L200b

[majick47]

Last week I purchased a pair of JBL speakers, the seller had advertised them as "L200". When I went to look at them I found that they were the L200B model. They had been collecting dust in his family room and were a little rough but the price seemed to be right, $300. I listened to them and the horns and woofers worked and according to the seller the woofer foam had been replaced four years ago. One speaker has damage to the grill frame and a couple of noticable chips to the veneer. My qustion is considering the price I paid would it be worth it to have the cabinets restored by a professional?

[Don McRitchie]

The "B" is definitely the more desirable of the L200 series. $300 is a bargain as they are worth at least $1000. I would use this price as a benchmark to determine whether the costs of professional refinishing are worth it. In other words, if you can get it done for less than $700, I would go for it.

[majick47]

Don I appreciate the reply re restoring the JBL L200B speakers and I'm fortunate to have a furniture restorer about a half mile away and plan on getting an estimate soon. I might not of described the damage clearly, some of the trim pieces around the front edges of the two speaker cabinets is damaged/missing and the veneer is chipped off in a couple of spots. The speakers have window screens with black grill cloth held on with velcro strips. Also saw a tag inside one of the ports with a radio stations call letters printed on it. The speakers also have the original JBL tags saying the cabinets are finished in American walnut. Some of the screws for the 15" woofer don't look original and one of the spring loaded speaker wire "caps" is missing. Any recommended sources for the small parts? Thanks, Rich.

[Robh3606]

If those are the small ones that won't accept any thing bigger than 16 ga?? Upgrade those damn cheesy terminals to good 5 way binding posts.

Rob

[4313B]

North Creek (http://www.northcreekmusic.com/) has the Lexan (http://www.northcreekmusic.com/ACCESSORIES.html) 5-way posts as found on the 250Ti.

[majick47]

Appreciate the suggestions and about North Creek re updating the speaker terminals, not expensive and a big improvement over the tiny factory posts. Are their any other easy to do upgrades while the cabinets are being restored and all the components have been removed? I'v read that some owners placed material on the horns to prevent ringing, would this be worthwhile? Rich.

[Mr. Widget]

Check out this thread.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2960

The proper replacement diaphragms cost more than you paid for your speakers, but it will make a big difference. With the 2421B diaphragms, JBL's recommended replacement, you will also extend the highs.

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Damping the horns probably won't do much, but it can't hurt.

Check out this thread.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2960

The proper replacement diaphragms cost more than you paid for your speakers, but it will make a big difference. With the 2421B diaphragms, JBL's recommended replacement, you will also extend the highs.

Widget

[majick47]

Mr. Widget I'm taking your suggestion re replacing the horn diaphrams under consideration. Still working on cleaning the L200B speakers of years of dirt/grime, had the 15" woofers (136A) out and the date noted for new foam/cones was April'04, not four years ago. My novice eyes didn't see too much out of the ordinary other then some missing insulation from the top of the left cabinet. The horns looked good to my untrained eye, are they the LE85? The crossover is the LX200b and in general everything looks stock to me. The right speaker has less volume output then the left speaker. I double checked all my settings on the amp/preamp etc and they were all correct. The crossover control on the right speaker is "rough" and wonder if this is causing the loss of volume. Thinking of spraying the crossover control with contact cleaner to see if that will correct the problem. I adjusted the balance on my preamp to compensate for less volume in the right speaker and the results were nothing short of amazing. The music came to life like it never did before on my a/d/s speakers and the "live" recordings transplant you into the audience, stayed up late a couple of night listening to a number of old cds that took on a new life with the L220b speakers. Rich.

[majick47]

Latest update re the progress of my L200b speakers. One of my LE85 drivers was missing the red seals and on inspection found an aftermarket diaphram. The other LE85 driver red seals are still intact and have the original JBL diaphram. After doing an a/b comparison I'm certain the JBL diaphram is noticably smoother sounding then the aftermarket. Called my local JBL pro shop and inquired re JBL oem diaphram (2421b) as recommended by Mr. Widget. I was quoted a price of $225 and he would not charge for labor and it would also include a JBL warranty on the part as long as he did the install. The JBL tech mentioned he owned a set of L100 and seemed real interested in assisting me get my L200b back in shape. For now I'm going to replace the LE85 aftermarket diaphram and again a/b the speakers to see if their is a difference between the old and new oem diaphrams and if I hear a difference I'll replace the second (original JBL) diaphram. Right move/wrong move?

[Mr. Widget]

Assuming your sealed LE85 had been babied or better yet hardly used there would still be the issue that JBL no longer makes the LE85 diaphragm. They make the improved, yes it is an improvement, D16R2421 diaphragm which is the one you ordered. So even if your original LE85 were as new, you would hear a difference.

Now since the one driver has been repaired, that would lead me to believe that the remaining one has been driven hard.

Short story, I bet you will need to replace both diaphragms... no harm in giving it a try though.

Widget

[majick47]

Mr. Widget I'm sure it is wishful thinking on my part that I will hear no difference between the old and new oem JBL diaphrams. Your suggestion to replace both diaphrams is not taken lightly. When I call the tech back tomorrow I'll ask him to double the order and replace both diaphrams. Had a feeling this was going to get expensive but a quality sound system doesn't come cheap either. Re planned for the future 2405 tweeters will they also require new diaphrams if they still have the original oem diaphrams and will they be equally expensive to replace? Also when everything is upgraded will it be reflected not only in the performance but will this be a "sound" investment in $$$?

[sonofagun]

Are you going to stick with the cloth grille coverings or would you like replacement foam grilles in the original style to fully restore them?

[majick47]

Sonofagun I have seen the posts re the foam grill covers and they look terrific. Traded my original cabinets that needed a serious rehab for another set that is in very nice condition. My biggest consideration is the CATS. I kept the old metal screens from the original set as insurance and so far they have ignored the speakers. Long run I'm contemplating having custom covers made to protect them cats, sun etc. The grill foam is on the list along with original JBL badges to get my L200b back to it's original appearance. I'll contact you as soon as I have the other items completed and ready for the finishing touches. Also thought of getting black plate glass tops for the cabinets similar to the L65/L300.

[John]

Sonofagon are you saying you have figured out the dimensions and specs to reproduce those. I might be intrested in a pair?:)

[sonofagun]

I have made these in the past, but no longer have the specs handy.

Basically all I need are the dimensions for the grille (L x W x thickness) - the pictures in the library show the cutting pattern of mutiple vertical grooves needed.

Still trying to get moved however - any volunteer helpers????

[majick47]

Sonofagun when I get home this evening I'll measure the original JBL aluminum screens that came with my L200b cabinets. I also have a set of excellent black cloth grills with wood frames but after seeing the pictures of your foam grills the most difficult choice would be which color, I'm strongly leaning towards the JBL blue and second choice would be the tan/brown. Looking back at your prior posts the price appeared to be $110 shipped, please advise if that is the correct amount and your current mailing info since you said you are in the process of moving.

[majick47]

The foam grills that SONOFAGUN sells would not be complete unless they have the original JBL badges to install on my L200b. I have seen JBL badges pictured on Ebay and was wondering how they were attached to the foam grills? Also does any board member have a spare set for sale?

[sonofagun]

$150 pair - same address - brown or blue. Badges can be attached in several ways - glue, velcro, posts.

[majick47]

I measured my original OEM/JBL metal screens that still have the dried out glue from where the factory glued on the foam. The dimensions of the metal grills are 22 1/4" wide, 28 1/2" long, the thickness of the foam is a minimum of 1 1/4" to 1 1/3" which should bring the foam level with the edge of the front frame of the cabinets. It's difficult to tell the depth from the original catalog photos but it appears to be level with edge of the front cabinet frame. Also if SONOFAGUN can make the foam grills with the multiple veritical grooves that would be terrific. I just got some original JBL badges that will make the grills look 100% original. Still havn't decided on the color yet, blue, brown or orange.

[sonofagun]

Thanks for dimensions - $150 pair in original striped design, brown, black, or blue only.

[Mr. Widget]

As I recall the foam on the L200s was very thin, maybe 1/2" thick. I also thought the frames were made of wood.

Widget

[majick47]

Mr. Widget the aluminum screens came with my first set f L200B cabinets,best I can tell they are original equipment other then the foam grill disintergrated long ago with only the dried glue left on the creens. They appear to be standard window screens. I'll look at the JBL catalog photos again to check the depth of the foam grills.

[Mr. Widget]

Those are not original. Many people have discovered that a standard window frame can be used as "replacement" grille. I have seen several sold on eBay with window screens. The originals are built up of wood and come almost all the way to the front lip of the enclosure with openings that correspond to the two side vents.

Widget

[majick47]

Mr. Widget I'll take your word for it that the aluminum screens are not original. I also have another set of grills that came with the second set of cabinets, these are black wood frames with black cloth and are in excellent condition. Hate to mess with these and will probably make copies of the wood frames and cover them with screening material and then attach the foam. I looked at a few photos of the L200b foam grills and my "guess" is that the foam might of been about 1" thick to allow enough foam material for the multiple vertical grooves.

[Robh3606]

They did make them with screens too. My friend had a pair of L200's and the foam was glued to what essentially was a window screen. They also made L88's grille covers that way.

Rob:)

[andresohc]

I have a pair of L200 cabs with what appear to be original screeens for the grill, foam long gone. I built new wood frames.

[Mr. Widget]

My only firsthand recollection of the foam grilles is from '79-'80. I remember being surprised at how thin the L200 foam was. The L100 foam was considerably thicker. I recall a black painted wood frame with sheer cloth similar to the L100s and the foam was stuck to the cloth. It may have been attached with velcro but I can't be sure.

Widget

[John]

I picked up a pair a while ago from a guy that bought them from the daughter of the origanal owner which was her dad. When he died she became the new custodian of the jbl,s and sold them to the fellow i bought them from. They also have the screens with the spots of dried glue jbl used to attach the foam grill. I have seen a few other pairs over the last 5 years and they all had the same setup.:confused:

[majick47]

Re the L200b foam grills and grill frames I appreciate all the responses and hope to restore my grills as close as possible to the original design. As to the depth of the foam it might have to be left to SONOFAGUNS judgement to make the foam as thin as possible and still allow enough for the vertical grooves. After studying pictures of the L200/L200b and measuring my cabinets grill frame 1" or less appears to be the original depth of the foam. I'm going to hold off a little longer to see if by chance an original set of foam grills survived and measurements can be taken of the depth.

[sonofagun]

I remember one or two (?) customers who sent me the window screens to put new grilles on, so maybe seems these were OEM at least some time anyway.

The L100 always had the wood frames which I have the
design/construction specs for.

Minimum 1" thick foam is needed to effectively cut the L200 pattern into.

[sonofagun]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
My only firsthand recollection of the foam grilles is from '79-'80. I remember being surprised at how thin the L200 foam was.

Many times when that early foam aged, it tended to thin in addition to crumbling depending on the environment it was exposed to.

[Mr. Widget]

Thinking back on it I believe the pair I was checking out were original early L200s. I have no idea if later L200s and L200Bs might have used the window screens. Seems really cheesy to me.

Hey Sonofagun, I do think your L100s quadrex grilles look fantastic, but I would be concerned about the absorptive properties of the foam for anything other than a decorative grille. Along those lines Joseph D'Appolito in his reviews of loudspeakers always measures the response with and without grilles. In every case the response is degraded with grilles in place so maybe it is only a matter of degree. I would intuitively think thinner foam is better than thicker foam.

As far as the thin foam being due to age the speakers were in perfect condition and less than 10 years old. I don't think the foam was degraded. (yet) :(

Widget

[sonofagun]

I have had acoustic testing of my foam done in the past with favorable results. Seemed that sonic transmission was little effected until thickness was well over 1".

I would be glad to send some samples to anyone here properly equipped to run tests and post the results here.

Some here have been using my grilles allready - perhaps they can comment on how or if sound was effected.

[gassy]

sonofagun,
Are you set up for business yet? I still want a set of grilles for the L100's I have.

[sonofagun]

Sorry - gonna be a month or so more.

[gassy]

OK, just checking in...

[mbottz]

I can verify that the window Screen frames are definately original. I sold stereo equipment in the 70's and got to set up the demo room as I was the manual labor for the shop. I clearly remember unboxing a set of new L-200's and hooking them up for the first time. They sounded incredible! I also rember upon taking the the grills off that I could not believe JBL would use a window screen frame to hold the foam grill for such an expensive speaker. But it sure did not keep them from selling.

MB