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MyLittleViking
12-19-2010, 07:22 PM
I have an opportunity to purchase a pair of JBL 240Ti speakers from the original owner. The cabinets are in exceptional shape with no nicks or scratches anywhere. All the driver's are original. The only repair ever done was the replacement of the woofer surrounds at a licensed JBL dealer at a cost of $287. I know the market is down now, but he is asking $1000. I am hoping to get them for $800, what do you guys think about acquiring these speakers at this price?

Scott

HCSGuy
12-19-2010, 10:03 PM
If you have heard them and fallen in love with them, go for it. If you're thinking of an investment in future collectability, take a pass. I paid $600 for a perfect pair about 8yrs ago, didn't like the sound (they don't compare to 250Ti's, despite the driver similarity), but I still have them as they're hard to sell - to big to ship, not worth enough to make the effort to crate them, and my pair is too clean to part out.

Unfortunately, 240Ti's just aren't that desirable, so they don't sell at any premium over the drivers' raw values. I haven't seen a no-reserve Ebay auction on them, but several sellers keep putting clean sets up at $899 or a thousand and they don't sell. A year or two ago TiDome was offering his clean pair to LH members for $600 and I don't think he sold them. They have a great woofer (LE14H-1) that's worth $175-200 each if pristine. The 044Ti tweeters are also rare, you may be able to get $150 for a perfect pair. The 104H midranges are probably worth $80/pr. Crossovers and cabinets have little or no value, so you get $630 in parts value. Normally, perfect pairs would be worth much more to collectors, but this model seems to be collector proof and is desired mainly for its parts. Good luck, and let us know if you get them!

Titanium Dome
12-19-2010, 11:04 PM
Yes, not a nibble at $600, not even at $550.

4313B
12-20-2010, 06:13 AM
Unfortunately, 240Ti's just aren't that desirable, so they don't sell at any premium over the drivers' raw values.Have any of you considered Zilching the 104H and 044Ti in those things with a waveguide and 2452H-SL?

While I liked the 240Ti well enough I can also see why it was the model guys settled for at the time because they just couldn't swing the extra cash for the 250Ti. It's a better system than the L100T or L100t3, which people seem to like for some reason.

macaroonie
12-20-2010, 06:59 AM
Should work.

49085

HCSGuy
12-20-2010, 07:29 AM
I haven't listened to mine in probably 3yrs, but my memory was that the bass definition did not compare to my 250TiLe's - I blamed the resonant enclosure, though it could also be tuning or size. I didn't pursue it any further. I would scavenge the woofer for a project in a new enclosure before I modified the stock one. Opinions anyone?

4313B
12-20-2010, 07:40 AM
Should work.:applaud:

I haven't listened to mine in probably 3yrs, but my memory was that the bass definition did not compare to my 250TiLe's - I blamed the resonant enclosure, though it could also be tuning or size. I didn't pursue it any further. I would scavenge the woofer for a project in a new enclosure before I modified the stock one. Opinions anyone?A narrower box with some actual bracing inside and that waveguide on top for a modern L200T or "quick and dirty" 1400 Array. :p Sell the 104H's and 044Ti's to guys who need spares for their 18Ti's, 120Ti's and 240Ti's.

Seriously, if you guys don't like these things then make them into something you do like...

MyLittleViking
12-20-2010, 05:09 PM
I wouldn't have the heart to part them as they are all original and in MINT condition. The cabinets are simply gorgeous. The only concern is that one of the woofers was re-foamed incorrectly with an aftermarket kit even though it cost $257 at a high end shop. Apparently they could not order the factory surrounds. Can this be corrected? If not, how much does this affect the value?

I am enamored with vintage JBL andd Altec sound, however these sound more like the contemporary JBL designs and have a more subdued and warm sound to them, not like the monitor sound of the 70's. I imagine its because of the networks and "could" sound like vintage JBL with some crossover mods or active crossovers.

JeffW
12-20-2010, 05:24 PM
I wouldn't have the heart to part them as they are all original and in MINT condition. The cabinets are simply gorgeous. The only concern is that one of the woofers was re-foamed incorrectly with an aftermarket kit even though it cost $257 at a high end shop. Apparently they could not order the factory surrounds. Can this be corrected? If not, how much does this affect the value?

JBL never issued "factory surrounds", only re-cone kits from what I gather. So anybody doing a re-surround job is using an aftermarket foam kit. But there are good foam kits out there, like those from Rick Cobb.

If they were mine (and I wanted to either keep OR sell them), I'd have both woofers re-foamed with kits from Rick Cobb. Being a high-end shop doesn't strictly translate into a shop that knows shit from shinola. There are some really top notch guys out there that do superior work, that's what you want. Edgewound is a good example, I have some of his work and it's exemplary.

DavidF
12-20-2010, 06:23 PM
...The only concern is that one of the woofers was re-foamed incorrectly with an aftermarket kit even though it cost $257 at a high end shop. Apparently they could not order the factory surrounds. Can this be corrected? If not, how much does this affect the value? ...

I am enamored with vintage JBL andd Altec sound, however these sound more like the contemporary JBL designs and have a more subdued and warm sound to them, not like the monitor sound of the 70's. I imagine its because of the networks and "could" sound like vintage JBL with some crossover mods or active crossovers.

a) $257 could be a fair price for a full recone by an authorized tech. $257 for one refoam? That's what the Pentagon would pay.

b) your preference for the vintage JBL/Altec sound will likely make this a poor investment for you.

c) the 240ti model was a later evolution of JBL sound. You could make a retro sound model out of it but you would have to swap the mid and perhaps the tweeter, completely revise the crossover, and change the tuning of the enclosure.

Thinking you should pass on these.

brett_s
12-20-2010, 06:29 PM
Before I picked up a set of XPL200 earlier this year, I was looking for quite some time for a really nice set of 240ti's. Let me tell you, there is a price difference depending where you are. In the midwest, a nice clean set will run you around $700 to maybe $750, and they are hard to find. On the coasts, they seem much more availabe, and probably $150 or more cheaper. I don't know why that is, but it was what I found, and I was looking for a long time.

I could have had them shipped from the coasts for the same total cost as pickup in the midwest, but I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Clean one are also harder to find. Basket cases yes, pristine samples are far and few between.

I'm not sure why there was a price difference, but the coasts were cheaper, especially west.


Just my two cents.
Brett

MyLittleViking
12-20-2010, 07:42 PM
It was done well and performs perfectly. The surround just wasn't attached on the underside of the cone as it was originally. The other surround is original as still in perfect condition. I just don't know how much this would affect the value, I can't imagine it would affect the performance any? And no it was not a re-cone, just new surrounds were installed.

I agree about the sound not suiting my tastes, but I am really impressed with the driver compliment and cabinets, they are gorgeous!

I already know I will have to do some cabinet tuning and crossover finessing to get them to perform like I would like. I am thinking active crossovers will be the way to go.

MyLittleViking
12-20-2010, 07:50 PM
I will be meeting him on Thursday to hopefully make a deal, I'll let you guys know how things go.

macaroonie
12-20-2010, 08:22 PM
:applaud:
A narrower box with some actual bracing inside and that waveguide on top for a modern L200T or "quick and dirty" 1400 Array. :p Sell the 104H's and 044Ti's to guys who need spares for their 18Ti's, 120Ti's and 240Ti's.

Seriously, if you guys don't like these things then make them into something you do like...


The box aint so bad as I remember and you could winkle effective bracing in there through the bass driver hole. Use gorilla glue to stick em in. Crude but effective The cab has a nice roundover on the front edges so diffraction will be reduced. Not a bad start. . It looks as if the PT-H 1010 will cover the mid and tweet cutouts so you get a nice cosmetic job and as far as I recall Zilch has the x/o done and dusted. Given that the bass driver is one of the best they made ( of its time ) you have the beginnings of something potentially very very good indeed.
It might seem like a long path but then rome was not built in a day !

HCSGuy
12-20-2010, 11:19 PM
If the woofer was refoamed on the the front side, it does not really affect performance - it's there to keep the front of the cone centered on the frame while the spider places the voicecoil in the gap. The foam is pliant enough that I really don't think it would make a difference. However, once you've glued it to the front it cannot be removed placed on the back. If you want to correct it, you're out a recone ($275 or so) or you can buy a used (maybe NOS:)) woofer to replace it for $175-200 if you're patient. I've got three Le14H-1's that are refoamed incorrectly, but I can't bring myself to recone them - I found beautiful used ones for cheaper.

I appreciate that you've decided you have to have these speakers, but between the premium price, the bad foam, and the fact you don't love the sound, I think this may be a deal you'll wish you had passed on after the newness wears off. Myself, I'd keep saving for a pair of 250Ti's...

4313B
12-21-2010, 07:23 AM
If the woofer was refoamed on the the front side, it does not really affect performance - it's there to keep the front of the cone centered on the frame while the spider places the voicecoil in the gap.Surrounds get no respect...


Hey, what do you guys think about Jerry's new 1501FE with the cloth surround? I might just have to pick up a few of them even if they are Made In <Anywhere but U.S.A.> :rotfl:

grumpy
12-21-2010, 09:56 AM
An idea who's time has come around (again).

Real value given the current surround materials science state?
or a nostalgic nod to the past for those that feel no foam is good foam?
(I'll confess there is a certain appeal for me)

I'd sure like to hear the system based on them (4365).

All I want for Christmas :D:

49089

svollmer
12-30-2010, 03:10 AM
For comparison, there's another pair of 240Ti's on CL in DC for $725. No affiliation.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ele/2135266965.html

opimax
12-30-2010, 04:45 AM
As someone who once wanted a set and in no way trying to be a downer, I note that they are not moving at that price

Mark

edgewound
12-30-2010, 08:10 AM
The 240ti is a gorgeous speaker system....especially if not abused.

The teak cabinetry is very unique in the JBL legacy line-up and has "class" written all over it. The richness of the wood develops over the years with proper care and feeding with teak oil.

The LE14H-1 must be repaired/refoamed properly as a recone kit seems to not be available nowadays. Placing the surround on anywhere but on the back of the cone is just a shortcut and ruins the cone for any future repairs done right. Since the cone and voice coil are so industrial grade on this driver, and rarely are they fried, replacing the spider and surround can result in a nearly recone equivalent. It just takes patience....like anything else....to do it right and with care.

240ti is beautiful and has it's place in the family of floor standers.

Titanium Dome
12-30-2010, 10:11 PM
They are very nice to look at, 'tis true. They really sound pretty good, just not 250Ti good.

I had an open house here last summer and played my "beater" pair in the garage for the guests, and they were pretty impressed. Of course, many of them are sat/sub owners, so any full-range speaker will be enlightening.

There's still another pair virtually NIB in my garage, too, that I should set up. They are gorgeous, really, and I doubt anyone will ever pay me what I think they're worth. I might as well use them... but, where? :dont-know:

svollmer
12-31-2010, 03:34 AM
The 240ti is a gorgeous speaker system....especially if not abused.

The teak cabinetry is very unique in the JBL legacy line-up and has "class" written all over it. The richness of the wood develops over the years with proper care and feeding with teak oil.

240ti is beautiful and has it's place in the family of floor standers.


Agreed! Below are a few pictures of mine before I sold them to a LH member. When oiling, DON'T :scold:get the oil on the driver frames, or they'll be all shiney and yucky!

:49162
49161
49160

spkrman57
01-04-2011, 08:35 AM
Hey, what do you guys think about Jerry's new 1501FE with the cloth surround? I might just have to pick up a few of them even if they are Made In <Anywhere but U.S.A.> :rotfl:

I wonder what they would cost us?

Ron

Regis
01-04-2011, 08:46 AM
They are very nice to look at, 'tis true. They really sound pretty good, just not 250Ti good.

I had an open house here last summer and played my "beater" pair in the garage for the guests, and they were pretty impressed. Of course, many of them are sat/sub owners, so any full-range speaker will be enlightening.

There's still another pair virtually NIB in my garage, too, that I should set up. They are gorgeous, really, and I doubt anyone will ever pay me what I think they're worth. I might as well use them... but, where? :dont-know:

I remember them well. They didn't sound bad and then you turned on the XPL-160's and the little XPL's blew them away! Better definition, punchier, more midrange output, it was no contest for me (IMHO). If I had to choose between the two, I'd know which one I'd be looking for. Ditto on the 250Ti comments as well.

jblnut
01-04-2011, 11:03 AM
I'm not quite sure why the 240Ti doesn't get the love and respect of the 250Ti. I bought a pair for $275 about 5 years back that needed refoaming. I sold them to a friend (at cost) to get him into the JBL family. He's a single guy with lots of disposable income, he's a musician, and he eats, sleeps and breathes music. The fact that he still has them (and LOVES them) speaks volumes. I visit his place frequently (and vice versa) and frankly, they sound a lot more like the 250Ti than this thread would lead you to believe. They only lack a little quickness/impact in the snare drum area as they don't have the 108h 8" lower mid driver.

They're a f'ing steal at anything under $750 imho and you'd frankly be very hard pressed to equal them new for less than $2k, maybe more. And yes the XPL160 might have been more of a "wow" speaker for demos and parties (I know, I had the 140) but for something to live with long term, it's very hard to beat the larger Ti's.

jblnut

Don C
01-04-2011, 11:35 AM
Remember that the 044ti tweeter is going to have less output over time as the foam rubber behind the dome rots away. There are no more new diaphragm kits available for these tweeters, so it's going to be rare to hear these speakers sounding as good as they should. I love the sound of these speakers when they're working well, but I'd invest elsewhere.

jblnut
01-04-2011, 11:48 AM
I'm curious how to assess/quanitfy this reduction in output over time. Mine certainly do not seem to have lost anything in the upper registers. Is is possible for this "foam rot" to cause no harm, or perhaps an insignifigant amount ? If this foam was used for dampening, is it also possible that it might actually damp less and therefore cause some spikes/peaks in response instead?

I'm certainly not ready to run from the Ti's without a fight at least:). How bad is this really and how likely is it to affect every single 044Ti over time? And how much time at that ?

There's pages and pages of tweeters in the PE catalog, as well as some other JBL units that would fit with some work. I reckon if/when the time comes I'll bite the bullet and swap something else in there rather than scrap 2 250Ti's.

jblnut

SEAWOLF97
01-04-2011, 12:56 PM
Remember that the 044ti tweeter is going to have less output over time as the foam rubber behind the dome rots away. .

why shud we remember that ? just a supposition, not a known fact :confused:


I'm curious how to assess/quanitfy this reduction in output over time. Mine certainly do not seem to have lost anything in the upper registers. Is is possible for this "foam rot" to cause no harm, or perhaps an insignifigant amount ? If this foam was used for dampening, is it also possible that it might actually damp less and therefore cause some spikes/peaks in response instead?

jblnut

we kinda hashed that out ...

HERE ==>> http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?29325-044Ti-questions-Help-needed

and IF you are really worried, the foam isnt that hard to replace

jblnut
01-04-2011, 01:07 PM
I'm not worried and mine ain't broke...(yet anyway)

It certainly wouldn't deter me from buying a nice set of 240TI's *if* I could hear them first and they sounded good. But I can see how others might see the end of the line with no more new parts available. It's something we're all going to have to get used to in the legacy JBL world. We've been spared a fate that many other speakers of a similar vintage have suffered long ago - no more factory parts.

I've got a new 044TI in the box (thanks Giskard) and a pair of 120's standing by as donors. My "end of the line" is quite a ways out on the horizon. I hope my kids and grandkids will be rocking the house with 250's long into the future!

:-)

jblnut

Don C
01-04-2011, 02:22 PM
I can only speak from my own experience, and I'm going by memory. The tweeters that I worked on had gooey rotted foam residue inside. The treble sounded rolled off compared to other speakers that I had for comparison. I measured the output at only one frequency, 5Khz if I recall correctly, then rebuilt them with new diaphragms and re-measured. They were 6db higher after the rebuild. And the speakers sounded much better. I don't see why any other of the same tweeters would have lasted much longer, the environment was not much a factor since the rotted foam is on the inside of the tweeter. I'd think that most of the tweeters have the same or similar problems as mine did by now. We all know that foam rubber doesn't last forever.

mike
01-04-2011, 05:56 PM
The Ti series were really purist speakers that can be a little boring sounding until you get used to them and or appreciate what they do. I think the 240Ti would be a little more user friendly than the 250Ti which can really require the right room and placement.

Mike

SEAWOLF97
01-04-2011, 06:25 PM
I think the 240Ti would be a little more user friendly than the 250Ti which can really require the right room and placement.

Mike

as a 250Ti owner , I have not found that to be the case...they are much easier to place than an L7.

svollmer
01-05-2011, 06:28 AM
I'd think that most of the tweeters have the same or similar problems as mine did by now. We all know that foam rubber doesn't last forever.


The whole Ti series is so nice (mechanically and physically) that it's just a shame JBL didn't use another material such as felt.

4313B
01-06-2011, 08:38 AM
The whole Ti series is so nice (mechanically and physically) that it's just a shame JBL didn't use another material such as felt.Agreed.

SEAWOLF97
01-06-2011, 08:46 AM
The whole Ti series is so nice (mechanically and physically)

The speaker that I'd like to audition is the little discussed 120Ti ...they seem to get no "ink time" .....really enjoyed the L-166 and hope the 120 might be a good extension of that model ?? :confused:

nice family

4313B
01-06-2011, 09:05 AM
The 120Ti was very nice for a twelve-inch three-way bookshelf loudspeaker. I have alot of time logged in front of the whole series. I thought they were all quite good. The tweeter issue is, well, an issue. The foam is a problem with ANY JBL loudspeaker that uses it. Even the foam in the recone kits goes to hell after a certain number of years. While it is certainly better than Lans-A-Loy from a longevity standpoint it still breaks down eventually. Lans-A-Loy was arguably the best surround material ever invented from a purely functional diaphragm termination perspective. Too bad it couldn't survive on this planet. :rotfl:

jblnut
01-06-2011, 10:03 AM
I bought a pair of 120's from a forum member a few years back. They are my "daily drivers" as they are on in my office all day while I work. They replaced - and sound very similar to - the 4410's I used to have up here. I originally lent them to a friend who was considering leaving the Klipsch fold. We spent a lot of time comparing them to his Forte's and while the 120's produced far superior bass, the mids and highs just did not have that transparency he had become accustomed to. Of course they aren't horn-loaded with 98db efficiency so it surely wasn't an apples/apples comparison. His wife loved them ("the Klipsches are always SHOUTING at me and are JUST TOO LOUD") but he decided to keep the Forte's. So much for WAF :D.

The 120's might be the best of the legacy JBL 12" 3-ways, but may not compare to a more modern design like the LSR32. If you like the sound of an L100T/t3, 4410, 4412, etc, you might want to check out a pair while they are still undervalued.

Or you might wish to pass knowing the 044Ti's in them may be living on borrowed time...depends on how you view this whole foam damper busniess.

jblnut

SEAWOLF97
01-06-2011, 10:32 AM
I bought a pair of 120's from a forum member a few years back. They are my "daily drivers" as they are on in my office all day while I work. They replaced - and sound very similar to - the 4410's I used to have up here. I originally lent them to a friend who was considering leaving the Klipsch fold. We spent a lot of time comparing them to his Forte's and while the 120's produced far superior bass, the mids and highs just did not have that transparency he had become accustomed to. Of course they aren't horn-loaded with 98db efficiency so it surely wasn't an apples/apples comparison. His wife loved them ("the Klipsches are always SHOUTING at me and are JUST TOO LOUD") but he decided to keep the Forte's. So much for WAF :D.

The 120's might be the best of the legacy JBL 12" 3-ways, but may not compare to a more modern design like the LSR32. If you like the sound of an L100T/t3, 4410, 4412, etc, you might want to check out a pair while they are still undervalued.

Or you might wish to pass knowing the 044Ti's in them may be living on borrowed time...depends on how you view this whole foam damper busniess.

jblnut

thanx for your perspective on the 120Ti ..tho I find it unusual to compare them to 4410's (which I enjoyed) and 4412's (not so much)

in actuality , I dont need more speakers. there is already a que of them waiting for something in use to develop a problem..so that they can get their moment in the spotlight.

Grumpy & I kinda hashed out that 044Ti foam thang here ....http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?29325-044Ti-questions-Help-needed ...and I took pictures.

and

(..sometimes making a coherent forum post is harder than swapping out that foam) :eek: