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View Full Version : Spend how much on (used) modern speakers to upgrade from JBL L65As?



misterharrison
05-10-2011, 11:42 PM
Hi everybody

I have a pair of JBL L65As that I run with a Bryston 2BSST. While they definitely make a "fun" sound, especially when you turn them up a bit, I find myself constantly tweaking the presence/brilliance controls in an attempt to flatten out the response, and they don't seem to sound so good at lower volumes.

So my question is this: what kind of modern speaker would be a definite upgrade from the Jubals, providing a more even frequency response and a better sound at low volumes, without sacrificing some of the ability to go loud?

I guess I'll get more bang-for-my-buck going second-hand/used.
As an example of the kind of thing I've been looking at:
PMC OB1
Focal 927BE
Dynaudio Focus 220
Spendor A6

These are all in the £1000-£3000 range (used prices in the UK/Europe) but I have no idea if they would be a worthwile upgrade from the JBLs. And seeing as I'm looking at the used market, it's not very easy for me to get them in for an audition!

Maybe someone with direct experience of Jubals alongside modern speakers similar to those listed above could comment on the kind of differences I might expect?

I mostly play soul, funk, jazz-funk, electronica and some rock/pop.

richluvsound
05-11-2011, 01:47 AM
None those speakers are going to sound like L65's ..... there is a few Vintage JBL speakers to be had for under 3k that will we-we all over what you have and what your looking at ! ..... 4430 , 4435, L300 , 4343, 4341, or DIY something .

You may need to upgrade your amp though .

In fact , none of the newer speakers you suggest will give you an authentic representation of the type of music you prefer !

Good luck , Rich

Krunchy
05-11-2011, 04:34 AM
These are all in the £1000-£3000 range (used prices in the UK/Europe) but I have no idea if they would be a worthwile upgrade from the JBLs. And seeing as I'm looking at the used market, it's not very easy for me to get them in for an audition!

I think Rich is absolutely right, any of the ones he listed would be a huge step forward from the Jubals. That is a pretty good bit of change, for that kind of dough you should be able to get something that you will be really happy with.

I would also add the 4313B to that list, they really quite affordable and they sound fantastic. They can be had anywhere from $200.00 to $700.00 depending on their condition.

Have fun and let us know what you wind up with.

richluvsound
05-11-2011, 06:40 AM
Just some ideas from France . JBL 4315 "STUDIO MONITOR" 4 VOIES VOIR MES ACCUPHASE


Germany, JBL 250TI Highend Lautsprecher, amerikanische Version!!

vintage JBL 4333 Studio Monitor Professional Series

JBL 4730A , Professional Soundpower A Series, 600 Watt!


Or build a 2-way with SOTA parts ..... you need a box with a 15" in it , crossover , horn and a mid-high driver ... parts = around 4000 euro ..... part funded by the sale of Jubals

just a few ideas , Rich

timc
05-11-2011, 08:04 AM
Hi everybody

I have a pair of JBL L65As that I run with a Bryston 2BSST. While they definitely make a "fun" sound, especially when you turn them up a bit, I find myself constantly tweaking the presence/brilliance controls in an attempt to flatten out the response, and they don't seem to sound so good at lower volumes.

So my question is this: what kind of modern speaker would be a definite upgrade from the Jubals, providing a more even frequency response and a better sound at low volumes, without sacrificing some of the ability to go loud?

I guess I'll get more bang-for-my-buck going second-hand/used.
As an example of the kind of thing I've been looking at:
PMC OB1
Focal 927BE
Dynaudio Focus 220
Spendor A6

These are all in the £1000-£3000 range (used prices in the UK/Europe) but I have no idea if they would be a worthwile upgrade from the JBLs. And seeing as I'm looking at the used market, it's not very easy for me to get them in for an audition!

Maybe someone with direct experience of Jubals alongside modern speakers similar to those listed above could comment on the kind of differences I might expect?

I mostly play soul, funk, jazz-funk, electronica and some rock/pop.


My vote would go to a completely different speaker. For around £3000 you should be able to get a set of used Array 1000. It won't sound like the L65's, but it will be a giant leap forward.

Progneta
05-11-2011, 02:20 PM
....Altec...

misterharrison
05-11-2011, 11:27 PM
What on earth did I think I was doing, suggesting "other" brands of speaker on the Lansing Heritage forum!

Seriously, though, I appreciate all the suggestions. Finding some of these classic JBL monitors here in Europe can be quite tricky, and the prices are generally significantly higher than in the USA. I mean, there's some guy in Germany trying to sell some Jubals on eBay at the moment and he's asking 3400 euros!

So which of the suggestions so far would be most likely to tick the "sounds-great-at-low-volumes" box?

Or would I be able to achieve that with my L65s by changing the amplifier, perhaps?

Mr. Widget
05-11-2011, 11:41 PM
What on earth did I think I was doing, suggesting "other" brands of speaker on the Lansing Heritage forum!I am glad we have straightened you out!

Seriously though, even though finding JBL (or Altec) in Europe is more difficult than here in California, they are in the homes of Forum members all over Europe and around the world... if you are patient you can find almost anything you want.

As for speaker choices, that is so tough. It has taken me years to find speakers that I really like. I doubt changing amps will completely satisfy you.


Widget

pyonc
05-12-2011, 04:59 AM
If you go for jazz or pop, I would like to recommend the four-way classic 4343, which I enjoy everyday in a bi-amp mode.
Music, especially jazz, just comes alive to your ears. I'm afraid it might be a rare find in Europe...

richluvsound
05-12-2011, 06:48 AM
Mr........

I don't know if he still has them , but Chris at http://www.bigearsaudio.org.uk/ had a pair for around 2000 euro . And a sub to them and you'll be very happy ! Should sound very good with the clean dynamics of the Bryston


Not really affiliated ,but I have done business with him and found the experience a good and honest one

Rich

Progneta
05-12-2011, 07:48 AM
I personally enjoy Altec 515/288g/k two way setup. I think the mid range is untouchable. However, an A7 cabinet with a large multicell horn is huge and if you have a small livingroom or a wife, the idea is questionable :D. Also adding a super tweeter like a JBL 2405 and bottom subwoofer really gives the system a kick.

Ive demo'd a lot of speakers and always fall back to Altec. However, its what I like...Its always what you like! Take my suggestions with a grain of salt...a very small grain!

misterharrison
05-16-2011, 02:39 PM
Hmmm, the Jubals are sounding excellent tonight. I hope the neighbours are out...

Maybe an amplifier change to something warmer would solve my low-volume issues?

Progneta
05-17-2011, 08:20 PM
Perhaps an amp change will help. I was listening to some random amps for the past week or so. Finally got back on the MC275, what what a beautiful world I was missing :)

misterharrison
05-18-2011, 10:40 AM
Perhaps an amp change will help. I was listening to some random amps for the past week or so. Finally got back on the MC275, what what a beautiful world I was missing :)
Driving Jubals? Has it got enough grunt to keep a grip on those 12 inchers?

markd51
05-18-2011, 02:05 PM
Driving Jubals? Has it got enough grunt to keep a grip on those 12 inchers?

I think an MC275 should have plenty of Cojones for driving the Jubals. McIntosh typically under-rates every piece of gear they make, and the 275 typically puts out about 90wpc. Should be more than enough power to turn the Jubals inside out if you chose.

Bryston amps, while very good, are said by many to be on the sterile side.

Whereas Mcintosh, even their Solid State offerings are more commonly more lush, and warmer sounding Amps.

I've been using McIntosh for years, and still own the original L-65 Jubal many years too (4 of them)
The JBL 4430 was IMO a very nice step up. I don't miss what the 077 Tweeter could do, with the 4430 in my present system.

And the 4430 is a very efficient speaker, that an MC-275 will not be inadequate to drive them. While they can handle much more power than the L-65/Jubal, their larger size doesn't equate to being more power hungry. In fact, it seemed like it took less watts in my own system to bring the 4430 up to thunderous levels versus the L-65. Mark

tomee
05-28-2011, 06:28 AM
Are the Jubals on stands, or lifted off the floor a bit?

misterharrison
05-28-2011, 06:42 AM
On stands, on spikes, on granite plinths. Total height is 44cm.

Rolf
05-28-2011, 02:57 PM
I really don't understand your problem. The "Jubal" is n excellent speaker in the price range.

Fix it, and you will be very happy. Just my thoughts.

misterharrison
05-30-2011, 08:42 AM
I know what you mean, Rolf.
I was listening last night and was really enjoying their presentation but I was playing fairly loud. I find that when I turn them down to levels that my neighbours appreciate then they lose some of their magic.

Tonight I'm going to try swapping out my Bryston amp for an old class A B&K amp to see if that helps on the low volume issue.

You're right, though, the Jubals are lovely! :)

Rolf
05-31-2011, 10:43 AM
That is my experience to. They need to play a little loud to get the best out of them. The larger JBL's plays beautiful, on lower levels. Don't know why, but I guess it has something with the drivers and the size of the cabinets.


I know what you mean, Rolf.
I was listening last night and was really enjoying their presentation but I was playing fairly loud. I find that when I turn them down to levels that my neighbours appreciate then they lose some of their magic.

Tonight I'm going to try swapping out my Bryston amp for an old class A B&K amp to see if that helps on the low volume issue.

You're right, though, the Jubals are lovely! :)

Tim Rinkerman
05-31-2011, 11:06 AM
Even at very low volumes, bi-amping them ( seperate amp for lows, and highs...) or using an amp with an excess of 300 watts per channel makes a world of difference. To really control big woofers, you need a big power supply...not necessarily for volume, more for control. Just my 2 cents......

Mr. Widget
05-31-2011, 11:15 AM
To really control big woofers, you need a big power supply...not necessarily for volume, more for control. Just my 2 cents......I agree with your premise. I'd submit that with most JBL woofers, amp choice is fairly critical for well behaved and controlled bass. Not just a big power supply, but an amp design that can handle a lot of back current being generated by their powerful motors.


Widget

tom1040
05-31-2011, 03:53 PM
I agree with your premise. I'd submit that with most JBL woofers, amp choice is fairly critical for well behaved and controlled bass. Not just a big power supply, but an amp design that can handle a lot of back current being generated by their powerful motors.


Widget


I could not agree more.

JuniorJBL
05-31-2011, 04:36 PM
As with the amps, maybe a bit of eq would help you out. dual 1/3's are not very expensive. Would not hurt to try. Maybe try to re position for different effect. Room treatment?

misterharrison
06-02-2011, 03:54 AM
Tonight I'm going to try swapping out my Bryston amp for an old class A B&K amp to see if that helps on the low volume issue.
Well, this seems to have been a large step in the right direction. With the B&K ST140 driving the Jubals, the sound is now warm and full even at low volumes and the piercing and fatiguing highs have been smoothed off, although perhaps sacrificing a little bit of detail. I have found myself listening to music again rather than listening to the system. To be honest it feels such a relief to have that feeling back.

This has really brought home to me the reality of component matching, especially between amp and speakers. That a 20-year-old $200/$300 amplifier sounds so much better than a state-of-the-art $2500 Bryston is quite a revelation. I'm sure the Bryston is technically better and more accurate and probably sounds spectacular with the right speakers, but I can tell you right now it ain't going back in my system! When I bought it I automatically relegated the B&K to the cupboard without a second thought - next time I won't make any assumptions about component performance based on price, I can tell you.

Now I am starting to wonder if there is an amp out there that can combine the B&K's warm and inviting sound with the Bryston's detail. Any suggestions?

:bouncy:

Rolf
06-02-2011, 07:45 AM
As I many times in different threads have said, I feel the an amp using MosFet transistors in a perfect match with most JBL speakers from the time the Jubal (and many others) were made. It is in my opinion both the details and the sound you describe regarding the B&K amp is present. I use the NZ brand Perreaux, and I can recommend them. They don't come cheap, but are worth it. Of course there are many other amps to that I am sure are good choices.

Anyway, you asked for suggestions, and this is my opinion.


Well, this seems to have been a large step in the right direction. With the B&K ST140 driving the Jubals, the sound is now warm and full even at low volumes and the piercing and fatiguing highs have been smoothed off, although perhaps sacrificing a little bit of detail. I have found myself listening to music again rather than listening to the system. To be honest it feels such a relief to have that feeling back.

This has really brought home to me the reality of component matching, especially between amp and speakers. That a 20-year-old $200/$300 amplifier sounds so much better than a state-of-the-art $2500 Bryston is quite a revelation. I'm sure the Bryston is technically better and more accurate and probably sounds spectacular with the right speakers, but I can tell you right now it ain't going back in my system! When I bought it I automatically relegated the B&K to the cupboard without a second thought - next time I won't make any assumptions about component performance based on price, I can tell you.

Now I am starting to wonder if there is an amp out there that can combine the B&K's warm and inviting sound with the Bryston's detail. Any suggestions?

:bouncy:

misterharrison
06-02-2011, 10:48 AM
I use the NZ brand Perreaux, and I can recommend them. They don't come cheap, but are worth it. Of course there are many other amps to that I am sure are good choices.

Anyway, you asked for suggestions, and this is my opinion.
Funnily enough, a Perreaux 200P was advertised yesterday near me here in Portugal...

:hmm:

misterharrison
06-03-2011, 11:32 AM
With the B&K ST140 driving the Jubals, the sound is now warm and full even at low volumes...
I have just been reminded that, at low volumes, the B&K operates in class A.
This may have something to do with the delicious sound at low volumes?

Consequently I am now eyeing up a Plinius amp. A bit more than I was planning to spend, but if I sell the Bryston...

Rolf
06-07-2011, 10:45 AM
That is a good amp. About in middle of their product line.


Funnily enough, a Perreaux 200P was advertised yesterday near me here in Portugal...

:hmm:

misterharrison
06-07-2011, 11:14 AM
I actually started a new thread about amps here (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?31194-Amplifier-for-L65s-(Bryston-B-amp-K-Perreaux)).
:)

Rolf
06-10-2011, 10:30 AM
So does the Perreaux amps. Up to about 10W output.


I have just been reminded that, at low volumes, the B&K operates in class A.