Whatever Happened To The Audiophile?

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/05/134256592/whatever-happened-to-the-audiophile

"There are still people willing to drop a large chunk of their income on the best audio equipment available, says music professor Mark Katz. "That said," he adds, "the landscape — or perhaps soundscape — has changed."

Then came the barbaric revolution.

Loudness became more important than clarity. The richness and warmth of a recording was replaced by tinniness and splash.

[4313B]

Thanks for the link. Interesting comments.

[pyonc]

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.
Most of the forum members here are definitely audiophiles...

[Ducatista47]

I have learned from these comments that there are many NPR fans who can think for themselves. Nice range of comments. A few of mine...

It seems the multitasking lifestyle, that is not sitting down and listening to music by itself, does narrow the demographic for high fidelity music enjoyment. You don't need hifi for background music.

You also don't need it to reproduce junk carefully. It speaks volumes that the industry was astonished when a lot of frequently downloaded music started to cost something and sales vanished. People will eat a so-so meal for free but won't pay restaurant prices for it, if they know anything about their choices.

The loudness war sure demonstrates the lack of knowledge and experience among listeners. No one cares when no one knows the difference.

Analogue, it should be remembered, is equivalent to about 13 bit resolution. It has its charms, but GOOD well done digital has much more potential. I too lament the apparent death of the technology behind SACD, the Sony DSD system that Telarc was using. Megahertz capture beats analogue tape every time. For a system that came about as a response to theft it sure sounds nice.

[Rolf]

Very interesting indeed. The audiophiles still exists, but most are "under ground". In the 60's, 70's and 80's the audiophiles was "shining from a mountain top" for everybody to see. Now days the "crowd" has to dig to find them (us) that still listen to music on 2 channel in a quiet room.

My thoughts.


Thanks for the link. Very interesting.
Most of the forum members here are definitely audiophiles...

[Fort Knox]

Don't forget the rattling tags... on that Toyota
Big Subs are at large out there ...and the Auto
Cars Stereo thing has created a HUGE industry
all by itself...gives the Street Guy a BIG Sound image...:bouncy:

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks 'Wolf... very interesting.

I do think it odd that so many on this Forum consider "Audiophile" a derogatory term. The point of our hobby is generally centered around the enjoyment of music. The fact that many of us have at least briefly lost sight of that at one time or another doesn't decrease our love of music. Regardless, the passion for recreating high quality musical events in our homes, or places of business, is absolutely the definition of being an "Audiophile". You don't have to worship at the alter of expensive audio bling to be an "Audiophile".

This link is somewhat related and also interesting. I Am an Audiophile. (http://www.stereophile.com/content/i-am-audiophile)


Widget

[grumpy]

You don't have to worship at the alter of expensive audio bling to be an "Audiophile".

And yet that is the stereotype (pun intended). It is somewhat rare
to find an audiophile that doesn't have at least a mild case of
equipment-philia... or isn't in pursuit of what a former forumite
referred to as the gonadotropic effect; subconsciously or not.

I prefer an active pursuit of satisfaction and enjoyment, vs. a
pursuit of perfection (doomed to failure and disappointment).
...which, perhaps not so surprisingly, happens to support my
fondness for both new and old :)

Wishing all the best for 2012!

[Mr. Widget]

And yet that is the stereotype (pun intended). It is somewhat rare
to find an audiophile that doesn't have at least a mild case of
equipment-philia... I think the perception of the audiophile by the uninitiated is a guy who isn't particularly successful with members of the fairer sex who listens to reel to reel tapes and big speakers... I don't think most "normal" people are even aware of speaker wire elevators and $1K interconnects.

As for getting caught up in the gear... you bet, but that gear can be stacked Advents just as easily as a pair of glossy Wilsons.


Widget

[hjames]

Thanks 'Wolf... very interesting.

I do think it odd that so many on this Forum consider "Audiophile" a derogatory term. The point of our hobby is generally centered around the enjoyment of music. The fact that many of us have at least briefly lost sight of that at one time or another doesn't decrease our love of music. Regardless, the passion for recreating high quality musical events in our homes, or places of business, is absolutely the definition of being an "Audiophile". You don't have to worship at the alter of expensive audio bling to be an "Audiophile".

This link is somewhat related and also interesting. I Am an Audiophile. (http://www.stereophile.com/content/i-am-audiophile)


Widget

I like to be considered a music apprecianado -

tho Steve Vollmer has us local folks building altars of Audiophilia ...

[Mr. Widget]

I like to be considered a music apprecianado - Of course you do... most of us would prefer to be thought of that way. The fact is some of us are... and are also "audiophiles". If you were only a music lover, you'd be content with an iPod, earbuds, and an endless stream if music.


Widget

[grumpy]

... I don't think most "normal" people are even aware of speaker wire elevators and $1K interconnects.

As it should be (IMO).

Stacked Advents or Wilson's? Yep ... I am not free from
"guilt" in this regard :)

[SEAWOLF97]

As for getting caught up in the gear... you bet, but that gear can be stacked Advents just as easily as a pair of glossy Wilsons.
Widget

I could get caught up in it if there were stacked Wilsons or a pair of glossy Advents.. ;)

[Ian Mackenzie]

I do think it odd that so many on this Forum consider "Audiophile" a derogatory term.


I think that depends on who is making the statement and why?

For example a dealer or someone wanting to turnover hfi stock will refer to someone as an audiophile if they visit their store or even hangout as a window shopper.

I agree with one of the comments in that the article is removed from reality in as much that if frequency of usage and equipment change over was an indicator then diy audio buff maybe the core at the moment.

In the cold winters there are literally thousands of hot soldering irons on of an evening building amps.

A lot of people who aspire to good sound are building amps and speakers these days.

As Rolf says a lot of it is underground now and its demographic specific.Of course technology has tickled down and spread over a broader market today in as much that pre 1980 hifi was a very specific category with relatively few manufacurers and very expensive and was seen as elitist.

Whereas today there is a much broader range of very good sound quality equipment that is far better then the pre 1980 equipment and then there is ultra expensive Hi end where the law of diminishing returns prevail.Has anyone listened to a Leak or Quad value amp kit recently?Back in the 70s marketing was much more prolific when Dolby was a buzz word and everyone aspired to a Tandberg reel to reel machine.

Interestingly at least in Australia there has been a growing presence of hifi class sound equipment in shops in the past 18 months and I hope that continues.

So what are we doing here? Well I think the conventional audiophile would call us Hoons or the Harley Davidson end of audiophilia.

[Titanium Dome]

I often wonder why an old thread like this gets resurrected. It sits dormant for months, falling further and further down from the active threads, and then it pops back up in an odd fashion. I guess it's the title or a keyword that someone is looking for, or maybe folks really do use the search engine or plod through all the threads to see what's down "in the basement" so to speak?

This thread lasted slightly less than three days way back in March... and here it is!

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In any event, when self-describing I like the term "audio enthusiast" borrowed from the descriptors offered over at audioreview.com just below audiophile. Truth be told, I do consider myself an audiophile in the original sense of "lover of audio," which I am. Of course, I'm as much a lover of audio listening to my iPod through my car as I am listening to Performance Series or the K2s, because it is, after all, the music that matters.

Nonetheless, I am also a bit of a technophile, a lover of technology. So I'm constantly looking at new tech and improved gear. I'm not induced to buy the prettiest, most expensive, or even the absolute best (does it exist?) in an orgy of accumulation, but I am interested in the best return on investment. How far can I go and not end up in the "now you're wasting money" category?

I'll bow in Zich's direction and liberate his econo philosophy from DIY and tech stuff in general.

I'm an audio-techno-econophile.

[Fort Knox]

Mr. Widget




I think the perception of the audiophile by the uninitiated is a guy who isn't particularly successful with members of the fairer sex

Widget

That's got to be about 50% of this forum.....

[JeffW]

Hey Ian

you have lots of great knowledge to share and its quite interesting, BUT it's very hard to read..:eek:

could you hit "enter" or CR every now and then to make a little air in the big block of text ?

thx


I'm not sure what the deal is since the upgrade, but my sentences all get bunched together even though I put breaks in the text.

[Mr. Widget]

I'm an audio-techno-econophile.Dome, I think you really do know who you are... :D

I suppose I am a bit of a technophobe, though I certainly have embraced my iPod with lossless files and a good DAC.
Econophile... I don't think I'd ever be mistaken for one, though I drive a diesel VW and often hand make my Christmas gifts.

Am I an audiophile? Yep, and not ashamed to be called a lover of audio. I am one with zipcord speaker wire and a mix of new and used gear. I do love music, listening to live and recorded as often as I can, but I have to admit my record collection is my next area to focus on in my playback chain.


Widget

[hjames]

Hey Ian

you have lots of great knowledge to share and its quite interesting, BUT it's very hard to read..:eek:

could you hit "enter" or CR every now and then to make a little air in the big block of text ?

thx

I have many of my posts since the new upgrade get chunked together, even tho they started with proper returns and line feeds.

Perhaps if you go back and edit afterwords its drops all the formatting characters.

But its def a recent "innovation"

[Eaulive]

I'm an audio-techno-econophile.

I, for one, am a basshead :D
54248

[4343]

I often wonder why an old thread like this gets resurrected. It sits dormant for months, falling further and further down from the active threads, and then it pops back up in an odd fashion. I guess it's the title or a keyword that someone is looking for, or maybe folks really do use the search engine or plod through all the threads to see what's down "in the basement" so to speak?

This thread lasted slightly less than three days way back in March... and here it is!

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...


I think you may have it there with "in the basement". I often scroll down to see the "Similar Threads" links, and hardly ever look at the dates... (There's one down there now called "What is an Audiophile?" from 2008.

[Rolf]

:applaud::applaud::applaud:
Dome, I think you really do know who you are... :D

I suppose I am a bit of a technophobe, though I certainly have embraced my iPod with lossless files and a good DAC.
Econophile... I don't think I'd ever be mistaken for one, though I drive a diesel VW and often hand make my Christmas gifts.

Am I an audiophile? Yep, and not ashamed to be called a lover of audio. I am one with zipcord speaker wire and a mix of new and used gear. I do love music, listening to live and recorded as often as I can, but I have to admit my record collection is my next area to focus on in my playback chain.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

Perhaps a definition of an audiophile is required:What is an audiophile?


Quote"We play my solid 256kbps VBR MP3 of "Heroes" off my iPod; it sounds like shit. Free of pops and crackles, yes, but completely lifeless, flat in every way. This is the detail that matters: Audiophiles are basically synesthesiacs. They "see" music in three-dimensional visual space. You close your eyes in Fremer's chair, and you can perceive a detailed 3D matrix of sound, with each element occupying its own special space in the air. It's crazy and I've never experienced anything like it.

It is within this 3D space where the audiophile lives and operates, and spends all his money. Fremer himself is the first to admit that it would only take $3,000 to $5,000 to build a system that will be deeply satisfying to most music fans. On a scale of 1 to 100 completely of my own devising, let's put this system at around 85. Now, imagine that you've tasted 85, and you want to go higher; you want Bowie's cries of kissing by the wall to inhabit the most perfect point in your system's matrix, and Bryan Ferry's back-up fly girls on "Avalon" to flank him just beautifully. That, friends, is where you might end up paying hundreds of thousands.

Our little scale, unfortunately, is logarithmic, in that going from zero to 85 doesn't take a lot of effort or money, but going from 98.6 to 99.1 by swapping out a $2,600 AC power cable for a $4,000 one becomes a justifiable end. We did exactly that, and I strained to hear any difference at all (more impressions of our test will follow later in the week), but to Fremer, the difference was abundantly clear—not necessarily better with the more expensive cable, but different, a warmer, fuller sound, as Fremer described it. Here's the breakdown of his current listening-room hardware:

The point is, people like Fremer can not only hear the difference, they crave it.

This obsession with tiny differences explains Fremer's fevered defense of analog music sources over digital. ":

[Rolf]

I think you know Ian. (What a audiophile is) It's a person take care a little more than most regarding the quality of sound.

[Robh3606]

Perhaps a definition of an audiophile is required:What is an audiophile?




Hello Ian

That paragraph is exactly why the term Audiophile gets peoples backs up. You don't have to spend $100,000 of dollars to get there. It's a mind set that can't be defined by dollars, fashion or what have you. The only point that matters is this


The point is, people like Fremer can not only hear the difference, they crave it.

They crave it is what makes the distinction not how much money they dropped getting there.

Rob:)

[Mr. Widget]

They crave it is what makes the distinction not how much money they dropped getting there. I am not sure that we all crave improvements or even differences in sound, but everyone on this forum spends an exceptional amount of time and effort in the reproduction of music or movie soundtracks even if we don't spend piles of cash doing so... though that is relative. $200 for a pair of speakers is chicken feed to some and a real extravagance to others.


Widget

[Robh3606]

Hello Widget

Crave may be the wrong word but the point is we enjoy doing it. The focus should not be on the amount of money it takes to get "there". The article start's off saying that most would be happy with a 3K-5K system. Then goes on the say that to get X point you may have the spend 100K's and then goes on about switching out power cords that cost as much as the 3-5K system.

Why is most of the content aimed at justifying the cost and not about the hobby?? The implication to me is to be an audiophile you need to spend money. That's complete BS, you can't use the amount of money someone spends as yard stick on their passion.


Rob

[Lee in Montreal]

Let me twist the question. What happened to the Japanese audiophile production? It seems production has shifted to 100% mass production, while in the 1970s, big Japanese brands were also producing some of these great audiophile products that we would be lucky to hear.

"Although Technics' own response graphs show a sharp fall after 22Khz, frequency response is said to extend to 36Khz."

http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-10000.html

http://rarehifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2.jpg
http://my.reset.jp/%7Einu/ProductsDataBase/Products/Technics/LINEAR_PHASE_SP/Technics-speaker-sys-04.jpg

[Mr. Widget]

Why is most of the content aimed at justifying the cost and not about the hobby?? The implication to me is to be an audiophile you need to spend money. That's complete BS, you can't use the amount of money someone spends as yard stick on their passion.I agree completely that the amount spent is a terrible metric for gaging one's passion. We have customers who are very wealthy who have a half a million dollars worth of curtains in their homes... are they passionate about drapes? Of course not, they just buy what seems appropriate for their home and to their income level and what they are shown by their designers.

I'd suggest the article drifted towards the cost as it is the easiest metric to convey passion in a short article. I doubt that the author intended the message to be that an "audiophile is one who spends ridiculous amounts of money on audio gear." I think we'd all agree that Stereophile is directed towards audiophiles, and while they make their living recommending expensive gear that pays for expensive advertisements, they also have articles on restoring old Advents, and the sonic virtues of some of the old pieces of audio gear from the golden age of Hi Fi... these pieces are for those of us who have all of the passion but who aren't interested in mortgaging the house for a pair of Wilsons.


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

I think we'd all agree that Stereophile is directed towards audiophiles, and while they make their living recommending expensive gear that pays for expensive advertisements, they also have articles on restoring old Advents,

Widget

I've been reading Stereophile 4 or 5 years now and while they do have a column called "The Entry Level" , that has only been a development in the last year or so and mostly in response to all the reader feedback complaining about the writers living in an audio fantasy land.

[speakerdave]

The Golden Ages of audio have been only occasional blips on the screen because civilization must be paid for, and it is only occasionally that significant numbers of people with good taste and good sense have generous quantities of discretionary income. In the closing phases of renaissances, demonstrating both Sturgeon's Revelation and Gresham's Law, the people who want to make $30M annually running corporations view the people who will buy the 90% of everything that is crap as a neglected market, so the economies of mass production never apply to the really good stuff.

I think there's some truth to William Morris's assertion that the human being is happiest when he is making something useful with his hands. Since the contingencies of my experience more or less compelled me to acquire some modest skills an easy analysis quickly led me to think that if I could get the drivers and the information necessary I could build some speakers which might kiss about the boundaries of 'world class' at a cost very much below retail. It hasn't turned out to be that easy, but with some help from friends here and elsewhere it's been worthwhile.

As to how other people might feel about the money spent, I couldn't care less, especially when listening to Mozart or Clifford Brown or Joni Mitchell. I'm pretty certain the sound I'm getting couldn't have been acquired for less, so the amount is right.

The problem I have with the word "audiophile" is that it has been used by advertisers to valorize the focus on equipment, the slippery edge of our hobby, and to define an elite membership you can acquire by buying their stuff. It's not a new thing that language gets trounced with misuse and overuse, so I just ignore it. It's not that great a word anyway. The payoff for me is always in getting back to the music. And that is one reason why for me the system building stretches into the years. It's the long plateaus during which I'm listening to music that take the time. It's only when I've come to be distracted from the music by something in the sound that I start gearing up or tweaking. I really don't do a lot of critical listening otherwise.

[Mr. Widget]

I've been reading Stereophile 4 or 5 years now and while they do have a column called "The Entry Level" , that has only been a development in the last year or so and mostly in response to all the reader feedback complaining about the writers living in an audio fantasy land.Art Dudley wrote about restoring Advents in May of 2010 (http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/listening_89/index.html). I agree these articles appear sporadically at best, but the business of producing a mainstream magazine and selling them at the cover price that they do, requires advertising dollars to cover the production, mailing, and salaries. I am afraid they can only afford to "give away" so much column space.

Obviously companies like HH Scott and the like are no longer around to buy advertising... then there is the exotica quotient. Look at the car mags, the uber expensive sports cars get far more attention than the actual sales numbers would suggest is appropriate. Obviously there are quite a few "armchair" audiophiles who like to read and dream about Everests and the like.


Widget

[louped garouv]

I think there's some truth to William Morris's assertion that the human being is happiest when he is making something useful with his hands. Since the contingencies of my experience more or less compelled me to acquire some modest skills an easy analysis quickly led me to think that if I could get the drivers and the information necessary I could build some speakers which might kiss about the boundaries of 'world class' at a cost very much below retail. It hasn't turned out to be that easy, but with some help from friends here and elsewhere it's been worthwhile.



ain't that the truth... a great learning experience indeed....

:yes:

[moparfan]

Yes, I know it isn't exactly the same but there are many avenues there in the pursuit of the best.

High-end is difficult to get into as the only entry is through dealers who seemingly are anti-social.

[Titanium Dome]

High-end is difficult to get into as the only entry is through dealers who seemingly are anti-social.


Except for those amiable, affable gents at Design Interaction… Of course, that only helps if you are within a few hundred miles of SF Bay.

[Robh3606]

Except for those amiable, affable gents at Design Interaction… Of course, that only helps if you are within a few hundred miles of SF Bay.

To bad for the rest of them. I used to just about hang out in my local shops. I was in them at least once a week for a chat in the day. They are all gone and the ones I have been in just aren't to friendly.

Rob:)

[Hey19]

And a host of other pioneers from the golden age of audio isn't audiophilia, I don't know what is. :dont-know: I didn't partake of these masterpieces on the first go round in the 60's and 70's, so I'm doing it now. Obviously, sites like this keep introducing newbys to the best the golden age had to offer.

[tomt]

must be a generation type thing.

from the article -



Listening to music used to be a plop-down, stay-still event.
Now it's something people do while doing something else,
like eating while driving or chatting on a phone while walking.


frank zappa said -

music has now become wallpaper

for peoples lives ...

[Rolf]

He is one of my favorites. (FZ). He was ahead of his time. And as you stated, he is right! To bad he put down his sword so early.






frank zappa said -

music has now become wallpaper

for peoples lives ...

[Ducatista47]

I think this is the number one reason why sound quality has declined in importance, in more ways than one. No need for high fidelity with background/multitasked music. Parties too. A room full of people talking with a Bose Wave radio in the background usually generates lots of compliments about the sound of the radio.



must be a generation type thing.

from the article -


Listening to music used to be a plop-down, stay-still event.
Now it's something people do while doing something else,
like eating while driving or chatting on a phone while walking.


frank zappa said -

music has now become wallpaper

for peoples lives ...