Subs (Revisiting Again) - Dual JBL 2245H

[dkalsi]

All,

A while back I was asking whether I should go with JBL Sub1500 or JBL 2245H as subs for my new listening room. At that time, I had both sets - however, I ended up selling my JBL Sub1500 to fellow forum member who needed it desperately (plus I got a little scared about the spider detaching problem).

I am now left with a pair of JBL 2245H. I wanted to know whether anyone here has tried dual 2245H in a single cabinet. The unfortunate thing is that my option to go with "End-table" subs (with each 2245H in its own cabinet), was shot down by my family. I understand it is always better to have two subs in separate enclosures than to have dual subs in a single enclosure to better deal with room nodes. However, with two huge JBL 4345s (with massive Woody Horns on top) and with all the audio components need to run them, the only place where I am allowed to add a sub is the front right corner - that is my only option. My room in 16' deep and 24' wide, 8' ceiling at the corners and 12' ceiling in the middle - the room is also open to the rest of the house.

I just wanted to know whether dual 2245H project is worth pursing given my placement options.

Please let me know what you think.

-Dhar

[mikebake]

Sounds to me like the sub1500's were the ones to keep for that size room, given their much smaller required cabinet size..............
I've heard dual 2245 cabs before; seemed fine to me, but it was one big ass box.

[subwoof]

I have a pair of empty 4845 (tuned for 2245) cabinets in storage that while not small, can be corner placed and hidden with cloth.

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Concert_Series.pdf

( this pdf is the "A" version that use the 2241 )

Added benefit is they are waterproof so the spouse can park plants on top.

PM for details..

:cheers:

[dkalsi]

Sounds to me like the sub1500's were the ones to keep for that size room, given their much smaller required cabinet size..............
I've heard dual 2245 cabs before; seemed fine to me, but it was one big ass box.

Mike,

You are absolutely right - but I was made and offer I could not refuse :D

[loach71]

Two 8 cu. ft. enclosures would you give you increased versatility...
I built four of these boxes for my girlfriend's home theater -- she loves them!
WOOF!:bouncy: WOOF!:bouncy:

[dkalsi]

Two 8 cu. ft. enclosures would you give you increased versatility...
I built four of these boxes for my girlfriend's home theater -- she loves them!
WOOF!:bouncy: WOOF!:bouncy:

Thats the thing - I can only have one enclosure in the room - there isn't room for the second enclosure. Ideally, I would have loved to build two 8 cubic feet enclosures.

Maybe I can just build one 8 cu.ft. sub and sell the second 2245h.

[pos]

are you sure you really need an additional pair of 2245 considering you already have a pair in your 4345?
Another solution would be to build two 8cu ft boxes and put them on top of your 4345 (and woodhorn), and feed them with the same signal as the lower 2245, à la Westlake SM1 !

50124

[dkalsi]

are you sure you really need an additional pair of 2245 considering you already have a pair in your 4345? 50124

Maybe not (at least that is what I am hoping for). The speakers will be moved into their new room within the next two days - I will know better then.

[Val]

For fun I plugged in the 2245H into WinISD in the iso-barik configuration (two speakers per box). Below is the graph for a 5 cu ft box tuned to 30hz with one 4" dia port 4.3" long. This is purely theoretical as I do not have any experience with iso-barik boxes but they have always intrigued me. At one point I was considering trying an iso-barik configuration with LE15As.

[toddalin]

Thats the thing - I can only have one enclosure in the room - there isn't room for the second enclosure. Ideally, I would have loved to build two 8 cubic feet enclosures.

Maybe I can just build one 8 cu.ft. sub and sell the second 2245h.


Make them "stackable." Then maybe you can split them at some point in the future.

If you can't get it to at least -3 dB at 20 Hz, it won't cut it for what it is and what is really necessary for HT.

[subwoof]

I have one of these available - you can stand it on end for a 30 in2 footprint.

sub

[Lee in Montreal]

I do not have any experience with iso-barik boxes but they have always intrigued me.

Isobaric only allows to reduce enclosure volume by two. But you get the same output as one woofer, using twice as much power for the same output.

I'd still build two subs. What about some tall Sonotube subs? Put them in corners and tell people they are air ducts for your heating system... At 18" diameter per 7 feet tall they would be 12.4cft each and they can use a very long bass reflex port. Imagine the possibilities. And it would be dirt cheap to build. That's like a one night stand: no commitment. If you don't like, then just say goodbye... :D

50152

[gferrell]

Isobaric only allows to reduce enclosure volume by two. But you get the same output as one woofer, using twice as much power for the same output.

I'd still build two subs. What about some tall Sonotube subs? Put them in corners and tell people they are air ducts for your heating system... At 18" diameter per 7 feet tall they would be 12.4cft each and they can use a very long bass reflex port. Imagine the possibilities. And it would be dirt cheap to build. That's like a one night stand: no commitment. If you don't like, then just say goodbye... :D

50152


Hey I like that idea! Where can I find plans on the Sonotube?

[Lee in Montreal]

Hey I like that idea! Where can I find plans on the Sonotube?

Google is your friend (sonotube + subwoofer). There has been so many of these subs made.

[gferrell]

Thanks I need a project and have been thinking about a home made sub or 2. I take it 2245's make good candidates.

[Lee in Montreal]

Thanks I need a project and have been thinking about a home made sub or 2. I take it 2245's make good candidates.

Here's a very nice how-to.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/ported-subwoofer-build-projects/38138-klipsch-driver-stuffed-sonotube.html

If you don't have space to work, any wood shop can cut tops and bottoms from 1" presswood with a router. Perhaps bring them a section of Sonotube so that they get the proper tight fit.

Then assemble and finish at home. :D

Some people have even glued wood veneer on the cardboard to make the tube look like a million $ project... or superb flower pot stands. Your wife just can't say no to that.

50236

2235 and 2245 indeed make good candidates for subs as they reach 20Hz. Not so for those 2225h and 2226h which are considered as "kickers".

[1audiohack]

I would not mount a 2235 or a 2245 vertically, if you do, the next step is to figure out the required DC offset voltage required to hold the cone in place long term and the cost of leaving the amp on indefinitely. :p

[Eaulive]

I would not mount a 2235 or a 2245 vertically, if you do, the next step is to figure out the required DC offset voltage required to hold the cone in place long term and the cost of leaving the amp on indefinitely. :p

I'm sure you meant horizontally, ;) and I agree. As a matter of fact I would not mount any speaker horizontally, and I'm storing all my drivers vertically.

[pos]

and recalculate the T/S parameters to take into account the shift in temperature of the voice coil that would result :D

[Eaulive]

and recalculate the T/S parameters to take into account the shift in temperature of the voice coil that would result :D

Là tu chies, pote :D

[Lee in Montreal]

Interesting. So what about all the horizontally installed drivers that are downfiring? They must probably consist of more than 50% of the current production. :D

[4313B]

I believe we went through the math and determined that both the 2235H and 2245H lacked the necessary suspension to allow for downward firing use. Laying them on their backs for a year pretty much bears that out. :rotfl:

[1audiohack]

I'm sure you meant horizontally, ;) and I agree. As a matter of fact I would not mount any speaker horizontally, and I'm storing all my drivers vertically.

I typically mount my speakers on a vertical plane making their axis of motion and dispersion horizontal.

I guess it's all in how you look at it, I spend about 75% of my time vertically oriented and the vast majority of my motion is, well, thinking about it, circular!

[lgvenable]

I guess it's all in how you look at it, I spend about 75% of my time vertically oriented and the vast majority of my motion is, well, thinking about it, circular!
Kinda like weebles wooble but they don't fall down ehh?;)

[pos]

Là tu chies, pote :D
je répondais au message d'au dessus ;)

[Eaulive]

je répondais au message d'au dessus ;)

Je sais :)
J'ai ensuite passé cette phrase sur babel fish et je me suis roulé par terre en voyant le résultat, ceux qui traduisent ce forum ne comprendront rien. :D

Ok, sorry about this, back in english now. :o:

[John]

I have one of these available - you can stand it on end for a 30 in2 footprint.

sub

What 18" is in those babies? :bouncy:

Also are those some butchered:(, I mean modified 4350,s:crying:

[gferrell]

I believe we went through the math and determined that both the 2235H and 2245H lacked the necessary suspension to allow for downward firing use. Laying them on their backs for a year pretty much bears that out. :rotfl:


So I take it the 2245H should not be pointed at the floor or ceiling. So if I get one and build a cab like the Pro site recommends I should have a great sub. Will 300 watts be enough to push it? And what would one expect to pay for a good 2245H used?

[Lee in Montreal]

If you want to keep your woofer vertical, you can make something like that. In this case at close to 14' tall, it becomes a transmission line, or a huge organ pipe. Still very easy to fabricate and experiment.

50303

In regard of the cost of a 2245, start by finding one as you don't find them easily Personally, I am currently looking for e155 and 2240 baskets to recone as 2245 ($40-$50). And will most likely fit them with $80.00 aftermarket recone kits.

http://reconekits.com/jbl2245h8ohmreconekit.aspx

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=50302&d=1299515568

[4313B]

So I take it the 2245H should not be pointed at the floor or ceiling.Not for any length of time no.
So if I get one and build a cab like the Pro site recommends I should have a great sub. Will 300 watts be enough to push it? And what would one expect to pay for a good 2245H used?Back when I cared about such things I used the cost of a new recone kit plus the cost of a decent core as the basis for what a legacy driver was worth. If the driver was rare, then maybe a bit more money for the core than usual.

Even in 2011 the now ancient 2245H design in a proper large vented box coupled with decent power can offer exceptionally good performance. Some of that performance has to do with its shear size. It doesn't require a bag of tricks to get it done.

The only thing I dislike about the legacy JBL transducers is the foam rot. What used to be tolerable to me has become intolerable. I have zero desire to refoam drivers every ten to fifteen years. To those still willing to expend the effort on this kind of maintenance it is a non-issue.

And will most likely fit them with $80.00 aftermarket recone kits.Bummer. It's a shame that people are going to have to resort to more and more aftermarket kits for their legacy JBL's.

[gferrell]

If you want to keep your woofer vertical, you can make something like that. In this case at close to 14' tall, it becomes a transmission line, or a huge organ pipe. Still very easy to fabricate and experiment.

50303

In regard of the cost of a 2245, start by finding one as you don't find them easily Personally, I am currently looking for e155 and 2240 baskets to recone as 2245 ($40-$50). And will most likely fit them with $80.00 aftermarket recone kits.

http://reconekits.com/jbl2245h8ohmreconekit.aspx

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=50302&d=1299515568


Seriously, I don't think the wife would allow the pipes in the living room! I think they are cool though! I did find some 2245's with good cones for $165. The guy has 20 of them.

[gferrell]

On this page http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=219&doctype=3

What I don't understand is under:

Equivalent
duct tube
and ID

(6) 4.0

Does this mean I need 6- 4" tubes or equivalent for a single 2245?

[Lee in Montreal]

Bummer. It's a shame that people are going to have to resort to more and more aftermarket kits for their legacy JBL's.

I am with you, but as long as people realize they are being scammed at $240 a pop, they will continue purchasing aftermarket... :eek:

Any reason why JBL charges $240 while a competitor makes the same for $80? Is the JBL really 300% "better"?

[JeffW]

So why not just use a cheap 18" driver from Parts Express or something. Reminds me of those guys who agonize over buying genuine JBL diaphragms for their JBL tweeters, then complain when the tweeters sound like crap with the aftermarker phragms. Why even start with a JBL carcass, why stir any JBL into the mix? There are plenty of speaker manufacturers out there. Parts Express list over (40) 18" drivers on their site, only 3 of which are JBL.

[JeffW]

On this page http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=219&doctype=3

What I don't understand is under:

Equivalent
duct tube
and ID

(6) 4.0

Does this mean I need 6- 4" tubes or equivalent for a single 2245?

That's the correct total area for what's on their chart.

4" ID circle = 12.5664"^2

6 X 12.5664 = 75.4"^2

[Lee in Montreal]

So why not just use a cheap 18" driver from Parts Express or something.

Just because JBL's recones are obviously overpriced?
It is true there are better and cheaper woofers out there.

Because I have some JBL parts doesn't mean I shall necessarely drink their Kool-Aid. Or are we in a cult here? :eek:

[JeffW]

Or are we in a cult here? :eek:

The name of the website you are on is called "Lansing Heritage", there might well be a clue off in there...

[grumpy]

Heh, well if you can get a core for $50 and a kit that works for $80, and do the work yourself,
then I guess it would be pretty damn hard to buy a better 18" driver new for $130.

It's just a lot of ifs. Knock yourself out. The core can be reused, regardless :)

[pos]

JBL does not give a fuck about these vintage cone kits and discard them one after the other, and they were made by external companies anyway (and many different companies have made the 2245 kit for example), so I think we should start looking for good replacement kits ourselves, and maybe gather some knowledge here about the good ones (T/S, etc.) ...

[4313B]

I am with you, but as long as people realize they are being scammed at $240 a pop, they will continue purchasing aftermarket... :eek:

Any reason why JBL charges $240 while a competitor makes the same for $80? Is the JBL really 300% "better"?I suspect it's because they have to pay their fearless leader some $40 million dollars a year. Just a wild guess on my part. :rotfl:

I could see the kits being expensive when they were Made in the U.S.A. I can't justify their expense now. I sure as hell wouldn't buy any now. I haven't bought any since June, 2010 when I was told for the final time to "get them while the getting is good".

I think we should start looking for good replacement kits ourselves, and maybe gather some knowledge here about the good ones (T/S, etc.) ...You're probably right. It would seem that time is finally upon us.

[gferrell]

That's the correct total area for what's on their chart.

4" ID circle = 12.5664"^2

6 X 12.5664 = 75.4"^2


What is better, multiple tubes, one big one or something in between?

[Lee in Montreal]

Hey mister Ferrell. You can still put a 2245 vertical in a sonotube and end up with a layout like that. One cap at each end. Vertical board. Slit the sonotube at the bottom. JBL did it in square shape a few decades ago... If your ceiling is 8ft tall, you can have a 14ft path ( 2 x7ft) good for 29Hz at half wave length.

We are talking little money and not much time. :eek:

50340

[Ruediger]

On this page http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=219&doctype=3

What I don't understand is under:

Equivalent
duct tube
and ID

(6) 4.0

Does this mean I need 6- 4" tubes or equivalent for a single 2245?

As I understand it "ID" means "inner diameter".

[Ruediger]

Hey mister Ferrell. You can still put a 2245 vertical in a sonotube and end up with a layout like that. One cap at each end. Vertical board. Slit the sonotube at the bottom. JBL did it in square shape a few decades ago... If your ceiling is 8ft tall, you can have a 14ft path ( 2 x7ft) good for 29Hz at half wave length.

We are talking little money and not much time. :eek:

50340

I just added the Bose Wave Cannon patent paper to the technical references thread.

Ruediger

[Lee in Montreal]

The Air Coupler was designed for the 2245h specifically.

50346

[gferrell]

I got my 2245 today, I took a chance not really knowing what kind of shape it was in and it payed off. This 2245 looks to be in great shape. Came packed in an 18" JBL box. Just a few minor markings where it was mounted before. The company had 20 of them. The cone is in excellent shape. Hooked it up to test, ( I hope full range won't hurt it) and it sounds real clean. Now I have to decide which cabinet to put it in for a sub.

I like your idea Lee because it is narrow. I was also looking at this plan from another thread.50347

Any more suggestions are welcome. Just remember it is for music mainly and movies, and will be played with L7's & L5's.

Thanks

[badman]

You're probably right. It would seem that time is finally upon us.

Yep. If you're purely interested in performance, most of the JBL magic was in the cores anyway, for the modern non-lansaplas woofers. Sure it's fiberglass reinforced, yadda yadda, but that's available elsewhere too. You'll need to be careful about quality, but now that JBL has abandoned quality and is not interested in supporting the people who made them what they are, I'll not pay Harman one red cent.

[jdelange]

In regard of the cost of a 2245, start by finding one as you don't find them easily Personally, I am currently looking for e155 and 2240 baskets to recone as 2245 ($40-$50). And will most likely fit them with $80.00 aftermarket recone kits.

http://reconekits.com/jbl2245h8ohmreconekit.aspx


Lee, am I not supposed to see Aquaplas coating at the back of a 2245H cone? This looks just paper to me?

Jan

[Lee in Montreal]

Above picture depicts a driver with white Aquaplas.

[jdelange]

Above picture depicts a driver with white Aquaplas.

Yes correct. It comes in white and black I think. But I was referring to the aftermarket recone set linked in your post which doesn't seem to have either.

[Lee in Montreal]

Yes correct. It comes in white and black I think. But I was referring to the aftermarket recone set linked in your post which doesn't seem to have either.

There are many ways to dampen the cone, Aquaplas is one of them. It was replaced by other methods by many brands and off-brands. Mix of fibers, glassfibers, etc.