Bionic 4313B's

[4313B]

I was wondering if I could ask your advice on something I've been thinking about lately, I may start a thread on it but I did want to ask you first. I have a pair of 4313Bs that I like very much (my favorite model actually) but I was wondering if there is any way to try to make them sound even better. Mine are pretty beat up (the cabs) so I was wondering if it would be worthwile to do a new crossover but charge coupled this time. Have you done anything like this and do you think its even worth the bother. Are there any other modifications that you could recomend?

Thanks for your timeBionic 4313B's... :rotfl: That's a good one. :p

I'm not sure if I posted about my latest pair of 4313B's, probably because they aren't completely finished. But here's what I have so far:

[4313B]

The networks are charge-coupled and they cost more than the entire system is worth but they sound damn good. They were purely proof of concept. Mirror imaged, ported on the back instead of the front, 120Ti sized box instead of 4313B sized box for that extra 5 Hz on the bottom end. :blah::blah::blah:

I might finish them one day. :dont-know:

The only way I can see where this is worth the time and effort is if you really love the loudspeaker and want to keep it until the day after forever. I can see no way to get your money back out of the endeavor. Mine have all fresh drivers, NOS 066's and 2105H's and fresh recones on the LE10H's. That's a ton of money right there. Add in the cost of the charge-coupled networks and you could probably buy something like a nice pair of 4430's for the same amount of money.

Oh, and one of the three NOS 066's was DOA so there's the cost of that too in this particular instance. :p

[JeffW]

That's a tidy network you got there!

[mikebake]

Your lovely work as usual, and there are, of course, those who would want these in spite of your cost analysis.

[Krunchy]

Thats exactly what I had in mind, those X-overs look great! :applaud:
Here's my predicament, I have two sets of 4313Bs both with cabs that need work.
One set is staying in my office & the other set I wanted to use in my living room where space is at a premium due to the layout of the house, lots of windows so its been on my mind as to where to place these. I'll post pictures later to illustrate my point.
In reality a smaller set would be ideal but I really want the sound quality of the 4313B in there. I was also thinking of maybe building a narrower enclosure but then I imagine it would have to be either taller & or deeper?! Plus I also wanted it to be more like the TIKs, with nice curves, a lot to ask for but might be a worthwhile endeavor.

I like the new L-pads, I would think about a re-cone once I recovered from the potential shock of the investment of the x-overs.


The only way I can see where this is worth the time and effort is if you really love the loudspeaker and want to keep it until the day after forever. I can see no way to get your money back out of the endeavor.
I think I qualify for the first statement for sure, the second part really does not figure into it since I have no intention to part with my 43s even in their less than pristine condition. :)



Your lovely work as usual, and there are, of course, those who would want these.

Yes! Like Meee! :bouncy:

[Wardsweb]

OCD execution (not that I know anything about that :rolleyes: )

Projects at this level are a labor of love and not about recovering your investment...except in pure enjoyment.

[Krunchy]

Projects at this level are a labor of love and not about recovering your investment...except in pure enjoyment.

Exactly! Thats what this little hobby of ours is all about as far as I'm concerned :)




I might finish them one day.

One day soon I would imagine, looks like you're basically there. ;)

[Chas]

Simply stunning 'B! You're giving me food for thought on maybe hot-rodding my 4411's.....:)

[Krunchy]

Hi Chas!

One thinks nothing of doing this on any of the larger systems 44XX & 43XX but any good system with a good foundation I think is worthy of this consideration. My 4313s look like they were manhandled none too kindly & I can only imagine at what volume levels they were played at. I cant help but think that upgrading the X-overs (charged or otherwise) would be a step in the right direction. Kind of like an audio "Makeover".

[JBL 4645]

Da da da daaaaaaa, da da da da da da da da daaaaaaaa

4318B, JBL. A speaker barely alive. Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic 4318B. JBL will be that speaker. Better than it was before. Better, stronger, louder!:D

I like the juicy crossover.:applaud:

[BMWCCA]

The quality, planning, care, and execution involved in those networks is simply astounding. I'd be tempted to leave them outside the box. Beautiful work!

50177

[DavidF]

"...I might finish them one day. :dont-know:
...
:p

Sure do have to finish them. A tribute model. The original taken to the ulitimate maturity.

[1audiohack]

Da da da daaaaaaa, da da da da da da da da daaaaaaaa

4318B, JBL. A speaker barely alive. Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic 4318B. JBL will be that speaker. Better than it was before. Better, stronger, louder!:D

Now that's funny!

[Robh3606]

Hello 4313B

Those look great! You have to finish them now:D or we will all keep buggin ya.


Hello Krunchy

If I had a pair I would do it. I think out of all the smaller systems we listened too the 4313 were the best.

Rob:)

[spkrman57]

Since there is limited JBL high-end systems around anymore I see this as the best direction to take.

Ron

[4343]

Bionic 4313B's... :rotfl: That's a good one. :p

I'm not sure if I posted about my latest pair of 4313B's, probably because they aren't completely finished. But here's what I have so far:

Great job! A bigger box makes the volume lost to all the caps moot as well.:blink:

I would want to use something like this:

http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1622692-holder-battery-1-cell-9v-bx0023.html (http://www.newark.com/bulgin/bx0023/battery-holder-9v-panel/dp/92C3807)

to preclude having to remove the woofer to change the battery. I've found that these will fit next to the binding posts on most cabinets with the rectangular cutout. I did have to mount through the back panel on my 4412A's, since the plastic plate is so small, but I seal the back of the battery box to make sure there were no leaks.

[Krunchy]

Hello 4313B

Those look great! You have to finish them now:D or we will all keep buggin ya.


Hello Krunchy

If I had a pair I would do it. I think out of all the smaller systems we listened too the 4313 were the best.

Rob:)

Hi Rob!
Absolutely, I agree, they sound so good as is, going "Bionic" would just enhance the whole listening experience and then some!. :)

I am really excited by the prospect.

[Audiobeer]

Krunchy, post some pics of the cabinets you are working with. If I can do better I'll be gad to help.

[Krunchy]

Hi Audiobeer, here is a shot that shows more of less their general shape, some of them have dented corners that need serious work.

[Audiobeer]

I PM'd you! Yours are definitely restorable (Cabinets) w/o veneering.

[JuniorJBL]

Once again we have Top Notch work.:thmbsup:

Nicely executed 4313b!! ;)

[Audiobeer]

Hi Audiobeer, here is a shot that shows more of less their general shape, some of them have dented corners that need serious work.

This could be the after.

[briang]

Bionic 4313B's... :rotfl: That's a good one. :p

I'm not sure if I posted about my latest pair of 4313B's, probably because they aren't completely finished. But here's what I have so far:

:jawdrop:So nice. Do want. :applaud:Outstanding work and dedication, as usual. Thank you for sharing.

[4313B]

Except for attaching the 4313B foilcals and painting and covering the grilles with cloth I did finish these.

I listened to them for several weeks, thought they were great compared with the stock 4313B's, and then parted them out. Spkrman57 took possession of the DIY 120Ti sized enclosures and the fresh LE10H's. I still have the rest of the components:

$80 for the pair of 066's (they come with a pair of black fronts and a pair of silver fronts)
$60 for the pair of 2105H's (they have black fronts)
$40 for the pair of LE5-9's (they have silver fronts)
$200 for the CC 3113B networks

[Robh3606]

I will take the 2105's off your hands

Rob:)

[Aaron]

Do the 066s fit in the same hole as 044s? Something doesn't look right in the pics I've seen and it would be a big deal to me as I have L96s I want to mod with this setup.

If your goodies will just drop into my L96s, I'll take the LE5-9s, the 066s and the networks.

[grumpy]

Do the 066s fit in the same hole as 044s?

Not without some cabinet work, IIRC.

[Aaron]

Thank you for the info,
I'll still take the crossovers and mids though. =o]

[grumpy]

Double check with 4313B. That was my recollection, having looked into
doing just what you proposed. I can measure them in a few hours if no
one has concurred by then.

[4313B]

The 066 mounts in a smaller cutout than the 044. Quite frankly I can't complain about either driver's performance. They are pretty damn good for phenolic domes.

The newer 044 used a copper coil to increase power handling. The older 066 used an aluminum coil to extend bandwidth. The 066 was also a PITA to service compared with the 044. The 066 was definitely a more expensive driver to produce and thus it had to go, lol. Plus it was absurdly easy to physically damage. Gotta love that screen over the later domes.

[Aaron]

Good to know.
I can only hear up to about 13k anyway, so sticking with the 044s makes sense.

PM sent about your parts for sale.

[4343]

The 066 mounts in a smaller cutout than the 044. Quite frankly I can't complain about either driver's performance. They are pretty damn good for phenolic domes.

The newer 044 used a copper coil to increase power handling. The older 066 used an aluminum coil to extend bandwidth. The 066 was also a PITA to service compared with the 044. The 066 was definitely a more expensive driver to produce and thus it had to go, lol. Plus it was absurdly easy to physically damage. Gotta love that screen over the later domes.

I'll take the 066's off your hands.

I like the grille on the L-166, lots of un-dented 066's to be found behind those... Thinking about reworking a pair into vertical mirror imaged. Maybe I'll look for some 10's while I'm at it.

[Audiobeer]

If someone hasn't spoke for your crossovers I'll buy them! :D If anyone has any loose LE10H speakers let's do some trading!!

[Malefoda]

Hi there!
As I'm starting to build a CC network for my 4313B (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?35182-4313B-s-066-in-need-of-a-miracle&p=358878&viewfull=1#post358878) and wonder which coils I may use (air core? Why still one OEM on 4313B's one?), same for L-Pads, having in mind the best bang/buck ratio, not the cheapest.
BTW, I have 10nF polystyrene caps, wonder if it is necessary to bypass the polypro caps or not...

[KLB]

Bionic 4313B's... :rotfl: That's a good one. :p

I'm not sure if I posted about my latest pair of 4313B's, probably because they aren't completely finished. But here's what I have so far:


Hi, my first post at this Amazing forum.
I have a pair of very good JBL L96, and looking into doing this x-over.
Is there a building tread somewhere?
The front of Your 4313b.... what is done here? Paint? New front plate?

[Malefoda]

Hi KLB,
beside this thread for a general project or
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?14674-Charge-coulpled-L96-3313B-crossovers
for xover modifications and even a BOM,
mine (like just above) for some pics of my CC'ed 3113B you won't find much more.
If I may give an advice start from scratch with new parts. I am more than happy with the parts I've used.
Open a thread and we will chime in ;)

[KLB]

Hi KLB,
beside this thread for a general project or
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?14674-Charge-coulpled-L96-3313B-crossovers
for xover modifications and even a BOM,
mine (like just above) for some pics of my CC'ed 3113B you won't find much more.
If I may give an advice start from scratch with new parts. I am more than happy with the parts I've used.
Open a thread and we will chime in ;)

Thanks a lot!
I will do some more reading, and start a new tread when I start the project:)