had the foam replaced on the woofers and the tweeters replaced with what looks like the 035Ti's out of the L100T. The 066's are long gone as are the grills. I know the tech sheet for my L36's calls for them as a last resort replacement. Not sure for the 4313's. The cabinet is a bit smaller than the L36's. I understand the drivers in the monitors are more robust than in the Century line.

So-
1. Is the tweeter a viable replacement or is it too far from the 066 to work well with the 4313 crossover?
2. If I can work a deal for a low price, do you think I am moving up the food chain in an appreciable way from the L36's?


Any and all suggestions welcomed!

TIA,
Jim

[Fasterdamnit]

Any input? Found a bunch of 4313 posts thru a google search and thought this was the place for serious JBL info. :confused:

[Fasterdamnit]

Thanks for the reply. I have never enjoyed horns. I find them to be physically uncomfortable.

Back to subject-
Is the 035Ti tweeter an acceptable replacement for the 066 in when used in the 4313?

[DavidF]

Thanks for the reply. I have never enjoyed horns. I find them to be physically uncomfortable.

Back to subject-
Is the 035Ti tweeter an acceptable replacement for the 066 in when used in the 4313?

Perhaps someone with someone with experience installing the 035 will chime in. A lack of response may be that you are the first one to be faced with this combindation of drivers.

[BMWCCA]

I have never enjoyed horns. I find them to be physically uncomfortable.

You're not supposed to stick them in your ears! ;)

[Audiobeer]

It is acceptable and in my humble opinion this setup in a 4313 still out performs a L-36. Have and enjoy both. That is just my opinion.

[berf]

The 035's may not be per the original spec as designed but they're a perfectly good driver. The crossover point is 4k so they're not being used out of the design range. If the L36's were typical Goodwill dirt cheap and your wallet and living arrangements can tolerate multiple speakers for a period of time the 4313's are worth owning if they're $250-$300. One is from the cone tweeter era and the other has been brought into the titanium era against it's wishes. Doing an A/B over the course of a month will show you the strengths and weaknesses of each model. If the lack of 4313 grilles doesn't bother, you won't lose money if you want to move on. Chasing down new grilles and spending more money on the 4313's may not add anything to their value. The 4313 and L110 use the alnico LE10 woof, the 4313b and L110a use variants based on ferrite magnets. There seems to be a consensus that the ferrite woofs are one hell of a nice 10" driver while the alnico has it's issues. There is not a simple upgrade path between the two so you tend to stay with what you get. Both speakers can benefit from crossover tweaks and modernizing to make them the best they can be. The 4313's even with the 035's are more worthy of the attention.

[Fasterdamnit]

Perhaps someone with someone with experience installing the 035 will chime in. A lack of response may be that you are the first one to be faced with this combindation of drivers.

Thanks, David. I hope someone has the technical sheet for them. I could not find one. Former Suisun City resident of 19 years, myself.


You're not supposed to stick them in your ears! ;)

Ah Ha! So it is a placement issue. Hmmm.....:hmm:


It is acceptable and in my humble opinion this setpo in a 4313 still out performs a L-36. Have and enjoy both. That is just my opinion.

Thanks. That is the kind of first hand experience I was looking for. :yes:


The 035's may not be per the original spec as designed but they're a perfectly good driver. The crossover point is 4k so they're not being used out of the design range. If the L36's were typical Goodwill dirt cheap and your wallet and living arrangements can tolerate multiple speakers for a period of time the 4313's are worth owning if they're $250-$300. One is from the cone tweeter era and the other has been brought into the titanium era against it's wishes. Doing an A/B over the course of a month will show you the strengths and weaknesses of each model. If the lack of 4313 grilles doesn't bother, you won't lose money if you want to move on. Chasing down new grilles and spending more money on the 4313's may not add anything to their value. The 4313 and L110 use the alnico LE10 woof, the 4313b and L110a use variants based on ferrite magnets. There seems to be a consensus that the ferrite woofs are one hell of a nice 10" driver while the alnico has it's issues. There is not a simple upgrade path between the two so you tend to stay with what you get. Both speakers can benefit from crossover tweaks and modernizing to make them the best they can be. The 4313's even with the 035's are more worthy of the attention.

Outstanding info, much appreciated! I will see if they are still available. I know a few folks have looked at them and passed due to the tweeter swap. Are there posts here on L36 crossover improvements? I love hot-rodding audio gear. I am surprised to hear that the alnico driver is not favored over the ferrite. Good to know.

Thanks for all the help, folks!

[SEAWOLF97]

Are there posts here on L36 crossover improvements?

Not sure, but regarding the L36 network ...

I've gone thru lots of JBL's, including at least 3 pairs of L36's & 3-4 L-26...in that size box, I preferred the very similar L-26 . Same drivers, but in a 2 way config ....now logically the L-36 shud be better, but my ears did not confirm that ...always suspected that the issue was with the L-36 network.

Giskard had mentioned that the entire "Decade" series was built to a certain price point and was successful in that way, but they were lesser drivers than the pro series equivalents.

the funny part is that I loved the 4410 (even over the bigger 4412) but did not care for virtually the same drivers when used in the L80T ...suspecting the network again. :crying:

the 035Ti is a nice HF , but in the L80T there were no "on board" controls/pots and I found the HF to be somewhat shrill , but not when in the 4410 where adjustments were available.

[4313B]

the funny part is that I loved the 4410 (even over the bigger 4412) but did not care for virtually the same drivers when used in the L80T ...suspecting the network again. :crying:You and me both. The network differences were key.
the 035Ti is a nice HF , but in the L80T there were no "on board" controls/pots and I found the HF to be somewhat shrill , but not when in the 4410 where adjustments were available.The titanium domes have a totally different crest factor and aren't mere bolt-ins. The use of an L-Pad might help mitigate any problems.

I had thought of modifying the 4313 network years ago to better accomodate the 035Ti and 044Ti but never got around to it. I ended up going with an N120Ti network instead. That could probably have been tweaked a bit for the LE10H in place of the 128H but I never got around to that either. :D

[berf]

I have a pair of L36's that after new polypropylene caps in the crossover (teflon bypass caps for the tweeter and mid) and fresh foam on the woofers, sound very good

Are there posts here on L36 crossover improvements?

That's about as far as you can go while retaining the original component values. The lack of bypass capacitors was the most archaic part of the L36 network design.
If this is your first foray into the world of JBL you'll find further rewards if you move up into the newer and more desired models.

[Fasterdamnit]

Thanks again for all the input. Looks like the seller is not interested in haggling and I do not think they are worth the price not being stock. To date, I have preferred textile dome tweeters. I will keep an eye out for newer models. I had some L5's but my Magnavox tube amp that was my primary at the time was not enough to drive them. I sold them to a friend for what I had in them and he is thrilled.

[berf]

The 4313 and L110 use the alnico LE10 woof

Oops, they both used the LE111A.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?9854-JBL-L110-L96-4313B

[BMWCCA]

the funny part is that I loved the 4410 (even over the bigger 4412) but did not care for virtually the same drivers when used in the L80T ...suspecting the network again. :crying:

the 035Ti is a nice HF , but in the L80T there were no "on board" controls/pots and I found the HF to be somewhat shrill , but not when in the 4410 where adjustments were available.

I, too, agree. When a pair of L80Ts in need of surrounds presented themselves to me while picking up an exceedingly rare BMW motorcycle in North Carolina a while back, I handed the guy the fifty-bucks I had on me and tossed them in the truck, too. Another pair surfaced locally right after but they had one factory replacement 127H-1 and the other was a factory-recone. I've swapped T3 crossovers into them now ($13/pair) and I love the change. I often A-B them with my factory re-coned L96s just to compare and the L80T/3 is almost as nice.

[Malefoda]

I had thought of modifying the 4313 network years ago to better accomodate the 035Ti and 044Ti but never got around to it. I ended up going with an N120Ti network instead. That could probably have been tweaked a bit for the LE10H in place of the 128H but I never got around to that either. :D

Hi there,
anyone on this? 4313B? Both cuts at 4kHz, but phase and xo components are notre the same. Are the 120Ti's resistors thé same as 3113B's L-pad ?
As I'm building a cc network I'm willing to get the best of my titanized 4313B. Right now set the 35TIA's pad at -1dB.

Thanks !

[Malefoda]

Guys,
found the L166's network. 2nd order high-pass for the 066 here again. With the same values of cap and coil, one cut at 4kHz, the other 6kHz... what am I missing here?