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Ken Pachkowsky
08-30-2004, 08:33 PM
Hi all

My new speaker stands with built in racks are almost done. Can anyone suggest a 19in rack mount cd player that has good overall performance?

Must play all standard format cd's yada yada.

Thanks

speakerdave
08-30-2004, 08:39 PM
Suggest you not buy ANY CD or DVD player until you check out SACD.

David

boputnam
08-30-2004, 08:44 PM
Dood! Call me - you KNOW I live in this space... :rotfl:

This is the best I've run across, and it's priced accordingly. :shock: It's the only 1RU I know of. Clever... It's companion, the CDRW66 recorder has lately been discontinued :( , perhaps signalling Sony is exiting the Pro line. Bad news, that.

But, Dave is right - just ask Widget about the merits of SACD... :yes:

caladois
08-31-2004, 03:55 AM
STUDER Old products like a725, A726 and A731 are still performing and play all CDs.
The other choice will go for Revox C221.

These are all professionnal (including XLR...)

I personnaly own a STUDER A725 which is still my favourite.

I knew that EMT produced CD players but they are that rare and expensive.

Regards Stephane.

Guido
08-31-2004, 04:20 AM
Hi Ken!

I recently bought a used Harman Kardon HK7725 for equal to 250 USD.
Wow, not the typical low price plastic type player they sell at these days. This unit weighs 12 kg!
The sound is unbelievable. In the 90s when this player was produced it cost about 1200 USD.

OK its not rack mount but it sounds damned good!!

jblnut
08-31-2004, 06:42 AM
I thought I was the only one hip to the 7725/7525 models. These were the last true "high end" players that HK ever made. They weigh a ton and have really nice D/A burr-brown converters. If you ever see one for sale, GRAB it. You won't regret it...

Course it's not a rack mount player but I suppose you could put it on a rack shelf pretty easy...

jblnut

whgeiger
08-31-2004, 12:20 PM
KP,

Just about any front-loading CD player may be rack mounted. Usually rack mount kits are available from either the rack or player manufacturer. If the unit is heavy, use a supporting shelf behind the mounting ears, as this removes mechanical stress from the player chassis. For a single CD player, prefer that this unit be located at the listening position and away from the power amplifiers. For Redbook CD’s, like the Accuphase DP-67. It sucks out the last vestige of audio detail from the course sampling rate used. If you have a large CD library, the high street price ($3,500) may not seem too bad.

Regards,

WHG

dancing-dave
08-31-2004, 12:26 PM
Fostex CD Recorders have very clean sound for a fair price point either new or used. Their playback is ultra clean and favorable.

Figge
08-31-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by caladois
STUDER Old products like a725, A726 and A731 are still performing and play all CDs.
The other choice will go for Revox C221.

These are all professionnal (including XLR...)

I personnaly own a STUDER A725 which is still my favourite.

I knew that EMT produced CD players but they are that rare and expensive.

Regards Stephane.


hi! not bad stuff ur naming here!

btw do you have website about EMT turntables and cd:s. and other ultra high quality equipment? (i think i recognise your name)


one day im gonna buy a EMT turntable...one day...

regards fredrik

Ken Pachkowsky
08-31-2004, 07:36 PM
Thanks for the great suggestions guys. I will look into a few of these.

Just going to post some pics of my new HR-1 stands in a new thread.

Ken

Oldmics
09-02-2004, 01:36 PM
quote from Bo

" It's the only 1RU I know of. "

Oldmics

boputnam
09-05-2004, 10:21 AM
Nice, Oldmics!

The brochure mentions 1995 - I cannot Google this thing, at all. Is it NLA? :(

Or was it "NWA"... ;)

jontherev
09-07-2004, 09:53 AM
but I have to endorse JVC because I've had the same single cd JVC player for over 15 years now. I can't recall the model number, but it has worked fabulously the entire 15 years. I can't compare it to any other players mentioned so far, nor to current JVC players, but I plan to use mine until it falls off of a moving truck or something. This is NOT a rack mount. But, if you want a good product, at a decent price, here you go.

Oldmics
09-07-2004, 11:18 AM
From Bo

"The brochure mentions 1995 - I cannot Google this thing, at all. Is it NLA?

Or was it "NWA"... "

Although I did see one at a show-I don"t know if it was a working item or a prop.

I would say NWA
(Never Wus Availiable)

Oldmics

Hofmannhp
09-07-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Ken Pachkowsky
Hi all

My new speaker stands with built in racks are almost done. Can anyone suggest a 19in rack mount cd player that has good overall performance?

Must play all standard format cd's yada yada.

Thanks

Hi Ken,

well understanding what kind of look you prefer (19" and very technical) the fastening of any CD-player in a rack near the speakers is sometimes a problem for the rumble bumble feedback to the CD chassis over the mounting ears. Thats the reason why most CD-players use shock absorbing feet.
I would put the player in the rack on a board and close the sides to the rack rails by some metall sheets.

HP

10 Watt Street
09-07-2004, 11:44 AM
The Sony CDP-D11 mentioned above is based on the transport from the top Sony car CD player, so it has good isolation and shock mounting built in. Since it only takes 1 rack space, it is very handy. Sounds good, though it is even better driving an Apogee D/A.

still4given
09-07-2004, 11:45 AM
I use a Denon rack mount CD player. Probably designed for DJs, but it works very well. XLR's, RCA,s and SPDIF. It's a two rack space unit.

Look at this. (http://www.topdjgear.com/dendnsincdmp.html)

Not like mine but I bet it will play friendly.

Blessings, Terry

delahais
09-08-2004, 05:41 AM
hi,
do you know linn ikemi, i think it's a very good cd player, but you can't put it in a rack.
regards.

Figge
09-17-2004, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by still4given
I use a Denon rack mount CD player. Probably designed for DJs, but it works very well. XLR's, RCA,s and SPDIF. It's a two rack space unit.

Look at this. (http://www.topdjgear.com/dendnsincdmp.html)

Not like mine but I bet it will play friendly.

Blessings, Terry


Hi i also have a Denon! a DN2000F Dual cd. had it for a while and like it. i uninstalled it a while ago to try out some other cd:s a cheap teac and a high end yamaha. i thought the yamaha was fine...until today when i reinstalled the denon. uncompareble to those others. it has very good bass. it really gets down there and boogie! the yamaha had a more muddy feeling down there.

all in all the denon is very clean! and rack mount 2x2 RU.
and pretty cheap! and made to play nonstop music!

drawbacks? well no "stop" button. but why would i want that? keep on rockin´!

Ken Pachkowsky
09-27-2004, 12:24 PM
On Bo's suggestion, I purchased a brand new Sony CDP-D11 and have listened to one cd. My intial impression is very pos. This is a fine sounding player. As mentioned, the transport is very high quality. This unit is quite hefty for its size.

I will be posting pictures of the new racks etc. as soon as everything is installed.

PS: I bought this from a guy on Ebay (gb-jeff) who picked up several on a deal. He said they were used but mine is flawless and has all original sealed bags etc. I would swear this was never out of the box. Even the foam filler was still in the battery compartment for the remote. I paid 310.00 BIN. If your interested keep your eyes open, he may post more?

Nice to be home!

Ken

scott fitlin
09-27-2004, 12:32 PM
I want to get an SACD player, they sound great! Limited amount of music available is the one pitfall, as well as prices of machines, but they have come down somewhat!

I have ordered my self a toy, the AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000. Very economical considering the league this unit is playing in, and I ordered it with all the trimmings, 24/192Khz upsampler, special feet, set of different tubes to play around with, their recommended AC power cord!

I always read consisitently good reveiws about this thing, and am curious to hear the tubes effect on CD!

Ken Pachkowsky
09-27-2004, 12:34 PM
Keep us posted...

Sounds very interesting.

scott fitlin
09-27-2004, 12:37 PM
if you want to look at it, www.upscaleaudio.com. And theres this website with a terrific selection of music, everything you could want from classical, jazz, to rock, etc! DVD-A, SACD, 120 gram to 200 gram vinyl. www.acousticsounds.com. COMPREHENSIVE catalog!

Earl K
09-27-2004, 02:34 PM
On Bo's suggestion, I purchased a brand new Sony CDP-D11 and have listened to one cd. My intial impression is very pos. This is a fine sounding player. As mentioned, the transport is very high quality. This unit is quite hefty for its size.

How ironic, today I was finally going to post my impressions about a couple of the previously mentioned CD players - but I thought this was now all old news.

I own a pair of these Sony CDP D11 players. They have been superceeded by the CDP D12 model ( FWIW ) . I'd also recommend purchasing one of the following models ( if in good mechanical shape ) from the Studer/Revox series: the A-725/6/7 models , or B-225/6/7 . Compared to the Sony, the Revox/Studer has a "faster" ,"colder" presentation along with the "tightest" imaging I've heard from a CD player. The electronics in this machine made my twin 15" woofers start jumping as if a compressor had been backed-off from a set 2 to 1 ratio , down to "no" compression. This was apparent even with the Revox run through my Mackie 1202 mixer. Driving the electronic crossover directly with the variable out from the player was somewhat akin to opening the door to a working disco . All of this can be disconcerting for "easy listening" - hence the need for the "broader, warmer" fuller sound from the Sony".


I paid 310.00 BIN. If your interested keep your eyes open, he may post more? Ken

I consider that a great price , considering the sonics, functionallity and build quality of the Sony unit . BTW, the Sony units can be quite picky about playing CDs with a certain quantity of disc "errors". ie their tolerance threshold is quite a bit lower than the typical ( I'll play anything ) player from "Best Buy". "Error Correction" on the Revox stuff from the late eighties didn't exist - the machine just plows ahead playing whatever and doing it's best to reconstruct music - though sometimes the reproduced waveform can get a might distorted. As opposed to the Sony machine which just refuses to play error filled discs/songs.

So there you have it, a typical - buy "one of each" - bit of advice .

regards <> Earl K

boputnam
09-27-2004, 05:03 PM
I f anyone is looking, Sony has discontinued this line - and the companion recorders, too. :( But, a few weeks ago, I found a cache of these at Broadcast Supply Worldwide.

http://www.bswusa.com/prod_item.asp?item=CDPD12

"Shannon" told me they had over a dozen in PHYSICAL inventory - wow, remember that business concept...? - so this may be the last of these, anywhere, since most resellers drop-ship from the manufacturer. Shannon quoted a better price over the phone, than shown on the website.

Earl K
09-27-2004, 05:33 PM
If anyone is looking, Sony has discontinued this line

Yeh, I thought as much. A while back, I looked for this line of products at SONY USA & Canada - using their builtin "inscrutable" search engine. The experience reminded me of why here in Canada , Sony "Pro" long ago attained the moniker of "Soon Or Not Yet". :D

<> Earl K

speakerdave
09-28-2004, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by scott fitlin
24/192Khz upsampler
192 kHz sounds like a lot until you remember the actual sampling rate for Direct Stream Digital (SACD) is 2.9 million per second.

Is upsampling interpolation?

David

scott fitlin
09-28-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by speakerdave
192 kHz sounds like a lot until you remember the actual sampling rate for Direct Stream Digital (SACD) is 2.9 million per second.

Is upsampling interpolation?

David I agree SACD is superior still, but the Njoe Tjoeb is supposed to sound very musical, and with the upsampler quite detailed without being overly bright, according to the website, and Kevin Deal, who I spoke to, the upsampler is a true upsampler in the sense that it actually takes the 16 bit wordlength is upsamples it to 24 bits!

I want an SACD player too, but, as good as they sound, and they do sound great, not much music available that I can actually play at my buisiness!

I am keeping my two turnatables, I cant let go of vinyl, and as long as they make it, Ill play it. But I am going to refine the art of CD playback for my buisiness as well, during this winter. CD,s have become a fact of life, and while SACD is in fact phenomenal sounding, Hip Hop, House, and Reggae, R & B, and pop as well as classic disco, arent much available on SACD, yet. If more titles across a broader range of music does become available, Ill jump right into SACD! But for now, I must replace my Dual DJ CD player, I replace them every two years, and Im also adding the Technics SLDZ digital CD turntable to my console in between the two turntables!

The Ah! Njoe Tjoeb is not for DJing, but is for just when I want to play something special, and make the CD really stand out! Think Marvin Gaye, or something really worth hearing, and hearing well!

www.upscaleaudio.com

speakerdave
09-29-2004, 12:59 AM
All SACD players will play the old kind also. It's a simple matter to find one whose "Redbook" CD playing you like as well, and then one is ready for the SACD releases as they come, which they are doing at an increasing rate.

I'm not particularly worried about you, because you can probably buy one any time you like, but the way you refer to the SACD part of the market you seem to be implying that a SACD player is limiting because there are relatively fewer titles in that format than the old format, but the truth is just the opposite.

Anyone who buys a new DVD or CD player that cannot play SACD is unnecessarily limiting himself to a part of the digital technology that, though still widespread, is demonstrably inferior. The great thing is that Super Audio CD players can play regular CD's as well. They are available in all price ranges--I have seen them for as little as $150. You do not have to keep two players or give up the old format while the new one is developing market share. You can have both formats permanently in one machine and never need to discard the CD's you already own. In fact you can continue to buy new CD's in the old format as long as they are available. if you wish. In the mean time you will be able to play the new releases on SACD that you want and experience the digital medium that CD wanted to be in the first place but could not because of the clash of technological limitation and marketing considerations. That day, now nearly 30 years ago, is past and there really is no point in sticking with the old system for new recordings except entropic commitment to outdated recording and playback equipment. And recordings that were originally analogue can be very favorably remastered to SACD. I have heard analogue recordings remastered in both SACD and the older extra-effort formats like JVC's XRCD and gold surfaced disks, etc. The improvement is not subtle at all. Anyone can hear it.

If you think about the history of audio formats about thirty years plus or minus ten has been a typical life span. Going back about thirty years from the mid 80's to the mid 50's the LP finally nailed the coffin lid on the 78 and a slightly longer period earlier the flat disc displaced the cylinder.

I can remember my Aunt Edna in the late fifties and her cabinet full of 78's. She refused to buy a new turntable that wouldn't grind the vinyl away from an LP, and besides the music she wanted was on the 78's. Well, that was her choice, but the superiority of the LP was obvious and its displacement of the 78 was inevitable.

You, Scott, probably already know all this (except the part about my Aunt Edna), but a lot of people may not, so I'm just trying to clarify. Any player equipped to play SACD's can also play the regular old format CD. You do not have to give up the old format to enjoy the benefits of SACD so it is not necessary to limit yourself to the outdated technology in order to continue to use your existing CD library.

Regards,

David

still4given
09-29-2004, 06:35 AM
Hey David,

You make some good points about the SACD but doesn't it also require at least a 5.1 setup to really get the benefit of the SACD? I built a "Listening Room" here at Universal Music Group, specifically for the purpose of the development of the SACD format. I must admit that music that is mastered properly for this system sounds amazing, but much of the time, good ol' stereo still sounds more real and pleasant to my ears.

Like you said, the SACD will still play great stereo CD's as well, but I think you have to upgrade you system in order to really take advantage of the SACD player.

Blessings, Terry

scott fitlin
09-29-2004, 11:45 AM
I did already know that an SACD machine CAN play red book CD,s, but I was waiting for more pop music availability on actual SACD,s!

However, I could just jump into SACD as well, its no sweat!

But I dont wish to spend $3500 or better on a machine, either! So, Dave which SACD player do you recommend?

I was listening to SACD on the Sony machine in an audio shop, some classical recordings, man the pianos sounded like analog recordings, real natural, very vibrant and full bodied, minus the noise! Very worthwhile to listen to, but, I fear, the music industry WILL NOT adopt this format for the pop cultures of music, as it requires an expenditure of major monies to get them setup to do SACD, as well as music industry people have told me we probably wont see pop music done in SACD format! Not on a large commercial scale!

I admit SACD has the sound, though! As for the CD player with Tubed output section, well, Im curious to hear this, supposed to be very musically involving, and for the price, couldnt be beat! Fully loaded, all the tricks, $1200 plus shipping!

speakerdave
09-29-2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by still4given
. . . . doesn't it also require at least a 5.1 setup to really get the benefit of the SACD?
Blessings, Terry
Hey. . . . blessings to you too!

No. SACD is a technology for digitally recording, storing and retrieving musical information. The number of channels is a separate decision made at the time of the original recording. The point of SACD is the QUALITY of the sound, not the number of channels. There are multichannel SACD's, yes, so you can have 5.1 and more if you want it, but they can be played on a two-channel system, with the player sorting all the information into the two channels. Many SACD releases are two channel stereo and there are a few, re-releases, that are mono because that is the format of the original master tapes. Super Audio is used because that is the best way to digitally extract the information available on the original 15 and 30 ips master tapes no matter how many separate channels there are. It is also the best technology for digitally processing the acoustic information that can be picked up by a microphone.


Originally posted by still4given
SACD will still play great stereo CD's

Yes, but you are confusing the terminology here. I assume by "stereo" you mean two-channel, and by "stereo CD" you mean the old technology brought on line in the 80's. As I noted above the SACD format can be used to make any number of channels, so "stereo CD" is not a differentiation of digital recording and playback technologies. It is more accurate to refer to the old CD technology as PCM, or pulse code modulation, sometimes also referred to as Redbook--I'm not sure why.


Originally posted by still4given
I think you have to upgrade your system in order to really take advantage of the SACD player.
I don't think so, and that opinion is based on my experience. Really speaking, it would have to depend on how bad or good your system is wouldn't it?

Still, if a person is listening to a grungy system every link is contributing its share of grung. If he fixes one link, right away he is listening to less grung. And if he fixes the source first he continues to get greater rewards when fixing all the downstream links.

It might help to understand how the PCM CD format was arrived at in the first place.

--The 5" disc was selected to fit into the dashboard space already granted to the radio/cassette player.

--A capacity of 70 minutes of music was selected so that it was longer than almost all LP's

The disc making technology of the time was digital, but it was a linear format that occupied a certain amount of space on the disc for a minute of music. That amount of space could be varied only by varying the number of times per second the analogue signal was sampled. When the BBC looked at the technology their response was that to do this right for frequency response and the integrity of the sound you will get a maximum of 8 minutes of music on the 5" disc. The sampling rate was lowered until the 70 minute target was reached, and that's where the standard came from.

Remember when digital movies were on 12" discs? Since that time the DVD type of storage has been developed, and as I understand it, the SACD uses a similar method, enabling the storage on a 5" disc of a vastly greater amount of information--a movie or 70+ minutes of music sampled at 2.9 million/second.

So, as I said in my first post, there is no reason to stay with the old PCM technology except inertia. The SACD technology is a great improvement in the storage and retrieval of musical information.

David

speakerdave
09-29-2004, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by scott fitlin
I dont wish to spend $3500 or better on a machine, either! So, Dave which SACD player do you recommend?

$3500?!?!?! Where did that come from? Even the Marantz play everything player is only about $1400. Good players are available for well under $1000. I have not followed the market in detail, so I cannot recommend players.

I got into SACD about three years ago and bought a Philips SA1000. As I understand it this is one of the players developed to launch the technology and at the time it was being sold off for about $1000, so I think I was lucky to get a bargain. But the same level of playback has been incorporated into less expensive players by Philips and other companies (chiefly Sony, co-developer with Philips of both the SACD and the PCM CD).


Originally posted by scott fitlin
. . . . the music industry WILL NOT adopt this format for the pop cultures of music, as it requires an expenditure of major monies to get them setup to do SACD, as well as music industry people have told me we probably wont see pop music done in SACD format! Not on a large commercial scale!

Yeah, right! Or as Marie Antionette said regarding the starving common people, "Let them eat flavorless starch"!

Originally posted by scott fitlin
I was listening to SACD on the Sony machine in an audio shop, some classical recordings, man the pianos sounded like analog recordings, real natural, very vibrant and full bodied, minus the noise!
Exactly! That's it!

Originally posted by scott fitlin
As for the CD player with Tubed output section, well, I'm curious to hear this, supposed to be very musically involving, and for the price, couldnt be beat! Fully loaded, all the tricks, $1200 plus shipping!
I don't blame you at all. I would be curious too. I just want the straight story about SACD to get out.

David

Oldmics
09-29-2004, 08:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by scott fitlin
As for the CD player with Tubed output section, well, I'm curious to hear this,

I have an old Carver CD player (SD/A-390t) with a tube output section.It uses a pair of 6DJ8 tubes.Kinda neat.I think I am more impressed by converter interpetation than the tube fluff.

Winter"s comin-Time to get the tubes a glowin

Oldmics

scott fitlin
09-29-2004, 09:10 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by scott fitlin
. . . . the music industry WILL NOT adopt this format for the pop cultures of music, as it requires an expenditure of major monies to get them setup to do SACD, as well as music industry people have told me we probably wont see pop music done in SACD format! Not on a large commercial scale!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yeah, right! Or as Marie Antionette said regarding the starving common people, "Let them eat flavorless starch"!


The music labels arent adopting the new technology so fast. Right now all you have out there on SACD is audiophile music titles, not very much of NOW,s music available!

I want it all! Everything. If they did adopt SACD as the industry standard, music could sound great again!

As for player pricing, I havent checked in a while, i will go see whats available!

I know I can get fritz reiner on SACD, even some classic rock, but I want TODAYS music recorded and engineered with this technology!

Excuse me while I go listen to something through some newly reconed Altec in VOTT cabinets, found me vintage kits for all my speakers! You should hear how todays music sounds through yesterdays Altec! No shit, it,s happening!

But, SACD is good, really good!

speakerdave
09-29-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by scott fitlin
I want TODAYS music recorded and engineered with this technology!
Yeah, me too. I hope it happens.

David