PDA

View Full Version : New or old ?



paragon
09-17-2004, 12:46 PM
Hello to all,

What do you think about the new JBL`s compared
to the old ones (Drivers, Enclosure Design, Quality....) ??
I doen`t like the new cheap ones. This is not the quality
the older (till early 90`s) speakers had.
Compare an LE 10A with a new 10 inch driver for example.

Regards
Eckhard

paragon
09-18-2004, 07:46 AM
Mmmmm !,

Mmmmm ?? Mmmmmm ???
Nobody ? What have i done ?
Mmmmm !?

Regards
Eckhard

Maron Horonzakz
09-18-2004, 08:12 AM
Shure they do .....10" 2251 8" 2250 14" 2254 15" 2255 12" 252

JohnK
09-18-2004, 09:45 PM
Compare the quality of a 80's L40 with the 60's L77. The L40 is absolute junk.

Zilch
09-18-2004, 11:24 PM
And what is that handsome speaker Eckhard now has in his avatar?

[We want details....] ;)

paragon
09-19-2004, 02:42 AM
John, that`s what i want to read.
The home speakers they build now are not the same they
build before.

Zilch, this is an L 90, only sold in Europe :D, very good speaker,
very popular.
Let me try to explain what they wrote in their HiFi magazines :

Looks like a monitor and sounds so, loud without distotion and
with precesion (?).
Macus Millers E-Bass exploded in the listening room.
Very "dry" drums give the kick you want.
Components of the highest quality.
Not only the 12 inch low, also the mid and high are from the best.
Topclass, Winner in "Audio".

Some specifications :
Mirror imaged pair
Frequency range 40 Hz - 30 kHz (- 6 dB)
Tuning 35 Hz
Sensitivity 90 dB/ 1m/ 2,83V
Impedance 4 Ohms
Drivers LE 120H, 705H, 050TI
Crossovers 400 Hz/ 2.5 kHz
Dimensions (HxWxD) 400x600x340
Weight 27 kgs

Best Regards
Eckhkard

4313B
09-19-2004, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by paragon
Hello to all,

What do you think about the new JBL`s compared
to the old ones (Drivers, Enclosure Design, Quality....) ??
I doen`t like the new cheap ones. This is not the quality
the older (till early 90`s) speakers had.
Compare an LE 10A with a new 10 inch driver for example.

Regards
Eckhard :coolness: I'll be blunt. The latest crop of transducers such as the 1500AL or 2242H are thoroughly capable of carrying the JBL logo. There aren't cheap, in any sense of the word.

The cheaper stuff always has to make a price point. Remember when the "cheap" L16, L26 and L36 Decade series came out? For those of us used to handling LE8T's and LE10A's, the little 116A's and 125A's were quite a shock let me assure you! Quite a shock indeed! These days people don't think all that bad about the 125A/127A. Well, back then the 125A/127A was considered "total junk" compared to the LE series. Times change.

Maron Horonzakz
09-19-2004, 08:30 AM
And the better consumer line is going to Japan. If JBL wont offer that line....Then how can we support JBL ? We just cant keep buying stage & cinema speakers.

Don C
09-19-2004, 09:10 AM
I had L-40s and loved them. You couldn't tell that the drivers were lighter than the older LE-10s unless you took the speakers apart. When you did, you were still getting a cast aluminum woofer basket, and the driver could still be reconed by any JBL repair shop. The cabinet was still covered with real walnut veneer.
Compare that to more recent JBLs, the S-38 for example would be a similar speaker. The S-38 had stamped frame drivers, plastic grille frame and baffle trim, and fake vinyl covering.
But it does sound good, probably better than an L-40.

paragon
09-19-2004, 09:39 AM
Yes Giscard, Maron and Don, that`s what i mean.
Where are the highclass drivers they build 25 years ago !
Is that James want to sell, if he`s living today ?
Is that the name JBL stands for ? (?)
What do you think about TIK Series and the new Monitors ?

Best Regards
Eckhard

4313B
09-19-2004, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Don C
I had L-40s and loved them. You couldn't tell that the drivers were lighter than the older LE-10s unless you took the speakers apart. When you did, you were still getting a cast aluminum woofer basket, and the driver could still be reconed by any JBL repair shop. The cabinet was still covered with real walnut veneer.
Compare that to more recent JBLs, the S-38 for example would be a similar speaker. The S-38 had stamped frame drivers, plastic grille frame and baffle trim, and fake vinyl covering.
But it does sound good, probably better than an L-40. Agreed! When the 4301/L19 came out we really liked the little things. We thought they were great! The 116 wasn't an LE8 by any stretch but the system as a whole sounded quite nice.

It is very interesting to follow the various lines from then till now and see how and what JBL had to do to maintain price points while still producing a viable product.

In 1981 one could spend something like $3,100 for two L212 side panels and two B212 subwoofers. Today one can spend something like $6,200 for two PT800's and two PS1400's AND get a system that will spank the 1981 system without breaking a sweat.

4313B
09-19-2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by paragon
Yes Giscard, Maron and Don, that`s what i mean.
Where are the highclass drivers they build 25 years ago !
Hopefully in the dump by now. It's time to buy drivers like the 1500AL and the 2242H, systems like the K2-S9800 or the LSR6332. :p

John
09-19-2004, 10:47 AM
I would like to say the pair of L40,s i picked up for $80.00 sounded not bad at all. They had refoamed woofers and cabinets were in very clean condition,how could i turn down a price like that. Gave them to my son with one warning,do not try to reach concert sound level. He loves them.:D

johnaec
09-19-2004, 11:07 AM
Is under $50 a good price for some L46's in good condition?

John

4313B
09-19-2004, 11:13 AM
Yeah, I think so.

paragon
09-19-2004, 11:21 AM
Yes Giskard, the 1500 AL is one that we can compare to the
old before 80`s.
Just hold it and feel the massive.... can`t explain, sorry !!
But you know what i mean.
John, it`s ok, i doen`t want to drop down all cheap speakers
they made.
But you understand, where is the spirit...
Just bought this old LE 10A`s and look, this shrunk laquer(?)
on the magnet pot and the hard white cone, the gold foilcal(?),
the flygrid(?), know what i mean ??
That`s a (cheap) driver.
Anybody knows about TIK ??
Doen`t know about PT800 and PS1400, Giskard.
Like the L90 ?
Same drivers as TI 5000.

Best regards
Eckhard

Earl K
09-19-2004, 12:05 PM
Hi paragon ( others )


Where are the highclass drivers they build 25 years ago !
Well, start by looking at the Harman USA "Home Audio" Site (http://www.jbl.com/home/product_support/default.asp?ProdId=) in the S3100 area. (http://www.jbl.com/home/product_support/jblparts.asp?prodId=S3100L) Then look at the parts available for the 4344mkII (http://www.jbl.com/home/product_support/jblparts.asp?prodId=4344MKIIL) . The listed 275nd compression driver is a K2 inspired part, also found in the K2 S5500 . Look at what technology is available from the L7 parts list (http://www.jbl.com/home/product_support/jblparts.asp?prodId=L7BLKL) . Once "Ti" Dome gives us a profile of what's under the hood of his favourite grouping of "mostly ignored" products, maybe we'll see that the le120h-1 ( if it has a 1/2" top plate ) is another K2 product in disguise ( perhaps it's a le125s without the "bucking" magnet ? ) . The K2 S9500, 475nd compression driver is available in a "Pro" version - it's the 2450SL .

I have some of these ME150H , 15" woofers . Those le120h-1 woofers are likely my next major JBL purchase for a 12" based MTM project . These ME150H(s) are presently available from Harmon (USA) at a list price of @ 420.00 . The le120h-1 is only @ $200.00. A motivated retailer would sell for less .

These 15" woofers are arguably, JBLs' second generation removed, SOTA hifi 15" . They sport a massive 23lb magnetic assembly, the same size of the 2242 18". The ME150 has an @ 150 (mms) gram aquaplassed cone - quite similar in moving mass to this forums' favourite 15" - the 2235H. The extra 4.5 lbs of magnet over the 2235, when energizing a 1/2" deep gap does make quite a difference in overall cone responsiveness . Fs is around 27 hz - similar to the 1500AL . I'd never trade these ME150s for 2235 woofers ( well , I don't need to since I own both types ) .

So,

Is that James want to sell, if he`s living today ? I'd say yes ! I'd also say the prices listed on the Harmon site are quite reasonable for such great technology .

<. Earl K

Titanium Dome
09-19-2004, 03:05 PM
I think the 8" mid-bass driver in the L7 is very good, but it's an absolute wimp next to the 8" woofers in the SVA1800, which is accounted for in the $80 price premium on the SVA1800 8 incher. When FedEx delivered one of my SVA1800s in the condition you see in the attached picture, I thought maybe an L7 driver would be a good substitute for a damaged woofer. Once I compared them, I knew there was no way.

I know some folks aren't big metal fans, but you can guess by my handle, I'm keen on well designed metals. The Performance Series is all metal drivers except for the LE14H-3 sub. Well designed pure titianium tweeters with EOS are fairly common now, but still impress me as a milestone in JBL driver design.

The titanium 4" mid and titanium alloy 8" woofer in the PT800 are well-executed inverted domes, and a little investigation leads one to conclude they are fairly unique--at least until one looks at the mid range driver on the $17k Revel Ultima Salon. Is it coincidence that the Salons and Performance Series are ownd by Harman and built at the same Northridge facility?

Well, no, it's not a coincidence of course, but it does allow for pointless speculative questions by dorks like me. :spin:

Hofmannhp
09-19-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Earl K

<. Earl K


a little off topic....sorry

Hi Earl...nice to see you back..... long "time out"

HP

Earl K
09-19-2004, 04:52 PM
Hi HP

Thanks !

- say ,,, paragon,,, any chance of you taking ( and posting here ) a picture of that le120 woofer that's in your great good-looking L90(s)? A "from the side" profile of the magnet assembly would be nice.

<. Earl K

Tom Loizeaux
09-19-2004, 06:35 PM
I only buy JBL Pro stuff...old and new! The old stuff is great and the new stuff handles lots of power and is great too.
Yeah, the new consumer stuff is cheaply made, but that's what the general public wants. .. "looks good, sounds OK, has a pedigree name". JBL know this.
The problem occurs when a consumer wants real long-term, high quality performance. JBL is not really building for that market. So JBL Pro is the answer most of us have gone to.
Just my $.02.

Tom

4313B
09-20-2004, 07:51 AM
"The problem occurs when a consumer wants real long-term, high quality performance. JBL is not really building for that market."

Huh? I'm confused...

K2 Series (http://www.jbl.com/home/products/series.asp?SerId=K2)

Performance Series (http://www.jbl.com/home/products/series.asp?SerId=PER)

Synthesis (http://www.jblsynthesis.com/)

*****

"Just my $.02"

Understood. But it's going to take a whole heck of a lot more than two cents to stay in the game with JBL. :p

jackz4000
09-20-2004, 07:51 AM
I gotta agree with Tom L. And I am on the low end of the JBL food chain, aka: my current interest is bookshelfs. There are so many speaker companies today that one gets dizzy. One can buy pro JBL's with confidence, whether 30 years old or made this year. Consumer stuff today is a different story, but I have heard good recent consumer JBL's. Recently, a pair of SP412's?, I think which were consumer speakers w/ a sub. I am sure there are other very good consumer JBL's at the high end which perform very well, although not in my budget.

Technology and improved design can make for a better speaker today. And what one selects is dependant on their preferences, room acoustic, equipment and budget and the acuity of their hearing.

Myself, I listen to classical/jazz/some rock and usually at low to moderate volumes. And I like an accurate quality sound at low levles. Occasionally, I blast it loud. Old or new, JBL makes a great product. And some of their new low end price point stuff does not measure up to their better stuff....thats biz.

The older pro stuff is a great bang for the buck. Cheers,

4313B
09-20-2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by jackz4000
The older pro stuff is a great bang for the buck.Yeah, it really is! And you have to love JBL for still supporting alot of it. :yes:

Figge
09-20-2004, 08:11 AM
Huh? I'm confused... K2 series...

well who the hell wants to spend that kinda money on a pair of speakers? totally outreagous!


Yeah, it really is! And you have to love JBL for still supporting alot of it.

:yes:

4313B
09-20-2004, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by Figge
well who the hell wants to spend that kinda money one a pair of speakers? totally outreagous!Something tells me the kind of people that spend that kind of money probably won't be found on this forum. :p

jackz4000
09-20-2004, 08:19 AM
Its much appreciated Giskard. There must be 10,000 speaker companies out there with product and alot of it is over-hyped-over- priced-price-point- junk. And unsupported. I think one can buy most JBL speakers with confidence as long as one is buying the right speaker for the desired application.

In the 70's I worked in alot of high-end recording studios, everyday. Whether it was NY, LA or SF, JBL's were always the monitors---they were and are the standard for making "money music". For making great music. Think the model then was the 4320, or something like that, big things that sounded superb, 15" woofer and a lensed horn. Lotta hits were made on those speakers all across the USA back then.

Hearing is a subjective thing, but most with normal hearing do know high quality when they hear it and in that department I find JBL to be the best. With some of the older stuff having a magic all it's own.

Figge
09-20-2004, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
Something tells me the kind of people that spend that kind of money probably won't be found on this forum. :p


ok..i see what u mean:)

Maron Horonzakz
09-20-2004, 08:44 AM
Well ......I,d spend that kind of money on JBL... And i still would hang out on this great forum with you slobs.

Figge
09-20-2004, 08:47 AM
well i would probably buy 15-20 pairs of 4430:s and a bunch of amp-racks instead. probably would squish those K-2:s

paragon
09-20-2004, 09:45 AM
Interesting,

In the 80`s and earlier JBL makes no difference between Consumer HiFi and Professional or monitoring, because they had the same components on all.
Where is the difference between HiFi and professional use ?
I would take an old (big) 43xx monitor, not a new TIK or whatever
JBL sells now in her highprice region.
I would take an old LE 15A, not a pair of new 10 inch neodym
drivers.
But this is not the time for big speakers. They are old dinosaurs (?) only a few crazy people love.
Look at professional (PA), where are all the big hornloaded speakers ? They doen`t need them anymore, because they
have thousands of thousands watts in small enclosures.
But some still use this old ones and love her sounds.

Regards
Eckhard

Figge
09-20-2004, 10:20 AM
does any one have the last listing price for the 4430:s?and heck 35:s too?

last i have seen was around 1985.