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ramin_audio
01-16-2012, 02:57 PM
Hello Friends,

I have just brought home a pair of JBL L100T's. The speakers are generally in good condition. I want to restore them completely and upgrade the crossover. I need some help here.

1- The surrounds in the woofers are gone! Can I re-foam them myself?
(Where can I buy the kit for it?)

2- The cone in one of them is very slightly out of shape as you can see in this photo:

54472

Is there a problem at all?

3- How can I get a new crossover for these?

4- The cabinets seem to be solid and it is heavy. Can a good bracing make any improvement?

5- The veneer is dirty. How can I clean it?

I really appreciate your replies to any of these questions.

Regards,
Ram

hjames
01-16-2012, 03:15 PM
I have redone the surrounds on L100T speakers before - go to ebay and look up vendor LoonyTunes2001 -
http://stores.ebay.com/looneytune2001 - tell him what you need and he should be able to get you the right parts in short order.

A number of us have used his services and he makes a good kit to redo your Surrounds with.

The parts are fairly inexpensive so I'd take a shot at redoing the dead foams and not worry too much about the creased cone.

But - you are in Canada - its cold weather - and the glue used to redo foams does not do well when it freezes!
You may need to wait for warmer weather.

I highly recommend you search for Steve Vollmer's thread on restoring a pair of L100T with his son in Fall 2011 - lots of good stuff there!

berf
01-16-2012, 05:57 PM
Don't worry about the crease in the cone, this actually is something that does not affect the sound. Just redo the surrounds and enjoy them for six months before you think about the crossovers. Learn about and work with positioning these in your room. If you have them against the wall or stuck in the corners it will affect the presentation far more than any crossover mods.

Go slow and be careful with the veneer. This was the beginning of the cheapening of the veneer on JBL's part. It's thinner than you wish it was and can be damaged through aggressive cleaning or sanding. There are many posts on cleaning, sanding, and re-oiling. Search the posts through Google and you'l find lots of excellent information.

ramin_audio
01-16-2012, 09:10 PM
Thanks for the replies. I will refoam them first.

My JBL 4312A has the same tweeter and very similar midrange driver. The 2213H woofer is a fantastic woofer. I have given them to Frank Fabian (@ SpeakerShop) and he has made a new crossover for them and braced the cabinets... I believe, they are the best damn speaker in their own size (and frequency range) now -- very different than their original sound (which was boomy in bass with harsh mid and high!). Very tight bass now and the mids and highs are crystal clear and sublime! They are a perfect match for my Marantz 2330B. :)

I am planning to refoam these 2214H woofers of the L100T's myself, and after a while, will give them to Frank for upgrade and stuff. :bouncy:

Have fun.
Ramin

ramin_audio
01-17-2012, 12:18 AM
I have two issues:

First:
I was reading this very helpful thread:

Resurround Step-by-step (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?469-Resurround-Step-by-step/page3)
One thing made me worry.

In post #16 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?469-Resurround-Step-by-step&p=3125&viewfull=1#post3125), it says: "The two completed baskets, hooked-up and running the 30Hz test tone for the entire drying cycle. This is what the drying phase looks like. It's a bit boring, but oh-so-important. Keep that 30Hz tone playing constantly - it ensures the voice-coil is centered, and allows you to hear if things need adjusting."

How am I be able to do that (i.e., ensure the voice-coil is centered)? Is there a special tool for this?

Second:
Beside the metallic frame, there are 4 pieces of foams, which have to be removed, as shown in the pic below:

54485

I haven't seen these included in the refoam kits. Should I glue the old ones back after the refoam is done?

Thanks,
Ram

hjames
01-17-2012, 03:38 AM
Yes, you peel off the cardboard gaskets first, clean them up and put them aside.
They get glued back on last, on top of the new foam surrounds, to help hold them in place.




I have two issues:

First:
I was reading this very helpful thread:

Resurround Step-by-step (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?469-Resurround-Step-by-step/page3)


One thing made me worry.

In post #16 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?469-Resurround-Step-by-step&p=3125&viewfull=1#post3125), it says: "The two completed baskets, hooked-up and running the 30Hz test tone for the entire drying cycle. This is what the drying phase looks like. It's a bit boring, but oh-so-important. Keep that 30Hz tone playing constantly - it ensures the voice-coil is centered, and allows you to hear if things need adjusting."

How am I be able to do that (i.e., ensure the voice-coil is centered)? Is there a special tool for this?

Second:
Beside the metallic frame, there are 4 pieces of foams, which have to be removed, as shown in the pic below:

54485

I haven't seen these included in the refoam kits. Should I glue the old ones back after the refoam is done?

Thanks,
Ram

svollmer
01-17-2012, 04:58 AM
I highly recommend you search for Steve Vollmer's thread on restoring a pair of L100T with his son in Fall 2011 - lots of good stuff there!

This will be a great project. Take your time and enjoy the process and you'll be very rewarded. Here's the thread Heather mentioned: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?31885-L100T-s-Thanks-to-Heather-(hjames)!&highlight=l100t%27s+thanks+to

svollmer
01-17-2012, 05:02 AM
I have two issues:

One thing made me worry.

In post #16 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?469-Resurround-Step-by-step&p=3125&viewfull=1#post3125), it says: "The two completed baskets, hooked-up and running the 30Hz test tone for the entire drying cycle. This is what the drying phase looks like. It's a bit boring, but oh-so-important. Keep that 30Hz tone playing constantly - it ensures the voice-coil is centered, and allows you to hear if things need adjusting."

How am I be able to do that (i.e., ensure the voice-coil is centered)? Is there a special tool for this?

Second:
Beside the metallic frame, there are 4 pieces of foams, which have to be removed, as shown in the pic below:

54485

I haven't seen these included in the refoam kits. Should I glue the old ones back after the refoam is done?

Thanks,
Ram

Rick Cobb's kits come with a CD that has a 30Hz test tone that you can use. If you don't have that, an audio generator will also work if you have or can borrow one.

Regarding the foam pieces, take an Exacto knife and cut any adheasion between the foam and the side of the basket and between the foam and the top of the woofer surround and they'll come right off. You'll use the same glue that you use for the surround to replace them after the new surrounds are nice and cured.

ramin_audio
01-17-2012, 07:43 PM
Yes, you peel off the cardboard gaskets first, clean them up and put them aside.
They get glued back on last, on top of the new foam surrounds, to help hold them in place.Thanks for the info, Heather.

These woofers look to be in a good shape. They seem to be nice drivers... I will give them to a pro to re-surround them and totally service and upgrade the speakers.
JBL 4425 studio monitor has the same model woofer.

I am too busy these days, and when I come home I am frustrated! Messing up with these is the last thing I need. :crying:

The previous owner told me these speakers haven't been used for 15 years. Checking out the drivers, I believe he told me the truth.

ramin_audio
01-17-2012, 07:48 PM
This will be a great project. Take your time and enjoy the process and you'll be very rewarded. Here's the thread Heather mentioned: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?31885-L100T-s-Thanks-to-Heather-(hjames)!&highlight=l100t's+thanks+toHi Svollmer.

I read the whole thread. Not only was it informative, I really enjoyed reading. I bet you and your son have so much fun with these JBL's. Wish me luck. :wave:

DavidF
01-17-2012, 09:24 PM
I have two issues:

"...
In post #16 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?469-Resurround-Step-by-step&p=3125&viewfull=1#post3125), it says: "The two completed baskets, hooked-up and running the 30Hz test tone for the entire drying cycle. This is what the drying phase looks like. It's a bit boring, but oh-so-important. Keep that 30Hz tone playing constantly - it ensures the voice-coil is centered, and allows you to hear if things need adjusting."

How am I be able to do that (i.e., ensure the voice-coil is centered)? Is there a special tool for this? ..."

Thanks,
Ram

The tone puts the coil into motion that is suspended magnetically in the gap. Assuming no damage to the coil or gap this acts as a means of self-centering for the coil.

wu6fiend
01-17-2012, 11:36 PM
I will give them to a pro to re-surround them and totally service and upgrade the speakers.


Welcome to the wonderful world of L100T ownership. Aren't they terrific speakers? I own every model of the L-series (L20T, L60T, L80T and L100T) and am very fond of each of them. The L100Ts are one of my favorite possessions.

With regard to getting the surrounds redone, I'm not sure where you are located in Canada, but the staff at Vancouver Audio Speaker Clinic are very familiar with JBL product. Their work is top notch, and their prices are very fair. They've repaired a JBL center channel for me (internal wiring issue), and have refoamed a couple of pairs of JBL woofers too.

ramin_audio
01-18-2012, 08:53 PM
Welcome to the wonderful world of L100T ownership. Aren't they terrific speakers? I own every model of the L-series (L20T, L60T, L80T and L100T) and am very fond of each of them. The L100Ts are one of my favorite possessions.

With regard to getting the surrounds redone, I'm not sure where you are located in Canada, but the staff at Vancouver Audio Speaker Clinic are very familiar with JBL product. Their work is top notch, and their prices are very fair. They've repaired a JBL center channel for me (internal wiring issue), and have refoamed a couple of pairs of JBL woofers too.Hello wu6fiend,

Frank Fabian at Speakershop is authourized by JBL. He is very professional. He is the President and head of the Fabian Acoustics (http://www.maxspeakers.com/about.php) design team (Max Fidelity). I just gave him the L100T's this afternoon. He is going to make a new crossover for them with high quality components, and re-surround the woofers. Then, I am going to brace the cabinets myself, and sand and wax the veneer. I'll make a new risers and stands for them too... I think my JBL's will become super-L100T's. :)

Thanks
Ramin

ramin_audio
01-19-2012, 07:55 PM
I have one question:

Do L100T and L100T3 have different cabinets? Are they different in size, or the material they are made of?

Robh3606
01-19-2012, 08:19 PM
Do L100T and L100T3 have different cabinets? Are they different in size, or the material they are made of?

Yes the cabinets are different sizes and the crossovers are different as well.

Rob:)

ramin_audio
01-19-2012, 09:44 PM
Yes the cabinets are different sizes and the crossovers are different as well.

Rob:)The T version should have a larger cabinet -- right?

ramin_audio
01-19-2012, 09:46 PM
I also want to brace the cabs when they are back at my house. Can somebody kindly introduce me some threads and/or websites that give instructions. If there is a thread that specifically talks about bracing L100T cabinets, it would be wonderful.

I really appreciate any help. :)

hjames
01-20-2012, 03:47 AM
I also want to brace the cabs when they are back at my house. Can somebody kindly introduce me some threads and/or websites that give instructions. If there is a thread that specifically talks about bracing L100T cabinets, it would be wonderful.

I really appreciate any help. :)

Do they really need bracing?
I know a couple of us that own the L100T and have not braced them ...
The big upgrade is getting the 100T crossover upgraded to the T3 specification.

berf
01-20-2012, 05:56 AM
In terms of gross dimensions the T3's are actually a little smaller. Same height, 1/4" deeper, but 1 1/2" narrower. The T's weigh 77 lbs, the T3's are 58, that seems to tell me the T3's use a thinner cabinet material also. Possibly the internal volume is similar, someday I'll measure and calculate it. Somewhere I remember reading that the redesign made for less waste of "veneer" (sorry but I'm not a fan of the T3's wood product covering). I have both cabinets, side by side they look very different, primarily because the T3's have a taller grille. I prefer the proportions of the T's.
You can add bracing all you want but you'll be decreasing internal volume and see little benefit. If you had T3's I'd say maybe but for T's it's a meh.

ramin_audio
01-20-2012, 02:19 PM
Do they really need bracing?
I know a couple of us that own the L100T and have not braced them ...
The big upgrade is getting the 100T crossover upgraded to the T3 specification.Mine would have a better xo than both of the T and T3 xo's, with quality L-pads. I hope I am making a super-L100T. :bouncy:

I have to think about the bracing though.

Thanks.

ramin_audio
01-20-2012, 02:34 PM
In terms of gross dimensions the T3's are actually a little smaller. Same height, 1/4" deeper, but 1 1/2" narrower.According to hjames,


L100T3: 35 3/8" tall x 14 1/2" wide x 13" ..... deep

L100T:. 35 1/2" tall x 16" ..... wide x 13 1/4" deep (base adds 1" height)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?24851-Looky-What-I-Just-Got-JBL-L100T-One-owner!&p=251062&viewfull=1#post251062

I measured the depth myself and it was 13 1/4". So, L100T is deeper too, and 2 1.2" wider. The internal volume maybe similar though.


The T's weigh 77 lbs, the T3's are 58, that seems to tell me the T3's use a thinner cabinet material also.That's cool. :)


You can add bracing all you want but you'll be decreasing internal volume and see little benefit. If you had T3's I'd say maybe but for T's it's a meh.I'll consider that too. I may go for some minimal bracing. I have to find out the most efficient ways to do that.

lgvenable
01-20-2012, 11:02 PM
As others have said, I agree when you own L100's>>your money is best spent on upgrading the crossovers.

On refinishing do a search and you'll find some suggestions for fixing scratches etc under my username. Namely fill voids, chips, or scratches with walnut dust wood putty, and then use Watco danish (walnut in my case) oil to wipe on and finish to the JBL OEM finish.

If needed you can use a #2 pencil to draw in grain lines on the filled areas, and with careful use of watco you can make a filled arera look identical to the surrounding spagetti wood veneer. All of mine were in walnut, and I had them all upgraded to T3's before I ended up going to a three way setup with individual amps for each driver (and selling my L100T's).

Why brace?? JBL did a fine job designing them, spend your money upgrading the x-overs for a real smile. :<))
Larry

pathfindermwd
01-21-2012, 05:25 AM
The internal volume maybe similar though.



I have the T and the L100S which is the T3 service version with vinyl veneer. It should be the same dimension as the T3 and as Heathers measurements suggest, it's smaller (inside and out). I remember measuring them both at one time and they are both made with 3/4" particle board. I am not sure about it weighing only 58 pounds though, the things are heavy now, they seem just as heavy as the T. The T3 seems to do better on a knuckle test than the bigger T. The T3 has a larger diameter port.




All of mine were in walnut, and I had them all upgraded to T3's before I ended up going to a three way setup with individual amps for each driver (and selling my L100T's).



Larry that is very interesting. I have thought about doing this as well. Not only would individual amps be killer, but a powered L100T3 would be novel. Did you post this transformation? do you still have them? How do they sound?

berf
01-21-2012, 07:25 AM
Looking at the various shipping weights between the T's, T3's, and 44 series there are similar discrepancies. Without weighing things myself I'd say the T-series stated shipping weights are on the high side and the T3 weights are on the low side.
I just weighed a 4410 and it was 40 lbs. The shipping weight is 50 lbs and I doubt if there was 10 lbs of foam and cardboard in the packaging. If someone wants to throw a 100T and a 100T3 on the scale we'll have some numbers based in reality to work with.

JBL Eardrums
01-21-2012, 12:32 PM
I think the L100T cabs made out of the old school (large splinter, loose density) particle board, but a difference I noticed glancing at a L100T3 - it seemed the front baffle was actually made of MDF, perhaps the rest of the cab made of a cheaper particle board with a MDF front baffle? This would not explain the weight difference though. L100T also has a particle board "riser" ... T3 might have a plastic riser, but that is only good for a pound or so. Some of the "T3 Upgrade" concerns about internal bracing (added to an L100T) would seem 54540appropriate if the T3 has an MDF baffle. I love my L100T's, but I really love the difference in the T3's smoother sound.

ramin_audio
01-21-2012, 10:50 PM
I am going to improve the cabinet by doing some smart bracing... I don't think there would be volume problem to what I am going to do.

I believe they would sound really decent with the newly designed xo and new insulation materials and some bracing and I am gonna stand them on spikes. ... :applaud:

I really love my JBL 4312A with new xo. The mids and highs are really good... L100T has the same tweeter and very similar midrange.
I am just curious about the woofer. I hope they are good enough for me. :confused:

pathfindermwd
01-22-2012, 12:54 AM
I am going to improve the cabinet by doing some smart bracing... I don't think there would be volume problem to what I am going to do.

I believe they would sound really decent with the newly designed xo and new insulation materials and some bracing and I am gonna stand them on spikes. ... :applaud:

I really love my JBL 4312A with new xo. The mids and highs are really good... L100T has the same tweeter and very similar midrange.
I am just curious about the woofer. I hope they are good enough for me. :confused:

Only you will be able to decide. They are an excellent woofer in my opinion. Look up the 2214, there is a chart that compares them the the LE14H-1 somewhere around here.

We have discussed L100T upgrades quite a few times. These were some of the suggestions: make new cabinets that are mirror imaged, with rounded front corners, out of 1" MDF (or better), and with the T3 crossover, or better a Charged Coupled Network, or a bi-amped network, put the ports in the front to ease placement.

ramin_audio
01-22-2012, 11:22 AM
Only you will be able to decide. They are an excellent woofer in my opinion. Look up the 2214, there is a chart that compares them the the LE14H-1 somewhere around here.

We have discussed L100T upgrades quite a few times. These were some of the suggestions: make new cabinets that are mirror imaged, with rounded front corners, out of 1" MDF (or better), and with the T3 crossover, or better a Charged Coupled Network, or a bi-amped network, put the ports in the front to ease placement.1" MDF! Sounds cool! :bouncy:

Frank Fabian is making new xo for them with his top-quality components (Max Fidelity). I think it be will be better than both T and T3 xo's.

Making the front baffle, esp. the circles for the drivers must be very hard. How am I be able to make them?
Is there a thread that helps? :confused:

hjames
01-22-2012, 12:31 PM
1" MDF! Sounds cool! :bouncy:

Frank Fabian is making new xo for them with his top-quality components (Max Fidelity). I think it be will be better than both T and T3 xo's.

Making the front baffle, esp. the circles for the drivers must be very hard. How am I be able to make them?
Is there a thread that helps? :confused:

There are jigs available from place like Parts Express to cut large circles for such drivers ...
I am NOT the wood working guru - my tools are simple and I generally buy the cabinets I need -
but I gather you can use a router to put a bullnose on the edge of a cabinet if the wood has sufficient depth to work.

I have seen some of the more skilled cabinet gurus here making more complex designs -
but I wouldn't begin to explain their toolings ...!

ramin_audio
01-22-2012, 01:28 PM
There are jigs available from place like Parts Express to cut large circles for such drivers ...How about the volume? What are the best dimensions?

How do I make round edges?

ramin_audio
01-22-2012, 02:08 PM
Only you will be able to decide. They are an excellent woofer in my opinion. Look up the 2214, there is a chart that compares them the the LE14H-1 somewhere around here.Oh, I missed this one!

The LE14H-1 is the woofer used in models 240Ti and 250Ti (!!!). I couldn't fine the chart you mentioned. Does the 2214H come close or is possibly better than the LE14H-1? :blink:

BMWCCA
01-22-2012, 02:18 PM
How do I make round edges?

I'm just a car mechanic so I'm having a hard time in understanding how rounding the edges of a baffle that's only 16-inches wide anyway with a 12-inch driver mounted above the baffle is going to change anything. :dont-know:


Or was the suggestion merely an aesthetic one without regard for reflection issues?

pathfindermwd
01-22-2012, 02:25 PM
1" MDF! Sounds cool! :bouncy:

Frank Fabian is making new xo for them with his top-quality components (Max Fidelity). I think it be will be better than both T and T3 xo's.

Making the front baffle, esp. the circles for the drivers must be very hard. How am I be able to make them?
Is there a thread that helps? :confused:

I have never upgraded crossover components, I wish I could hear the difference it makes.


How about the volume? What are the best dimensions?

How do I make round edges?

It depends on your tastes. I have heard the wider T will yield better bass, but I find that the narrower baffle of the T3 yields better imaging. I wouldn't go any wider than the T. One way you could make the speakers would be to build the box yourself but have the front baffles finished for you by a woodworker.

hjames
01-22-2012, 02:38 PM
How about the volume? What are the best dimensions?


I only use my L100T with T3 xovers for Side Surrounds in home theatre usage ... but they do work great for that!
I've got big 4 way monitors for front Mains ... and L20Ts for the rarely needed rear surround use.

I kind of like the way they work with the original L100T dimensions - but what do I know -

It'd take a LOT of research and experimenting to find other dimensions that would work well for those drivers,
much less work better. If you like the way they work now, why try to change them,
especially if you are not an audio engineer?

ramin_audio
01-22-2012, 02:45 PM
I kind of like the original L100T dimensions - but what do I know -
It'd take a LOT of research and experimenting to find other dimensions that would work well for those drivers,
much less work better. If you like the way they work now, why try to change them,
especially if you are not an audio engineer?

I only use mine for Side Surrounds in home theatre usage ... but they do work great for that!
I've got big 4 way monitors for front Mains ... and L20Ts for the rarely needed rear surround use.Honestly, I havent heard them yet.

I just made sure the drivers work well ... and they are in good shape. And gave them to a shop to make crossover and fix the woofer.

Those monster monitors are too huge for me. I would love to own a pair someday though. I think my upgraded L100T will become fine and satisfying for me for while.

I would like to try making new cabinets for them though... :)

ramin_audio
01-22-2012, 02:49 PM
I have never upgraded crossover components, I wish I could hear the difference it makes.You are welcomed to audition them when they are done.

I am going to drive them with Marantz 2330B. Got RegaDac fed by a Marantz good quality DVD player (2002 model) to play CD's with.

DavidF
01-22-2012, 04:02 PM
Oh, I missed this one!

The LE14H-1 is the woofer used in models 240Ti and 250Ti (!!!). I couldn't fine the chart you mentioned. Does the 2214H come close or is possibly better than the LE14H-1? :blink:

Not in any way I can think of except perhaps a little more sensitive.


1" MDF! Sounds cool! :bouncy:

Frank Fabian is making new xo for them with his top-quality components (Max Fidelity). I think it be will be better than both T and T3 xo's.

Making the front baffle, esp. the circles for the drivers must be very hard. How am I be able to make them?
Is there a thread that helps? :confused:

If you are confident in woodworking to construct the braces, etc. you should easily be able to get comfortable with using a router and circle jig.


How about the volume? What are the best dimensions?

How do I make round edges?

Round edges to mitigate the tweeter "boundary bounce" should have a fairly large radius. In other words more than the usual 1/4 to 1 inch rounded stock trim or standard hand held router bits are not going to get you there. Difficult to achieve with standard home wood working tools. Better idea is use a narrower baffle around the tweeter and mid. That implies a two-box enclosure set up.

pathfindermwd
01-22-2012, 07:04 PM
Oh, I missed this one!

The LE14H-1 is the woofer used in models 240Ti and 250Ti (!!!). I couldn't fine the chart you mentioned. Does the 2214H come close or is possibly better than the LE14H-1? :blink:

The post subject references someones solicited advice to replace the 2214 with the LE14H. The consensus was against because the 2214 is very capable, which it is.

When comparing my 240ti to my 100T(3) I find the 2214 to be punchier/more responsive, especially at lower volumes, this might have to do with box reinforcement since the 240ti's are braced. Of course the LE14H-1's are old and the 2214's recently re-coned also. The LE14's go a bit lower and will play much louder without popping. The 2214's will "pop" (bottom out) if played too loudly with too much bass emphasized on the knob. You have to play them pretty loud to get there though. :D

Only recently have I heard of the LE14H1 audibly "popping", a friend just bought two 500 watt Emotiva monoblocks and got both his 240's and 250 to pop, playing together no less, it's a feat.

The L100t is just alot funner all the way around, tweeter and woofer, but that is just my opinion! :duck:

pathfindermwd
01-22-2012, 08:34 PM
You are welcomed to audition them when they are done.

I am going to drive them with Marantz 2330B. Got RegaDac fed by a Marantz good quality DVD player (2002 model) to play CD's with.


Thanks!

ramin_audio
01-22-2012, 11:16 PM
When comparing my 240ti to my 100T(3) I find the 2214 to be punchier/more responsive, especially at lower volumes, this might have to do with box reinforcement since the 240ti's are braced. Of course the LE14H-1's are old and the 2214's recently re-coned also. The LE14's go a bit lower and will play much louder without popping. The 2214's will "pop" (bottom out) if played too loudly with too much bass emphasized on the knob. You have to play them pretty loud to get there though. :DI really don't play that loud. Loud but not that loud.

The woofer seems to be built like tank. Cannot wait to hear them at home. :bouncy:

ramin_audio
01-23-2012, 12:01 AM
Round edges to mitigate the tweeter "boundary bounce" should have a fairly large radius. In other words more than the usual 1/4 to 1 inch rounded stock trim or standard hand held router bits are not going to get you there. Difficult to achieve with standard home wood working tools. Better idea is use a narrower baffle around the tweeter and mid. That implies a two-box enclosure set up.The tweeter in the 4312A is not harsh at all. (It was with the original xo.) I am very happy with the sound. I don't really think rounding the edges or a two box enclosure is really necessary. I prefer simple designs.

pathfindermwd
01-25-2012, 04:15 AM
The tweeter in the 4312A is not harsh at all. (It was with the original xo.) I am very happy with the sound. I don't really think rounding the edges or a two box enclosure is really necessary. I prefer simple designs.

I agree. There is only so much you can do before it isn't an L100T anymore.

ramin_audio
01-25-2012, 05:04 PM
I agree. There is only so much you can do before it isn't an L100T anymore.What is really interesting about JBL, is their high-quality drivers. I am sure a little bit upgrade in the xo and the cabinets ... would do wonders.

For example, I know that the JBL 240Ti is a higher class JBL. But, when comparing L100T to them, I see that with a better xo, my L100T's may even sound better than 240Ti's (in their original condition). Not to mention, I am going to build new cabinets with 1" MDF and do some necessary bracing ... I don't see how they won't sound as good as (or may even better than) ... say, 6K$ new speaker!

hjames
01-25-2012, 07:08 PM
The thing to consider is that JBL builds speakers for various price points ...
unlike the L100T and the L100T3 (which DID both use the same drivers but different crossovers and somewhat different cabinets),
so you can easily upgrade the earlier model to the newer design.

Its not likely that a $500 JBL speaker will exceed the sound of a $2,000 JBL speaker -
They don't both use the same drivers ... You can only get so much out of a specific stack of parts.

Want better sound? Start with better parts - you can go further.

But go your own route - and enjoy the ride ... its only money.



What is really interesting about JBL, is their high-quality drivers. I am sure a little bit upgrade in the xo and the cabinets ... would do wonders.

For example, I know that the JBL 240Ti is a higher class JBL. But, when comparing L100T to them, I see that with a better xo, my L100T's may even sound better than 240Ti's (in their original condition). Not to mention, I am going to build new cabinets with 1" MDF and do some necessary bracing ... I don't see how they won't sound as good as (or may even better than) ... say, 6K$ new speaker!

ramin_audio
01-25-2012, 07:30 PM
The thing to consider is that JBL builds speakers in various price points ...
Unlike the L100T and the L100T3 (which DID both use the same drivers but different crossovers and somewhat different cabinets),

Its not likely that a $500 JBL speaker will exceed the sound of a $2,000 JBL speaker -
They don't both use the same drivers ... You can only get so much out of a specific stack of parts.

Want better sound? Start with better parts - you can go further.

But go your own route - and enjoy the ride ... its only money.The tweeter and the midrange look to be very simillar.
240Ti uses 044Ti and L100T uses 035Ti. They are very similar. (OK, 044Ti may be a little bit better I guess!)
The midrange should be about the same too.

2214H is not the best JBL has made in the 80's, but they should be capable enough!

I believe the real difference is due to the better crossover network in 240Ti. JBL 4312A sounds "night and day" different with the better xo Frank made for them.

If I find a pair of 044Ti ... I will jump on them! ;)


54598

DavidF
01-25-2012, 10:02 PM
The tweeter and the midrange look to be very simillar.
240Ti uses 044Ti and L100T uses 035Ti. They are very similar. (OK, 044Ti may be a little bit better I guess!)
The midrange should be about the same too.

2214H is not the best JBL has made in the 80's, but they should be capable enough!

I believe the real difference is due to the better crossover network in 240Ti. JBL 4312A sounds "night and day" different with the better xo Frank made for them.

If I find a pair of 044Ti ... I will jump on them!
Are those L100T pictured the ones you now have? The mids don't look quite right. Maybe just the light or flash.

ramin_audio
01-25-2012, 10:27 PM
Are those L100T pictured the ones you now have? The mids don't look quite right. Maybe just the light or flash.



No. I just found them in Google.

This one is mine:

54600

svollmer
01-26-2012, 05:24 AM
If I find a pair of 044Ti ... I will jump on them! ;)


http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-VINTAGE-TWEETERS-044TI-JBL-120TI-PAIR-HARDWARE-/140685348943?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20c180104f

They look like the older silver model, but it might just be the flash.

ramin_audio
01-26-2012, 03:48 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-VINTAGE-TWEETERS-044TI-JBL-120TI-PAIR-HARDWARE-/140685348943?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20c180104f

They look like the older silver model, but it might just be the flash.The auction is ended... and they were sold for 313$. :eek:
I'm happy I got there late... saved me lots of $$... :D

hjames
01-26-2012, 07:20 PM
Aren't the 044Ti the unobtainium tweeters in the 18ti, the 250ti and many of the ti series?
Don't they always go for a LOT more than the 035tia tweeters?

ramin_audio
01-26-2012, 08:19 PM
Aren't the 044Ti the unobtainium tweeters in the 18ti, the 250ti and many of the ti series?
Don't they always go for a LOT more than the 035tia tweeters?Do they?! :crying:

Oh, I am not jumping on them anymore!!! :D

svollmer
01-27-2012, 05:03 AM
Aren't the 044Ti the unobtainium tweeters in the 18ti, the 250ti and many of the ti series?
Don't they always go for a LOT more than the 035tia tweeters?

Yep! They were in the 18Ti, 120Ti, 240Ti, and 250Ti. Not sure if they were in any others and yes, the go for A LOT more than the 035Ti or 035Tia. I got a pair of used 035Tia's a couple weeks ago for my garage L60T's for $70.

ramin_audio
01-28-2012, 12:18 AM
Just to be sure: The midrange and tweeter in the L100T are the same as those in the 4412 Studio Monitor -- right?

The woofers have the same magnetic structure, but different cone and metal basket. :)

I can't wait to have them back at my listening room... :bouncy:

pathfindermwd
01-28-2012, 08:15 AM
For example, I know that the JBL 240Ti is a higher class JBL. But, when comparing L100T to them, I see that with a better xo, my L100T's may even sound better than 240Ti's (in their original condition). Not to mention, I am going to build new cabinets with 1" MDF and do some necessary bracing ... I don't see how they won't sound as good as (or may even better than) ... say, 6K$ new speaker!

T I added L-pads to the pair of L100S's and by turning down the mid and tweet, I could voice the "S" to sound "just" like the 240Ti, with the bass being a bit heavier. So the L100T(3) is not really so far off from the 240Ti in the sense that they can be tamed down to the 240ti level. I also think the L100T(3) favors comparably to much pricier speakers I've heard. In fact, there aren't many speakers I've heard that I like better. Better is difficult to quantify, if it's better quality but you don't care for it, is it still better? To my mom who came over the other day and started talking to me about Bose speakers, better is what the TV says it is. :dont-know:


The tweeter and the midrange look to be very simillar.
240Ti uses 044Ti and L100T uses 035Ti. They are very similar. (OK, 044Ti may be a little bit better I guess!)
The midrange should be about the same too.


2214H is not the best JBL has made in the 80's, but they should be capable enough!

I believe the real difference is due to the better crossover network in 240Ti. JBL 4312A sounds "night and day" different with the better xo Frank made for them.

If I find a pair of 044Ti ... I will jump on them! ;)




I wouldn't mess with the 035ti. It is very airy in a way you won't get from the 044ti/240Ti. In my experience, the biggest difference in sound between the 240Ti and the L100T(3) is simply the voicing, not performance. Other than the 4" voice coil of the LE14H, the rest is about the same, if you turn down (L-Pad) the tweeter and mid of the L100T(3). To me it's just a few performance tweaks that make the 240Ti a superior speaker, such as a better box, and probably better crossover, slightly better parts..slightly. The sound is not greatly superior, but it is different.

Of course it isn't as simple as swapping out the two tweeters, if your speakers came with the 044ti, then in order to get back to the same sound as before, you would want the 044ti, not that it is better, just that it is better for that speaker it was made to play with. The 044ti has been discontinued, that is why they are so expensive, I wouldn't covet them over an 035ti for your application.

I'll say it again, the 2214 is an excellent woofer and doesn't give much away to say the LE14H, and gives nothing away below say 50 watts. Less than 50 watts and its better - in my room, with my equipment...disclaimer.

There are good deals to be had on 240ti's. You can probably pick up a pair for about $600. Just post WTB in the Lansing Market Place.

:)

Robh3606
01-28-2012, 09:55 AM
if you turn down (L-Pad) the tweeter and mid of the L100T(3)What L-Pads?


Rob:)

ramin_audio
01-28-2012, 12:49 PM
I wouldn't mess with the 035ti. It is very airy in a way you won't get from the 044ti/240Ti.I also need a bigger hole for the 044Ti. It is mounted quite differently. Nevertheless, it "must" sound slightly better than the 035Ti, but maybe not that differently, and it's not worth the trouble and the cost. :(


In my experience, the biggest difference in sound between the 240Ti and the L100T(3) is simply the voicing, not performance. Other than the 4" voice coil of the LE14H, the rest is about the same, if you turn down (L-Pad) the tweeter and mid of the L100T(3). To me it's just a few performance tweaks that make the 240Ti a superior speaker, such as a better box, and probably better crossover, slightly better parts..slightly. The sound is not greatly superior, but it is different.I agree, and that's why I decided to give them to a pro to design a new xo with top-quality parts. I could upgrade the xo with better caps and change it to T3 version myself... I hope they are really worth it. :)


Of course it isn't as simple as swapping out the two tweeters, if your speakers came with the 044ti, then in order to get back to the same sound as before, you would want the 044ti, not that it is better, just that it is better for that speaker it was made to play with. The 044ti has been discontinued, that is why they are so expensive, I wouldn't covet them over an 035ti for your application.I think, I could just use the same xo and just change the tweeter, and I believe it must sound slightly better ... but I have to edit the cabinets and these tweeters are costly and rare, and there is no repair parts for them anymore. So, I decided to stay with the 035Ti.


I'll say it again, the 2214 is an excellent woofer and doesn't give much away to say the LE14H, and gives nothing away below say 50 watts. Less than 50 watts and its better - in my room, with my equipment...disclaimer.They looked fine to me... I can't wait to give them a listen. :bouncy:

pathfindermwd
01-28-2012, 02:14 PM
What L-Pads?


Rob:)

The L-Pads on my L100S. I think the poster may be implementing them on his new x-over design also.





I think, I could just use the same xo and just change the tweeter, and I believe it must sound slightly better ... but I have to edit the cabinets and these tweeters are costly and rare, and there is no repair parts for them anymore. So, I decided to stay with the 035Ti.



But why do you think the 044ti is better? It's really difficult to compare the difference in sound between these two tweeters unless you have them side by side and turn down the 035ti by 3-4db in the L100T3. I think that the 250ti is definitely a better speaker than the L100T. But you're not just talking about better parts, you're talking about better implementation. What I'm trying to explain is that just because the 044ti is on the truly coveted 250ti doesn't make the 044ti coveted any more than the 240ti is coveted. It's only rare because they don't make it anymore. It's only coveted because all those 250ti owners who never thought they would have to buy another speaker are freakin out because they don't have a replacement solution and they don't want to carve out a bigger hole for the 035ti! :D

I think you're on the right path with your upgrades, and I think that the results can yield you performance better than the 240ti - at certain volumes. I already think my T3's sound better than my 240ti's in many passages. But I think you're getting off in the wrong direction to think that an 044ti is an upgrade for the 035ti. If you want a 044ti, consider buying a 240ti or 250ti, that's what they were designed with.

Do what you can with the L100T, it's a great speaker. And when you have taken it as far as it can go, love it for what it is blemishes and all.

ramin_audio
01-28-2012, 03:18 PM
But why do you think the 044ti is better? It's really difficult to compare the difference in sound between these two tweeters unless you have them side by side and turn down the 035ti by 3-4db in the L100T3. I think that the 250ti is definitely a better speaker than the L100T. But you're not just talking about better parts, you're talking about better implementation. What I'm trying to explain is that just because the 044ti is on the truly coveted 250ti doesn't make the 044ti coveted any more than the 240ti is coveted. It's only rare because they don't make it anymore. It's only coveted because all those 250ti owners who never thought they would have to buy another speaker are freakin out because they don't have a replacement solution and they don't want to carve out a bigger hole for the 035ti! :DI said 044Ti is slightly better, because it is almost the same as 035Ti. The only difference is that it is made (as JBL claims) with slightly better materials. But, in any case, they should be very close.
Maybe I am wrong, and I have never heard a 044Ti, but has had 035Ti's and loved them.

Are you implying JBL still make the 035Ti's? I really need one right now. How can I get one?

Jonis
01-28-2012, 03:38 PM
I really need one right now. How can I get one?

These are ending in ~4 hours, no affiliation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260939856271?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1115Bookshelf speakers JBL L20T (http://www.ebay.com/itm/260939856271?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649)

Edit: As pointed out later, these have blown tweeters- please ignore this.

pathfindermwd
01-28-2012, 03:38 PM
I said 044Ti is slightly better, because it is almost the same as 035Ti. The only difference is that it is made (as JBL claims) with slightly better materials. But, in any case, they should be very close.
Maybe I am wrong, and I have never heard a 044Ti, but has had 035Ti's and loved them.

Are you implying JBL still make the 035Ti's? I really need one right now. How can I get one?

Oh yeah, as far as I know they still do. The new version is the 035tia, used on the T3 and L7and similar. I am not sure where one goes to JBL to buy replacement parts. You could also check Ebay.

pathfindermwd
01-28-2012, 03:48 PM
These are ending in ~4 hours, no affiliation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260939856271?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1115Bookshelf speakers JBL L20T (http://www.ebay.com/itm/260939856271?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649)


He says those tweeters are blown. These are a pair:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-035TIA-Titanium-Tweeters-L20T-4406-l80t-L100T-Speakers-/160711768344?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item256b2af918

there are several for sale on ebay. I wouldn't buy the one's that are "copy's".

Jonis
01-28-2012, 03:52 PM
He says those tweeters are blown.

I just saw that too. Thanks for catching it. I should read more carefully or maybe just read:o:

pathfindermwd
01-28-2012, 04:29 PM
I just saw that too. Thanks for catching it. I should read more carefully or maybe just read:o:

Lol, well I saw $45 with 2 hrs left and I was like... :wtf:

ramin_audio
01-28-2012, 05:10 PM
How about a pair of 052Ti?

pathfindermwd
01-28-2012, 06:00 PM
How about a pair of 052Ti?

Never heard of them! :D

Ok, I've never heard them.

Dood! What is wrong with the 035ti?? What is wrong with the L100T? Why is this beloved speaker so easy to hack up? LOL! I guess it's not expensive enough! If they were $2500 a pair, no-one would want to do anything to them but polish them and listen. I think you should start with simply restoring/improving the speaker before trying to make it into something else. :hmm: :rolleyes: :screwy: :dead_horse: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


Sure... it's your money!

Robh3606
01-28-2012, 06:03 PM
The L-Pads on my L100S. I think the poster may be implementing them on his new x-over design also.



Thanks I was wondering what was going on

Rob:)

ramin_audio
01-28-2012, 06:13 PM
Never heard of them! :D

Ok, I've never heard them.

Dood! What is wrong with the 035ti?? What is wrong with the L100T? Why is this beloved speaker so easy to hack up? LOL! I guess it's not expensive enough! If they were $2500 a pair, no-one would want to do anything to them but polish them and listen. I think you should start with simply restoring/improving the speaker before trying to make it into something else. :hmm: :rolleyes: :screwy: :dead_horse: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


Sure... it's your money!:D ... No, no... I need a 035Ti or a replacement for my other JBL. One tweeter is blown.

I wanted 044Ti for the L100T, but changed my mind.

Two different issues.

pathfindermwd
01-28-2012, 06:20 PM
:D ... No, no... I need a 035Ti or a replacement for my other JBL. One tweeter is blown.

I wanted 044Ti for the L100T, but changed my mind.

Two different issues.


Did you check the Ebay options?

ramin_audio
01-28-2012, 06:29 PM
Did you check the Ebay options?Yep... no luck yet.

hjames
01-28-2012, 06:29 PM
How about a pair of 052Ti?

You are 70 posts along on this thread in 12 days -
5 pages in and apparently nothing has been accomplished.
You can spend as much money as you like reworking a pair of L100T speakers -
but there is only so much you can get out of that set of drivers.
If you spend too much on a mid-price speaker, you'll never get it back again ...

If you want better, start with a newer stack of parts,
get a better model of speaker, start with a better design ...

But whatever you to do, friend -
there's no need to drag us along on your train wreck ...

Post pictures when you are done,
but its probably best to work quietly offline until you are done.



Hello Friends,

I have just brought home a pair of JBL L100T's.
The speakers are generally in good condition. I want to restore them completely and upgrade the crossover.
I need some help here.

1- The surrounds in the woofers are gone! Can I re-foam them myself?
(Where can I buy the kit for it?)

2- The cone in one of them is very slightly out of shape as you can see in this photo:

54472

Is there a problem at all?

3- How can I get a new crossover for these?

4- The cabinets seem to be solid and it is heavy. Can a good bracing make any improvement?

5- The veneer is dirty. How can I clean it?

I really appreciate your replies to any of these questions.

Regards,
Ram

Robh3606
01-28-2012, 10:48 PM
But whatever you to do, friend -
there's no need to drag us along on your train wreck ...

Awe come on! This place famous for Train Wrecks!! Why stop now.

Rob:D

blugosi
01-30-2012, 09:16 PM
Just wanted to say, that your rebuilt crossover should have the values of the t3 crossover, and not just better components on your existing crossover. I have read the entire thread, and i didnt see anyone mentioning it, but i could have missed it........I have recently restored a pair of the L80t with the t3 crossover, and even to my old ears it made a noticible very positive difference, a more balanced sound, i would not want to switch back to the old crossover. I have made some other simple changes to the stuffing inside and the cabinet walls, and port length, but have kept the origional drivers and appearance, as i still want it to be an L80t. I would like to add my 2cents and say that I think it is ok to use proven methods of improving the sound to your liking, with the origional drivers. Then if you do not like what you hear, I dont think you will have a problem selling. .......i had to put cages around the speakers to keep my 3 cats from using them as scratching posts.

pathfindermwd
01-30-2012, 10:10 PM
Just wanted to say, that your rebuilt crossover should have the values of the t3 crossover, and not just better components on your existing crossover. I have read the entire thread, and i didnt see anyone mentioning it, but i could have missed it........I have recently restored a pair of the L80t with the t3 crossover, and even to my old ears it made a noticible very positive difference, a more balanced sound, i would not want to switch back to the old crossover. I have made some other simple changes to the stuffing inside and the cabinet walls, and port length, but have kept the origional drivers and appearance, as i still want it to be an L80t. I would like to add my 2cents and say that I think it is ok to use proven methods of improving the sound to your liking, with the origional drivers. Then if you do not like what you hear, I dont think you will have a problem selling. .......i had to put cages around the speakers to keep my 3 cats from using them as scratching posts.

Hi blugosi, welcome the the forum! I think someone has mentioned the T3 crossover, but if it hasn't been reinforced it's probably just because it has been mentioned many time before on other L100T threads. How did each of you mods change the sound?

blugosi
01-30-2012, 10:48 PM
hi and thanks for welcoming me to the forum. I mentioned the crossover because ramin kept posting that he was going to have his crossover rebuilt. I wanted to say to him that instead of just having the old one rebuilt, that the t3 really made a difference, and yes, it is all over the internet about the t3........I made a few internal mods by adding sheets of roofing patch material to the sides of all the panels. That, and the bracing and stuffing changes all contribute to a more articulate bass response. The sheets are very thin, and a couple layers really have no effect on cabinet volume in a negative way. The bracing is just a couple wood blocks 1" square. I read a thread about modifications another person made, he moved the port opening to the front by cutting a hole, i am sure that works very well, a person could also first try putting pillows behind the cabinet where the port exits, which is what i have done.

pathfindermwd
01-30-2012, 11:12 PM
hi and thanks for welcoming me to the forum. I mentioned the crossover because ramin kept posting that he was going to have his crossover rebuilt. I wanted to say to him that instead of just having the old one rebuilt, that the t3 really made a difference, and yes, it is all over the internet about the t3........I made a few internal mods by adding sheets of roofing patch material to the sides of all the panels. That, and the bracing and stuffing changes all contribute to a more articulate bass response. The sheets are very thin, and a couple layers really have no effect on cabinet volume in a negative way. The bracing is just a couple wood blocks 1" square. I read a thread about modifications another person made, he moved the port opening to the front by cutting a hole, i am sure that works very well, a person could also first try putting pillows behind the cabinet where the port exits, which is what i have done.

You mentioned that you changed the port length as well. I have recently read about someone else having doing this also, how does it affect the sound? Where did you put the 1" wooden blocks, and were they screwed in or simply glued?

I've always wondered why the port can't be put on the top of the speaker facing the ceiling.:dont-know:

ramin_audio
01-31-2012, 08:18 PM
hi and thanks for welcoming me to the forum. I mentioned the crossover because ramin kept posting that he was going to have his crossover rebuilt. I wanted to say to him that instead of just having the old one rebuilt, that the t3 really made a difference, and yes, it is all over the internet about the t3.Hi and Welcome.

I gave the speakers to a pro and he is designing and making new crossovers for them. I haven't got them back yet, but I expect the new xo's to be an upgrade even over the T3's xo.


I made a few internal mods by adding sheets of roofing patch material to the sides of all the panels. That, and the bracing and stuffing changes all contribute to a more articulate bass response. The sheets are very thin, and a couple layers really have no effect on cabinet volume in a negative way.Wow! That seems to be a very good idea. Could you please specify on what exactly you used. I may order some from Home Depot, if you give me the brand and their type.

Did you glue them to the walls?

dawoofer
12-27-2012, 07:26 PM
You mentioned that you changed the port length as well. I have recently read about someone else having doing this also, how does it affect the sound? Where did you put the 1" wooden blocks, and were they screwed in or simply glued?

I've always wondered why the port can't be put on the top of the speaker facing the ceiling.:dont-know:

Cause it would blow your drink off the top. However, I would not change the cabinet on any order.

BMWCCA
12-28-2012, 01:19 AM
Cause it would blow your drink off the top. However, I would not change the cabinet on any order.



You may have realized by now that you are replying to a post that is almost a year old, NTTAWWT. ;)

natsup5548
08-15-2013, 01:13 AM
My L100T cabinets were destroyed by a flood. Does anybody know where these cabinets are sold? Also, where can I get cabinet specs (dimensions, speaker/duct placements, etc)? Any help would be highly appreciated. Thanks. God bless!

hjames
08-15-2013, 02:38 AM
My L100T cabinets were destroyed by a flood. Does anybody know where these cabinets are sold? Also, where can I get cabinet specs (dimensions, speaker/duct placements, etc)? Any help would be highly appreciated. Thanks. God bless!
The Cabinets are not sold separately ... building a fresh pair would be your best bet -
if you still have the drivers, don't you have the old flood-damaged cabinets to model from?