4675C-4LF or 5732 for HT upgrade.

[LarryMcConville]

Good Evening.

I’ve recently sold my JTR gear, and I’m looking to upgrade the speakers in my HT. I currently have the 4675C and 5732 products on my short list for the front stage (looking at Danley SH too); after aggressive negotiations with a dealer, I can get into the 5732 for another $400/channel (as compared to the 4675).

Now, please know I have not heard either of these products. I’m relying upon the words of folks I trust on AVS who were previously using the same mains I just sold and currently own 4675Cs, or at least a system incorporating the 2360A horn.

I must honestly admit, I find the 2360A a sexy beast, and evidently long for it in my subconscious as I’m unable to escape its grasp…

With that being said/shared,I have spent the past couple of weeks researching the 2360A, and the various CDs folks have integrated to improve the HF – while maintaining the ~600-750 Hz MFperformance.

JBL’s documentation rates the 2360A/2446H -3dB @12 kHz. I’ve noted many gentlemen here have utilized many JBL CD models as well as those from Tad, BMS, etc…

This implementation shall be 99% HT; given this perspective, will this HF rolloff be critical? I have looked into the Crown Dsi family of amplifiers, and the HiQnet documentation lists pre-sets for the 4675 to compensate for this rolloff. Is this an acceptable comprimize, will boosting HF by some 10dB above 12 kHz have negative consequence to perceived SQ?

In closing, can someone help me understand what the difference in presentation would be between the 4675 and the 5732 products?

Both products have very similar LF compliments as each are boasting a pair of 2226 drivers. The 5732 utilizes the 8” differential drive mids (which may be pretty sweet), and would likely enjoy flatter response to 20 kHz.</SPAN>

I have a dedicated 24’ x 13’ x 7.5’ HT which is fully treated, and is currently sitting idle as my previous speakers sold much sooner than anticipated.

Thanks for your consideration, and any thoughts you may have to share.

Regards,

Larry

[rlsound]

At that price point, I would be insisting on listening to said speakers before buying. I'd also be looking at the Danleys. SH50 on LCR and 2 TH50 subs would do that room very nicely.

[LarryMcConville]

I agree; however, I have yet to find anywhere with a pair of 5732 to listen to.
Danley SH50 is certainly on my list, but they're another $1k/channel above the 5732 product.

Thanks for the feedback.


At that price point, I would be insisting on listening to said speakers before buying. I'd also be looking at the Danleys. SH50 on LCR and 2 TH50 subs would do that room very nicely.

[rlsound]

If you are interested in going the 4675 route, I would get the 8 ohm box instead of the 4. There's really no reason to get the 4 ohm box. The 8 ohm version is the only version that is THX certified for cinema use. The reason probably is that is isn't driving the amp as hard as the 4 ohm version.

If you want to save a few dollars, there are lots of 2360A horns that come up on ebay. People seem to be hell bent on getting rid of them, for a very modest price. You could order the 4648A-8 LF box and buy the horn off ebay and find a 2446 HF driver on here. You might need to order the horn mounting bracket for the top of the 4648, but I'll bet you'll be able to pull it off for less than your dealer is asking.

As for amps, look at QSC DCA series or Lab Gruppen.

[rlsound]

One other thing, the 2360A horn is almost a meter in length, hopefully you have lots of room in the front to work with !

[JBL 4645]

One other thing, the 2360A horn is almost a meter in length, hopefully you have lots of room in the front to work with !

You could use option B which is JBL 2380 the horn should perform adequately in a small room remember these are made for large cinemas and the home is way, way smaller and you won’t need it playing at the level as cinema, otherwise your next appointment will be with the doctor.

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=633

The 2380 will mount nicely on the cab and it won’t take up room space where the 2360A overhangs, like you pointed out its almost 1 metre in length and that would never work in my living room it would reduced the room from 15 feet down to 12 feet!

For the recoded smaller digital cinemas use smaller HF horns that have very tight space behind the screen very tight! I’m talking a few inches and that to cater for 60 seats! Does you’re room have 60 seats? I don’t think so :D so use a smaller HF horn it will still give outstanding listening pleasure without reducing the length of the room.

But it’s your money and it will be your room loss, in size if you go for a 2360A you need a very large room space for those horns. I wouldn’t have those x3 horns if they where given to me for free because they just won’t fit in my living room. I’d have x5 2380 for free! :p

[LarryMcConville]

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen.

I currently have 40" behind my screen wall, with my first row of seats at 15' from the screen. So I do have plenty of room behind the screen to play with.

I'm still curious about the dedicated MF drivers in units such as the 3731/3732 product. I will continue to seek opportunities to audition these 3-way Screen Arrays, but would like to hear from those who have heard them. Having dedicated MF drivers seems like a good approach, and the package is much more managable - I could at least still get behind my screen.

btw - I'm waiting to hear from two guys on the Danley SH-50 product. One gentleman has 3 on order which should arrive mid-April (he is coming from mains similar to those I just sold), and the other gentleman had an appointment at DSL today to audition the SH-50/SH-60. I respect these gentlemen's opinions, and their feedback may persuade me to pursue a DSL solution too.

Regards,


Larry


You could use option B which is JBL 2380 the horn should perform adequately in a small room remember these are made for large cinemas and the home is way, way smaller and you won’t need it playing at the level as cinema, otherwise your next appointment will be with the doctor.

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=633

The 2380 will mount nicely on the cab and it won’t take up room space where the 2360A overhangs, like you pointed out its almost 1 metre in length and that would never work in my living room it would reduced the room from 15 feet down to 12 feet!

For the recoded smaller digital cinemas use smaller HF horns that have very tight space behind the screen very tight! I’m talking a few inches and that to cater for 60 seats! Does you’re room have 60 seats? I don’t think so :D so use a smaller HF horn it will still give outstanding listening pleasure without reducing the length of the room.

But it’s your money and it will be your room loss, in size if you go for a 2360A you need a very large room space for those horns. I wouldn’t have those x3 horns if they where given to me for free because they just won’t fit in my living room. I’d have x5 2380 for free! :p

[JBL 4645]

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen.

I currently have 40" behind my screen wall, with my first row of seats at 15' from the screen. So I do have plenty of room behind the screen to play with.

I'm still curious about the dedicated MF drivers in units such as the 3731/3732 product. I will continue to seek opportunities to audition these 3-way Screen Arrays, but would like to hear from those who have heard them. Having dedicated MF drivers seems like a good approach, and the package is much more managable - I could at least still get behind my screen.

Regards,

Larry

I take it you have the height in the room with several more feet above! Those screen array almost stand about 7 feet high! That will never happen in my living room!

Just so you know I was almost itching to put in earplugs at the Empire Leicester Square where they use custom JBL three-way five-screen. 18” JBL 4642 x2 clusters each of midrange and one HF for the top end subs 4645C x16 standing just over 8 feet high by just over 11 feet wide and all the stage channels are some 15 feet up.

I’d say you’d have to have a very, very large room from floor to ceiling.

You’d only need one mid range and one high range. Unless you want to be deaf within a few years! They put out a wicked HIGH END They’re are damn loud on the highs and if you want to have an earache afterwards that is what you’ll get with STAR TREK phaser attack!:die::D

[jerv]

JBL’s documentation rates the 2360A/2446H -3dB @12 kHz. I’ve noted many gentlemen here have utilized many JBL CD models as well as those from Tad, BMS, etc…

This implementation shall be 99% HT; given this perspective, will this HF rolloff be critical? I have looked into the Crown Dsi family of amplifiers, and the HiQnet documentation lists pre-sets for the 4675 to compensate for this rolloff. Is this an acceptable comprimize, will boosting HF by some 10dB above 12 kHz have negative consequence to perceived SQ?


It is possible to eq the 2-inch driver in the 2360 flat to 20 kHz, but IMO they don't sound good used like this. A supertweeter is needed. I use my 2360's from 500 Hz to about 8 kHz, where the 2404H takes over.

[coctostan]

I would get the 5732 over the 4675 in a heartbeat. The 5732 is the latest and greatest JBL Cinema speaker. It has their best pro CD, the 2452H-SL. Zilch was a huge fan of this CD and it actually does play out to 18-20khz cleanly.

The 2" horn throat also sacrifices high frequency directivity to play down to the mid frequencies. There is a reason JBL has pretty much abandoned the 2" throats for 1.5" throats.

[JBL 4645]

It is possible to eq the 2-inch driver in the 2360 flat to 20 kHz, but IMO they don't sound good used like this. A supertweeter is needed. I use my 2360's from 500 Hz to about 8 kHz, where the 2404H takes over.

So in what way doesn't it sound good?

Depending on what SPL db level you want the highs to play at!?
I’d say its possible to eq it up to 20KHz but how many of us honestly say I can hear a pinching high frequency sound playing above 8KHz! Very few on this, forum I would say!

If you have tones below it with peaks around 4KHz that tone will be like hill and your ears are in front of it and they won’t hear 8KHz that well much less 10 and so on and on up the scale.

It needs to be as flat as possible and its down to the mix how that was produced. Often sound effects on few rare films have peaks in around near 16KHz.

Alien 3
Tomorrow Never Dies
The Truman Show

I’m still looking for more films that have high frequency exclusive.

If I can get my JBL control 5 tweeters to pinch my ears with the tone I don’t see no reason why the JBL 2360A can’t especially with its high sensitively power handling and being so close to it in the living room, makes it very possible, unless you don’t know what to look or listen for?

The way I approach it is to reduce the offending easily high frequencies and amp up the power in tiny steps until I’ve got flat response that reads on the RTA (using wideband pink noise).

I’d place a boast on around the 16KHz range and keep the audio limiter to ON to prevent harmful peaks damaging the HF.

When I saw The Truman Show in Dolby SR-D in the cinema the scene where he’s driving around while listening to the radio! The high frequency pitch that sends everyone who’s listening on radio transceivers with ear pieces stuck in their ears, wow that scene bent my ears for a brief few seconds and that’s from 40 feet away from the screen itself.

I wouldn’t play it at the same levels with JBL2360A it would hurt! :crying: I don’t need to own a JBL 4675-A to know from first hand listening experience in the cinema with these beasts how loud they can play at in super large cinemas to medium size cinemas.:p

[1audiohack]

I fully agree with Jerv, the 2360 does not, will not, can not reproduce the last octave well, even with Be loaded drivers, below 10-12kHz they are awesome, but plan on a tweeter if you go that route.

[JBL 4645]

I fully agree with Jerv, the 2360 does not, will not, can not reproduce the last octave well, even with Be loaded drivers, below 10-12kHz they are awesome, but plan on a tweeter if you go that route.

I don’t believe they can’t reach 20 KHz if not 16 KHz.
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=635

[Mctwins]

Hi
I have great result with my JBL 3731 with additional subs JBL 4641.

Here is a link from my thread:http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?28924-JBL-3731-and-McIntosh

Thanks

[stephane RAME]

Hi,
I too am very pleased with the results of listening 3732 M/HF + Onken 360 Onken / GPA 515-8g.
Link : http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?29600-Altec-AcoustaBass-AB-2200-JBL-3732mhf-JBL-2402h
Best regards
Stéphane

[LarryMcConville]

Good Evening Everyone, and thank you for sharing your wonderful systems.

I have finally made a decision, and I'm going in a non-JBL direction. Hope you guys still let me hang out here though:)

Front L&R = Danley SH-50
Center = Danley SH-69
Surrounds = Danley SH-100

System shall initially be powered with all Face Audio amplifiers as I retained this gear from the sale of my previous system. Bridged F1200 on each SH-50 and SH-69, and bridged F250 on each surround. I'm going to look into Crest 8200/9200 as one replacement/upgrade option.

Subs shall be 4 B&C 21SW152, each unit shall have a sealed ~5 cubic foot enclosure and powered by half of a Crest 9200.

Thanks for humoring my inquiries gentlemen; I'm waiting to hear back from my Danley dealer with shipping details now. I expect to place the order next week, and he said there is about a 2 week lead time.

Regards,

Larry

[coctostan]

Good Evening Everyone, and thank you for sharing your wonderful systems.

I have finally made a decision, and I'm going in a non-JBL direction. Hope you guys still let me hang out here though:)

Front L&R = Danley SH-50
Center = Danley SH-69
Surrounds = Danley SH-100

System shall initially be powered with all Face Audio amplifiers as I retained this gear from the sale of my previous system. Bridged F1200 on each SH-50 and SH-69, and bridged F250 on each surround. I'm going to look into Crest 8200/9200 as one replacement/upgrade option.

Subs shall be 4 B&C 21SW152, each unit shall have a sealed ~5 cubic foot enclosure and powered by half of a Crest 9200.

Thanks for humoring my inquiries gentlemen; I'm waiting to hear back from my Danley dealer with shipping details now. I expect to place the order next week, and he said there is about a 2 week lead time.

Regards,

Larry

I would use the SH60 over the SH50. I'd go with 60 degrees over 50. In fact, I'd talk to the Danley guys about the SM line over the SH line for the home. I think the molded horns will perform better for your purposes. Do you have an acoustically transparent screen?

Better yet, I'd go with 3 SM96's. They are 90x60 horns and were just released. I would put the SM96's in the corners angled in at 45deg crossing just in front of the listeners.

SM 96 spec sheet: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/SM%2096%20spec%20sheet.pdf

Also, bridging your Face amps will be well beyond necessary headroom. In all likelihood, you will never use more than 10-20w per speaker at the loudest levels.

[LarryMcConville]

Hi coctostan,

Yes, I have an AT screen (~146").

I thought the same in comparing the SH60 to the SH50; my seated position is between 13' - 14' from the screen face depending upon how one sits - upright/reclined...

I have received input from Ivan @DSL, and also my DSL dealer; it seems that going with the SH 'family' will bring the level of midbass/midrange 'presense' I seek.

Please know, I do respect and appreciate your feedback here. I'm also looking for this giant step (I'm coming from JTR Triple 8s) to cure my upgraditis for the long-term.

You have a good point in respect to my amplification; I will likely start out in a non-bridged configuration to assess as this will also reduce amp induced THD a little too.

Larry


I would use the SH60 over the SH50. I'd go with 60 degrees over 50. In fact, I'd talk to the Danley guys about the SM line over the SH line for the home. I think the molded horns will perform better for your purposes. Do you have an acoustically transparent screen?

Better yet, I'd go with 3 SM96's. They are 90x60 horns and were just released. I would put the SM96's in the corners angled in at 45deg crossing just in front of the listeners.

SM 96 spec sheet: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/SM%2096%20spec%20sheet.pdf

Also, bridging your Face amps will be well beyond necessary headroom. In all likelihood, you will never use more than 10-20w per speaker at the loudest levels.

[coctostan]

Yes, the SH models have a stronger midbass. If they fit the budget it is probably a better bet.

Have you thought about getting the powered versions? You should ask Ivan about that option. There are some advantages to that.

I would look at 3 SH-60s or SH-69's oriented for 90x60. I'm sure Ivan can hook you up.

[LarryMcConville]

Hi Coctostan,

Honestly, I haven't considered the powered versions as I have a rack full of Face Audio amps (9 units).

I'll ping Ivan/DSL tomorrow to further seek their opinion on the SH50/SH60 comparison. They previously indicated the SH50 coverage pattern would work well for my install, but subsequent input certainly isn't going to hurt.

Regards,

Larry


Yes, the SH models have a stronger midbass. If they fit the budget it is probably a better bet.

Have you thought about getting the powered versions? You should ask Ivan about that option. There are some advantages to that.

I would look at 3 SH-60s or SH-69's oriented for 90x60. I'm sure Ivan can hook you up.

[rlsound]

Congrats Larry, either model you choose will not disappoint!

I would suggest in keeping LCR the same speaker.

[LarryMcConville]

Thank You, I'm really excited here.

It's interesting you suggest I maintain the same model across the LCR. This was my position too, and after asking 'more then once' Ivan and my dealer have both indicated the 90 degree pattern in the horizontal of the SH69 would be a better choice for center.

With the Danley 'entrance fee' I certainly don't want to get this wrong.

Larry


Congrats Larry, either model you choose will not disappoint!

I would suggest in keeping LCR the same speaker.