SAM1HF Schematic

[JuniorJBL]

Is it available?

It appears as though that the cd comp is part of the internal crossover.
Can anyone verify this?

[4313B]

Is it available?Nope!

We've been waiting for someone to reverse engineer it. Tag - you're it!


It appears as though that the cd comp is part of the internal crossover.
Can anyone verify this?Not until you run a voltage drive on the network. :D

[pos]

humm the 435Be is upside down! :barf:

[JuniorJBL]

Nope!

We've been waiting for someone to reverse engineer it. Tag - you're it!

Not until you run a voltage drive on the network. :D



Well ok then. 1........2..........;)

[grumpy]

Send me a pair, and I'll get right on it :)

(the real challenge would be persuading someone to disassemble
a working/warranteed unit ... if you didn't have that particular driver
and horn, why on earth would it be needed? other than as a design
example or out of curiosity)

[maxwedge]

humm the 435Be is upside down! :barf:
No it's not! That Be 45 deg to the right side! Upside down is 180 deg...:p

[4313B]

Send me a pair, and I'll get right on it :)

(the real challenge would be persuading someone to disassemble
a working/warranteed unit ... if you didn't have that particular driver
and horn, why on earth would it be needed? other than as a design
example or out of curiosity)Curiosity. I would expect that they simply copied Greg's 1400 Array schematic but it's possible they didn't. When I asked Greg years ago he didn't know.

[JeffW]

humm the 435Be is upside down! :barf:

Not only that, but it's a 435AL.

[JuniorJBL]

I will pull the crossover today and get pics/values and confirm weather this is the case or not.

[JuniorJBL]

Not only that, but it's a 435AL.


Yes it is.

[pos]

and no room for a 476Be with that inductor nearby :flamed:

[JeffW]

I will pull the crossover today and get pics/values and confirm weather this is the case or not.

Here's a link to the 1400 Array schematic, I bet they are pretty similar

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10643-1400-Array

[grumpy]

The component counts don't appear to match (L,C,R) vs. the 1400 schematic
(more caps and resistors visible on the SAM board), but it could still be close
or some elements paralleled.

Sound like Junior's got it covered, in any case :)

... and I type too slowly.

(http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10643-1400-Array&p=121868&viewfull=1#post121868)

[JuniorJBL]

The component counts don't appear to match (L,C,R) vs. the 1400 schematic
(more caps and resistors visible on the SAM board), but it could still be close
or some elements paralleled.

Sound like Junior's got it covered, in any case :)

1400 Schematic:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10643-1400-Array&p=121868&viewfull=1#post121868


My thought is that it would be almost the same maybe minus the high pass for the 435al since they use the synthesis electronics to do the other half of the crossover between the samlf and hf.:dont-know:

BTW I type even slower! :o:

[4313B]

My thought is that it would be almost the same maybe minus the high pass for the 435al since they use the synthesis electronics to do the other half of the crossover between the samlf and hf.:dont-know:Or the SAM12X

[Robh3606]

There might be resistor pad changes I doubt they would give up any SPL if they didn't have too. There was no conventional CD comp in the 1400 network just a 2K trap. It's going to be similar but I suspect different values with the highpass missing.

Rob:)

[JuniorJBL]

Some more pics. I stuck the LCR meter on the coils. Did not remove any components to get the measurements.
L3 and L4 look to be aprox 20awg and 18awg

[JuniorJBL]

Front of crossover with part placement.

[Robh3606]

It's a puzzle! What the heck is the 100uf for a safety highpass to protect the 435 when biamped?? I see the Imp network the network for the 045 a couple of pads and what I think are 2 notch filters on the 435. Other than that:blink::hmm:

If I get a chance I will play with it in LEAP. I have my 435AL measurements on the horn from when I did the Arrays.

Rob:)

[JuniorJBL]

It's a puzzle! What the heck is the 100uf for a safety highpass to protect the 435 when biamped??
I was wondering if that may be the case


If I get a chance I will play with it in LEAP. I have my 435AL measurements on the horn from when I did the Arrays.

Rob:)

Thanks Rob. Meantime I will continue to draw lines on paper and see what I come up with.

[Robh3606]

I was wondering if that may be the case


Look at the power ratings on the resistor pair right after them R3 R4 looks like it goes to ground through L2 R something?? We will figure it out, well maybe:applaud::confused::banghead:

Rob:)

[JuniorJBL]

How does this look. I do not have any version of SPICE so would someone mind putting this in to see if I am not completly crazy? :blink:

[Robh3606]

The Comp Network is across the 435 as well. I gotta go to the beach, it's a beautiful day here, if I get back early enough I will drop it inti LEAP tonight as see if it makes sense.

Rob:)

[JuniorJBL]

The Comp Network is across the 435 as well. I gotta go to the beach, it's a beautiful day here, if I get back early enough I will drop it inti LEAP tonight as see if it makes sense.

Rob:)

Thanks Rob! The beach sounds nice!:applaud:

Thanks to you as well Grumpy!!
I think in the mean time I will go dig out an amp and a crossover hummm better get the le14's out ...................................

[Robh3606]

It's looking kinda odd. Especially when you plug in a measurement on the horn. Here are are the Voltage drives into R loads at the driver impedences. Ignore the Ref Designation numbers as they won't make any sense as I used a previously loaded file so I wouldn't have to reload driver measurements. Does it look right to you??

Rob:)

[grumpy]

Given I used 8 ohms for the load and guessed
on inductor resistances, the dip/peak freqs and
levels seem within reason between simulation
methods. It would be better to get out of circuit
L values, but a measured xfer fcn using a
resistive load would work as well.

[JuniorJBL]

Thanks for doing that Rob.

It is time to get out the speakertester and figure out how to use it. I will install XP on my laptop this morning and get it up and running.

[4313B]

You might want to whip up yourself a pair of the 1400 Array crossovers as well and determine which you prefer. If you do that make them cc versions. It's definitely worth it.

I'd buy a couple of these networks myself if they were in stock but they aren't. MSRP on them is around $135 each. The 1400 Array networks (HF/UHF) are roughly half that price and out of stock as well.

The coil values and their DCR's have to be measured out of the circuit. Too bad JBL doesn't leave the stickers with that information on them. Those 5W 1ohm8 resistors might be 1.8 ohm instead of 1.0 ohm.

[grumpy]

Rob, check units on L2 and value of R4. A rerun with the rest of the circuit, 6ohms for the mid, 4 for uhf,
and a impedance magnitude sweep (using those resistive load values):

1.8 vs 1.0 lessens the 1.2KHz notch a little more than 1 dB in simulation.
(and I used DCR's appropriate for my guess on the wire gauge
for air-core inductors... which will be too high if there's a metal or ferrite core).

Updated plots with 1.8 vs 1.0 ohm resistors:

51523

[JuniorJBL]

1.8 vs 1.0 lessens the 1.2KHz notch a little more than 1 dB in simulation.
(and I used DCR's appropriate for my guess on the wire gauge
for air-core inductors... which will be too high if there's a metal or ferrite core).


No metal as far as I can see. (hole in all of them) on plastic bobins. Not sure I want to dissasemble but I just might.......... he says to himself "It's only one side per"

4313B

I was thinking that I might want to build a 1400 cc'ed network if the schematic for my network was not available. I have read about the cc'ed one and how nice it is. Might just be the ticket!!;)

I have lots of madisound bulk poly's to make just about any size cap I should need, so I will get some coils and resistors on order as to have plenty to choose from..........
Hummmmm don't forget the 9v battery holders :)

Thanks very much for everyone's help!

[JuniorJBL]

You might want to whip up yourself a pair of the 1400 Array crossovers as well and determine which you prefer. If you do that make them cc versions. It's definitely worth it.

I'd buy a couple of these networks myself if they were in stock but they aren't. MSRP on them is around $135 each. The 1400 Array networks (HF/UHF) are roughly half that price and out of stock as well.

The coil values and their DCR's have to be measured out of the circuit. Too bad JBL doesn't leave the stickers with that information on them. Those 5W 1ohm8 resistors might be 1.8 ohm instead of 1.0 ohm.


As soon as I can get a pair set up I will send you my networks to dis-assemble and re-assemble as you see fit.

[JuniorJBL]

I have just upgraded my S&L speakertester to the woofer tester pro, so I am awaiting my license file. I should be up and running no later than Monday or Tuesday

[JuniorJBL]

I just finished hooking up a DBX 223 X-over to a Rotel RB1080 to run the SAM's and my MC602 on the LE14H-1's in Citation 7.4 cabs.

WOW!! pretty much plug and play!!:D X-over set at about 750-800hz 24 db per, everything set a 0db.

These are really smooth and blend with the 14's REALLY well.

Now lets remember that I have only had Ewaves with the Selenium drivers and LE14's for the bottom so that was my first horn system. They did do the intended purpose , which was to get people interested.

These are wonderfully smooth and detailed. And now I will give you a pic and then back to listening!!:D

[4313B]

How does this look. I do not have any version of SPICE so would someone mind putting this in to see if I am not completly crazy? :blink:It appears that you nailed it.

Here is what I got by taking one apart:

R1 20 ohm 10 watt
R2 20 ohm 10 watt
R3 12 ohm 25 watt
R4 13 ohm 25 watt
R5 1.5 ohm 5 watt
R6 1.8 ohm 5 watt
R7 2.4 ohm 5 watt
R8 0.75 ohm 5 watt
R9 39 ohm 10 watt
R10 39 ohm 10 watt
R11 1.8 ohm 5 watt

C1 47 uF 100V NPE
C2 0.01uF 100V MPT
C3 100 uF 100V NPE
C4 0.01uF 100V MPT
C5 6 uF 100V MPT
C6 12 uF 100V MPT
C7 5 uF 100V MPT
C8 2.5 uF 100V PMT
C9 2.2 uF 100V MPT
C10 1 uF 100V MPT

L1 0.5 mH 0.7 ohm DCR AC
L2 0.1 mH 0.4 ohm DCR AC
L3 1.9 mH 1.3 ohm DCR AC
L4 1.2 mH 0.8 ohm DCR AC
L5 0.08 mH 0.4 ohm DCR AC
L6 0.14 mH 0.7 ohm DCR ACD

[4313B]

Here is the schematic in LEAP. It has some similarities to the 1400 Array network.

I don't have any data files for the 435AL or 045TI.

[4313B]

Those look like Citation 7.4 subs in the photo. If they are you might want to check and see if there is an inductor in line with the LE14H-1's inside the enclosures.

[JuniorJBL]

I just ran a wire through the port at that time, but the inductor is bypassed now!;)

Thanks for the work on the XO 4313B!!:)

BTW they are also 14-3's now.