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View Full Version : Subs for HiFi Use - Pair of 2245H vs Pair of Sub1500



dkalsi
11-19-2010, 11:57 AM
By Tuesday next week, I should have a brand new pair of JBL Sub 1500 - (I have my fingers crossed for the spider detachment issues). I also have a pair of freshly reconed 2245H.

Currently my JBL 4345 Clones are in a relatively small room (13'x20'x8') - but I will be moving them into our living room this Winter (16' x 24' x 12' and open to the rest of the house on one side). For a room that large/open, I was thinking adding subs may be necessary. I really don't care for the "boom-boom-boom" - but I absoluelty love/need the "presense" of effortless/musical bass. Again, I don't like it too loud and I am by no means a bass freak, but I feel a sub can really enhance "full-range" sound effect.

I wanted to get the opinion of fellow forum members to see which of the two subs (Sub 1500 vs 2245H) would be a better option. I love the fact that I could get away with a smaller cabinet using the Sub1500 - but if the 2245H is more "HiFi" (for lack of a better word), then I will consider using the 2245H.

The are going to used strictly for music and will be used in pairs.

Current System:

Pre-Amp: Herron VSP-1
Amp (High+Mid): Plinius SA-100 MKIII
Amp (Bass): McIntosch 7270
Crossover: Marchand XM-9
Speakers: JBL 4345 Clones (with 4355 equivalent crossovers w/ JBL2441+2397 on top)

rusty jefferson
11-19-2010, 05:40 PM
I recently switched from a pair of B-380 subs (2235h) to a pair of 2245h subs in 8 cubic foot cabinets. It would be difficult to describe how much better the 18" subs sound, at all volume levels.

Haven't used the sub 1500, so I can't offer anything there.

dkalsi
11-19-2010, 07:42 PM
I recently switched from a pair of B-380 subs (2235h) to a pair of 2245h subs in 8 cubic foot cabinets. It would be difficult to describe how much better the 18" subs sound, at all volume levels.

Haven't used the sub 1500, so I can't offer anything there.

Thanks Rusty. I must come check out your subs one day. Just have big exam on Dec 4th and I should be free thereafter - hopefully at a time that is most conveninent for you, maybe I can stop by.

BTW - did some posts above get deleted? I thought Giskard and POS commented.

dkalsi
11-19-2010, 07:49 PM
It depends... in my opinion if you want to integrate into a four-way like the 4345, then I agree... the 2245 is really hard to beat. However for true sub duty, the Sub1500s in small boxes with a little DSP help will give the 2245 a run for the money and do it in 1/4 the space. I've posted this before, but you may have missed it while you were tending to other interests... you might consider putting a Velodyne SMS-1 in front of your Sub1500s.

Widget .

Found the above from one of the many JBL Sub 1500 threads. Very relevant to my situation. As mentioned in my first post - the subs will be used for true sub duty, but not not HT sub duty (which typically has tons of LFE).

JeffW
11-19-2010, 08:35 PM
BTW - did some posts above get deleted? I thought Giskard and POS commented.

If all the posts that were made on this site actually stayed on this site, there wouldn't be enough server space to handle it.

Two words: Screen shot. If somebody posts something of interest, snap a screen shot. Chances are very good it'll be gone next time you look for it.

Take this post, for example.

dkalsi
11-20-2010, 12:17 AM
If all the posts that were made on this site actually stayed on this site, there wouldn't be enough server space to handle it.

Two words: Screen shot. If somebody posts something of interest, snap a screen shot. Chances are very good it'll be gone next time you look for it.

Take this post, for example.

Haha....Thanks Jeff. I will keep that in mind :)

Chas
11-23-2010, 06:30 AM
I have been running my 4345's with a pair of SUB1500's (triamped) in Parts Express 3 cuft boxes for some years. I am crossing them at 40 HZ 24 dB/octave.

In conjunction with other changes, such as all new capacitors and a TAD Be HF driver in the 4345's, I think the set-up is nothing short of stunning at any reasonable level of volume.

I think you will enjoy either, although the 1500's are more compact.

mikebake
11-23-2010, 06:46 AM
In your setting I think I would prefer the sub1500's. When the room gets larger than average, I think I prefer the 2245's. I have owned/used them both. The sub1500's are quite good, and compact.

dkalsi
11-23-2010, 09:20 AM
In your setting I think I would prefer the sub1500's. When the room gets larger than average, I think I prefer the 2245's. I have owned/used them both. The sub1500's are quite good, and compact.


Mike,

Sorry, but are you suggesting that new room is not in fact that big and that the Sub1500 will suffice? I think the room is rather large (especially since it opens up to the rest of the house) --> in which case you suggest the JBL 2245H.

Thanks,
Dhar

spkrman57
11-23-2010, 09:20 AM
The 18" will work better in the larger room.

The Sub1500's will load a small room quick and not need as much drive wattage to get decent LF response compared to a larger room's requirements.

Ron





In your setting I think I would prefer the sub1500's. When the room gets larger than average, I think I prefer the 2245's. I have owned/used them both. The sub1500's are quite good, and compact.

dkalsi
11-23-2010, 09:34 AM
I have been running my 4345's with a pair of SUB1500's (triamped) in Parts Express 3 cuft boxes for some years. I am crossing them at 40 HZ 24 dB/octave.

In conjunction with other changes, such as all new capacitors and a TAD Be HF driver in the 4345's, I think the set-up is nothing short of stunning at any level of volume.

I think you will enjoy either, although the 1500's are more compact.

Chas,

Thanks for your input. My setup is very similar to yours (except the 2441+2397 in lieu 2307+TAD2001....I am thinking about installing the Truextent Be diaphragms in the 2441 though).

What kind of crossover are you using? My pre-amp has dual outputs, so I plan to run one output to the Marchand (to split b/w my Plinius and McIntosh @ 290hz) and run the second output on my preamp to Ashly XR-2001, with low-pass set to about 70hz and feeding into a Behringer EP2500 or QSC-3402 amp (both are pro-amps). Hence, there will be overlap in the frequencies the 4345 will be playing and the Sub1500/2245. I believe my 4345 are tuned to 28hz.

Not sure whether I should go with a lower tuning (20hz?) for the subs - which would require a bigger enclosure.

I just want it to sound as good as it possible can. Thus, if it has to be large low tuned 2245H enclosures, so be it. But if I can get away with small sealed 3 cubic feet subs and have optimal performance - then nothing like it.

Thanks,
D

grumpy
11-23-2010, 11:00 AM
keep in mind how the sub1500 driver was used at Revel...
very small (relatively) sealed enclosure: custom EQ and tailoring: BIG-ass amp.

My $.02 is just to repeat that if you truly want a -sub- woofer, the sub1500 unit
is hard to beat... already having a pair of JBL 18"ers in your 4345's should
take care of the "normal" woofing ;)

(that said, I did -not- try using both 2245 and sub1500 drivers at the same time
in a multi-way arrangement... just dual 2245/4645 cabs vs dual sub1500 ported
cabs tuned to low 20's ... in a large/open home listening environment... the
sub1500's can mess with your bowels).

Chas
11-23-2010, 01:50 PM
I am using a two way Marchand XM44-2 balanced I/O with premium op-amps at 290 Hz. The LF outputs feed an Ashley 31 band EQ to allow me to tailor my response below 290, i.e. deal with room boom and lightly boost the SUB1500's at 20 Hz. The EQ then feeds an Ashley XR1001 (Chinese version) that splits the signals between the 2245 and the SUB.

BTW, I think the TAD's are 2002's.
Obviously, you'll need to tinker for yourself and decide if the 4345's should be limited or not to your sub crossover freq.

Besides being hilarious, Grumpy makes sense to me.

dkalsi
11-23-2010, 06:42 PM
The Sub1500s arrived today. They look amazing - heavy beast for a 15" woofer (weighs more than some 18" I own).

Despite the spider detachment problem they are known to have, I am going to keep my fingers crossed and give them a try.

mikebake
11-23-2010, 07:02 PM
Mike,

Sorry, but are you suggesting that new room is not in fact that big and that the Sub1500 will suffice? I think the room is rather large (especially since it opens up to the rest of the house) --> in which case you suggest the JBL 2245H.

Thanks,
Dhar
No, I still meant the sub1500. For a much larger room, maybe say starting at 7000 cu ft and up with decent acoustics, the 2245H.
Look, I've useda a pair of 2245H's in an 1800 seat theatre for hi-fi and they were substantial. I just thought the large cab/large driver really needed a BIG space to show off properly. (not as big as the theatre, mind you). The sub1500 should be all you'll need in most living spaces, IMO.
Both drivers are beautious to behold, heavy, solid, impressive, and imminently capable in looks and use. They do the real deal.

mikebake
11-23-2010, 07:09 PM
And for no particular reason I'll add one of my few original hi-fi quotes I've spouted around the ethernet a few times; I'd rather hear a big system loafing than a small system working.

mikebake
11-23-2010, 07:11 PM
The 18" will work better in the larger room.

The Sub1500's will load a small room quick and not need as much drive wattage to get decent LF response compared to a larger room's requirements.

Ron
Hi Ron. :wave:

svollmer
11-24-2010, 05:34 AM
And for no particular reason I'll add one of my few original hi-fi quotes I've spouted around the ethernet a few times; I'd rather hear a big system loafing than a small system working.

For what it's worth, I agree 100% and I bet most people here would too! :applaud:

timc
11-24-2010, 06:21 AM
For what it's worth, I agree 100% and I bet most people here would too! :applaud:


Agreement from me as well. :D

4313B
11-24-2010, 08:11 AM
If one is going to run subs with a 4345 then go with a 2234H based 4344 type system. The 2234H is good to 40 Hz in something like a 4.0 cubic foot box. Another option would be the LE14H-4 in something like a 3.0 cubic foot box. I know a few of you have managed to squeeze a pair of LE14H-4's out of JBL before that door slammed shut. :)

grumpy
11-24-2010, 08:43 AM
If one is going to run subs with a 4345[-like system] then go with a 2234H based 4344 type system [instead of the 4345]. The 2234H is good to 40 Hz in something like a 4.0 cubic foot box. Another option would be the LE14H-4 in something like a 3.0 cubic foot box. ... then add a sub.

My edits in red... I think it follows the intent, but whack me if I'm wrong.