3 ways to climb Everest

[vivaregina]

Just wanted to share a 3 way project with lots of help and advice from Greg Timbers.http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6076/6140031340_9f0b4046e9_b.jpg

[vivaregina]

Tried the 2 way set up, but in the end, it ened up like this ...
4x 600W Bryston 7bsst2 direct into each of the woofers.
stereo 300W Bryston 4bsst2 for the top.
Pass Labs xvr1 for the 700Hz cut and fedhttp://farm7.static.flickr.com/6184/6139480135_b1c04e0ab1_b.jpg back into another xvr1 for a 150Hz woofer cut.

[vivaregina]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6167/6140031164_2364d528dc_b.jpg

[vivaregina]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6139480297_934ce406e6_b.jpg

[Titanium Dome]

Okay, tell us about the wooden blocks. :)

Did you try them both on and off the blocks? (And how did you get them up there in the first place?)

[vivaregina]

There is no magic, but I always found that when lift the speakers a few inches off the ground, it cleans up the bass.

Something I learnt from the Japanese.

http://www.taoc.gr.jp/new_base.html

These are yoga bricks that I bought and thought what a wonderful idea for the Everest to do some yoga.

[timc]

Sooooo. The $1000 question. How does it compare with original passive setup? How much better is it? In my experience going active is a big step forward.

[vivaregina]

http://www.meta-gizmo.net/Tri/bi-ampling.html


Gizmo said everything there regarding bi amping.



Tri amp on the Everest took it to another level, and by a massive margin.

I tried a 250W bottom and 150W top bi amp.

Then switched to the 600W+300W bi amp. The extra power improved the bass control.

Then the revelation came with the 600W+600W+300W tri amp. Width, depth, bass control, detail, isolation and separation of instruments etc. I guess it is a bit like going from VHS (full range) to DVD (bi amp) and now to Blu Ray (tri amp).



In short, I stopped thinking about the audio and really enjoyed the music.

Try the Miles Davis Kind of Blue, first track, 8th minute, when the bass starts playing a little rhythm.



I could write a lot more, but it is really to be experienced.

If you own a pair, you must give tri amp more thought.

If you do not own a pair, you should consider getting them.



My ears are bleeding but I can hear everything.

[timc]

I have made diy system with the 1200Fe and the 2435/H9800, and getting a strong enough amplifier on the woofer, really made a difference. So was going from passive to active setup.

We use the Crown Studio Ref 1 for woofer duty. Man, i have never heard such control and efortlesness.

Good to hear you like your system. Thats some serious $ in Brystons.

-Tim

[caladois]

Thanks for sharing. Let us know about the progress in time. Concerning the tri -amp, did you tried a "simple biamp" before starting this work ? I don't believe the tweet need it ...
Am I wrong ?

[spkrman57]

I think it should inspire others to re-create top of the line models we could not afford otherwise!

Thanks for sharing with us!

Regards, Ron

[4313B]

Thanks for sharing. Let us know about the progress in time. Concerning the tri -amp, did you tried a "simple biamp" before starting this work ? I don't believe the tweet need it ...
Am I wrong ?One amp per 1501AL and one amp on the HF/UHF.

[Titanium Dome]

That back side looks like our PT250 project, except there's four wires going into the single port on the 250 cabinet: 600W-300W-300W-300W direct to the drivers.

[Mr. Widget]

That back side looks like our PT250 project, except there's four wires going into the single port on the 250 cabinet: 600W-300W-300W-300W direct to the drivers.Yeah, this system is just like your PT250 Project. ;)

If you decide to make this active three-way permanent, and it sounds like you will, Mr. Timbers designed the input panel on the Everests in such a way that it can be drilled out and an additional set of binding posts added to give it that finishing touch.


Widget

[louped garouv]

Yeah, this system is just like your PT250 Project. ;)

If you decide to make this active three-way permanent, and it sounds like you will, Mr. Timbers designed the input panel on the Everests in such a way that it can be drilled out and an additional set of binding posts added to give it that finishing touch.


Widget
:)

it's very cool when designers take the care/time to consider implementing things like this into the finished products...

another +1 for Mr. Timbers!

[Titanium Dome]

Yeah, this system is just like your PT250 Project. ;)

Widget

I said the wires going in the back port looked like it. :moon:

[Ian Mackenzie]

Must be that dang big inductor and electroletic capacitor on the helper woofer:D

[grumpy]

Yeah, this system is just like your PT250 Project. ;)

I wasn't going to say a word :D

That's said (now), I imagine it is every bit as fun!

[Mr. Widget]

That's said (now), I imagine it is every bit as fun!What's that Master Card line? Priceless???

Fun is key... and taking any of this too seriously is never fun.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

What's that Master Card line? Priceless???

Fun is key... and taking any of this too seriously is never fun.


Widget

We had a fair amount of food and drink and company to "assist" us in this PT250 project, so I think we're doing okay. We haven't yet broached the topic of active bi-amping the K2 S9900s supplemented by the S2S subs, but hey, we'd have just as many drivers. 4313B already commented correctly that they're not the same caliber of drivers, but after we get going, nobody's opinion matters anyway.

:cheers:

Still this is a great project for the Everest II and it may yet inspire a daring adventure with the K2 S9900s. :D

[vivaregina]

the setting for the 2nd woofer is 6db at 133, 12db at 133, Q Mid.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6203/6139480425_f4b0fef446_b.jpg

[4313B]

Pass Labs xvr1Nice unit!

[ginetto61]

I remember another Thread in this forum concerning Everest loudspeakers where it was stated that the midrange driver could take care of all the range up to the very high frequencies
At a show they put a blanket (?) on the tweeter and nobody seemed to miss it
May be expecially people above 50 :D
No seriously ... the Everest can really work as a two way speakers ???
Regards,
gino

[pos]

the setting for the 2nd woofer is 6db at 133, 12db at 133, Q Mid.
Don't you mean 700Hz for the 12dB/oct ?

[4313B]

I remember another Thread in this forum concerning Everest loudspeakers where it was stated that the midrange driver could take care of all the range up to the very high frequencies
At a show they put a blanket (?) on the tweeter and nobody seemed to miss it
May be expecially people above 50 :D
No seriously ... the Everest can really work as a two way speakers ???
Regards,
ginoThe 045Be maintains off axis power response. :D

[ginetto61]

So if I understand well the midrange driver actually can reach let's say 15-16kHz flat
but it become too directional at those frequencies ?
Sorry if I sound petulant
Thanks and regards,
gino

[grumpy]

Don't you mean 700Hz for the 12dB/oct ?

Those are the jumper positions.
Series, isolated (buffered), independent 6dB filter sections.
(I do believe)

[vivaregina]

OK, I showed the settings for the 150Hz woofer earlier.

The 750Hz woofer settings are set to 18/24db slope
Pole1, 6db, 530Hz, Q is M.
Pole2, 12db, 480Hz, Q is M.
Pole3, 18db, 750Hz, Q is H.
Pole4, 24db, 750Hz, Q is H.

If you have a different setting, do share.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/6152165557_aed2139a8d_b.jpg

[vivaregina]

The High Freq settings are on 6/12db slope.
Pole1, 6db, 750Hz, Q is H.
Pole2, 12db, 750Hz, Q is H.
Pole3, OUT.
Pole4, OUT.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6152165473_1ccb48ed9b_b.jpg

[vivaregina]

Picked up the new Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Plus.
Excellent DAC with a tube.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6081/6152165585_a34a5683df_b.jpg

[vivaregina]

In the process of running in ...


http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6152710954_753d023011_b.jpg

[vivaregina]

http://eeaudio.com/eeaudio.htm

http://www.morningstaraudio.com/

for those who are curious.

[4313B]

So if I understand well the midrange driver actually can reach let's say 15-16kHz flat
but it become too directional at those frequencies ?Yes.

If I remember correctly Greg brought the 045 in around 20 kHz in the Everest II (paired with the 476Be) and around 15 kHz in the S9900 (paired with the 476Mg).

http://eeaudio.com/eeaudio.htm

http://www.morningstaraudio.com/

for those who are curious.Thanks!

OK, I showed the settings for the 150Hz woofer earlier.

The 750Hz woofer settings are set to 18/24db slope
Pole1, 6db, 530Hz, Q is M.
Pole2, 12db, 480Hz, Q is M.
Pole3, 18db, 750Hz, Q is H.
Pole4, 24db, 750Hz, Q is H.

If you have a different setting, do share.
I need to duplicate your settings in my DX-1's. A bit more work to be sure.

[vivaregina]

I need to duplicate your settings in my DX-1's. A bit more work to be sure.

Yes please for all 3 settings !
Mr. Timbers suggested the roll off on the 2nd woofer is not that important.
Would you jiggle anything?

I tried each section separately and the impression was most of the sound was coming from the 750Hz woofer. But of course, you do not want your flour and eggs separately, you want the cake.

[ginetto61]

Yes.
If I remember correctly Greg brought the 045 in around 20 kHz in the Everest II (paired with the 476Be) and around 15 kHz in the S9900 (paired with the 476Mg)...

Thank you very much indeed
I was thinking that a "K2 like" use of the Everest could be tempting.
Nevertheless I understand that the K2 "...will always remain in Everest's shadow" :D
kind regards,
gino

[4313B]

Yes please for all 3 settings !
Mr. Timbers suggested the roll off on the 2nd woofer is not that important.
Would you jiggle anything?I'm still stuck in passive mode and the dual woofers are too much in my smaller, more cube shaped room compared with Greg's larger, more rectangular room. Going active will allow me to cut the power down going to the second woofer and/or change the crossover frequency, in my case probably down a bit. My two DX-1's are sitting on the bench with their tops open like virtually everything else I have to do. There's just no time these days. (I inherited Paul Bente's DX-1's, I believe both he and Greg went with the Pass Labs networks like you have).

Getting them up off the floor like you did really helps to marginalize the floor boundary. Four fifteens on the floor can be torrid. I ran into similar issues with 4355's and 4435's.

One thing is for sure, these fifteens have the most beautiful resolution I've yet experienced. Their entire bandwidth is stunningly good (and I'm using "grungy" old Citation 22's for power). Jerry did a killer job on their design.

I'd say JBL nailed the fifteen-inch two-way design once and for all.

[pos]

4313B, I'd love to read (and see) more about your current design!

[JeffW]

One thing that's not mentioned in the XVR-1 manual is the ability to make each filter high pass, low pass, or band pass. The manual only mentions high/low pass and daisy chaining the units. You can run them parallel and use each unit to bandpass a driver, or bandpass one driver with one unit and split the other two drivers with the other unit, eg: run a woofer and a tweeter off one unit and bandpass the mid off the other unit.

Just some trivia, I don't expect anyone is too enthusiastic over these crossovers.

[Mr. Widget]

One thing that's not mentioned in the XVR-1 manual is the ability to make each filter high pass, low pass, or band pass. The manual only mentions high/low pass and daisy chaining the units. You can run them parallel and use each unit to bandpass a driver, or bandpass one driver with one unit and split the other two drivers with the other unit, eg: run a woofer and a tweeter off one unit and bandpass the mid off the other unit.Actually that point isn't trivial... I helped a friend set up a pair of multi-amped speakers using the XVR-1s (initially quad amped and later tri-amped). Using the "secret" band pass jumper setting sounded significantly better than using them in the cascaded fashion.


Widget

[4313B]

You might want to pass that on to Greg too. I think he was doing the daisy chain thing.

[vivaregina]

If I just split the source output into two, go direct into each crossover, hope the impedence does not change to affect the sound. Because the way this is set up is with an overlapping woofer freq., each box is doing its independent thing.

[vivaregina]

like this ... I had to match the voltage again. Not that big a change. On a blind test I probably cannot tell the difference.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6185/6155207435_e1d001d6e6_b.jpg

[4313B]

Actually that point isn't trivial... I helped a friend set up a pair of multi-amped speakers using the XVR-1s (initially quad amped and later tri-amped). Using the "secret" band pass jumper setting sounded significantly better than using them in the cascaded fashion.Here's that drawing he had made. He may have changed it by now.


Must be that dang big inductor and electroletic capacitor on the helper woofer:DYeah, ~ 0.8 ohms on the primary woofer and ~ 1.3 ohms on the secondary woofer.

Just some trivia, I don't expect anyone is too enthusiastic over these crossovers.Due to cost?

[JeffW]

Due to cost?

Yeah, you could buy 10 Behringer DCX 2496s for what just a 2 way XVR-1 will set you back (and his is 3 way). I was able to save a bit by not needing a second power supply module, there is the same power connector (looks like the old parallel printer cable in the pics) on the back of my preamp. So 2 control units off one power supply module and one control unit off the preamp.

[vivaregina]

Regarding the selection of electronic crossovers, I can only describe my journey on the Everests. I had cards made for the Marchand tube & ss, tried the Bryston, did not try my older JBL and DBX units.

The sound from the Marchand was slightly warmer on the tubes but it was a trade off against the bass detail. I do go back to it depending on my mood, and the type of music. The freq on the Brystons did not match well.

In the end, I wanted to walk the path Mr. Timbers. His crossover for the 2nd woofer is from a circuit he built, but he already had the 3 settings for the Pass Labs. I thought about my DIY skills, and decided to go with full Pass Labs. If anyone out there has a photo of his circuit, it would be very interesting to see.

Other Everest crossover stories are welcomed, I am always curious.

[Amnes]

Epic thread. No more to say because it would involve heavy drooling.

[tomt]

My ears are bleeding but I can hear everything.




it's my undertanding, that when one 'climbs' Everest,

beyond a certain point,

emergency rescue, is quite unlikely.

helicopters, are only good / functional to just under 15,000 feet ...


`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````

J/K

[localhost127]

are those RPG diffractals (QRDs) on the front wall? i'd love to see the rear wall :)

[jerry_rig]

Very nice setup. I've been noodling a similar approach for my TADs. Any particular reason you are not running balanced? I may be wrong, but you may find a further increase in performance.

[vivaregina]

In the process of negotiation on a Pass pre. If that fails maybe a bryston, then go full balance. Any other pre amp suggestions?

The rear wall is 40 ft away, under damped currently.

Show us your kit on the TAD.

[timc]

In the process of negotiation on a Pass pre. If that fails maybe a bryston, then go full balance. Any other pre amp suggestions?



What about a dCS Delius DAC with integrated volume? I have owned one, and it sounds absolutely great.

[richluvsound]

In the process of negotiation on a Pass pre. If that fails maybe a bryston, then go full balance. Any other pre amp suggestions?

The rear wall is 40 ft away, under damped currently.

Show us your kit on the TAD.

In my opinion and experience , neither the Pass or the Bryston would leave you wanting... there is very little between them sonically !

Rich

[richluvsound]

Having spent a few hours with Viva today I can honestly say ,besides being a perfect gent and scholar ,he is indeed bitten by the bug and a full card carrying member of this wonderful JBL obsession we all share .

Rich

[louped garouv]

Very nice setup. I've been noodling a similar approach for my TADs. Any particular reason you are not running balanced? I may be wrong, but you may find a further increase in performance.

my understanding is that using 'balanced' connections and circuits, when not using a fully balanced circuit, is more about noise suppression than hi-fidelity potential...

:)

[jerry_rig]

In the process of negotiation on a Pass pre. If that fails maybe a bryston, then go full balance. Any other pre amp suggestions?

The rear wall is 40 ft away, under damped currently.

Show us your kit on the TAD.

Since you asked, my TADs are detailed elsewhere on this forum, but here's a summary: TD-4003, TH-4003 resin clones, TD-1601c and (currently) JBL 2235. The TADs are connected to a TN-4 800Hz crossover and powered by an Air Tight ATM-2. The JBL is powered active below 100Hz by a Krell KSA 300s. Driving it all is a Pass Labs XP-20 preamp.

Jerry

[JeffW]

my understanding is that using 'balanced' connections and circuits, when not using a fully balanced circuit, is more about noise suppression than hi-fidelity potential...

:)

Wouldn't less noise equal higher fidelity?

[Mr. Widget]

Wouldn't less noise equal higher fidelity?Sure, but if your system is already quieter than your listening room, it won't make any difference. :D


Widget

[vivaregina]

Spent a great morning with Rich.

I thought I liked to tinkle, and he showed me how he made his own horns !

He can certainly describe his configuration better than I, so I will leave it to him with space below.

The sound was stunning, the warmest I have heard from an SS amp.

I hope my L300 here took you back in time to when you first heard them at 18 !


http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6176/6188110324_d45b754739_b.jpg

[vivaregina]

The mold.
He said he can make the horns for others, I am tempted.


http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6166/6188110218_976fd56a77_b.jpg

[Mr. Widget]

How far off topic are going to go here? :blink:


Widget

[Chas]

[QUOTE=vivaregina;320627]. Any other pre amp suggestions?
/QUOTE]

Mark Levinson No. 326S. And if you can swing it, an ML 331 or 334 for the high pass power amp. Brystons are great, I use them for sub duty and band pass, but an older ML for the highs is sublime when combined with the 326S.

[vivaregina]

RMAF 2011
Like those shoes.

53292

[vivaregina]

Went to a demo session with Jerry Rig to visit some field coils. Jerry knows his stuff. Great guy. After talking with him, I might get around to plugging some more tubes into my line up and see what happens.

[vivaregina]

From Nelson Pass ...

Later versions of the XVR1 have an added internal switch which places the high-pass filter after the low-pass filter. The low-pass output on the rear panel is untouched, but the high-pass output reflects both the low-pass and-high pass filters. This is simply a convenience feature – you can get the same performance with the original circuit - in both cases it requires 2 XVR1’s to make a 3 way crossover.

[richluvsound]

Sorry I missed your call .

How is the Pre-amp experiment going ?

Rich

[JeffW]

From Nelson Pass ...

Later versions of the XVR1 have an added internal switch which places the high-pass filter after the low-pass filter. The low-pass output on the rear panel is untouched, but the high-pass output reflects both the low-pass and-high pass filters. This is simply a convenience feature – you can get the same performance with the original circuit - in both cases it requires 2 XVR1’s to make a 3 way crossover.

Right, thats the BP jumper we mentioned. Aside from convenience, it allows one complete filter to be made from a single box as opposed to having the filter spit between two different boxes with the additional wiring involved.

You said you didn't notice any difference between the 2 different methods, and others have commented that they prefer the BP configuration as opposed to the daisy chain configuration. So it's just a personal decision. I didn't know of it until I called and spoke at some length with Kent at Pass, he said that the XVR1 was one of the lowest noise devices they made and daisy chaining the units as in the manual shouldn't be an issue...but then they still added the BP jumper, which meant a change to the circuit boards. There must have been some perceived benefit, other than convenience, to go through all that.

[vivaregina]

Pre amps ...

53947

[Mr. Widget]

Pre amps ...
It appears the Bryston Pre is powered up and the Marantz is not... would you mind describing the sonic differences? What other preamps have you tried?


Widget

[JeffW]

It appears the Bryston Pre is powered up and the Marantz is not... would you mind describing the sonic differences? What other preamps have you tried?


Widget


You evidently got a lot more out of his post than I did.

[vivaregina]

Strangely, they all have their strengths. Each time I switched over, I noticed and preferred the switch. In a strange way, I hear what was slightly lacking previously. BP26 has better bass resolution, 7 has better highs, JP80MC has better tone and sound stage. If I were forced to live with only one, I might choose the latter, the most musical. But in the end, the answer is enjoyment found in all of them.

The Marantz was actually switched on., but I made the photo too small so you had to squint.

Ah, I also tried the least dynamic ... it was a passive 50K volume pot.

One more pre amp coming ... I hope this week.... a 3 piece.

[JeffW]

One more pre amp coming ... I hope this week.... a 3 piece.

Cool, I run a 2 piece.

[vivaregina]

Running full balanced and slave output to lower freq XO.
Result is excellent.

54551

[JeffW]

You should crop your pic just a little more, we can still make out what it is.

[jerry_rig]

Hey Charlie, balanced is the way to go. Enjoy!

Jerry

[vivaregina]

Hi Jerry
Top 2 of the 3 piece


54581

[jerry_rig]

Looks like the Pass Labs XP-30. :applaud: Makes my XP-20 look puny!

[vivaregina]

I thought I read something about my Plimsoll Line ...
anyway, my motto
"If you wanna play, you gotta pay."

54605

[Mr. Widget]

"If you wanna play, you gotta pay."That usually is the case... though simply paying and paying isn't always the best way to play. ;)

I'd suggest while your level of expenditure is orders of magnitude greater than the average forum member's, from what I can see you've made rational choices.

For those of us who appreciate this stuff vicariously, would you mind describing your current signal chain in some detail?


Widget

[caladois]

You are right Widget !

[Titanium Dome]

For those of us who appreciate this stuff vicariously, would you mind describing your current signal chain in some detail?


Widget

Including your home address, the code to your burglar alarm system, and your home's floor plan? I like to appreciate stuff vicariously in person... if you know what I mean.

-------------------------
Note to cops, TSA, Homeland Security, FBI, CIA, sheriff's departments, private security, alarm companies, Google data aggregators/tattletales, and other Herberts: it's a friggin' joke. Get it?

[timc]

Note to cops, TSA, Homeland Security, FBI, CIA, sheriff's departments, private security, alarm companies, Google data aggregators/tattletales, and other Herberts: it's a friggin' joke. Get it?


Priceless!

Is it in response two the reaction towards the two swedes who made joke on Twitter?

And btw, you forgot NSA.

[vivaregina]

New 2nd Project, changes to crossover
54730

[vivaregina]

The mid horn crossover
54731

[vivaregina]

Take out the wires to the lower crossovers, meaning take out the front binding posts, but keeping the 9V batteries

54733

[vivaregina]

Change value of R8 reisitor from 3 Ohm to 2.7 Ohm to lower the brightness.
As recommended by Mr. G.T.

54734

[vivaregina]

Kiwame Carbon Film resistor.
The sound is smoother, less nervous around the 2k Hz region.
Previously it was a little more metallic, more glare.
I was skeptical before the change, but I heard it on the 2nd pair, and went for it.
I would say the change improved the character of the speakers.

54765

[vivaregina]

an acoustic engineer said I should read more

55544

[vivaregina]

The crossover set up is back to the original GT concept of 750Hz fed into the 150Hz cut, so I am running bass output of XVR1 back into input of second XVR1, instead of slave direct from pre amp.

The frequencies for voltage match is 1k Hz and 50 Hz. Make sure you adjust the main woofer first, as that will affect the 2nd woofer if it is hooked up as above.

For those who are following the internal changes very closely, for the HF schematic, the Red wire is connected to the WHITE position on internal circuit, so you bypass C1 and C2 both 47uF capacitors.

[Allanvh5150]

I have to ask, are these the actual crossovers from the 66000?

[4313B]

Yep.

[Guido]

Change value of R8 reisitor from 3 Ohm to 2.7 Ohm to lower the brightness.
As recommended by Mr. G.T.

54734

Interesting project!

The 2.7 ohms for R8 is exactly what I came up with in my clones. I did a few other mods but they of course are not recomended by G.T.
I'll post the schematics in my DD66000 clone thread when I'm done with modding :)

[4313B]

You know you can put some low value resistors in series with one leg of some L-Pads on all those notches and dial them in on the fly. Once you get them dialed in for your room just substitute in the actual resistor values.

[vivaregina]

55795

[vivaregina]

So, here is the Question …
What do you do after climbing the Everest ?
Well, I decided to go deep, deep Ocean, … Ocean Way.

http://oceanwayaudio.com/ (http://oceanwayaudio.com/)

I had expected the bass performance of the Everest to be out gunned by these big boys. 50% taller and deeper. I was so surprised the Everest matched its deep, clear, loud, distortion free bass. I think it was because of the independent one 600W mono amp per 15 inch driver.

The current set up of the Everest with the 300W stereo for the top, could be the weak link, vs the great Viola Audio Labs amps used to drive Ocean Way HR2 monitor system. Absolute respect for Tom Colangelo, even from the days of the ML2. His legacy lives on in these great amps.

http://www.violalabs.com/ (http://www.violalabs.com/)

http://oceanwayaudio.com/oceanway-monitors/hr2-monitor-system/ (http://oceanwayaudio.com/oceanway-monitors/hr2-monitor-system/)

I know what I am going to be lifting this summer.
Viola Cadenza and Legacy amps, Nagra PLP, and an absolutely delicious CH Precision CD player http://ch-precision.com/site/ (http://ch-precision.com/site/)

[vivaregina]

55834

[vivaregina]

55835

[vivaregina]

55836

[vivaregina]

55837

[vivaregina]

55838

[vivaregina]

met a wonderful chap, Murray, with another pair of everests, hope he will post something here about his set up.

[vivaregina]

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=111425.0

More is more.

[JBLAddict]

guess when you have crazy stupid money, you can do crazy stupid sh*t :blink:

another example
http://www.islandmix.com/backchat/f6/car-solid-silver-105183/

[Valentin]

:blink::blink::crying:

If he wanted mode control he would have been beter off with 4 s1s ex subs an a sedec 4500 unit

[4313B]

More is more.The designer of the Everest II didn't seem too impressed. He asked me if it was photoshopped.

Obviously people can do whatever they want (and quite often do, lol) but that's a whole chunk of change to be turning upsidedown and stacking. To each their own.

[Guido]

The designer of the Everest II didn't seem too impressed.

I bet!

[badman]

The designer of the Everest II didn't seem too impressed. He asked me if it was photoshopped.

Obviously people can do whatever they want (and quite often do, lol) but that's a whole chunk of change to be turning upsidedown and stacking. To each their own.

Was it made clear to him that he only was using the bass drivers? There's a lot to be said for multilocating bass.....

And agreed- absurdly pricey way of doing it.

[Guido]

Was it made clear to him that he only was using the bass drivers?

Even better. The 476Be and 045Be should then be partet out ;)

[Titanium Dome]

Even better. The 476Be and 045Be should then be partet out ;)


...to me.

[4313B]

Even better. The 476Be and 045Be should then be partet out ;)


...to me.:rotfl:



BTW - I did get the 476Be EDS that you asked for Guido but there isn't one for the 045Be. I'll try and post the EDS tomorrow or Friday along with the remarks about the 045Be.

I also received the engineering drawings for the 1500AL frame that can be modified for the C16R1501AL-2 kit (all the other various kits fit without modification). If you're interested I'll send the information to you. It will require you to machine the 1500AL frames but JBL says that is very doable (it takes DIY to another level). :p

I'll probably just wait until the drivers become available over the counter, especially since the recone kits don't appear to be available in North America.

I would be pleasantly surprised if JBL didn't price the 1501AL-2 really high.

[Rippy]

Was it made clear to him that he only was using the bass drivers? There's a lot to be said for multilocating bass.....

And agreed- absurdly pricey way of doing it.

Yes, yes it is absurdly pricey way of doing it; until you realize that 1) you can't get the woofer alone, 2) it's a MUCH cheaper solution than his other speakers were. The sale of his Utopias, at a loss no less, paid for both sets of Everest's with enough left over for another pair of 28B's for...some reason. Oh, right, the bi and di pole experiments later on. Maybe, if I can peel the client away from this solution long enough to try it out.

[Rippy]

The designer of the Everest II didn't seem too impressed. He asked me if it was photoshopped.

Obviously people can do whatever they want (and quite often do, lol) but that's a whole chunk of change to be turning upsidedown and stacking. To each their own.

Well, we wanted a constant directivity platform of the highest quality, and the single pair was exactly that; except that he was NOT getting the sound stage HEIGHT he was used to. He wanted that, and wanted to stay with the same layout, and to have spare Be drivers since JBL doesn't seem to want to carry those in stock. As in, we are NOT using the horn drivers in the upper unit.

The mode cancellation was a happy side effect, and with the power of the XTA unit at my disposal, I could do some very fine tuning on time delays, FR, active crossover, and so on. I was planning on using some sub woofers in an active cancellation array, but it's no longer necessary.

Cost is not an issue because I have gotten him to sell off things like $100k Transparent Audio cables, $20k worth of individual "audiophile" power filters (cost less to install separate lab-grade power panel with pedigreed balancing transformer for the entire room), Halcro monoblocks, and a host of stupid expensive, questionable quality, gear.

What we have now is a floor to ceiling sense of sound stage, as he wanted, with the JBL dynamics and in-room frequency control. The eq solution, combined with the active xover and time delays, gives us a delicacy of touch on strings and pianos, while also having enormous bottom-end power and speed. It is subjectively faster now than the single-pair setup was, as one would expect with active cancellation. What's not to like there?

[Guido]

BTW - I did get the 476Be EDS that you asked for Guido but there isn't one for the 045Be. I'll try and post the EDS tomorrow or Friday along with the remarks about the 045Be.

Cool! Thank you.




I also received the engineering drawings for the 1500AL frame that can be modified for the C16R1501AL-2 kit (all the other various kits fit without modification). If you're interested I'll send the information to you. It will require you to machine the 1500AL frames but JBL says that is very doable (it takes DIY to another level). .

That would be interesting although I'm very very pleased with my Everest clone as is. But one never knows ;)
You should have my email somewhere.




I'll probably just wait until the drivers become available over the counter, especially since the recone kits don't appear to be available in North America.

I would be pleasantly surprised if JBL didn't price the 1501AL-2 really high.

Over the counter? Hmmm.... Are there any changes in thinking of component sales? :bouncy:

[4313B]

What's not to like there?I get the impression that it is the visual horror of it that stops most people cold.

Obviously there is going to be a certain number of people that aren't bothered at all about the visual aspect and they will concentrate primarily on the technical aspect. For most people though, I suspect a veil would solve the issue. And then there are a few people that could never wrap their heads around flipping Everest II's and stacking them. Those people could never be allowed a look behind the veil.But I doubt you really need to justify anything.

If the client is happy, and nobody dies because of it, that's all that matters.
Over the counter? Hmmm.... Are there any changes in thinking of component sales? :bouncy:Highly doubtful. I think this will be a one of a kind situation primarily driven by people who already paid their sixty grand and would like the option of upgrading their investment. While you and I see that as an obvious thing, there are evidently a few people at JBL who just don't get it... :screwy:

[hlaari]

Are recone kit for 1501Al-1 and 1501Al-2 going to be available
will the new kit fit in the 1500Al driver

[Rippy]

I get the impression that it is the visual horror of it that stops most people cold.

Obviously there is going to be a certain number of people that aren't bothered at all about the visual aspect and they will concentrate primarily on the technical aspect. For most people though, I suspect a veil would solve the issue. And then there are a few people that could never wrap their heads around flipping Everest II's and stacking them. Those people could never be allowed a look behind the veil.But I doubt you really need to justify anything.

If the client is happy, and nobody dies because of it, that's all that matters.Highly doubtful. I think this will be a one of a kind situation primarily driven by people who already paid their sixty grand and would like the option of upgrading their investment. While you and I see that as an obvious thing, there are evidently a few people at JBL who just don't get it... :screwy:


I have to agree that the WAF is pretty minimal on an Everest Stack. Lucky for him, no wife has ever told him what he can do in "his" room. He is an old-school man. Remember when the men made the speaker choice? So, so long ago......

[4313B]

I have to agree that the WAF is pretty minimal on an Everest Stack. Lucky for him, no wife has ever told him what he can do in "his" room. He is an old-school man. Remember when the men made the speaker choice? So, so long ago......WAF??? The only negative comments I've heard were from guys.

Like I said, not everyone is going to like it and it doesn't matter because they don't have to like it. The guy footing the bill is the only one who has to be pleased.

[4313B]

Are recone kits for 1501Al-1 and 1501Al-2 going to be available?

Will the new kit fit in the 1500Al driverThe only cone kits that are “exchangeable” are the foam/rubber half roll assemblies.

Example, you can use the new 1501AL-1 kit in older 1500AL hardware. I would recommend this actually, since it is easier than modifying frames for the 1501AL-2 kit.

The new 1501AL-2 cloth edge is unique and large enough to need a modified frame for additional clearance.

The various kits are listed in the first drawing. :)

Additional information:

It is not possible to put the 1501AL-2 software (cone-kit) into the existing 1500AL hardware.

However, there are options:

1) Remove 1500AL frame and install the 1501AL-2 frame p/n 250-0274-002 (see attached), which has angled cut on frame inner diameter to allow extra clearance for cloth surround (during inward displacement). Good luck with this option!

2) Modify existing 1500AL frame by removing frame material for same angle cut/diameter to allow clearance for cloth edge (see drawing for dimensions – essentially flush with existing angled wall). This is a very achievable option!

3) Then you would use cone kit p/n C16R1501AL-2 and install using typical procedure.

[Rippy]

WAF??? The only negative comments I've heard were from guys.

Like I said, not everyone is going to like it and it doesn't matter because they don't have to like it. The guy footing the bill is the only one who has to be pleased.

I was not referring to the comments here, but merely acknowledging that most guys would NEVER get such a thing past their significant-other.

That said, you are quite correct. What the client wants, the client gets, and it is a great thing when it actually turns out well. Even more so when one learns a great deal from the project.

[Brian DK]

Change value of R8 reisitor from 3 Ohm to 2.7 Ohm to lower the brightness.
As recommended by Mr. G.T.

54734

Do anybody know the Physical size of the 2.7 ohm resistor??

[Brian DK]

Do anybody know the Physical size of the 2.7 ohm resistor??

And again.. Why a lower resistor to lower the output level?
Should it not be a resistor with higher value.?

[ivica]

And again.. Why a lower resistor to lower the output level?
Should it not be a resistor with higher value.?

Hi Brain DK,

The influence of the 'shunt-resistor' can be calculate using the following formulas:

if with Ro we denote 'serial resistor' and with Rs we denote shunt resistor, and if with Rd we denote the driver resistance the
the voltage response Av on the driver (neglecting ALL real and equivalent capacitors and inductors) would be:

Av = 1 / [ 1 + Ro*( 1/Rd +1/Rs)]

so from here as Rs become smaller 1/Rs become LARGER, so the products Ro*( 1/Rd +1/Rs) become larger, and Av become smaller.

Such formula become much more complicate if other elements of the network are included, especially if equivalent impedance and the response of the driver are included too. In such situations some computer programs has to be used..

regards
Ivica

[vivaregina]

For those who have been reducing the output of the lower bass woofer on the Pass xvr1 crossover.... I was forwarded this from the great master.

2nd order. You need to set the second bank of the crossover to X1 and Out, the slope switch to 6/12 and set the Filter Q switch to L
There are 3 configurations to try.

Config #1 is 106 Hz, 106 Hz and X1
Config #2 is 106 Hz, 133 Hz and X1
Config #3 is 133 Hz, 133 Hz and X1

In all cases, the LF1 voltage and LF2 voltage should be the same (at about 50 Hz). Adjusting the roll off point of the outer woofer will adjust the mid-bass region which has been too prominent when the woofers were set to the same voltage. I think one of these three settings should work much better.

You can try the Filter Q at M, but I don’t think it will work as well as L. You want to concentrate on the main crossover point for setting the relative levels of the HF and inboard woofer and then play with the settings for the outboard woofer. I think the output level will change slightly with each different configuration, but not a lot. Big changes come if you change the Q or the degree of crossover (6, 12, 18 dB)

[vivaregina]

Pic

[vivaregina]

I went for config 1

[jbljfan]

Thank you for posting the updated information.

[Doctor_Electron]

In short, I stopped thinking about the audio and really enjoyed the music.

Try the Miles Davis Kind of Blue, first track, 8th minute, when the bass starts playing a little rhythm.

My ears are bleeding but I can hear everything.

Ear bleeding could be caused in part by listening at 25,000' + altitude.

I'd bet you had some help from Sherpas in transport and positioning.

Since you mentioned Miles, I would like to suggest a piece of music that think you would really dig.

From the Billy Cobham LP/CD "Warning", the tune "Mozaik".

I have it on the CD GRP Digital Sampler #2 (GRP Jazz). Catalog# GRP-D-9529 - Produced by Dave Grusin and Larry Rosen.

Don't know if it is available on Vinyl. The sound quality, dynamics et al. on the CD are outstanding ++

All tunes on this disc are great Jazz.

I have a .wav of Mozaik, 54.4 MB, if there is a way to get it to you via the 'net. My burner won't burn! What a burn!

Regards, -de-

[vivaregina]

Below is the latest clarification from our man. This is the one you should follow.

For each pole (1 thru 4) there are 2 out settings. On poles 2, 3 and 4, you should select both out positions for the two jumpers.

On pole 1, select the frequency (106) and X1 which is the multiplier. In this case 106 Hz x1 = 106 Hz.

[vivaregina]

Previously I did not match the voltage on the lower woofer to the mid woofer as it was too much bass on 133 and 106. It was on around 50%.

I am trying to match the voltage now, and having tried every setting on the way down, I ended up with the inside of the xvr-1 is on 59 for pole 1 & 2.

Have fun trying yourself as everything is easily adjustable on the xo.

[Brian DK]

Kiwame Carbon Film resistor.
The sound is smoother, less nervous around the 2k Hz region.
Previously it was a little more metallic, more glare.
I was skeptical before the change, but I heard it on the 2nd pair, and went for it.
I would say the change improved the character of the speakers.

54765

very interesting..
will the horn Sound even more smoot, if all the
Resistors ind the horn X-over is changed to Kiwarme Carbon film?

[vivaregina]

In case anyone want to upgrade their network to 67000 as a diy build.

If you keep your original set, you can compare.

[4313B]

The good news is that, according to some folks, you don't need to charge-couple the capacitors so you can DIY a pair of DD67000 networks that are substantially less expensive. ;)

[vivaregina]

You mean take out the diodes !

[grumpy]

Diodes? We don't need no stinkin' diodes! :D

l'm assuming there was intended humor a couple of posts back...

If someone carves up networks in a factory DD67000 expecting improvments
they may deserve what they get.

[4313B]

If someone carves up networks in a factory DD67000 expecting improvments
they may deserve what they get.I'm pretty sure that the price of admission keeps the riff-raff out?


You mean take out the diodes !More than just the diodes and I won't detail the rest given that charge-coupling absolutely makes a positive difference despite all the flak from the naysayers sporting obviously compromised auditory mechanisms.

[Mr. Widget]

....sporting obviously compromised auditory mechanisms.Oh! Where can I get those for my system? :applaud:


Widget

[vivaregina]

LF1 24db slope
Pole 1 - 88Hz - Q at M

Pole 2 - 88Hz - Q at M
Pole 3 - 106Hz - Q at M

Pole 4 - 106Hz - Q at M

LF2 24db slope

Pole 1 - 530Hz - Q at M

Pole 2 - 660Hz - Q at M
Pole 3 - 750Hz - Q at H

Pole 4 - 750Hz - Q at H

High Pass 12 db slope

Pole 1 - 750Hz - Q at H

Pole 2 - 750Hz - Q at H

[Brian DK]

How did you get the woofers out, without damage.?
Did you lay the speakers on the back, or? 🙈🙈

[vivaregina]

It is a 2 man job in my case.
secret is to undo the top screw last
the bottom will pop out enough for a hold
the 2nd woofer is easier as you can hold it from the inside.

oh...please remember to remove your watch...otherwise it will be rearranged internally by the magnet

[Brian DK]

It is a 2 man job in my case.
secret is to undo the top screw last
the bottom will pop out enough for a hold
the 2nd woofer is easier as you can hold it from the inside.

oh...please remember to remove your watch...otherwise it will be rearranged internally by the magnet

Aha, that was a good trick 😄
I'll try that Way. 👍

[vivaregina]

After so many years of fiddling with the overlapping bass settings...finally I decided to just chop the xo for both woofers...splitting the work load.

This was partly inspired after listening to VOX Olympian including chatting with a delightful Mr. Kevin Scott, and Avantgard horns (with dsp) recently. Both systems with different philosophies have a different bass xo...so I thought...sacrilege....should I move away from GT's idea for the overlapping bass....

you might consider trying it....and afterwards you can always rejoin the congregation.


https://www.livingvoice.co.uk/

[Mr. Widget]

How did you get the woofers out, without damage.?
Did you lay the speakers on the back, or? ����I think the best way is to lay the speaker on it's back which can be done solo, but not recommended. Two of the eight woofer mounting holes are threaded. JBL uses these with threaded tools to handle the woofers during installation. You can screw in a pair of bolts into these after removing the trim rings and the rest of the eight mounting bolts. Then you can then fairly easily lift the woofers out by grabbing the two bolts.



oh...please remember to remove your watch...otherwise it will be rearranged internally by the magnetUnlike their ferrite brothers, the design of the magnet return circuit of JBL alnico magnet woofers is inherently self shielding so there is very little stray magnetic field. No worries for your watch. ;)


Widget

[Brian DK]

Kiwame Carbon Film resistor.
The sound is smoother, less nervous around the 2k Hz region.
Previously it was a little more metallic, more glare.
I was skeptical before the change, but I heard it on the 2nd pair, and went for it.
I would say the change improved the character of the speakers.

54765

Do you have any idea/opinion, on the filter would
benefit from changing all resistens, to Kiwame Carbon Film
resistors?

[vivaregina]

https://diyaudiostore.com/products/diy-biamp-6-24-crossover

should be interesting

[Ian Mackenzie]

For those who want to build a kit it’s a possibility. It comes back to the old chestnut of the user having to figure out the adjustments which for a precise system like the Everest would be problematic. You can’t do that with a single turn trim pot.

I have been using a similar two way prototype crossover for a few of years and it works fine as a rudimentary design for a diy kit.

[GeeGee]

Hi everyone!
I am trying to get the last missing parts to be able to start putting together my Everest 66000 project. I am missing one critical part, the curved bit with the dual bass reflex ports in the back. Anyone got a spare or drawings so I could try and make one. Sorry if posting in the wrong thread or so, I'm rather new to this forum.

Cheers!
Gee

[Odd]

You will find some info here, see from post 447
Hifisentralen (https://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/threads/terjes-wall-of-sound.62948/page-12)

(The page is in Norwegian)

[GeeGee]

You will find some info here, see from post 447
Hifisentralen (https://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/threads/terjes-wall-of-sound.62948/page-12)

(The page is in Norwegian)

Wow!! Thanks Odd!!!!! Now hoping someone would give me a hand making those :)