JBL 075 plus 130 D and N 2400, is that enough?!

[raphael.t]

Hello Folks!

First off all excuse my broken English, I hope yet, I can express, what I want to ask for.

I am a HIFI-freak, but not common with vintage JBL.
A friend of mine gave me once two real big nice selfmade cabinets with JBL 075 tweeters, 130 D woofers and N 2400 X-overs.
I cleaned all the contacts from oxidation and changed some condensaters in the crossover, but I am not happy with the sound.
The problem are the voices, base is wonderful, the 075 are good too, but the mids...
If I compare this configuration with my Tannoy Arden III, I am not satisfied.

So my question:
Is there any possibility, to become a good sound with nice voices from that 2-way speakers or should I give up my efforts in that direction?
In the seventies they sold that two-way kits in Europe.

Please help me!
Thank you for your answers!

Greetings
from Austria
Raphael

[Lee in Montreal]

I am not familiar with this set-up but something strikes me.
The 075 is like the 2405, right? Therefore it is usually cut off at 7 or 8k HZ, quite high.
The woofer is most likely working from 30Hz tp perhaps 1kHz. Therefore, something tells me you are prhaps missing a few octaves in the reproduction.
EDIT - the 075 is like the 2402 bullet, whch crosses over at 3-4K Hz. But there might still be a gap in the frequency range, or the crossover is tired...

[raphael.t]

Hello!

Lee, thank you for your answer!
The kit 075 and D 130 was regularly sold in the seventies.
"The D 130 balances perfectly with the 075" (1974, 1976 home) and the crossover N 2400 was suitable for this combination.

Is there anyone here, who has the same speakers in a cabinet?

Greetings
Raphael

[Ruediger]

What You have is a sound reinforcement system, aka "Gesangsbox" in German. The idea is that the kit is built into a small portable cabinet and that the boxes are used in concerts.

Ruediger

[Mannermusic]

Hello!

Lee, thank you for your answer!
The kit 075 and D 130 was regularly sold in the seventies.
"The D 130 balances perfectly with the 075" (1974, 1976 home) and the crossover N 2400 was suitable for this combination.

Is there anyone here, who has the same speakers in a cabinet?

Greetings
Raphael

Yes, many of us here used the "030" system, as it was called, back in the 60s and 70s. The N2400 is designed to cross at 2500 Hz. The combo should sound pretty good - lively, accurate. Needs 6 cu ft. (170 litre) or more to be at its best. I remember voices sounding very good. Good for small combo jazz - wonderful for sax in particular. We always felt the bass was the thing needing improvement - not so much the mid - and usually ran a couple or three clicks (Marantz 7C) bass boost. I'd check everything to be sure they meet specifications - the correct cone kit, etc. Sounds like you have already covered the basics so wonder if something more serious is happening or missing. There should be an aluminum dust cap on the D130 - important for the mid/high frequencies. Igor Stravinsky used the D130 for his monitor back in those days. A pretty good two-way all-in-all . . . especially for those times. There are a few from the engineering dept. from those days and may add to comments here (hint!).

[raphael.t]

Hello!

Ruediger and Mannermusic, thank you for answering me!

My cabinets for the JBLs are really big, as my Tannoy Arden III, I am sure, 200 l ore more.
Yes, there are aluminium dustcaps.
And good amps, like Marantz 250 M od Sony TA N-80 or some tubes.
The voice (Patricia Barber, Dianne Reeves, Holly Cole...) sounds hollow and too large. All my HIFI-friends can hear it.

So what could be the reason for the troubles I have?

Greetings Raphael

[Ruediger]

...
So what could be the reason for the troubles I have?
...

You do not have any troubles. The D130 was made for quasi-linear response up to ca. 1 kHz, and for musical instrument usage and for sound reinforcement the aluminium dome boosts the treble range. It was never meant to be a fullrange speaker such as Tannoy (koaxial) or Lowther etc.

With a big cabinet the relation of acoustical performance to cabinet size does not convince, but if You put it into a, say, 50 liter enclosure together with the tweeter, then You can really rock a party.

Ruediger

[Baron030]

I would suspect that the 075 level is just set a little too high and it might explain the bad vocals.
But, there is one other remote possibility; the N2400 network could be an older 16 ohm variant. Assuming that the D130 driver’s impedance is 8 ohms and you have a 16 ohm version of the N2400 network then the coil is too large (about 1.3 mH). The result is that the D130 would be crossing over too low and this would create a hole in the response at about 2,500 Hz.

Here is a link to an 8 ohm N2400 network:
www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?12938-The-N2400-Revealed (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?12938-The-N2400-Revealed)

Baron030:)

[Hans]

Check the woofers for demagnetization! If that has happend you will have a lousy mid :-(

[BMWCCA]

The D130 was made for quasi-linear response up to ca. 1 kHz, and for musical instrument usage and for sound reinforcement the aluminium dome boosts the treble range. It was never meant to be a fullrange speaker such as Tannoy (koaxial) or Lowther etc.Truth be told, JBL called the D130 an "extended range" loudspeaker. The idea was it could stand alone or be used as a building block toward a better system in the future by adding the 175DLH and/or the 075 then using the D130 as a woofer. The language at the time spoke to its ability to reproduce "every frequency recorded on the finest modern transcriptions". I loved the sound of the 030 but I also used an EQ with mine for the last thirty-years or so, and before that fiddled with all the controls on my Mac C20 to get it to sound the way I wanted. The variable loudness control on that old pre-amp helped a bit.

I loved my 030s for over fifty years. They're a wonderful system, but easily eclipsed by many more modern JBLs. Accept them for what they are. If you want to keep that vintage sound, I'd look into adding an LE175DLH and upgrading the crossovers or it might be more effective to bi- or tri-amp. I thought about doing just that with a pair of Crown VFX2As and Crown DC300A-II, D150A-II, and D75A, but never got around to it.

[raphael.t]

Hello!

Thank you for your answers!

Ruediger: There is an 075 beside the D 130, the woofer works not alone.

Baron030: Thanks for the link, I think, my N 2400 is the 8 Ohm version, but
I will look for it.

Hans: I thougt, I have a little knowledge at HIFI-technics, but what is a woofer-demagnetization? How does this work?

BMWCCA: Yes, two 175 would be good, but to get them is not easy here in Austria.

Is there a suggestion, how to tune the crossover for a better performance in a two-way system with 075, D130 and N 2400?

Greetings
Raphael

[Ruediger]

In the "Transducer Information" forum there is a data sheet of the E130-8. That is a successor of Your speaker. Have a look at the frequency plot. That should answer all of Your questions.

Ruediger

[jcrobso]

Many chose this because it cost less than the D130/175DHL system. I had a chance to compare them side by side and the D130/175DHL sounded better.
When I started building my own JBL system this was the route I chose and added the JBL 077 later.

[raphael.t]

Hello!

The crossover has the serial-number 24 472.

I think maybe, that my combination 075, D130 and N 2400 isn´t possible to produce better sound.
There is a really big woofer with a tweeter, which is regularly working in a three-way-system from 7000 cycles.

I have two pieces vintage Technics mid-hornes (93 dB), but no knowledge, how to combine them with the JBLs. The problem is the crossover.

Greetings Raphael

[Ruediger]

...
I have two pieces vintage Technics mid-hornes (93 dB), but no knowledge, how to combine them with the JBLs. ...
Greetings Raphael

93 dB will not do. Your woofer is 100+. The E130 is 103 dB.

Ruediger