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View Full Version : C56 Dorian versus 4312



davidpou
08-31-2010, 01:29 AM
Hi everyone,
I just got myself very beautiful pair of C56 Dorian. They are cosmetically in very very good shape including all original notice warranty and tech sheet that were going along with the product at the time.
I live in France but everything seems to come directly from the states since nothing is translated. They have an LE14A as a woofer and the association 1217-1290 with LE 85 or LE 175 (I cannot tell) high medium forming the LE175DLH. The filter is the LX10.
So far my 4312 were my sole JBL reference.
I was recently complaining on this site for the (too light) bass on the 4312 but a change of wire improved greatly the situation and I now “fly” without my sub on sweet reggae!
The sound on the C56 seems smashed down as compared with the 4312, less projecting. The bass is let’s say deeper of course but not necessarily as precise, and the medium seems completely reduced, less aerated or transparent!
Useless to say I was disappointed as I tough this luxury speaker would outperform the 4312.

I have two questions:
1) does anyone possess both speakers and can validate my impression ?
2) the woofer and the filter are clearly labelled 8 ohms, but I cannot read anything about the medium high and I had somewhere in mind that these would take 16 ohms?
3) any idea of how much do the C56 are worth say in the USA (as a reference) provided they are almost mint (say 9/10 cosmetically).

shaansloan
09-02-2010, 12:25 PM
Hi everyone,
I just got myself very beautiful pair of C56 Dorian. They are cosmetically in very very good shape including all original notice warranty and tech sheet that were going along with the product at the time.
I live in France but everything seems to come directly from the states since nothing is translated. They have an LE14A as a woofer and the association 1217-1290 with LE 85 or LE 175 (I cannot tell) high medium forming the LE175DLH. The filter is the LX10.
So far my 4312 were my sole JBL reference.
I was recently complaining on this site for the (too light) bass on the 4312 but a change of wire improved greatly the situation and I now “fly” without my sub on sweet reggae!
The sound on the C56 seems smashed down as compared with the 4312, less projecting. The bass is let’s say deeper of course but not necessarily as precise, and the medium seems completely reduced, less aerated or transparent!
Useless to say I was disappointed as I tough this luxury speaker would outperform the 4312.

I have two questions:
1) does anyone possess both speakers and can validate my impression ?
2) the woofer and the filter are clearly labelled 8 ohms, but I cannot read anything about the medium high and I had somewhere in mind that these would take 16 ohms?
3) any idea of how much do the C56 are worth say in the USA (as a reference) provided they are almost mint (say 9/10 cosmetically).

Hey David, what you have there is a set of JBL L101's with the LE14 - 175 config in Dorian cabinets...it is a 8 ohm system... should have white marble tops and wood grills. If these units are all original and in NM condition they can bring as much a $1500 in the US market.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1973-l101.htm

Sonically, being a two way system are not gonna be quite as full as your 4312's. One thing you can do to improve the bass response is to treat the original Lansaloy surrounds with DOT3 brake fluid. It will make an incredible difference. here is a link to how that is done... http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27548-Lansaloy-DOT3-Surround-Treament-for-LE-14A-and-others&highlight=brake+fluid You can also EQ these and get a bit better range out of them.

That being said these L101's are probably not going to perform quite as well as the 4312's no matter what you do. The deal with these is that they are more of a nostalgic collectors kind of a thing, although in their day there were quite a speaker and in the right application with the right genre of music they can really sound sweet.

Let me know if i can be of further help... God Bless, Shaan

davidpou
09-03-2010, 08:54 AM
One thing you can do to improve the bass response is to treat the original Lansaloy surrounds with DOT3 brake fluid. It will make an incredible difference. here is a link to how that is done... http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27548-Lansaloy-DOT3-Surround-Treament-for-LE-14A-and-others&highlight=brake+fluid You can also EQ these and get a bit better range out of them.

Let me know if i can be of further help... God Bless, Shaan[/QUOTE]

Thank you for these info.
I will follow your advice about the brake fluid. I called the producer in the US and they do not export this very one product to france (only to greece and in big, very big amount!). the guy was kind enough to tell me that any other prodcut containing DOT 3 will be similar ;).... so I will look for a french equivalent....
on the other hand, what do you mean by EQ them ? my preamp is a C220 (could not find a C22 at a reasonable price yet! the amp is MC 275 CE). So i played with the treble and it improved a little that's right but as i wrote it doesn't reach the 4312 by far. so much so that i though for a time i should change 8 to 16 or even 4 ohms... but you confirm it is 8 ohms, so...
I am not saying the sound is awful, it is actually better than any other speakers I have (except the 4312)... and you are also confirming that they will not reach the latter.
many thanks for your help once again,
dave

shaansloan
09-03-2010, 05:37 PM
One thing you can do to improve the bass response is to treat the original Lansaloy surrounds with DOT3 brake fluid. It will make an incredible difference. here is a link to how that is done... http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27548-Lansaloy-DOT3-Surround-Treament-for-LE-14A-and-others&highlight=brake+fluid You can also EQ these and get a bit better range out of them.

Let me know if i can be of further help... God Bless, Shaan

Thank you for these info.
I will follow your advice about the brake fluid. I called the producer in the US and they do not export this very one product to france (only to greece and in big, very big amount!). the guy was kind enough to tell me that any other prodcut containing DOT 3 will be similar ;).... so I will look for a french equivalent....
on the other hand, what do you mean by EQ them ? my preamp is a C220 (could not find a C22 at a reasonable price yet! the amp is MC 275 CE). So i played with the treble and it improved a little that's right but as i wrote it doesn't reach the 4312 by far. so much so that i though for a time i should change 8 to 16 or even 4 ohms... but you confirm it is 8 ohms, so...
I am not saying the sound is awful, it is actually better than any other speakers I have (except the 4312)... and you are also confirming that they will not reach the latter.
many thanks for your help once again,
dave[/QUOTE]

Be careful to follow the instructions closely.... you dont want to get excess fluid on the white aquaplas cone.... Once you do this, that speaker will come alive... the MC275 is just about as good of an amp as you could use with this L101...

By EQ I mean, use a 10 band or better equalizer.... this will again provide some really good improvement... another thing is just in case, work your crossover adjustment back and forth about 50-70 times just to be sure it is not causing a problem... if you listen while you do this, you can get a feel for just how dirty the contacts are on the crossover pot....

Once you have done the brake fluid thing and they have had a good 24 hrs on both sides, and if you add an EQ, you will be splendidly surprised as to how well this speaker performs.... really good with Jazz, Classical and vocal type music...... :)

Hope it goes well, that is a fairly rare speaker at this point.... especially in original near mint condition.... a vintage JBL treasure IMO..... Shaan

davidpou
09-04-2010, 04:53 AM
Thank you for these info.


By EQ I mean, use a 10 band or better equalizer.... this will again provide some really good improvement... another thing is just in case, work your crossover adjustment back and forth about 50-70 times just to be sure it is not causing a problem... if you listen while you do this, you can get a feel for just how dirty the contacts are on the crossover pot....

Once you have done the brake fluid thing and they have had a good 24 hrs on both sides, and if you add an EQ, you will be splendidly surprised as to how well this speaker performs.... really good with Jazz, Classical and vocal type music...... :)

Well many thanks for all these advices.
I found a french equivalent DOT 3 brake fluide... on the link you provided earlier it says 12 h per side... do you mean it is better 24 h per side ?
in terms of EQ i don't know... I tried once a DBX filter (ok nothing to do a priori, my point is adding an electronic device in between ) with poor satisfaction: it changed the stereo and
gave the sound and electronic taste... I was thinking of keeping things simple... but may be you can advice also on the EQ... where do you put it between cd player and preamp or preamp / amp ?
I still have to get the pin to get my wire into the damn small hole of the binding post. I am trying on parts express but their site seems to have a pb at the moment when it comes to pay...
by next week i ll have every thing and we ll try to get some juice out of these vintage things.
I ll try to display pictures for fun.

shaansloan
09-05-2010, 12:45 PM
Well many thanks for all these advices.
I found a french equivalent DOT 3 brake fluide... on the link you provided earlier it says 12 h per side... do you mean it is better 24 h per side ?
in terms of EQ i don't know... I tried once a DBX filter (ok nothing to do a priori, my point is adding an electronic device in between ) with poor satisfaction: it changed the stereo and
gave the sound and electronic taste... I was thinking of keeping things simple... but may be you can advice also on the EQ... where do you put it between cd player and preamp or preamp / amp ?
I still have to get the pin to get my wire into the damn small hole of the binding post. I am trying on parts express but their site seems to have a pb at the moment when it comes to pay...
by next week i ll have every thing and we ll try to get some juice out of these vintage things.
I ll try to display pictures for fun.

Sorry, yes 12 hr per side is fine.... be sure you get plenty of fluid to soak into the surrounds, this will really make them pliable and improve your sound....

I have posted a picture below of a Yamaha equalizer...and also a few pics of my L101's...

Let us know how it goes... Shaan

davidpou
09-14-2010, 12:17 PM
[QUOTE=shaansloan;294600]Hey David, what you have there is a set of JBL L101's with the LE14 - 175 config in Dorian cabinets...it is a 8 ohm system... should have white marble tops and wood grills.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1973-l101.htm

Hi,
i am coming back to our first topic about impedance (16 or 8 ohms). I have red the link you kindly placed in your answer. all right; actually my question was coming from the reading of the tech manual that says the high frequency are in 16 ohms in term of nominal impedance. I tried to put it in attachment to this post. so do you think this could explain the fact the med high seems compressed ?

shaansloan
09-14-2010, 01:03 PM
[QUOTE=shaansloan;294600]Hey David, what you have there is a set of JBL L101's with the LE14 - 175 config in Dorian cabinets...it is a 8 ohm system... should have white marble tops and wood grills.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1973-l101.htm

Hi,
i am coming back to our first topic about impedance (16 or 8 ohms). I have red the link you kindly placed in your answer. all right; actually my question was coming from the reading of the tech manual that says the high frequency are in 16 ohms in term of nominal impedance. I tried to put it in attachment to this post. so do you think this could explain the fact the med high seems compressed ?

Good to here from you....how did the treatment on the Lansaloy go? please tell us....

Also, did you try adding an EQ? trust me, this can make a huge improvement in the overall performance of these speakers...

Med/High Compressed... Sorry David, but I am not that technically astute when it comes to these kinds of things... maybe one of the fine folks here on the forum can add some insight as to why the med/high seems compressed... I certainly do not experience that problem on my L101's that I am aware of... in fact, the 175 seems to be particularly good at that frequency range.... can anyone ad some insight for David? thanks Shaan

davidpou
09-14-2010, 10:15 PM
[QUOTE=davidpou;295479]

Good to here from you....how did the treatment on the Lansaloy go? please tell us....

Also, did you try adding an EQ? trust me, this can make a huge improvement in the overall performance of these speakers...

HI,
I will tell you as soon as i did it! i am getting married the 25th of this month so with work and alll I have no time. I just played them now to see if it comes from not working for i don't know how long. The sure thing is i get some high and med so they are working.
I found where to buy the DOT3 (but this will act on the woofer only, and my listening pb comes from the med!), i havent found a reasonably priced EQ but that shoud'nt be a pb...
i am thinking of rewiring them .... or unpluging the med high and use them in complement bass for my 4312.... or even selling .... cause really you have the impression the music is in another room and you perceive mainly the bass....
thanks for continuing this thread

davidpou
10-03-2010, 09:52 AM
[QUOTE=davidpou;295479]

Good to here from you....how did the treatment on the Lansaloy go? please tell us....

Also, did you try adding an EQ? trust me, this can make a huge improvement in the overall performance of these speakers...

Med/High Compressed... Sorry David, but I am not that technically astute when it comes to these kinds of things... maybe one of the fine folks here on the forum can add some insight as to why the med/high seems compressed... I certainly do not experience that problem on my L101's that I am aware of... in fact, the 175 seems to be particularly good at that frequency range.... can anyone ad some insight for David? thanks Shaan

Hi,
ok i just got hte DOT 3 but didn't applied it yet. I just ran some "test" by unplugging the LF connection at the back and realised the HF were not working or if at very very low volume. I looks like my LX10 are disfunctioning. I managed to turn them so as to find a position where they are working alright but i am missing the fine tuning.... but its all new speakers i have now ! what a difference obviously....
ok i need these LX10 to be checked .... any advice for simple repairs that could be done at home (with pictures if possible) or any adress where to send them to (even in the US)?
I though a time to sell them but from what I hear i am ready to put some extra bucks in these speakers....(i love the bass)....

shaansloan
10-03-2010, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE=shaansloan;295483] I looks like my LX10 are disfunctioning. I managed to turn them so as to find a position where they are working alright but i am missing the fine tuning.... ok i need these LX10 to be checked .... any advice for simple repairs that could be done at home (with pictures if possible) or any adress where to send them to (even in the US)?..(i love the bass)....

David, from the post below.... try this first.... "another thing is just in case, work your crossover adjustment back and forth about 50-70 times just to be sure it is not causing a problem... if you listen while you do this, you can get a feel for just how dirty the contacts are on the crossover pot.... "

That will probably fix you intermittent HF problem.... also, do the brake fluid thing and your bass will sound much much better...the LE14 is an excellent driver, and it is tuned very well in the C56 cabinet....also, you could damage the Lansaloy surrounds if you play them without treating them... these speakers are over 40 years old and the surrounds need to be treated.... Let us know how it goes! Shaan

davidpou
10-07-2010, 10:06 AM
[QUOTE=davidpou;296710]

David, from the post below.... try this first.... "another thing is just in case, work your crossover adjustment back and forth about 50-70 times just to be sure it is not causing a problem... if you listen while you do this, you can get a feel for just how dirty the contacts are on the crossover pot.... "

That will probably fix you intermittent HF problem.... also, do the brake fluid thing and your bass will sound much much better...the LE14 is an excellent driver, and it is tuned very well in the C56 cabinet....also, you could damage the Lansaloy surrounds if you play them without treating them... these speakers are over 40 years old and the surrounds need to be treated.... Let us know how it goes! Shaan
the turning process did not improved the situation. I am told by a tech this after noon that the potentiometer are dead. I am starting a quest to find them. i have asked for an adress on the technical forum here. in the mean time i defenitly will apply the DOT3... this I can do.... as soon as i have time.
Thanks again for sticking with me shaan!
i will let you know when the speakers will be re assembled again what it says with pictures.... very similar to yours actually!

shaansloan
10-07-2010, 12:08 PM
[QUOTE=shaansloan;296756]
the turning process did not improved the situation. I am told by a tech this after noon that the potentiometer are dead. I am starting a quest to find them. i have asked for an adress on the technical forum here. in the mean time i defenitly will apply the DOT3... this I can do.... as soon as i have time.
Thanks again for sticking with me shaan!
i will let you know when the speakers will be re assembled again what it says with pictures.... very similar to yours actually!

Hey David, look here.... it closes today... http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-LX10-Pair-Crossovers-MINT-Working-Condition-/260671576775?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb13c9ac7

Does anyone know if the LX10 can be disassembled and cleaned?

davidpou
10-28-2010, 08:13 AM
[QUOTE=davidpou;297016]

Hey David, look here.... it closes today... http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-LX10-Pair-Crossovers-MINT-Working-Condition-/260671576775?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb13c9ac7

Does anyone know if the LX10 can be disassembled and cleaned?

Hi shaan !
sorry for taking so long...
Many things happened: I received the Lpad from parts express after some pb for paying (their bloody site! fault's!) I went to th tech I know here and he fixed them up ! last evening i put the DOT 3 stuff before going to bed! And also i had the internal wire changed from the same people i got my speaker wires, just smaller ones... these need 30 hours of working before giving their best.
So you see I did a lot ! allthis would be too good if... I haven't find the rub thingy i put the DOt 3 on all wrikled like an old dick this morning!
See pictures... I was nice and smooth before and now it seems eaten by the DOT 3 ! have you got that ? I have to confess i was mad.... my family had a very bad beakfast ! but now i have them playing... well it's alltogether a different story... it was not the capacitors but the lpad definitly!
But now I am scared the whole woofer is gonna be ruined ! I didn't applied it on the other side (the internal one) obviously. I sware i used a Qtip and did not soak it with ! so please tell me it goes wrikled...481744817548176
hope you can see the pics .... not sure I managed....
anyway they sound brillant now....no need for the EQ for me....and I hope it will last

shaansloan
10-28-2010, 09:15 AM
[QUOTE=shaansloan;297020]

Hi shaan !
sorry for taking so long...
Many things happened: I received the Lpad from parts express after some pb for paying (their bloody site! fault's!) I went to th tech I know here and he fixed them up ! last evening i put the DOT 3 stuff before going to bed! And also i had the internal wire changed from the same people i got my speaker wires, just smaller ones... these need 30 hours of working before giving their best.
So you see I did a lot ! allthis would be too good if... I haven't find the rub thingy i put the DOt 3 on all wrikled like an old dick this morning!
See pictures... I was nice and smooth before and now it seems eaten by the DOT 3 ! have you got that ? I have to confess i was mad.... my family had a very bad beakfast ! but now i have them playing... well it's alltogether a different story... it was not the capacitors but the lpad definitly!
But now I am scared the whole woofer is gonna be ruined ! I didn't applied it on the other side (the internal one) obviously. I sware i used a Qtip and did not soak it with ! so please tell me it goes wrikled...481744817548176
hope you can see the pics .... not sure I managed....
anyway they sound brillant now....no need for the EQ for me....and I hope it will last


Hi David, glad to hear you got the HF problem corrected with the crossovers...

yes the wrinkles are very common....thats what happens because the Lansaloy is actually absorbing the fluid and becoming pliable again. What you need to do is make sure you get alot of brake fluid on that lansaloy....but you need to follow the procedure properly.... its needs to soak in real well so cover it good on one side, let is sit for at least 12 hours(better for 24) and then flip it over and do the other side and give it plenty of time to soak in....make sure you get plenty of brake fluid all over the surface of the surround, but not too much so it doesn't get on the white aquaplas cone.... you probably should repeat the process on both sides since it hasn't ever been done before and those surrounds are real brittle(being over 40 years old now). You wont be disappointed with the improvement in the lower end when this is done right.

Lets us know how it goes.... once you get these guys running it top shape, give it a few weeks with many different genres of music and i think you will find them to be a real treasure! Shaan

davidpou
10-28-2010, 09:34 AM
[QUOTE=davidpou;298339]


Hi David, glad to hear you got the HF problem corrected with the crossovers...

yes the wrinkles are very common....thats what happens because the Lansaloy is actually absorbing the fluid and becoming pliable again. What you need to do is make sure you get alot of brake fluid on that lansaloy....but you need to follow the procedure properly.... its needs to soak in real well so cover it good on one side, let is sit for at least 12 hours(better for 24) and then flip it over and do the other side and give it plenty of time to soak in....make sure you get plenty of brake fluid all over the surface of the surround, but not too much so it doesn't get on the white aquaplas cone.... you probably should repeat the process on both sides since it hasn't ever been done before and those surrounds are real brittle(being over 40 years old now). You wont be disappointed with the improvement in the lower end when this is done right.

Lets us know how it goes.... once you get these guys running it top shape, give it a few weeks with many different genres of music and i think you will find them to be a real treasure! Shaan

Excellent i can breath now ... and go back to work I have another side to do then!
still it s suprising ! I do not know how thick is the lansaloy but i really thought it didn't appreaciate the treat ! thanks for your fast answer. I will let it dry completly again tonight and go back to it tomorrow eve! Ill let you know ! When i think i had them for free ! (well two hours of my precious time actually)!
have a nice afternoon ... or so it is for you...