PDA

View Full Version : Large studio monitor clone take two



Amnes
10-14-2011, 02:48 PM
Hello.

As some of you might remember nearly a year ago I did some heavy spamming on this forum regarding the topic of 4345 clones. I sold the project to a fellow diyer audiophile who most likely browses these forums alot since afaik all he has left to do is mount some crossovers in the boxes.

Currently undergoing are some heavy preparations in my household to build a pair of 4344 clones except this time around I'm not the one laying down the cash. Apparently my dad happened to gradually build empathy for my long gone 4345 project which he disliked earlier. As you can guess I have been assigned to "take care of things and make stuff happen" not so uncommon in terms of parent child relationships. The idea of doing a jbl build is much more interesting than taking out the garbage so I committed to help.

So far I have gathered a nice pair of 2123h's 2405's with new dias on the way and still in the mail are pairs of 2235's and 2425h's. Also managed to source a pair of nos d8r2425's. Clearly a set of 2307's is still missing. (Anyone with surplus 2307's please do not hesitate to contact me.)

After a quick glance at the driver selection it becomes apparent the crossover weapon of choice was to build a pair of cc'ed 4344 mkII for the top 3-way and mate it with an active xover. But there is a but. :banghead: The patron of this project assumed the finished product will only require a quick swap of cables from one pair of speakers to the other in order to listen to some music and refuses to stack up more gear in the living room. And we all know that means full passive...

Would it be a very bad idea to simply pretend the 2235's are me150h's? I assume pretty bed since they are completely different beasts. I'm stuck. And dumbfolded.

All opinions are welcome.

I might add, that there is a slight possibility I will manage to convince pops that active biamping is the proper way to go but that will most likely involve me buying a full set of active biamping gear and presenting it to him which I plan to do either way since I want to have this kind of gear for my own enjoyment. But it will take a while...

I might start a thread in general discussion because there are loads of options in terms gear selection for this matter many of which most likely are straight up failures.

BTW, will post pics of all the speakers together when they arrive. I'll also add that take three is already in the works since finding nice pairs of speakers often involves buying less attractive pairs too ;)

speakerdave
10-14-2011, 10:26 PM
I naturally wonder when, exactly, this problem came up. If it was on the table to begin with, then the sensible thing to do would have been to resolve it then or buy 2122's instead and build the full cc version of the crossover for the 4344, to be biamped later. If it came up later, that's a planning problem, and you are stuck with either: 1) finding a systems engineer to design you a crossover,or; 2) marshalling your rhetorical and financial resources and meeting your father half-way with a biamp setup.

But, really speaking, for either the 4344 or MKII, biamping will yield the better sonics (I say this based on my experience with the 4345), so in the end it is the only option. To do something else as a temporary measure will just add expense overall. If you must do something as an interim solution, I think the best thing would be to get respected but inexpensive biamp electronics like the Ashley crossover and a clean used sound reinforcement amp for the lows and upgrade when you can, selling the first equipment to recoup some, perhaps most, of the cost.

Amnes
10-14-2011, 11:50 PM
Thanks for the input Dave. The problem surfaced when I started explaining how all is supposed to work after the jollyroger go ahead buy me some speakers son faze which was after 3 pairs were already paid for in mail. An unbiased opinion really sheds some bright light on the case. It appears I simply must push the active setup idea through, the sooner the better as in the end it really is the only solution capable of giving the outcome expcted.

Hopefully the topic of passive crossovers will not surface in this thread again. Now if I could only lay my hands on a pair of 2307's... Does anyone know a source for knockoffs? I'm shure I've seen some on pictures, but never got a manufacturer name. I know coral has their iteration, but they are ever less of them on the market.

pos
10-15-2011, 12:01 AM
Guido can get you ME150H

Amnes
10-15-2011, 12:59 AM
Pos, that actually might be the second best solution, or even first best if a combo of amps, and a crossover is disregarded.

pos
10-15-2011, 02:09 AM
If you remove the massring of your 2235 to turn them into 2234 they will be very close response-wise to ME150

Amnes
10-15-2011, 03:02 AM
Interesting. Might be worth a shot too. After all used speakers are about 40% cheaper than new ones so a slightly butchered 2235 would also be more economical than the me150h option.

speakerdave
10-15-2011, 03:59 PM
I have a pair of those horns. Let's see if we can work out a price.

Amnes
10-16-2011, 11:16 AM
The crossover missunderstanding has been sorted out - going active :applaud:

Seems like were going to build two pairs at one time with pops - might cheapen the whole project that way on carpentry.

Thanks for the info Dave, shooting PM as we speak.

speakerdave
10-16-2011, 09:16 PM
Sadly, it seems that the horns were sold some time ago. I had two pairs, some 2307's and some H91's. I sold the 2307's recently to a forum member who is building some 4345's, and I had forgotten I sent the H91's to someone in Spain several years ago. I apologize for the unnecessary excitement.

Amnes
10-17-2011, 01:28 AM
Ahh, will have to find'em anyway.

richluvsound
10-17-2011, 04:22 PM
Have you tried Kenji ?

1audiohack
10-17-2011, 09:24 PM
I have a pair of 2307's and a pair of the Kenji or Kenrick or Ken-someone's knock off 2308's that I could sell.

Mr. Widget
10-17-2011, 09:52 PM
Sadly, it seems that the horns were sold some time ago. I had two pairs, some 2307's and some H91's. I sold the 2307's recently to a forum member who is building some 4345's, and I had forgotten I sent the H91's to someone in Spain several years ago. I apologize for the unnecessary excitement.I hate it when that happens... I've done the same thing.


I have a pair of 2307's and a pair of the Kenji or Kenrick or Ken-someone's knock off 2308's that I could sell.I have a pair of Kenji's Kenrick Sound 2308 clones... they are excellent.

Widget

Amnes
10-18-2011, 02:27 AM
SHIT!

I snatched a pair of 2231's with 2235 cones (could be seen in pics described as actual nontampered fotos) off ebay last week. The speakers that arrived are 2231's with generic cones. :banghead:

Why do people do shit like this. I will sort it out I guess. I can't accept this kind of fraud. After all what is paypal for. BTW the seller had most pics hosted on an auxilary site and took them down after the auction completed. Thankfully there is one pic on ebay host that clearly indicates a different cone and different baskets too (marks and writing on the frame).

That and a courier service smashed a 1kusd turntable I sold to a fellow audiophile in the last week. Ridiculous luck.

Now i'm frightened to crack open the 2426h's that just arrived.


I will certinaly get Kenrick 2308's if I can't get hold of originals. There is a nice auction that will end in a week, so I might have the 2307's sorted too. If not i will nag those who generously offer to part with their private surplus (1audiohack).

Still pissed furious. My anger management and meditation was going so well untill today...


One more question. Are air coils advised over iron core coils? My mate is sticking to original spec. I'm thinking of mixing it up. Any insight?

Mr. Widget
10-18-2011, 11:23 AM
Still pissed furious. My anger management and meditation was going so well untill today...Just when you start thinking you can go out in public again this shit happens... damn. ;)



One more question. Are air coils advised over iron core coils? My mate is sticking to original spec. I'm thinking of mixing it up. Any insight?I always use air core when possible... make sure you use a large enough wire gauge so that the DCR doesn't increase.


Widget

Amnes
10-18-2011, 12:03 PM
Good to know regarding the coils. I guess I will only stick to iron core on the coils neighbouring lpads.

BTW i have filed a paypal claim. The seller is playing stupid. Even the serial #'s don't match. See for yourselves:

Advertised: http://www.monalbum.fr/Album=WZQFFJUG

I think it's clear the advert fotos show a pair of 2231a's with JBL original stamped and chalked 2235 cones with a refoam job.

Recieved: http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%202231a/

A set with aftermarket generic 15" cones, not even 2235 knockoffs, no markings, nothing.

It's the first time I've been screwed with on ebay. I hope I will not stay with a set of 700USD shitworth JBL drivers.

Allanvh5150
10-18-2011, 12:14 PM
FYI, I have a pair of freshish re-coned 2235's here. I got the re cone kits from the official JBL dealer here, kits were in unopened boxes and no where on the cones was written 2235.

Allan.

Amnes
10-18-2011, 01:12 PM
Nonetheless those I recieved are not original. Paypal has informed me I have to return the speakers (at my cost) to the seller to recieve a refund. That is a ripoff but rather spend 30 bucks than end up with a pair of worthless drivers.

Mr. Widget
10-19-2011, 09:54 AM
Nonetheless those I recieved are not original. How can you be certain? How do they look on the front side?

Widget

Jonis
10-19-2011, 10:24 AM
Nonetheless those I recieved are not original.

Original 2234/2235 cones should have a white ink stamped number of 50320 on the back side of the cone. All six of my 2235H's have it. I think this was the JBL part number for the cone assembly. Amnes, do you see this on yours? Hard to find/see on a couple of mine.

Allanvh5150
10-19-2011, 11:56 AM
Original 2234/2235 cones should have a white ink stamped number of 50320 on the back side of the cone. All six of my 2235H's have it. I think this was the JBL part number for the cone assembly. Amnes, do you see this on yours? Hard to find/see on a couple of mine.

As I said, I have 2 2235's with newish genuine kits in them. They have no writing whatsoever. Test them.

Allan.

Amnes
10-19-2011, 11:57 AM
As previously stated - no stamps, no nothing. Please see the pictures from the seller and mine. His pictures clearly show stamps and JBL handwriting. In addition to that there can be seen redish/brown glue residue from the original foam. Also the cone in his pictures is grey. Mine is made of thin, black paperish stuff. Even the serial number does not match the one from the sellers advertised pictures. He deliberately advertised these speakers with a set of fotos of a different pair of 2231a's which were in much better shape. I'm not keeping them, they are shit.

The ones seen packed in boxes are the ones I recieved. They are a different pair than the ones which flipside is seen in other fotos. I call that manipulation.

Mr. Widget
10-19-2011, 12:08 PM
The ones seen packed in boxes are the ones I recieved. They are a different pair than the ones which flipside is seen in other fotos. I call that manipulation.I won't dispute the quality of the woofers you received, but there is every possibility that the seller posted pics that were easily obtained while shipping the boxed up set. He may have innocently believed they were equivalent. I would gently approach the seller and explain the situation... "please send me the pair that were pictured out of the packing because the ones shipped are not of equal value".

Even if his intention was to screw you, pissing him off won't help your case. That said, I think there is more ignorance out there than blatant dishonesty.

Widget

Amnes
10-19-2011, 01:01 PM
I can send you copies of the messages I sent at first to him. I did just what you mentioned - suggested he made a mistake and sent a diffetent pair to which he replied ballistic and accusing towards me (the person who has paid for his mistake) which was followed by me being even more severely pissedoff and filing a claim. I know how to handle delicate situations in buyer-seller relationships from the seller pov very well but when someone has no intent to take responsibility and acts like a child from whom a lolliepop was taken away then there is nothing to discuss further. I simply take a note never to do business with such a person again and pass the word out to anyone hipothetically interested in doing so in the future.

The manipulation intentional or not was something he just couldn't back out of for reasons which will never be known to me nor understandable. Just another transaction gone south, not the first and not the last.

Mr. Widget
10-19-2011, 01:09 PM
The manipulation intentional or not was something he just couldn't back out of for reasons which will never be known to me nor understandable. Just another transaction gone south, not the first and not the last.That's too bad... good luck getting your refund. Typically PayPal is on the side of the buyer so you should come out more or less whole.


Widget

Amnes
10-24-2011, 03:21 AM
I think I couldn't have gotten a better deal than this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330627668551&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:IT:1123#ht_500wt_1361

So far so good. I hope the Italian post doesn't mess it up.

Oh I forgot I was kinda screwed again. A set of 2425J with 2425h dias appears to be a set of 16ohm 2425j's with one dia blown. Quite a combination of mistakes in the description. I don't know how the people selling JBL gear happen to mix everything up lately and ship out goods not even nearly matching descriptions. Must be somthing in the water over here.

yggdrasil
10-25-2011, 12:41 AM
Oh I forgot I was kinda screwed again. A set of 2425J with 2425h dias appears to be a set of 16ohm 2425j's with one dia blown. Quite a combination of mistakes in the description. I don't know how the people selling JBL gear happen to mix everything up lately and ship out goods not even nearly matching descriptions. Must be somthing in the water over here.

Probably has to do with distance. It is not interesting to return goods overseas...

Anyway - replace with 2 new dia's of desired impedance and you are good to go. You can't buy compression drivers via eBay and expect the dia's to work. Accept working dia's as a bonus.

Johnny

Mr. Widget
10-25-2011, 10:20 AM
Anyway - replace with 2 new dia's of desired impedance and you are good to go. You can't buy compression drivers via eBay and expect the dia's to work. Accept working dia's as a bonus.I actually prefer buying blown drivers as you are not paying for a used diaphragm of unknown quality. If the seller acknowledges that the diaphragms are shot you pay less and then you can buy quality diaphragms and know exactly what you have.


Widget

Amnes
10-25-2011, 01:19 PM
True, but we have far less drivers floating around the market than in the USA. The drivers came actually from Germany. I haven't yet had a single problem with a deal in Europe, and now two gone south in a week. I've been told a pair of woofs has arrived at my uncles place in PA, so they will be here in about two months.

Meeting with a carpenter tomorrow.

louped garouv
10-25-2011, 01:30 PM
now two gone south in a week.

somtimes things happen, just try to move forward and keep your goal in mind --
is about all you can do, and it sounds like you are...

:)

Amnes
10-27-2011, 10:13 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong. From my understanding when building 4344mk II crossovers for active biamp the following components crossed with red X'es are unnecessary since the signal goes thru a path as drawn with black lines.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/Clipboard01.jpg


Here are partly finished crossovers from my friends 4345 4344 mkII hybrid project. I plan to make mine on very similar parts since I'll be ordering from the same supplier. maybe with the difference of air coils but why bother if the sonic result will be satisfactory utilizing iron core. Any opinions on them judging from the foto?


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSC04816.jpg


And here are the Italian gems:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2864.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2865.jpg

I never thought I'd have a pair of drivers with original red wax seals. DCR measures about 5.5R on both. Weird? My new d8r2425h's measure 3.2r

BTW the gear from Italy has been attempted being delivered today. <-(is this a sentence?)

Amnes
11-03-2011, 10:12 AM
Got a refund for the 2231 woofers. Couldn't be happier.

Amnes
11-09-2011, 10:26 AM
Hit and score: http://cgi.ebay.pl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140637077467#ht_3913wt_1344

Looks like I will be missing only a pair of 2405's soon to have drivers for both 4344 and 4345. This day couldn't have been any better.

Lee in Montreal
11-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Hmmm... Has the 2245 been reconed or refoamed with non-JBL kit? The gasket should measure 15mm wide, and the one in the picture seems smaller.

Amnes
11-09-2011, 11:47 AM
I'm 100% shure both cone and surround are original JBL. The gasket though does seem non OEM upon closer inspection but I couldn't care less (or should I?). Hopefully the pair that will arrive is going to have JBL cones... :D I shall see if the woofs will need a refoam then.

In the mean time I celebrate success in terms of ebay blitzkauf. :bouncy:

Amnes
11-15-2011, 12:26 PM
A nice slender yet hefty active crossover has arrived at my doorstep today. A nakamichi ec-100. It has a 3 gang 21 step alps pot for shifting the crossover freq and two other alps pots for high and low level adjustments. Seems like the perfect solution for a active 4345. I just need to build a power supply for it.

BTW does anyone recognise the DC input connectors?

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/audio/DSCN2898.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/audio/DSCN2901.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/audio/DSCN2899.jpg

Lee in Montreal
11-15-2011, 01:38 PM
Looks like a 4-pin DIN connector.

Lee

Amnes
11-21-2011, 07:58 AM
Thanks for clarification Lee. It appears it's cheaper to buy one of them online direct from China than even attempting to think of finding one locally. http://www.ebay.pl/itm/DIN-male-Plug-Cable-Connector-4-Pin-with-Plastic-Handle-/280687704054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415a4a77f6#ht_2589wt_1110

I have a serious fatum it would appear when it comes to this project. The 2245's arrived, packed very well, no obvious transit damage I even completely unpacked and examined them prior to signing the reception bill. Next I lay em on the carpet to examine cone movement and bam - one speaker has the VC nearly stuck. It barely moves and stays in the position left in when manually shifted.

I'm a bit concerned since payment was wired not paypaled. I think I might never again think of gathering drivers for a clone project. It's like every speaker transaction is a failed one.

Anyway is it possible that they suffered during transit? I've already had a pair shipped in from Rich who is twice as far away and there was'nt a problem of this nature. I'm kinda sad. Buying JBL speakers is like underwater blindfolded deerhunting.

Lee in Montreal
11-21-2011, 08:36 AM
Hmmm...

I'd still contact the seller. Explain that the package was not damaged in transit, and that one driver is sticking. Did you buy off eBay?

Lee

Amnes
11-21-2011, 09:13 AM
Yup - from ebay. I already contacted the seller - Germans are stand up people for the most part. But there is some good news already. I always let things cool off before starting a nightlong session of crying so I placed the drivers face down magnet up and let them relax for an hour. Flipped back over for a quick check and the situation was no where near as critical as before. I managed to move the cone around with only slight rub. Hopefully it was only the suspensions that temporarily got mangled due to being in transit in a cold envoirment tightened down F2F with zip ties one magnet facing ground resulting in the cone being pushed down by the other one. That dude Newton was quite mad fella.

My hopes are back up.

I tried to take down a DCR measurement, but the readout keeps fluctuating. After a good 10 minutes I managed to note down 5.3 on both but occasionally it still fluctuates. Any ideas on that? Maybe there is some condensation inside the speaker interfering. Of course I was not moving the cones while measuring.

I don't remember mentioning problems with a diaphragm buy from last month. Paypal had refunded my payment. Two days later USPS tracking changes status to passed customs. I now have to visit their office to declare their value and they should be here in a week... How awesome! I guess I will have to refund the refund :D.

Now I shall post a pic of all JBL gatherings so far:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2909.jpg

Lee in Montreal
11-21-2011, 09:54 AM
Hmmm... It's going to be nice. ;)

Fangio
12-01-2011, 03:20 AM
... I already contacted the seller - Germans are stand up people for the most part.
:thmbsup:


Now I shall post a pic of all JBL gatherings so far:
Reminds me to my own gathering a while back, pretty similar except I just went for the 15" variant as I didn't have room back then, for the large footprint of the 4345.

CC'ed 3145 xovers and aquaplassed diaphrams (thanks Giskard) were in the mix nonetheless.
Click:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj35/MacFangio/JBL_3145_CC/th_DSC09710cc.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj35/MacFangio/JBL_3145_CC/DSC09710cc.jpg) http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj35/MacFangio/JBL_3145_CC/th_DSC09607cc.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj35/MacFangio/JBL_3145_CC/DSC09607cc.jpg)

Looking forward to read more about your progress with this project. :)

Amnes
12-01-2011, 04:22 AM
I'm sticking to 15" woofs after all. The 2245's are defective - one has the VC stuck pretty bad, the other one has VC rub when playing. I think someone did a very bad job reconing them, and after that they were not played. What a loss of original recones... Too bad #1: the seller is evading me now. Too bad #2: I paid via wiretransfer. Kinda fukkt. That still didn't stop me from grabbing a second pair of 2405's. Now all I have left to source is a pair of 2235's and some 2307's to be in posession two complete sets of 4344 hybrid mk II speakers.

I have to say the worst part of all this cloning business is gathering usable speakers. Every second buy I make ends up to be junk or defective gear (of course ads list otherwise). It's disturbing and discouraging. On a side note I lately discovered my marantz pm 14 had defective xlr inputs. I took it to a specialist and he told me the amp might have been previously lightningstruck and it also took a bad fall to the ground. It too was bought off ebay.de. Bill: 200eur. I never had such problems when buying used gear from Poles, so it turns out that either Germans aren't as stand up as they used to be or Germany is no longer populated by Germans (for the most part). I keep seeing Arab Indian and Chinese last names on bills from DE. Just a random rant.

I'm in the process of ordering 4344 cabs - my carpnter quoted me with a cost of 710eur or 970usd at todays exchange rate. That's cheap (I think). Should I get them painted or just oiled up?

I love those x-overs Fangio. I have to order components for mine soon too so I can spend a month trying to figure out how to make them so clean and organised. Crossover porn = win.

Lee in Montreal
12-01-2011, 04:31 AM
Amnes, I suggest sticking to 2245. I have 2235 and 2245 and the 2235's output is clearly lower than te 2245. Much less authority. As for the 2445 with stuck cone, hopefully it is not from a shifted magnet.

A lesson learned here too. Always pay with Paypal. Any seller on eBay requiring a bank transfer is most likely going to be a scammer. Also, pay as "good" and don't skip the 3% fee, it is your insurance.

Jonis
12-01-2011, 04:46 AM
I never had such problems when buying used gear from Poles, so it turns out that either Germans aren't as stand up as they used to be or Germany is no longer populated by Germans (for the most part). I keep seeing Arab Indian and Chinese last names on bills from DE. Just a random rant.


Son, rant all you want, but please direct it at individuals and not countries. Dangerous generalizations. We don't need this here! Sorry you've run into such problems.

Lee in Montreal
12-01-2011, 05:29 AM
I am currently being scammed out of three BBS wheel caps by "an American" in Detroit. It doesn't make all Americans dirty rotten scoundrels :D

When I was a kid in the early 1970s, we had "innocent" jokes on Blacks, Jews, Poles, Ukranians, Gipsies, Italians, Yugoslavians, Irish, Mexicans, women, homos etc, and they came very naturally to any conversation... :eek: I am glad we have opened up our mind and now think those were ridiculous or even discuting.

Hey19
12-01-2011, 06:45 AM
I am currently being scammed out of three BBS wheel caps by "an American" in Detroit. It doesn't make all Americans dirty rotten scoundrels :D

When I was a kid in the early 1970s, we had "innocent" jokes on Blacks, Jews, Poles, Ukranians, Gipsies, Italians, Yugoslavians, Irish, Mexicans, women, homos etc, and they came very naturally to any conversation... :eek: I am glad we have opened up our mind and now think those were ridiculous or even discuting.

Yahoo boards:dead_horse:

Amnes
12-01-2011, 11:31 AM
Not true on the paypal part. About 25% of Germans don't ever accept paypal under no circumstances due to fees. The seller was clearly not a scammer since he has over 1000 transactions in the past 10 years with a 100% score and he actually sent me the merch. I asked previously but didn't get an anwser - can a 2245 have a shifted magnet? If yes it could be an explanation of the problem.

I know how to distinguish a scammer from a straight up seller. It just happens to be easier not to react for the seller when the buyer is far away than to solve the problem and be a man. After all what am I gonna do? Well I'm not the kind of person to stand around and wait. BTW most of the bad and funny stuff about Poles is true. There is a German joke: Go to Poland - your car is already there. :D

Lee in Montreal
12-01-2011, 12:01 PM
If one side of the coil (cone) can slightly move, but the other is completely stuck, my vote goes for a shifted magnet. To most people, the basket is now junk. If you are ambitious, you could reglue it and make sure it is perfectly centered by making your own shims using non-magnetic material. Teflon sheets, plastic. But unless you can delicately remove the suspension and the spider, consider them history. :D

Amnes
12-01-2011, 01:41 PM
That could be the deal here. Clearly it's not my fault they are defective so one way or another I will get my cash back. I've been screwed around with so many times by now in online purchases that it no longer makes any impression on me. It's just money however it is my money thus I will not be pr15 on the topic of getting it back. It still sucks.

Lee in Montreal
12-01-2011, 01:57 PM
I've been screwed around with so many times by now in online purchases...

This why it pays to buy from reputable people from a forum such as this one. :D
But I think that once you explain the problem to the person you bought from, he will make it right.

Amnes
12-02-2011, 06:17 AM
Looks like I was quick to draw conclusions after 4 days of no contact form the 2245 guy. From what I remember internet savoir-vivre 101 says if you may not check your email for more than 2 days either tell the people you mail with or set up an autoreply. From my examination of the woofers it looks like shifted magnets. Now another quick question. I finally recieved the d16r2405's. Yellow NOS. I was kinda quick to open the boxes so can't say if they were ever opened but there is somthing I must ask JBL gurus about before returning the reund to the seller. Is it standard JBL practice to run a ballpoint pen over the diaphragm foil? The first one has a much thicker line easier to see, because the dias are from distant production runs (one is '90 other unknown)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2958.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2956.jpg

ivica
12-02-2011, 07:23 AM
............
.......... Now another quick question. I finally recieved the d16r2405's. Yellow NOS. I was kinda quick to open the boxes so can't say if they were ever opened but there is somthing I must ask JBL gurus about before returning the reund to the seller. Is it standard JBL practice to run a ballpoint pen over the diaphragm foil? The first one has a much thicker line easier to see, because the dias are from distant production runs (one is '90 other unknown)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL 4345/DSCN2958.jpg



May be You can read:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?6368-Ring-Radiator-Comparisons&p=319074&viewfull=1#post319074
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?18519-Ring-Radiator-Production&p=187592&viewfull=1#post187592
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?18519-Ring-Radiator-Production&p=188524&viewfull=1#post188524

Amnes
12-02-2011, 07:45 AM
Thanks! I would have never thought to search this topic on the forum since it was so awkward to me.

Amnes
12-13-2011, 01:29 PM
Moar gear:

2235h and Rick Cobb edges:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2980.jpg


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2988.jpg


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2987.jpg


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2986.jpg


Knobs, ma15, grill pegs:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN2982.jpg


I'm ordering x-over parts tomorrow. The 2245ers are in spedition back to DE. Hope to close that case soon.

Cheers, Maciek.

Lee in Montreal
12-13-2011, 01:50 PM
Are you going to run two 2235 (or one 2235 and one 2234) per cabinet? Perhaps even one 2235 and one 2225 if you like a bit more kick and rolling bass than studio sound...

Amnes
12-13-2011, 02:53 PM
I'm building 4344's so there will be one 2235 per cabinet ;). I hope to build 4355ers some day too tho.

ivica
12-14-2011, 03:20 AM
Moar gear:

2235h and Rick Cobb edges:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL 4345/DSCN2980.jpg


The 2245ers are in spedition back to DE. Hope to close that case soon.

Cheers, Maciek.
Nice to see so many JBL drivers and accessories, but where are mid-basses ?
About 2245, may be interesting: (in Europe)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-Model-2245H-18-speakers-Fresh-recones-Nice-/380377993235?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58904b9013
Best luck
Ivica

PS. Ops, my mistake about the location, it is Canada.... :-((

Lee in Montreal
12-14-2011, 03:27 AM
Nice to see so many JBL drivers and accessories, but where are mid-basses ?
About 2245, may be interesting: (in Europe)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-Model-2245H-18-speakers-Fresh-recones-Nice-/380377993235?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58904b9013

Those are in Canada. I wouldn't buy them as the recones are aftermarket and his installs usually are a bit sloppy.

Amnes
12-14-2011, 04:29 AM
ivica, the midbass drivers can be seen on the previous page. I have 4pcs. of 2123h's lined up.

ivica
12-14-2011, 07:36 AM
ivica, the midbass drivers can be seen on the previous page. I have 4pcs. of 2123h's lined up.
O, yes, more than needed, so prepare for 2245 (or 2x 2235) project....

ivica
12-14-2011, 07:49 AM
Those are in Canada. I wouldn't buy them as the recones are aftermarket and his installs usually are a bit sloppy.

Yes, I have made a mistake about the country.
The problem about good 2245 basket is the first thing,
and the second is: in a few years foam surround on original C8R2245 would become rotten, and (I believe at that time may be no C8R2245 would be available by JBL)
what would be then the solution????

Do you think that 2241H is better initial staring point?
From the point of "price view" this is may be not too bad "idea"?

Or we have to wait some time for China production become available, such as::dont-know:





http://hnbaudio.en.made-in-china.com/product/AMbxBPoVfqhy/China-JBL-Neodymium-Speaker-2265H-.html

Lee in Montreal
12-14-2011, 10:12 AM
2245 and 2241 are totaly different baskets and different sounds. 2240 is same basket as 2245, and sounds a bit closer to the 2245 than the 2241. 2240 can be reconed as a 100% 2245 (except for the rear foilcap). But then again, only a 2245 sounds like a 2245. One local dude has/had a pair of 2245. I bought a single unit from him a year ago and it was as advertized.

Oups. They sold.
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648968496-_jbl_2245h_18_driversmint_/

Amnes
12-14-2011, 01:03 PM
What's with the thread hijack? :D A rule of thumb with JBL drivers for certain aplications is: get the proper drivers, or forget it.

Back on topic: it took me nearly the whole day to align orders for all the caps, cables, lpads, terminals, coils, resistors and what not. I need to chill now, my eyes are rectangular from the pc screen.

ivica
12-15-2011, 01:20 AM
2245 and 2241 are totaly different baskets and different sounds. 2240 is same basket as 2245, and sounds a bit closer to the 2245 than the 2241. 2240 can be reconed as a 100% 2245 (except for the rear foilcap). But then again, only a 2245 sounds like a 2245. ....................[/URL]

Well, my question is based from JBL original documents:
[url]http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2241.pdf (http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648968496-_jbl_2245h_18_driversmint_/)

where it is stated:

"....In most applications, the 2241G/H can provide more
low frequency response, 3 dB more output and less
distortion than the 2240G/H, with little or no enclosure
retuning........"

:dont-know:

Lee in Montreal
12-15-2011, 04:15 AM
^^^JBL claims the same thing about the 2226 vs 2225 (for having both, it is clear the 2225 sounds deeper than the 2226, even though the 2226 can handle more). The 2240 has Fs=30Hz while the 2241 has Fs=35Hz. It's statement, JBL didn't define what is "lower frequency". Is it 20Hz or is it 50Hz? When JBL says "more lower frequency", do they may mean the driver can handle more, just because the power rating is increased? Or is it for the same volt imput?. Most likely, JBL could also well claim that the 2241 can output more "lower frequency" than the 2245 itself, which would be true... :D

For having worked in advertising for a long time, I learned to decipher it... :D

Amnes
12-16-2011, 12:53 PM
I'm trying to lay out the x-over parts to measure out the board for them. Any suggestions? I have a nice stash of members x-overs pics, must study to get some inspiration.


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/DSCN2992.jpg

Gregegg
12-17-2011, 12:38 AM
Hello Gentlemen, I have been lurking around this site for a couple years and dreaming about cloning a 43XX myself and to be honest have ended up with a JBL addiction and an ebay addiction. I am enjoying some biamped L7s at the moment but could not resist sharing this particular photo and eBay sale. It may give some hope to other would be 4345 cloners that the some excellent JBL parts to had even if we have make some mods to the crossovers. You'll need 600K for this lot though. It probably a forum members business but makes great reading, Enjoy :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/McIntosh-Marantz-JBL-Altec-Western-Electric-Equipment-/380386905362



http://view2health.com/34.JPG

Gregegg
12-17-2011, 01:05 AM
Hi Maciek, I am not trying to put you off mission with the crossovers but don't most cloners now use non cored inductors to limit signal distortion. I know this is more expensive but other than the LF inductor (because it becomes massive) the cost now days is reasonable. I think Guido's earlier pic showed air cored. Just asking, since you haven't put the solder to them yet and may be able to exchange.

PS I am sure the earlier thread had some photos of xover clone which may help with layout and coil orientation.

PPS Please continue to share this project with us. Looking forward to the cabinet pics and thank you.:bouncy:

Krunchy
12-17-2011, 05:35 AM
I'm trying to lay out the x-over parts to measure out the board for them. Any suggestions? I have a nice stash of members x-overs pics, must study to get some inspiration.

Hi Maciek, been following your thread for a while, you must be very excited.
Here are a couple of pictures I took when I got mine, hope they help. Have fun!

Amnes
12-17-2011, 09:12 AM
I was debating using air coils, but their size made me go the iron core route. I figured since JBL is using them for decades now they can't be that much of a sound degrader. My drivers aren't NOS either (although in very good shape) so I don't see a point in investing in fat gauge coils.

I was at my mates place today for the first fire up of his 4345 without woofers and lenses yet and despite the lack of bass filling the sound was very crisp fast sharp and intriguing. I was afraid it might not be up to expectation, but thankfully it was very nice with that ultimate "live" feel to it. Krunchy thank's for the pics. I think I figured out a good way to layout the parts on the boards.

Robh3606
12-17-2011, 09:41 AM
I was debating using air coils, but their size made me go the iron core route.

Just watch the DCR especially when using Air Coils for bass crossovers where you need high values. There is a good chance you have difficulty finding them with the same DCR as the original corred inductors. The difference can be significant. I will look for Air Coils but more often than not I couldn't find them with the same or lower DCR.

Rob:)

Amnes
12-17-2011, 11:34 AM
The correct DCR air coils were availible at my Vendor of choice. I just didn't want them.

ivica
12-17-2011, 12:09 PM
^^^JBL claims the same thing about the 2226 vs 2225 (for having both, it is clear the 2225 sounds deeper than the 2226, even though the 2226 can handle more). The 2240 has Fs=30Hz while the 2241 has Fs=35Hz. It's statement, JBL didn't define what is "lower frequency". Is it 20Hz or is it 50Hz? When JBL says "more lower frequency", do they may mean the driver can handle more, just because the power rating is increased? Or is it for the same volt imput?. Most likely, JBL could also well claim that the 2241 can output more "lower frequency" than the 2245 itself, which would be true... :D

For having worked in advertising for a long time, I learned to decipher it... :D

I can only get from simulation that with 250 Lit-box, tuned at 40Hz seems that 2241 "goes lower freq. then 2240",
but that depends on reference level. With same INPUT POWER the curves are almost the same behavior.
2240= Red, 2241= Blue

Robh3606
12-17-2011, 12:23 PM
I just didn't want them.

Too expensive?

Rob:)

Amnes
12-17-2011, 12:32 PM
About 6x more expensive but not too expensive. It was mainly due to large size of air coils. I'll get them next time.

Amnes
01-03-2012, 02:05 PM
Slightly rearanged the x-over layout:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3060.jpg

And after a long wait I finally fired up the vintage active crossover and...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3070.jpg


...it definately works! Nice.

Amnes
01-13-2012, 06:20 AM
I reedged the woofers:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3084.jpg


Drilled the xover boards:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3077.jpg


And swapped out the active x-overs power supply transformer for a smaller one:


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3087.jpg


Keep getting closer to finishing!

Lee in Montreal
01-13-2012, 06:43 AM
Nice work on the re-edging and crossover. Patience has paid off :D

Lee

Amnes
01-13-2012, 08:20 AM
I hate refoaming. It's the second pair of speakers I tackled and it's tricky business requiring plenty of thought through technique impecable precision and a bit of speed too. The glue is always setting too fast :D and it seems to be never enough (ticking, slap). still came out pretty good anyway. Now I must solder the underside of the crossovers.

Amnes
02-25-2012, 12:34 PM
Over a month and I still havn't soldered the crossovers. At least I managed to glue the components onto the boards today:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3203.jpg

Mike F
02-26-2012, 08:42 PM
Hi Maciek, been following your thread for a while, you must be very excited.
Here are a couple of pictures I took when I got mine, hope they help. Have fun!

Is that a 9v battery in there?

Amnes
02-27-2012, 05:57 AM
Is that a 9v battery in there?

Most definitely there is a 9V to be seen on Krunchy's CC crossovers.

Amnes
03-17-2012, 04:39 PM
I finally recieved some pics from my carpenter. The cabinets should arrive at my place soon, since they are nearly completed.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSC00310.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSC00311.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSC00329.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSC00330.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSC00334.jpg

Amnes
03-25-2012, 10:03 AM
Nearly done... Hope to fire 'em up on Easter.


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/_DSC1768.jpg


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/_DSC1767.jpg


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/_DSC1777.jpg


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/_DSC1772.jpg

1audiohack
03-25-2012, 11:46 AM
Very nice indeed!!!

4313B
03-25-2012, 01:12 PM
Awesome!

Amnes
03-25-2012, 01:35 PM
Thanks guys. It has been quite a road so far. Will see if their performance will be on par with the cost. Hope so, since I have a second pair of speakers lined up though partly still in freight. I'd like to thank audiohack1 for hooking me up with a pair of 2307 horns at an unbeatable price. Thanks man! Now I really must get to work this week and finish assembling the networks...

richluvsound
03-25-2012, 02:14 PM
Wonderful job Sir ....

Robh3606
03-25-2012, 04:59 PM
They look great! You are going to love them when you load and power them up.

Rob:applaud:

Krunchy
04-02-2012, 09:32 AM
Nearly done... Hope to fire 'em up on Easter.


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL 4345/_DSC1772.jpg

They are looking really nice, you gotta be very excited, Easter's almost here!
The cabs look great, did you reconfigure the dimensions? (you may have mentioned it earlier in the thread, I have not read it entirely) & the three holes next to the mid are those the slots for the L-Pads?

Great work, and I will second what Rob said, you are going to love them! :) Hope you have a lot of time to listen & get acqauinted with them :D




Is that a 9v battery in there?

Abbysolutely! Hi Mike, didnt mean to ignore your inquiry, I must have missed it as I bounce in & out of threads.
Gotta change those as a matter of fact, have not replaced them since I got them a while back.

Amnes
04-02-2012, 12:07 PM
Krunchy - the only dimension different from those in Ahaboh's plans is the C shaped support under the cabs which is 8cm high instead of 3 or so.

I'm supposed to recieve a crate this week, thus I finally got hold of the soldering iron and managed to finish off one crossover. It was my first ever so I'm very happy ho hear it works:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQteMUhP_2s

Amnes
04-03-2012, 01:38 PM
And the pair is done.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3281.jpg

Krunchy
04-03-2012, 01:43 PM
Very Nice! you should be very proud of yourself.

Ken Pachkowsky
04-05-2012, 08:51 AM
Nice job your doing on these...:applaud:

Amnes
04-05-2012, 03:11 PM
Thanks for the compliments. This thread would not be possible without the support knowledge and other contributions from forum members.

Recieved a spcial delivery today and got straight down to business. Noon:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3288.jpg


Late evening:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3290.jpg


Need some sleep, and plan on wraping it up tomorrow so I can start blasting music.

just4kinks
04-05-2012, 03:47 PM
They are looking good!

I'm jealous. Still waiting for my recones (hopefully I will have them in a few days).

Amnes
04-06-2012, 07:03 AM
Just4kinks I can confidently say - there is a high possibility you will enjoy your speakers greatly. Definitely worth waiting for original recones. Mine are in operative condition as of now. I did some quick tweaking of spl levels and that's all it takes to make them sound very good. Base response is simply the best I've heard. The 250ti's can't compete in my room - I guess due to rear placement of the port's. The 10" midrange 2123h is an exquisite driver. It makes "In the air tonight" drums sound perfect. Le85 are spectacular on trumpets.

CC:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3293.jpg

Somewhat finished since music is playing:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3298.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3295.jpg

It will take me some time to seal everything up properly but as long as the cabs are operative and don't look half ass I'm happy.

highcut28
04-06-2012, 07:04 AM
great looking speakers and nice neat X overs - Well done
What sort of wires will u use for the internal wiring from X over to transducers?

Amnes
04-06-2012, 07:26 AM
Wired with 2,5mm^2 and 1,5mm^2 ofc copper.

1audiohack
04-06-2012, 07:59 AM
Very very nice! A project to be proud of for sure. What's next? ;)

All the best,
Barry

Amnes
04-06-2012, 08:37 AM
Thanks Barry. What's next? I beer or perhaps many beers chillin in the sofa listenin' to music. I need to get myself technics turntables, an Urei 1620 mixer and much more vinyl to keep occupied. Swaping gear is nice but from some point on only more music can be the anwser. Since I now have a pair of state of the art monitors + some pretty gear I shall learn to produce music and my goal is to release a pressed single or if I happen to be good at it an LP from the regions of house/trance/hardcore/dnb.

Mr. Widget
04-06-2012, 08:53 AM
Somewhat finished since music is playing:

It will take me some time to seal everything up properly but as long as the cabs are operative and don't look half ass I'm happy.Congratulations... looks like a lot of work that has paid off handsomely!

Enjoy those beers and the tunes!


Widget

scorpio
04-06-2012, 09:43 AM
Beautiful! Having completed a pair od ayaboh's design last year myself as slightly modified 4344, i can only congratulate you for the outstanding finish of your speakers, enjoy!

Now comes the real difficult part (at least it is for me!) balancing these 4 ways as best as possible... good luck for that next adventure!

Cheers,

louped garouv
04-06-2012, 09:46 AM
Thanks Barry. What's next? I beer or perhaps many beers chillin in the sofa listenin' to music. I need to get myself technics turntables, an Urei 1620 mixer and much more vinyl to keep occupied. Swaping gear is nice but from some point on only more music can be the anwser. Since I now have a pair of state of the art monitors + some pretty gear I shall learn to produce music and my goal is to release a pressed single or if I happen to be good at it an LP from the regions of house/trance/hardcore/dnb.

Check out a bozak if you can, a bit more quiet imo,
bozure.com has some interesting DIY rotary mixer options also....

Amnes
04-08-2012, 03:27 AM
Vid anyone? Clark Terry - Blue Monk:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrubH2Wxe7g

+ a Happy bystander:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3313.jpg

Guido
04-08-2012, 05:13 AM
Stunning Work!

I see you used lambswool damping material. Same as in my EV clones.

I specially like the placement of the 9V battery. COOL

4313B
04-08-2012, 06:00 AM
+ a Happy bystander::applaud:




It is so awesome to see you guys completing these great projects! :)

Amnes
04-08-2012, 10:31 AM
Yup - 9 packs of Monacor MDM-3 inside the cabs. The battery placement was chosen for easy access. I was debating on screwing the holders somewhere inside the cab's accessed via one of the ports - that would be kinda cool too.

G: mine aren't done yet. Still awaiting grill frames, cloth and must order 300$ worth of badges.

I've been listening a whole lot over the weekend and love these speakers so far. Very impressive sound. I can confidently say I'm no longer looking forward to bulding any tad based speakers in the future since JBL gear is so awesome. Guidos clones make me sooo jealous but none the less I'm very appreciative of these 4344's. Really great loudspeakers to own.

Krunchy
04-08-2012, 11:02 AM
They look Great! I agree about the battery placement, much better solution than having to remove the driver to access the board. :applaud:
Enjoy!!! :)

Amnes
04-17-2012, 11:49 AM
My project is finally and definitely past the 50% complete point. I'm lacking glass fiber cab filling, grill frames, two lpad knobs, big grill badges + foilcal repros, some foam seal and a bit of TLC. Actually that means I'm nearly done with the clones!

I recieved quite a big box of goodies from the US moments ago including a fine pair of 2235's with original recones, two pairs of double knitted? grill cloth (black and blue) and <drum roll> a pair of 2307's from the one and only Audiohack1 aka Barry. Not only did the gent charge me near to none but he also generously managed to supply me with a set of inch standard thread bolts enabling me to secure everything together properly when the time comes. BIG UP BARRY!

Here are a few photos to make me more credible:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3396.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3377.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3385.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3384.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3390.jpg

I have some fresh thoughts on the so called re-edgeing process that seems to be popular among us to cut down speaker servicing costs. I have resurrounded two pairs of speakers so far (LE14H and 2235) with Rick Cobb replacements and as awesome as it is to be able to keep speakers in operating condition at a fraction of the original recone cost - aftermarket surrounds aren't a comparable replacement to the real deal. I'd say that the original foam is 50% less rigid (twice the amount of cone depre)-> what probably means more bottom end and less boominess as I suppose. For now this statement is just an assumption since I did the ressuround on the LE14H's when the original foams were partially torn - I will verify it fairly soon since I have to remove the 2235 woofs either way to stuff the cabs with glass fiber. A quick swap for the original JBL pair will show me how it is.

1audiohack
04-17-2012, 09:08 PM
I'm glad you finally got it all! And I am happy to help. I'll be standing by to see what you do next, keep up the good work! I wish I could hear it from here. :)

All the best,
Barry.

Mr. Widget
04-17-2012, 09:25 PM
Here are a few photos to make me more credible:Looking great! I am sure the listening will be worth all the effort!

I do have a comment though. I wish you and everyone else would attach their pictures instead of using imbedded links... down the road, coming back to posts like this one below is always a bummer.


Widget

Amnes
04-19-2012, 12:33 PM
I understand your concerns Widget. I post pictures on external servers, because I post this thread on two other Polish forums, one of them doesn't have a picture server at all. I save time this way. Hopefully photobucket isn't going anywhere.

I recieved a package from sign-shop

richluvsound
04-19-2012, 02:11 PM
There is something really majestic about the big blue baffles .... ;)


Warm the 2235's up with a bit of this .... http://www.mixcloud.com/johndigweed/john-digweed-11th-annual-sunset-cruise-miami/



Rich

boputnam
04-19-2012, 09:42 PM
Pretty damned amazing. Well done. I can almost hear them (wish I could !).

Bravura...

Amnes
06-01-2012, 07:28 AM
It's been a while and I've still not finished. I've done quite a bit of little things like tidying up internal speaker cables with zip ties, rearranging lpad spacing to align with foilcals, repairing transit damage to the grill frames and drilling mounting holes in them, 2405 horn respray and some other even smaller yet important tasks one of which was adding proper internal cabinet damping. That + a bit of nearly scientific level tweaking made all the difference in the world when it comes to base response. Much more tight and punchy now. All I have left to do is to strech the grill cloth and mount grill emblems followed by playing a few records while drinking beer.

The soundstage is huge, powerful, detail abundant and has that ultimate open air event feeling while retaining the ability to play just as good on low volumes however I prefer to listen anywhere between moderately loud and painfully loud ;)

Alternative grill pegs ;)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3415.jpg

Almost ready:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3416.jpg

just4kinks
06-01-2012, 08:02 AM
I'm glad you figured out the bass response! How much and what kind of fill did you end up using?

Amnes
06-01-2012, 08:12 AM
I used copmressed mineral rockwool 3cm thick, placed on lower half of rear and side walls. It really helped the speakers out with the lowest octave, flattening out the 2235 response and allowing me to properly adjust the spl in the whole band. Great great improvement. The second pair will have the whole rear and sidewalls dampened + i will have sheepwool layed on top to prevent excessive dusting. I still believe the 2235ers with original surrounds will perform even better - time will tell.

Amnes
06-04-2012, 12:45 PM
It's taken me about 9 months this time around from buying the first pair of drivers till completion. There ar no longer any loose ends when it comes to the loudspeakers themselves. I plan on upgrading the active crossover to 24db, and changing the Carver amp in favor of a Marantz SM17. I've already started making arrangements to build a second pair since I have a full second set of speakers again consisting of all the clone goodies + more: blue baffle, walnut, grill pegs, foilcals, grill emblems, lpad knobs, rockwool, sheepwool, aircore inductors, CC'ed xovers and there seems not to be anything more to add.

Many, many thanks to all of you wonderful people on this forum - I would still be dreaming if not your guidance. Some teaser pics of the finished stuff since light was bad:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3470.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3486.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3488.jpg

Mr. Widget
06-04-2012, 12:53 PM
Well done! They look great.


Widget

Guido
06-04-2012, 01:45 PM
Again

O U T S T A N D I N G

speakerdave
06-05-2012, 08:26 AM
Impressive indeed!

1audiohack
06-05-2012, 08:31 AM
Very nice indeed friend.

All the best,
Barry.

Amnes
06-05-2012, 09:39 AM
Thanks for the appreciation guys. It means alot from this crowd. Now I shall upload the promised pics to the forum so they don't get lost.

55907

55908

55909

55910

55911

Tada!

Earl K
06-05-2012, 10:31 AM
Wow, beautiful work !

:)

just4kinks
06-05-2012, 10:41 AM
They look original to me! Nice.

Did you chamfer the port openings?

4313B
06-05-2012, 04:25 PM
Wonderful work! :)

Amnes
06-06-2012, 12:37 AM
Did you chamfer the port openings?

Had to google the word - yes, they are chamfered. I was indeed aiming towards making an indistinguishable for the untrained eye reproduction. If you're only after the sound no reason to do that, but I'm also a sucker for the blue baffle, foilcals, grilles and what not. Hopefully this will also contribute when selling these as I imagine a frivolous interpretation would be less likely to catch the eye. Need to post these in the classifieds :). Already made a payment for a second set of ebay seller rjtimmermann's repros so the games shall begin all over again. Nice.

Amnes
06-15-2012, 02:11 PM
Managed to fire up the 24db diy crossover cut at 340Hz with 0.1% 10k vishay and 2.5% 33nf mkp 1837 (pcb designed and distributed by p.f.pawlikowski of audiostereo.pl) So far I found the left channel hi out to be flawed somehow thus I was not able to perform full stereo listening tests. I can only say it generally works. At this early stage of testing it I was astonished by the dead silence coming out of the right channel compression driver when no input was being provided. That must be a good sign. On the LF there still is a hum to be heard which means my Carver amp is on it's way out. Not on par with the rest of my system and hearing the transformer buzz from 12ft away must be the source of the hum. Not a high fidelity amp at all. It is fairly old and has a THX certification badge so I shouldn't have expcted too much.

Hopefully I'll figure out what have I messed up tomorrow and proper tests will prove the design superior to the 12db nakamichi crossover I've been using so far.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/amnesboy/JBL%204345/DSCN3585.jpg

EDIT:

And done! I cleaned up the underside of the bad board even more thoroughly - problem solved. I have been performing listening tests for the last half hour and all I have to say is WOW! I knew the nak unit was stealing some clarity on the top end but I would never have suspected it of being such a piece of crap. Now the sound is back on par with the mids and highs of my 250Ti. I though that was some sort of a tradeoff from the horn/lens assembly plus driver spacement, but it appears the crossover quality was the source of the tradeoff. I'm pretty astonished and it will take me about a week to get fairly accustomed to the new sound. All that from 100$ worth of electrical engineering. I still have the option to upgrade the opamps to audiophile grade low THD kind :D and the total $ spent will still be over 50% less than what I've payed for the nak. I have been officialy converted to become a diy audio believer. The opportunities of free exchange of ideas over the internet have opened doors to infinite possibilities when the knowledge of people is being combined to an end result. Fuck patents. That shit is obsolete. Thank God most electronic circuit topologies have been around long enough.

just4kinks
06-16-2012, 06:31 AM
Very nice! What opamps are you using? 5532's get a lot of crap, but according to Self and others they are pretty hard to beat. And Self makes the point that most recordings have passed through dozens of them before even reaching the cd.

I'm glad you like it. My previous xo was the m552, which is also 24db linkwitz Riley, and I noticed a big improvement anyways. I think the fixed value precision resistors and high quality polypropylene caps make the biggest difference. My next experiment is to eliminate the electrolytics. Also I have a handful of vintage film caps I want to try out in the filters.

What are you using for an enclosure?

Amnes
06-17-2012, 05:10 AM
Opamps are NE5534. I might try some "audiophile" grade opamps + swap out the caps for 1% if I can find some for a reasonable price... I have a small aluminum box for the enclosure. Its steel backplate with RCA sockets can be seen in the picture. It's going to be crowded inside it although I'll be able to separate the PSU from the electronics with a metal plate. I can't afford a standard size enclosure since it would simply not fit on the gear shelf. The box sits firmly on the top amp behind the CD player so cables are short and everything looks tidy. BTW I plan on unifying all my signal cables with one kind of high quality and shortest possible length.

I've done some more listening and this simple crossover keeps impresing me. What an essential piece of equipment to compliment the speakers.

Ian Mackenzie
06-18-2012, 08:46 PM
If you care to upgrate discrete might be the way to go.

The problem with the chips is they can generally not be biased sufficiently into class A without overheating.

You can try class A biasing with a pull down resister on the output from the negative rail just for grins just be careful of overall power dissipation.

Some of the best big hi end names used this trick to up the hifi Uber of their solid state offerings

Here is a ready made discrete pcb kit from a guy who previously worked for Mark Levisnon.

The actual circuit you buy with the kit. It is not unlike the buffers used in the Bryston and the DX1

Scroll down and there is a xover kit. I have bought the kit but not had time to put it into service on my diy 4345

http://www.ska-audio.com/

bstleve
06-18-2012, 09:32 PM
I'm using LME49860 in my Yamaha D2040 crossover. They sound much much better than the former AOP (5532). There is no DC offset at their output, so you don't need any capacitor in the signal path.
I've bought mine on the bay.

Bertrand.

Amnes
06-18-2012, 11:57 PM
Ian, that little x/o looks very simple yet exactly what I need. Might go ahead and try it.

Bstleve, LME49860 is dual, I need single opamp. Funny thing is I bought 10pcs of LME dual opamp by mistake... I must get the proper chips after all. Either way I'm so happy with where these clones have gotten me. Great experience.

4313B
06-19-2012, 05:12 AM
If you care to upgrate discrete might be the way to go.

The problem with the chips is they can generally not be biased sufficiently into class A without overheating.

You can try class A biasing with a pull down resister on the output from the negative rail just for grins just be careful of overall power dissipation.

Some of the best big hi end names used this trick to up the hifi Uber of their solid state offerings

Here is a ready made discrete pcb kit from a guy who previously worked for Mark Levisnon.

The actual circuit you buy with the kit. It is not unlike the buffers used in the Bryston and the DX1

Scroll down and there is a xover kit. I have bought the kit but not had time to put it into service on my diy 4345

http://www.ska-audio.com/

Have you tried any of their other items?

yggdrasil
06-19-2012, 11:33 PM
I have built 2 amps with GB150D. They sound good.

Only real issue was that they were allergic to 2245's (output's fried at just a little pressure). Did work flawlessly with the Sovereign's.

4343
06-20-2012, 11:28 AM
...
Bstleve, LME49860 is dual, I need single opamp. Funny thing is I bought 10pcs of LME dual opamp by mistake... I must get the proper chips after all. Either way I'm so happy with where these clones have gotten me. Great experience.

Single version is LME49870.

Amnes
06-20-2012, 01:07 PM
Can't find dip8.
LME49710 looks good too tho.

4343
06-20-2012, 05:26 PM
Can't find dip8.
LME49710 looks good too tho.


You can get adapter boards, ebay has them, one is called a browndog adapter.

I just solder them into DIP sockets. Solder some wire wrap wire into the sockets of the machined pins. Then carefully solder to the tiny little legs.

I just ordered up some samples of the dual and single.

Amnes
08-31-2013, 10:44 PM
Been some time.

I've recently acquired the minidsp digital crossover thingy with a umik-1 calibrated measurement microphone. Apart from that I treated myself with a macbook pro and an echo audiofire4 firewire soundcard. These tools enabled me to make the first speaker measurements in my life. Other than that I managed to make use of REW in order to compensate for room modes.

The results were astonishing for me.

I started out by butchering up a new filter for in between the 2235h (LR 24db HPF @340Hz) and 2123h (LR 12db LPF @340Hz). Also I put a 48Hz HPF @10Hz because it felt like a good idea.

Being ignorant and all it seemed to work better than the analog 24db@340Hz previously employed on both the HP and LP. The minidsp also benefitted in my system with an absolute lack of ground loop - more soothing silence from all of the drivers. Low level buzz be gone!

From there I did a 10-20000Hz sweep in REW and made my first big discovery. The room modes were so damn big, that I was running way low on the average bass level to compensate for those mind blowing resonances mudding up the rest of the frequency range. In order to get the average level on par with the upper 3-way i had to crank it up quite a bit. 1/3 smoothed plot now started looking flat apart from the huge bumps at room modes. I then had REW calculate the filters to tame the bass, imported them to the minidsp and made some listening tests.

Was I in for a treat.

Finally the bloated with room modes bass was not interfering with the remaining sound spectrum. I don't care if you've heard it a thousand times before, even from me in this thread. The speakers now reproduce music, and they do it properly. Listening has become relaxing, non annoying. The soundstage has grown heaps. Clarity is spot on. No harshness. All of that from a box lighter than the interconnects connected to it. It looks funny, but I don't care. Any other minidsp fans out there? I'm getting me a tattoo... well maybe not.

Please bear in mind I'm not the overly analytical kind of dude, I like to jump on things, and get them going. 2 hrs of stumbling over the software to get this magnitude of a result? Awesome.

I bet I can further enhance the results by calculating different eq filters for the left and right bass channels since one speaker is in a corner and the other has only a wall behind it.

I shall now proceed to return to the couch.

4313B
09-01-2013, 05:11 AM
Any other minidsp fans out there?I use one with my collection of Everest II components.
Please bear in mind I'm not the overly analytical kind of dude, I like to jump on things, and get them going. 2 hrs of stumbling over the software to get this magnitude of a result? Awesome.That's been my experience so far.

Amnes
09-07-2013, 08:40 AM
That's been my experience so far.

I don't know if I understood that^ part properly, but if so... :D

Anyway I managed to record and edit a vid of my setup in action. I think posting it here will be a great way to sum up the project. Bombs away:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7w-SX5gDbM

JBLP
09-09-2013, 02:26 PM
Hey Amnes,
You are one of the examples who helped me to take the jump ....... to do a DIY.

Very nice result! :applaud:


I'd like mine to be as nice, but still far away from it.
I bombed it away.