PDA

View Full Version : Help please with Vintage JBL 2225H speakers



maxjr
08-23-2011, 05:30 PM
Hi Everyone!

I'm looking to purchase a pair of Used Vintage JBL 2225 speakers. I'm trying to get into JBL pro speakers, and going used is the most affordable, but scariest route. This seems to be the best place for JBL advice as there are many knowledgeable JBL authorities here :D. Here are some pictures of the speakers I'm looking to purchase:

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/cpf_maxspeeds/misc004.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/cpf_maxspeeds/misc001.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/cpf_maxspeeds/misc006.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/cpf_maxspeeds/misc005.jpg

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/cpf_maxspeeds/misc003.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/cpf_maxspeeds/misc002.jpg

They both have baskets, motors, cones, and surrounds in excellent condition. There is no scrubbing or scratching of the voice coil when pushing the cone down. They came out of a theater and have been used in a garage system for the past 2 years.

They appear to be two different generations due to differences in their vent and wire terminals (is this correct?). Also, the one on the left looks like a JBL authentic recone. Can anyone verify if the one on the left is an authentic JBL recone and the one on the right an all original 2225H? I scoured the web looking for a database or picture gallery that could tell me the history, but came up short. I'm so glad I found this great forum!

Also, how will these two sound as a stereo pair for midwoofer duties (they'll be used from 60Hz - 1200Hz)? Will there be a noticeable difference between the two due to the reconing?

Also, one speaker measures 6.1 ohm and the other measures 6.7 ohm across the terminals. Will this cause any noticeable differences?
Thanks in advance for all your help!

Eaulive
08-23-2011, 07:29 PM
Hi!

I just went with a friend to do exactly that.
The different baskets are due to different manufacturing dates, somewhere at the end of the 80's (I think) they changed from the metal individual spring loaded terminals to the plastic block.
The main difference with those baskets is that when mounted, the two little black leads on the front of the cone are between the mounting holes (older basket) or aligned with a mounting hole (newer basket) No difference in sound.

The cones are more tricky, usually an original recone has hand markings on the back of the cone saying C8R2225, along with dates and signature of the worker.
It also has a imprited white number that read 76076.
It has also a white sticker with a serial number (if it hasn't fall off)

By the pictures you provide they _seem_ like originals, although from completely different eras.
DCR should be around 6.3 ohms according to JBL datasheet, when you measure them be sure to have them lay cone down on a flat surface to seal the air and to avoid cone movement. This will provide a true reading.
Also short test your leads to make sure you get 0 ohms and when measuring the speaker, insert the leads in the connectors to ensure a good contact

If you want to have an idea of how they match, compare them with a pink noise at low level.
This is quite revealing if you have a good ear, listen to the noise and A/B them quickly at the same distance and angle.
There should not be any difference in level but sometimes a slight difference in tone if the cones are from two very distant batches or age.

Aply pressure on one side of the cone close to the outer suspention to detect rubbing, do that at 0, 90, 180 and 270 arount the cone, this momentarily bends the VC former and if rubbing is present, you will notice it almost instantly at a specific angle.

Good luck!

Lee in Montreal
08-23-2011, 07:53 PM
Also, how will these two sound as a stereo pair for midwoofer duties (they'll be used from 60Hz - 1200Hz)? Will there be a noticeable difference between the two due to the reconing?

1200Hz is perhaps stretching this woofer's capacity a bit. If you had the guitar driver with aluminum dome, then you could get 1200Hz. I wouldn't use the 2225 any higher than 500Hz, at most.

Allanvh5150
08-23-2011, 08:16 PM
1200Hz is perhaps stretching this woofer's capacity a bit. If you had the guitar driver with aluminum dome, then you could get 1200Hz. I wouldn't use the 2225 any higher than 500Hz, at most.

The spec sheet says 1200 maximum recomended crossover point.

Allan.

Lee in Montreal
08-23-2011, 08:31 PM
The spec sheet says 1200 maximum recomended crossover point.

Allan.

Well, JBL also recommends to cross a 2405 at 7Khz, and this is not the best. ;)
I (as my personal opinion) find 1200Hz too high for a 15" driver. But if OP has an active crossover, I guess he can try many configurations.

Eaulive
08-23-2011, 08:33 PM
1200Hz is perhaps stretching this woofer's capacity a bit. If you had the guitar driver with aluminum dome, then you could get 1200Hz. I wouldn't use the 2225 any higher than 500Hz, at most.

I tend to agree for home use, but it's often crossed over at 1k and 1,2k in two ways SR applications, which is for what it was designed.

maxjr
08-23-2011, 09:04 PM
Hi!

I just went with a friend to do exactly that.
The different baskets are due to different manufacturing dates, somewhere at the end of the 80's (I think) they changed from the metal individual spring loaded terminals to the plastic block.
The main difference with those baskets is that when mounted, the two little black leads on the front of the cone are between the mounting holes (older basket) or aligned with a mounting hole (newer basket) No difference in sound.

The cones are more tricky, usually an original recone has hand markings on the back of the cone saying C8R2225, along with dates and signature of the worker.
It also has a imprited white number that read 76076.
It has also a white sticker with a serial number (if it hasn't fall off)

By the pictures you provide they _seem_ like originals, although from completely different eras.
DCR should be around 6.3 ohms according to JBL datasheet, when you measure them be sure to have them lay cone down on a flat surface to seal the air and to avoid cone movement. This will provide a true reading.
Also short test your leads to make sure you get 0 ohms and when measuring the speaker, insert the leads in the connectors to ensure a good contact

If you want to have an idea of how they match, compare them with a pink noise at low level.
This is quite revealing if you have a good ear, listen to the noise and A/B them quickly at the same distance and angle.
There should not be any difference in level but sometimes a slight difference in tone if the cones are from two very distant batches or age.

Aply pressure on one side of the cone close to the outer suspention to detect rubbing, do that at 0, 90, 180 and 270 arount the cone, this momentarily bends the VC former and if rubbing is present, you will notice it almost instantly at a specific angle.

Good luck!

Eualive, thank you so much! This is a lot of great information. I'll be purchasing these speakers over the net, as there is not much of a supply of them locally (i live in Hawaii). According to the owner, the back of the cone has initials "DSR" and date "7/1/03". It also has the 76076 stamp and some writing that he made out to be "64M 2225H"

According to the pictures, does the right 2225H look all original? Are there any tell tale signs/markings of an all original cone?

Unfortunately, I won't be able to actually listen to them or compare their pink noise. I'll ask the owner to measure the resistance again (please excuse my ignorance, but what is DCR short for). If they still turn out to be 6.1 and 6.7 ohm, will this affect their sound together while used in 2 channel stereo?

I'm not sure how to proceed. Would you guys recommend purchasing the newer one over the recone? Or visa versa? Thanks again for all of your help!

Eaulive
08-23-2011, 09:23 PM
Eualive, thank you so much! This is a lot of great information. I'll be purchasing these speakers over the net, as there is not much of a supply of them locally (i live in Hawaii). According to the owner, the back of the cone has initials "DSR" and date "7/1/03". It also has the 76076 stamp and some writing that he made out to be "64M 2225H"

According to the pictures, does the right 2225H look all original? Are there any tell tale signs/markings of an all original cone?

Unfortunately, I won't be able to actually listen to them or compare their pink noise. I'll ask the owner to measure the resistance again (please excuse my ignorance, but what is DCR short for). If they still turn out to be 6.1 and 6.7 ohm, will this affect their sound together while used in 2 channel stereo?

I'm not sure how to proceed. Would you guys recommend purchasing the newer one over the recone? Or visa versa? Thanks again for all of your help!

DCR stands for DC resistance, as opposed to AC resistance where the reactance come into play to create impedance.

The difference you see in DCR is likely due to a large span in manufacturing dates. On 8 recent cones from the same batch of C8R2225 that I received lately, I remember there was also some discrepancies, I would not worry about it too much if they are a couple of years apart, they are still within specs... each at different extremes.

Like I said, from the pictures they both look original, but without actually having them in my hands, I can not be 100% sure ;)

Too many things to check, solders, tinsel leads, brass eyelets, spider, etc...

maxjr
08-23-2011, 11:03 PM
DCR stands for DC resistance, as opposed to AC resistance where the reactance come into play to create impedance.

The difference you see in DCR is likely due to a large span in manufacturing dates. On 8 recent cones from the same batch of C8R2225 that I received lately, I remember there was also some discrepancies, I would not worry about it too much if they are a couple of years apart, they are still within specs... each at different extremes.

Like I said, from the pictures they both look original, but without actually having them in my hands, I can not be 100% sure ;)

Too many things to check, solders, tinsel leads, brass eyelets, spider, etc...

Thank you so much!

In a stereo setup where these will be used for mid woofer duties, would it be better / more ideal if they were from the same generation with similar cones and closely matched DCR (say 6.7 and 6.8 ohm)?

1audiohack
08-24-2011, 08:13 AM
Unless one of them has been beat to death and or you have a well behaved symmetrical listening room I doubt there will be any noticeable difference.

Allanvh5150
08-24-2011, 01:38 PM
Well, JBL also recommends to cross a 2405 at 7Khz, and this is not the best. ;)
I (as my personal opinion) find 1200Hz too high for a 15" driver. But if OP has an active crossover, I guess he can try many configurations.


I thought that was the lowest recommended crossover point...

Allan.

Lee in Montreal
08-24-2011, 01:41 PM
I thought that was the lowest recommended crossover point...

Allan.

Correct. The same way that JBL recommend 1200Hz ss the highest crossing point on a 2225. Not necessarely the best sounding for me. Which was my point.. :D

maxjr
08-24-2011, 03:11 PM
Well, JBL also recommends to cross a 2405 at 7Khz, and this is not the best. ;)
I (as my personal opinion) find 1200Hz too high for a 15" driver. But if OP has an active crossover, I guess he can try many configurations.

Crossover point may be a little lower than 1200Hz. I will be using passive crossovers. I'm looking to build Wayne Parham's 4Pi speakers. Anyone have experience with them? :D

spkrman57
08-25-2011, 09:22 AM
I use the JBL 2226 and 2446(w/Be phrams) crossed over @ approx 1600 hz with no problem!

I use low-powered tube amps and my horn is a Edgar round tractix instead of Pi's recommended 1" compression driver and H290 horn.

The 2225 should have no problem reaching 1200hz unless you are using high powered amps and playing loudly in which I would crossover @ 800hz and limit the bottom end to 40hz with a sub-sonic filter.

Just my 2 cents worth of course.

Regards, Ron