Jbl ls series (toronto/canada) [Archive]

ronaltronics

11-19-2010, 09:01 AM

Comment on JBL LS-80 loudspeakers.........
I did a private demo with Bryston and the LS-80 speakers last night. The customers words were this was the best speaker he heard comparing to many other supposed audiophile brands the last few weeks.(Clear,Transparent,uncolored) to be exact.It ended up with a purchase of the ebony rosewood finish.As a retailer I am happy to offer the LS Series because not everyone can afford K2 or Everest.

Way to go JBL:bouncy:

www.altronicsstereo2000.com (http://www.altronicsstereo2000.com)

Titanium Dome

11-19-2010, 11:08 AM

That's good to hear, since comments on the LS have not all been positive. If there's a trend that's developing, it seems that high quality electronics make a huge difference as does the listening environment. Assuming you had them set up very well--as I'm sure you did--your client had the chance to hear them at their best.

I've heard this same result from folks who've used them with high end gear in a good set up, and virtually all the complaints have stemmed from people hearing them in-home hooked up to "my trusty ol' Denon whatever" set up in the same position as the old speakers with no treatments or care for other issues, or they've been in dumpy or overcrowded showrooms with 10 loudspeakers lined up all in a row.

ronaltronics

11-19-2010, 08:16 PM

Thanks Titanum..

Well just for fun I ran the Krell S-300i Integrated and the S-350 source and a customer came in from New Brunswick Canada and ended up taken a pair with him home at the end of the 5pm demo. But they were the LS-60 the smaller floorstander. He originally was looking at the Studio L-890 But the LS series outperformed them. I really feel the Ls-80 is a bargin for the quality of sound it can reproduce even at the lowest of level it is perfect.

JBLAddict

11-20-2010, 12:22 AM

or they've been.... overcrowded showrooms with 10 loudspeakers lined up all in a row.

guilty here. I said some pretty rough things about the LS80 in this situation, minutes after listening to the 4338, S4800 (though these had fully dedicated setups). though I still stand by the B&W right next to them sounding infinitely more clear

Titanium Dome

11-20-2010, 10:30 AM

guilty here. I said some pretty rough things about the LS80 in this situation, minutes after listening to the 4338, S4800 (though these had fully dedicated setups). though I still stand by the B&W right next to them sounding infinitely more clear

Well, I wasn't thinking of you... oh wait, yes I was ! :rotfl:

Ok, kidding. The weird thing is how speakers in different positions even in the same room can sound better or worse. I'm fully educated on that with the K2s. In the first several placements, I was doubting my purchase and questioning my sanity. When the positioning finally came together it was like magic.

With those great sounding XPL200s downstairs, if I swap them with the placement of the SVA2100s, the XPLs lose a lot, and the SVAs sound worse. Placed as they are, both sets have much improved performance. The L100s down there sound better on the taller SVAs than on the shorter XPLs.

Who knows what your experience would have been if the JBLs had been in a different place and the B&Ws as well? They might have sounded the same, might have sounded better, might have sounded worse, or one could have improved while the other degraded. Since Harman/JBL built its MLL where the automatic speaker movers place speakers in the exact same locations for blind listening tests, it's one of the few places one could easily compare different brands in identical set ups.

In that situation, I blindly chose the JBL each time.

ronaltronics

11-20-2010, 10:51 AM

Thanks Titanium I think we are on the same page. When I was visiting Northridge I also went into the blind listening room. There were B&W's and others but under 3 separate tests I always ended up giving the JBL speaker the highest score. I will just say the others were not good enough overall IMO.

Also I think the Ls-80 dollar for dollar are superb. Kinda like BRYSTON.
They must have won the EISA award for (European loudspeaker of the year)for some reason.

JBLAddict

11-20-2010, 05:58 PM

I concede I need to hear them again in a dedicated setup--they were heard in an open large room, with a row of probably 12 speakers side by side, inches between them at best.....for the record it was the recessed mid-range that was THE complaint, and others chimed in with the same after I posted.

Of the sets I heard and could not afford (E2, K2, 4338, 4800), I was especially looking forward to the LS and TS8000 being more in my range, so the disappointment elicited some scathing commentary.

Though from other positive comments and awards, I do wish there was a chance to hear them as the featured set like the Altronics Stereo 2000 layout :)

polar_bear_0104

11-20-2010, 08:44 PM

Also I think the Ls-80 dollar for dollar are superb. Kinda like BRYSTON.
They must have won the EISA award for (European loudspeaker of the year)for some reason.

ron,

if you don't mind, can you give me LS 80s MSRP in Canada? just to get a sense of its competition..thanks.

ronaltronics

11-20-2010, 08:55 PM

Titanium Dome

11-20-2010, 10:44 PM

If you get me going I may even pull out the K2's

The last time someone did that for me (Widget), I ended up buying the darn things. :D

I've been broke ever since. :o:

Well, not really; it's not like I spent my last dime. I still had enough to buy him a cheap lunch and a ring for Huiky. ;)

If you ever get to LA, Widget, I'll get you a real meal.

polar_bear_0104

11-22-2010, 02:35 PM

No Problem...

The LS-80 Are $4200.00 Cdn dollars a pair. Originally they were supposed to be $5999.99 and they lowered them to that when they hit Canada. Where are you in Canada? Stop by I would love to play them for you if you are local.

I guess I just love to do demos..........

If you get me going I may even pull out the K2's

great ron.

i'm in toronto, i'll make time to visit your lair one of these days....i've set my sights on the 1400 array actually which i first heard in 2007......but i'm taking my time..i don't have the space for it yet.....i'm curious how the ls80s sound though and how it stacks against the bigger boys..

ronaltronics

11-23-2010, 07:25 PM

All I ask is that people call me ahead of time so I can set things up.

www.altronicsstereo2000.com

ronaltronics

11-25-2010, 10:00 AM

My own comment on the LS-Series. I find it totally Sad that most Audiophiles will not recognize The JBL badge as High end. I feel you will hear very few products at this quality and price point that will compete. Get over it better is better or go pay double the price with whatever logo. I even invite customers to bring other brands in for A/B comparisons and so far my feelings hold true.

OH YES Happy Thanksgiving.

Mr. Widget

11-25-2010, 01:58 PM

My own comment on the LS-Series. I find it totally Sad that most Audiophiles will not recognize The JBL badge as High end.I have only heard the LS80s. We ordered a pair for one of our customers and I got to break them in for him... so I had them at my home for a few weeks. They are not 1400 Arrays or K2s, but for $3K USD, they are pretty damned impressive. Of course with the folks on this forum that means they have to compete with 4435s and L300s... they don't do what those bigger speakers do, but they look very refined and will fit in a normal room and sound a hell of a lot more "real" than any of the competition that I can think of.

Widget

ronaltronics

11-26-2010, 11:01 AM

Thanks for your comments Widget. Man 4435 or L-300s, Thats some really stiff competition. I think the 4435 and L-300s use some major 15 inch drivers. As far as current models from other Manufacturers I think the LS-80 are a serious BARGIN.
I have a pair of 4425 here when I get a chance I will compere them to the Ls-80's just for fun.But I think the Ls-80's look a little better in a home.

Mr. Widget

11-26-2010, 11:13 AM

Man 4435 or L-300s, Thats some really stiff competition.Yes it is, but that is the reality... most everyone on this forum are willing to live with gargantuan walnut boxes and on the used market you can get a ton of JBL for $3K USD. That said, most people would rather have a pair of LS80s or Paradigms or... in their homes than a pair of ginormous vintage JBLs. On top of that, these newer JBLs are more accurate than their vintage cousins... but they certainly cannot lift the roof as well.

Widget

Titanium Dome

11-26-2010, 06:59 PM

They are not 1400 Arrays or K2s, but for $3K USD, they are pretty damned impressive. Of course with the folks on this forum that means they have to compete with 4435s and L300s... .

Widget

Heh, ain't it the truth. :D

I think everything I own has been compared to one or to both at some point. It's a fun exercise, but at the end of the day I still would rather have the newer gear (pre 07/01/10 anyway).

ronaltronics

11-28-2010, 11:28 AM

Just wondering if anyone ever had a chance to compare any A series Spendor loudspeakers to Jbl Ls or any Studio L-series. The A-9 gets a good review in magazines but they are almost double the price of LS.

ronaltronics

12-01-2010, 06:43 PM

Had fun today.I wired up the JBL LS-40 speakers to a Roksan M2 integrated and Roksan
M2 source. After everything was set up perfectly the one hour listening session turned into two.
The only word to describe it is "Gobsmacked".

www.altronicsstereo2000.com (http://www.altronicsstereo2000.com)

JeffW

12-01-2010, 09:32 PM

Yes it is, but that is the reality... most everyone on this forum are willing to live with gargantuan walnut boxes and on the used market you can get a ton of JBL for $3K USD. That said, most people would rather have a pair of LS80s or Paradigms or... in their homes than a pair of ginormous vintage JBLs. On top of that, these newer JBLs are more accurate than their vintage cousins... but they certainly cannot lift the roof as well.

Widget

Start reading at #47 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?21964-JBL-unveils-new-LS-series-Loudspeakers&p=219053&viewfull=1#post219053).

Lots of people on this forum have expressed frustration at being denied the opportunity to buy anything from the upper shelves of JBL for years. That they retreated to gargantuan walnut boxes was a result of not living in Japan.

ronaltronics

12-03-2010, 09:04 PM

Knowing alot of people on this forum seek that JBL low frequency punch and forum users are complimenting the Array 1500 subwoofer with the Array 1400's and how it help's with the matter. Big brown boxes etc. Well I will set up over the weekend the HK990 amp/cd in 2.2 with the LS-80 and two LS-120p subwoofers. And see how this modest set up performs.

polar_bear_0104

12-04-2010, 01:36 AM

ronaltronics

12-12-2010, 09:25 AM

I was really taken by the HK-990 and its performance. Superb microphone room set-up. I liked the ability to be able to go in and tell it one sub or two and it allowed me to adjust sub frequency from 40hz manually to 200hz in 10hz steps. Sound, up there with the best at this price range and more like 200 watts per channel, power to spare. A beast of an integrated amplifier.

More to come..

ronaltronics

01-10-2011, 07:42 PM

I have had time to listen to this system a little more. As far as the Hk-990 driving two Ls-120 subwoofers and the LS-80's, I found after room tuning with the integrated amplifier in my last post did a fantastic job. The Two subwoofers added a lot more low frequency punch, however I did not find it overly aggressive. This combination really performed well over a lot of different types of music styles,Jazz,Classical,rock,etc.:bouncy:

4313B

01-12-2011, 07:08 PM

Yeah. I'm looking forward to picking up a HK-990.

MikeBrewster77

01-12-2011, 07:50 PM

Yeah. I'm looking forward to picking up a HK-990.

It has literally been killing me not to pull the trigger on the combo. Just made a pretty substantial purchase though, so I'm being "good." I give it two weeks (if that) before they're on order.

MikeBrewster77

01-12-2011, 08:05 PM

It has literally been killing me not to pull the trigger on the combo. Just made a pretty substantial purchase though, so I'm being "good." I give it two weeks (if that) before they're on order.

Eh, screw it - it's on order. The integrated and CD player will be here Friday. :blink:

ronaltronics

01-15-2011, 09:27 AM

I am glad to see your reaction to the HK-990. At this price point it is a major bargin IMO.

If Anyone wants to Demo it I can Set it up for Demo anytime.....

www.altronicsstereo2000 (http://www.altronicsstereo2000).

MikeBrewster77

01-15-2011, 01:59 PM

At this price point it is a major bargin IMO.

I'd definitely have to agree. I've only had a few hours with it out of the box but a couple of features right off the bat that are impressive:

Build quality seems solid
Many input options
Bass management, which is virtually impossible to find in stereo gear
Convenience -- but then again my idea of convenience is a remote, which I lacked in my previous set-up. But the ability to manipulate many options (crossover freq, sub +/- dB's, etc.) from your listening position is very helpful
The onboard D/A conversion is very well executed. I "tested" them against the Burr-Brown's in my Denon by experimenting with different connection configurations. IMHO, the onboard DAC's in the HK provided discernably higher resolution. As a result of that test, the Denon is now connected to the HK-990 via an optical connection as it continues into service as my DVD player
The coupling between the HK-990 & the HD-990 is pretty cool, though I don't know that I'm enough of an audiophile to be able to pick out potential jitter. Irrespective, it sounds damned good. Admittedly, this is not a plus if you don't buy both.
Bearing in mind that it replaced a Luxman pre & McIntosh pro combination, it sure doesn't sound like its giving anything up. I would anecdotally say the same about the D/A conversion in the HK versus my dedicated Rotel CD player also, though I haven't "tested" that theory yet. Oh, and I haven't even touched the room optimization features either, which is another substantial selling point for this piece.

The only thing I have noticed is that while many pre's or integrated's tend to front load their volume knobs so that at about 1/2 way you're close to being maxed out, the reverse seems to be true of this unit. While it's not a traditional volume knob (in the sense that there's no "tick" mark as a frame of reference) I've had it close to single -dB digits, which when your coming from 80 down and you're driving fairly efficient speakers, is a little scary. It's not that the power isn't there, you just have to press the volume button on the remote for a while to get there. Having said that, my Luxman pre was typically pushed to the half way point on a good night, which would have put me in the -dB teens, so I guess it's comparable.

Long story short, I'm pretty impressed for the price. :)

MikeBrewster77

01-15-2011, 03:05 PM

... It's not that the power isn't there, you just have to press the volume button on the remote for a while to get there...

Being as I'm not in the habit of taking scientific measurements when I listen to music, I don't own any professional SPL meters or the like. But, after having written the prior post, I did get a little curious. So I did what everybody does these days when they want to do something but don't have the right tools for the job -- I downloaded an app for my phone. Yes, there is an app for that ... in fact, there are several.

Granted, it's a phone and thus a far cry from a professional test device. However, it did very accurately reflect the level shown in big numbers on the HK's display.

Conclusions from this rather un-scientific experiment:
1.) I have no frame of reference for noise levels in terms of dB's
2.) As a corollary to number one, I listen to music more loudly than I thought
3.) As a corrollary to both numbers one and two, maybe those noise violations I received back in the days when I lived in an apartment were justified. My bad, former neighbors. My bad....
4.) The HK's display is seemingly quite accurate
5.) As a corollary to number four, I probably had every reason to be scared when I saw the number on the display :p

ronaltronics

01-16-2011, 05:41 AM

It really is a special integrated at it's price range.

There is just one feature you did not mention that always gets no attention.If I could only get your comments on that......

It has a MM/MC phono stage input and just to let you know I have a couple of fantastic turntables to hook up to it,with some Great 180 gram vynil.

Here it is with no bouncy...

www.altronicsstereo2000.com (http://www.altronicsstereo2000.com)

MikeBrewster77

01-16-2011, 08:51 AM

There is just one feature you did not mention that always gets no attention.If I could only get your comments on that......

It has a MM/MC phono stage input ....

Hey Ron,

I have mutiple systems in the house, and right now I only have one through which I spin vinyl. That said, I also have quite a few tables laying around, so I'm sure at some point I'll get one hooked up to the HK. The thing is, I'm out of rack space in that system at the moment, so until I get around to hanging the flatscreen, that's not going to happen. But I am looking forward to hearing if it truly is the "audiophile grade preamp section" it's described to be in the product literature. ;)

Best,
- Mike

P.S., Your link still doesn't work -- not that I wasn't able to simply copy and paste and add the dot com, but just saying. Aww, hell -- I'm such a nice guy I'll just do it for you (no affiliation, of course.): http://www.altronicsstereo2000.com/

localhost127

01-17-2011, 04:59 PM

id be interested in hearing a review of the headphone amp on the HK990 ... im fairly satisfied with my HK 3490 power output, but haven't truly compared it to a proper dedicated headphone amp if the HK 990 has a better headphone amp (noticeably), then that would be another reason to upgrade (and one less byproduct to buy)

MikeBrewster77

01-17-2011, 05:21 PM

id be interested in hearing a review of the headphone amp on the HK990 ...

I live in a house ... alone. Sorry, but I'm not the guy to help you with a review of the headphone section ;). Don't even own a pair other than some Sennheiser earbuds I use when flying.

ronaltronics

01-17-2011, 07:55 PM

This integrated amplifier is to good for headphones. It really deserves a pair of JBL LS-80
Loudspeakers.

Mike what kind of loudspeakers are you going to put on the 990.

Better be some kind of JBL.......:D

MikeBrewster77

01-17-2011, 08:49 PM

Mike what kind of loudspeakers are you going to put on the 990.

Better be some kind of JBL.......:D

Please ... but of course! ;)

It's currently paired with the Performance Series, soon to be mated to two Ti10k's.

localhost127

01-18-2011, 05:40 AM

I live in a house ... alone. Sorry, but I'm not the guy to help you with a review of the headphone section ;). Don't even own a pair other than some Sennheiser earbuds I use when flying.

damn you!

MikeBrewster77

01-18-2011, 03:34 PM

damn you!

Eh ... I've been told worse :p

That aside, and I don't mean to turn this into an HK-990 thread, but there does seem to be some interest. It's getting good press from what I've seen: http://www.mediaaudio.hr/site/upload_press/hk990_hd_990_test.pdf

That said, the reviewer did not have good luck with the connection between the integrated and the HD-990 using the HRS connection. Looks like I'm going to have to give the balanced XLR's a try and see if I notice a difference.

ronaltronics

01-20-2011, 02:45 PM

MikeBrewster77

01-20-2011, 09:11 PM

Hey mike.

Sorry to see the troubles your having with the ti-10k tweeters. I dont know what you paid
for them at the clearence sale. Did you ever consider the Jbl Ls-80's or are they out of the budget range?

After you get your new tweeters and install them I hope it all works out for you. I always liked the Ti-10k's myself, The sound was great and the cabinet construction was top notch.

Hi Ron:

The LS-80's are well within budget. Actually, I should clarify: There was in fact no budget as this wasn't really a planned upgrade. Rather, I purchased the Ti10K for a number of specific reasons I shared in the first post on the thread covering my experience to date. In short, the reasons were:

Love the design/aesthetics
Sheer curiosity
Great driver complement, including a mid that (given that it's essentially equivalent to the one in the PS) I know I already greatly respect
Virtually unlimited tweak-ability in terms of amplification
Closeout pricing on what was originally a $7K MSRP pair
Ability to multi-purpose them throughout the house if they didn't work in my "statement system"

If I was considering a "budgeted" upgrade, I have to be honest and admit that the LS-80's wouldn't be in the mix for a few reasons.

First, I've come to the decision that the next set of new JBL's I buy will be the 1400 Array or greater. And trust me, I debated internally as to whether to just take the plunge with them, or go another route. I decided at this time to hold off a bit. (N.b., since the Ti10K's are factory re-furbed units, they don't count as the purchase of a new JBL :p)
No ability to personally audition them without extensive travel

Admittedly, the same holds true with the Ti10K's, but see the notes above about their appeal to me

Opinions on the forum here from those who had heard them were mixed at best. I've bought several JBL speakers unheard, but I've been fortunate to have some solid advice from other forum members that have experienced them. When the vast majority of the LS-80 reviews here were less than stellar, it certainly gave me pause.

I'm sure the LS-80 is a damned nice speaker at its price point, and it has an extremely attractive appearance. That said, I'm not so sure that the Ti10K and the LS-80 are even a fair comparison. Like I said, I've never heard them, rather I'm basing that on specs, pricing, feedback I read here, etc.

ronaltronics

01-26-2011, 08:11 PM

Thanks Mike,

I think with the LS-line of speakers we must compare them to a louspeaker from other manufacturers at the same price point. I have no idea what the LS-80's are retail in the U.S. but I cannot imagine they are expensive at all.

As I have mentioned before I have run them with Bryston and found they were impressive.

JBLAddict

01-28-2011, 11:25 AM

I'm sure the LS-80 is a damned nice speaker at its price point

thing is the MSRP from the JBL Japan site is ~$2400ea, so the truth of this depends on your listening experience

from my experience 5K on this set is out of line. what's interesting is we have two dealers on this page with opposing views. not implying anything by that statement, just think it gives some rise questions about setup/EQ, vs their native unaltered output

Mr. Widget

01-28-2011, 11:44 AM

A third dealer's opinion...

We sold a pair of LS 80s to a customer who had a $10K pair of Focals and he positively loves his new JBLs. I had them in my home system to break them in for him prior to delivery and I thought they were nice enough, but they didn't blow me away like the 1400 Arrays have. Of course they are significantly less expensive too. The US list price is $1500 ea. I thought they bested the $2000 ra. Revel F32s in some ways, but were not quite as refined over all.

Widget

JBLAddict

01-28-2011, 01:11 PM

further interesting then, as 1.5K per side in today's $ is fairly modest. still, from what I heard, them besting any revel model is something I'd like to hear

Mr. Widget

01-28-2011, 03:22 PM

further interesting then, as 1.5K per side in today's $ is fairly modest.Yep!

...still, from what I heard, them besting any revel model is something I'd like to hearWell, I said "in some ways"... overall I preferred the similarly sized and slightly more expensive Revels. I do think for a modest Home Theater, the LS series is an excellent choice. For a more "audiophile" experience, I prefer the more refined Revels.

All in all, I think JBL did a very good job of maximizing the bang for the buck quotient with these speakers. Sure, if one is willing to live with a refrigerator sized walnut box then there are many vintage options in this price range, but for a more civilized look and size the LS Series is light years ahead of the vintage offerings and would be a Klipsch killer if Harman was better at marketing their products.

Widget

ronaltronics

01-28-2011, 09:18 PM

Yes when the price comes into factor the LS-80's are a great value. I have heard the Revels a few times in my ventures but they never really grabbed me in any way. Maybe just how they were set up at the shows. As far as Klipsch goes I hear they are in negotiations to be purchased . That should keep quality control up.:blink: (NOT)

I would hope the ls series does not get compared from the Array's up, because that is just comparing A------to-------Z, In price and quality. One thing I have learned in life is (you get what you pay for)

Cheers
Ron.

Titanium Dome

01-28-2011, 10:07 PM

Yep!

Well, I said "in some ways"... overall I preferred the similarly sized and slightly more expensive Revels. I do think for a modest Home Theater, the LS series is an excellent choice. For a more "audiophile" experience, I prefer the more refined Revels.

All in all, I think JBL did a very good job of maximizing the bang for the buck quotient with these speakers. Sure, if one is willing to live with a refrigerator sized walnut box then there are many vintage options in this price range, but for a more civilized look and size the LS Series is light years ahead of the vintage offerings and would be a Klipsch killer if Harman was better at marketing their products.

Widget

Hey Widget, please don't say "killer" as it reminds me of the iPod, iPhone, iPad pseudo- wars that waste so much Internet bandwidth. :banghead: That said, I respect your opinion and experience. I've only heard them once and hated the room, the electronics, the demonstrator, the music choice, so cannot have a useful opinion.

Any chance we'll see them at CAS next year? I'd drive up just to hear them and have dinner with you. I'd love to compare them in the same room with 1400s for example, knowing we're talking a magnitude of difference in price points and market segment.

Will you be showing at THE Show in the OC this summer?

I could literally show you to the grave if you spent a couple of days down here with me, Grumpy, and Tony. We could even get the K2s into your room if you thought those OCers would buy a pair or two.

But the point is LS-80s, so are you guys coming this way? It's a big effing market down in the OC.

I have to be frank and write that I'm not that fond of the lower level Revels. Why not just get Infinity speakers at a better price point? But you know I love the Ultima2 Salons. :)

Mr. Widget

01-29-2011, 11:58 AM

Hey Widget, please don't say "killer" as it reminds me of the iPod, iPhone, iPad pseudo- wars that waste so much Internet bandwidth. :banghead: I guess I don't waste my time lurking the corridors of the internet... I have no idea what you are referring to.

Any chance we'll see them at CAS next year? I have no idea what we will be showing... we haven't made any firm plans yet. The venue will be changed. I hope the rooms are better.

Will you be showing at THE Show in the OC this summer? Nope... there are a number of other Synthesis dealers that are located in Southern California, perhaps one of them will bring some cool gear to the show.

I have to be frank and write that I'm not that fond of the lower level Revels. Why not just get Infinity speakers at a better price point? But you know I love the Ultima2 Salons. :)Not sure which Revels you have heard. I do like the M22 and the F32. The others don't particularly float my boat.

Widget