Homage to Northridge

[richluvsound]

Hi Folks,

this is my latest offering to the JBL Gods .......
Still a few things tweak ,but I want to get the parts in and fire them up . I'm not convinced by the colour nor am I happy with the way the top looks from the front .

At the moment a 2 way with a tricked out 2234 and 2435 on H9800 horn. CC networks courtesy of Guido - 130 ltrs and tuned to 35 htz .

Anyway , the top can stay untill I find a tweeter . :)

[louped garouv]

i dig 'em...

:D

and continue to realize how much of a butcher i am...

:(

[robertbartsch]

You Sir are a craftsman!

[Titanium Dome]

Aces for sure... :applaud:

[scott fitlin]

NICE! :applaud:

[rdgrimes]

This is the kind of work that makes me realize I should never attempt DIY speakers. :(

[Audiobeer]

Stunning Rich! Absolutely beautiful!

[HCSGuy]

I can't find the thread where you were offering these as unloaded DIY kits - can you refresh my memory?:p

Absolutely beautiful, I can't wait to hear the report on how they sound!

[Robh3606]

Those look great!

Rob:)

[yggdrasil]

Looking very good indeed.

Your work is really impressing (as usual) !

[svollmer]

Absolutely awesome! I think the grey goes really well with the maple, but I can also see a lot of other colors looking nice with it. They are really beautiful cabinets. :applaud:

[Fangio]

Makes me wish to visit London again. :)

[4313B]

Awesome job Rich! I'd love to hear them. :yes:

[hjames]

C'mon, you're way too modest - they look GREAT so far, and I'm sure they'll pass stunning as you finish the design. Way cool, indeed!


Hi Folks,

this is my latest offering to the JBL Gods .......
Still a few things tweak ,but I want to get the parts in and fire them up . I'm not convinced by the colour nor am I happy with the way the top looks from the front .

Anyway , the top can stay untill I find a tweeter . :)

[Chas]

Simply gorgeous Rich. :)

[Earl K]

Beautiful Rich !

Also, I love seeing pics of the shop .:p


<. cheers

[Woody Banks]

Rich

STELLAR JOB! ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!

[SEAWOLF97]

They look very fine Rich....bet they will sound just as good.

my only very minor quibble is that it might look even better if the horn bottom and protrusion on the cab ended at the same place...mebbe this was not something that you could control ?

(I feel guilty even mentioning that as I can only barely nail down shingles)

[grumpy]

... wait for the grille :)

[richluvsound]

Quick update ,

got the internals from Guido today .Got one hooked up and will get the other cab tomorrow.

[Robh3606]

Hello Rich

Not to dampen your enthusiasm or slow you down but you may want to get an o-ring gasket in the back-cap. If you look at the 435Be it has an o ring that helps seal the driver. My thought is you may get some modulation of the diaphragm in the compression driver from the bass driver without it. It's not needed in the Vertec Driver as the HF drivers are in a separate sub-enclosure. I know I had a problem with one of my 4344's because I had an air leak in the 2122 sub-enclosure. The back pressure from the 2235 was modulating the cone. I have attached a picture so you can see what I mean. The O ring fits snugly around the aluminum mounting sleeve of the diaphragm.

It may not be an issue but I figured I would bring it up. Lets see if anyone else chimes in on this one.

Rob:)

[richluvsound]

No worries Rob,

by all means chime in with any suggestions. I realise I will have a bit of tweaking to and any help is most welcome .
I'll get Guido to order me some when he gets back from his vacation .

Rich

[Robh3606]

Hello Rich

I deleted it and then undeleted it after I saw you read it. After I thought about it I realized the 2431 is used in SR boxes with no gasket so it might simply be a non issue. You may get a good enough seal with the other back-cap. In the SR back caps you have flat area in the standard SR 2431/2435 back-cap that sits on the mounting ring. You don't have that flat ring on the 435Be back-cap. Could be that's why they use the O ring in the 435Be. Just a case of not thinking things all the way through before posting.

Rob:)

[Hoerninger]

I deleted it and then undeleted it after I saw you read it.

IMHO well done, Rob. This is an open forum (worldwide :) ) and not everybody, who wants to make the best with his drivers, is aware of your experience. In this forum there are quite a few who regularly read but never post.

Sorry for chiming in.
____________
Peter

[richluvsound]

Hello Rich

I deleted it and then undeleted it after I saw you read it. After I thought about it I realized the 2431 is used in SR boxes with no gasket so it might simply be a non issue. You may get a good enough seal with the other back-cap. In the SR back caps you have flat area in the standard SR 2431/2435 back-cap that sits on the mounting ring. You don't have that flat ring on the 435Be back-cap. Could be that's why they use the O ring in the 435Be. Just a case of not thinking things all the way through before posting.

Rob:)

Hi Rob ,

I gave your comments a lot of thought . I also did a little experiment . I held my hand on the back of the 2435 with the 2234 going .......:( and then again ,without the 2234. Quite a bit of high speed vibration ..... Although I cant hear any contamination logic dictates that to reduce that interference can only improve things . A dog box is not out of the question so slong as iI keep it a small as possible. I could create isolation with an air gap between the driver and the inside of a box . The box could follow the contour of the horn , but not touch it .

Am I going in the right direction ?

Rich

[Robh3606]

Am I going in the right direction ?


Hello Rich

The reason I originally pulled the post was so I wouldn't potentialy get you looking at something that is not a problem. As long as there is a good seal with the back-cap there should be no issues. I didn't want to send you on a wild goose chase.

Rob:)

[richluvsound]

More Goop Doctor ! :D

[Robh3606]

More Goop Doctor ! :D

There you go that would work!

Rob:)

[macaroonie]

Well Rich for skip raking they have come out VERY nicely indeed. You clearly have not lost your touch. I take it the goop is finely blended Scotts porridge oats. :D:D Those just have to sound good , nice work. M

[richluvsound]

Hi folks,


Id' like to thank all that have taken the time to check out the thread and post the wonderful compliments

Speakers are up and running , but still far from finished . The networks are very good ,but they have been designed so I can have a fiddle with the sound . So I'll be doing that for a few weeks .

The signal path is pretty clean, although far from high end. I have started collecting the parts for a little Pass clone . Nothing too demanding for first amp build .

thanks again , Rich:D

[timc]

How does the 2234 compare to the 150MH (is this the correct name?) and the 1500Al?

[richluvsound]

How does the 2234 compare to the 150MH (is this the correct name?) and the 1500Al?

with a little tweaking ;)

My 2234 = Yellow
stock 2234 = Pink
1500 AL = Red

[jerry_rig]

At the moment a 2 way with a tricked out 2234 and 2435 on H9800 horn. CC networks courtesy of Guido - 130 ltrs and tuned to 35 htz .

If you don't mind, in what way is your 2234 tricked out? Many thanks.

[grumpy]

I'm picturing an sl1200 and a paintbrush :)

[caladois]

and what about the crossover ? Is it similar to K2, or active or ... ? Please Rich, let us know


Regards Stephane

[timc]

with a little tweaking ;)

My 2234 = Yellow
stock 2234 = Pink
1500 AL = Red



Weeeeell....i was thinking more soundwise really. But nice FR.

[richluvsound]

Weeeeell....i was thinking more soundwise really. But nice FR.


The idea behind the 2234 was the snap you get .... I wanted something quick . When we first used the 150 ME I found the sound a bit boomy ... 1500 al would have been nice ,but the new cost is just plain silly . I was at Guido's a few weeks ago and sent a few hours listening to the 1500 al - very nice woofer indeed .

I have the benefit of the 3 years we have been working on the idea of this 2 way set up . JBL makes some world class components,but at the end of the day the crossover and the box are just as ,if not more important, than the drive units . I looked a lot at the Westlake designs... in some cases they use Audax and Seas components and make relatively inexpensive parts work very well by paying a lot of attention to the xover and enclosure .

Guido has done a wonderful job of the CC networks. Designed with flexibility in mind , I can use any three of the woofers mentioned and have a good choice of mid-hf units to try with very little alterations of the high pass section - a few changes in values and its done.

Steph ,

the crossover is CC passive . The horn kicks in around 700 htz. As you know my EE skills are very limited .You would be best directing any specific questions to Guido ....

I'm very happy with sound . Much different from the 4345's . I like the horn a lot . There is an even dispersion that I was missing with the 45's . 2435 and the horn really work well . Space and detail without high SPL is what I need now I'm not in a huge open space .

I would like to try a tweeter in the future , but I wont bother unless I use the TAD 703 or 045 be. Besides , that money could go on better front end gear ,and probably will . As I said , I'm very happy with sound of the project and will leave the speaker alone and let it grow on me ....:D

Rich

[timc]

Great that you are happy with the result :)

Yes the price for the 1500Al is out of this world. Maybe i should look for a pair of 2234...hm.....

What do they cost?

[richluvsound]

your looking around 325 euros each .... depending on condition of the basket and exchange rate...

Yep ,I'm very happy with the result . Again , this has been a project between two good friends and that just makes them even sound even better :D

Rich

[richluvsound]

The sound has improved tremendously . I guess it does take time for things to run in . They do Classical really well and have got me listening to stuff I dare not try on the 45's . I'm just waffling .They need to be heard .

Grills are on the bench :)

[richluvsound]

Just want to thank you for the help with the grill dimensions LOL they turned out well !

I can hear why Guido , 4313b and GT think a 2 way is great with a Be up top :)

[badman]

Lovely work on the grille. I would be concerned with it singing along with the tunes, however. I suppose at levels needed to excite its resonances it'd be pretty well masked.

[richluvsound]

Good point !

perhaps I should have described the construction, Sorry .

2 x biaxial cloth - opposed weave - sitting behind 1.5 mm of birch ply and laminated under tension . For only being 3mm thick (1/8 " ) it has incredible strength for such a small section. Its fixed with grill fixings in 4 corners . The whole thing fixed at each corner is under slight tension giving it a little more rigidity.

The first grill shown in black is the template.

Rich

[badman]

Good point !

perhaps I should have described the construction, Sorry .

2 x biaxial cloth - opposed weave - sitting behind 1.5 mm of birch ply and laminated under tension . For only being 3mm thick (1/8 " ) it has incredible strength for such a small section. Its fixed with grill fixings in 4 corners . The whole thing fixed at each corner is under slight tension giving it a little more rigidity.

The first grill shown in black is the template.

Rich

Sheesh, I shoulda guessed. Very impressive sir!

[macaroonie]

WOW Rich you do make some pretty inspired stuff. Fantastic attention to detail. I expect JBL will be offering you a position in their new production engineering workshop in.............. Mexico :eek:

[richluvsound]

Cheers ,

I could live with that Mac..... except ,perhaps the third world renumeration. :applaud:

What wonderful job that would be . Gotta go, Gt's on the phone its probably that mad bloody horn design again, lol

Rich

[richluvsound]

For Seawolf :)

Cheers , Rich

[macaroonie]

Proper job. Showoff !!:)

[Titanium Dome]

WOW Rich you do make some pretty inspired stuff. Fantastic attention to detail. I expect JBL will be offering you a position in their new production engineering workshop in.............. Mexico :eek:

Or flippin' China. Brush up on your Mandarin, brother.

[Robh3606]

Very Nice indeed!

Rob:applaud:

[JBL 4645]

Rich

Wow a true artist’s handy work of craftsmanship dedication and time.:applaud: I think you've outdone yourself this time. Beautiful looking.

How many sheets of MDF did it take to build just one

All they need now is tiny JBL logo attached to them.:)

[richluvsound]

The badge is on the cards. I just want to find the oldest one I can though 50's ,60's

uF

[macaroonie]

I have a couple of little orange ones you can have.

[SEAWOLF97]

For Seawolf :)

Cheers , Rich

why did I ever doubt that you had it under control ???? :applaud::bouncy::applaud::bouncy::applaud:

[JBL 4645]

The badge is on the cards. I just want to find the oldest one I can though 50's ,60's

uF
Rich
I guess it’s down to badge colour design then?

The upper portion has silver like colour and the lower part sandy tanned colour. I think the black and sliver JBL badge logo would look smart on them.

That’s the colour badge I’d go for. The orange colour badge might be a bit bright, that type of badge is suited for black painted JBL boxes, not ones that have an elegant look to them.;)

So, would you locate it middle/centre of the enclosure below the grill, or one of the lower corners, thou I’ve seen some and normally there attached to the middle/centre directly below the grill.

[richluvsound]

Ash,

like this !

uF





http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-JBL-Copper-Badge-restoration-/130440407125?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e5edaa855#ht_500wt_1156

[pos]

Here is a little report on my visit at Rich's place this sunday!

Simply put, his speakers sound as good as they look, and look even better in person than in photo :D
The H9800 gives a great feeling of space and the little 2435 seem to get it all up to the UHF without any sign of stress or aggressiveness. Even placed close to untreated side walls the imaging was quite impressive.
The aquaplassed 2234A integrated seamlessly with the horn. The speakers were placed in corners but no trace of boominess or prominent modes could be heard.
The "banana tuning" certainly plays a great part in this, and the speakers seem to interact very well with the room.
The box construction and dampening was also a beauy to see, much better than stock S9800 for sure. Top class speakers for sure!
I wish I had my CDs with me...

Thanks Rich for this nice listening/discussing session, and great diner! :)

[caladois]

Very interesting. What a good trip ! Is he still with the 2 way version of K2 (2435+2234) ? What about the set up ?

[4313B]

Simply put, his speakers sound as good as they look, and look even better in person than in photo :D:applaud:

[pos]

Very interesting. What a good trip ! Is he still with the 2 way version of K2 (2435+2234) ? What about the set up ?
The speakers where the one presented in this thread: aquaplased 2234A in 130L + aquaplased 2435 on H9800 clones, network from Guido.

The rest of the setup was a CD player, a M2tech young DAC, a bryston preamplifier, and a borrowed class A amp (his passlabs amp was on the surgery table)

[Guido]

These speakers are not "banana tuned".
The 2234a is tuned kind of regular. I don't remember exactly but not "banana"
Room integration is so good because the 2234 integrates better than a 2235 anyway. Giskard also posted about this many times.
The network is also NOT a 9800 clone. Woofer/Horn adaption is modified as (of course) top end of the 2435.
As Master Rich posted it's the result of a looong cooperation.

I'm glad you like it. Stunning craftmanship for sure.

Guess I'm next but the EV2 cabs are currently in veneering process....

Oh, the 2234 is not really aqauplassed. Maybe a bit but not really. A bit less than the 1500AL.

[hwirt]

Rich,

Congratulation on a job well done. Seeing expert craftsmanship such as yours is truly awe inspiring. The pictures and discussion in this thread were a real treat for any audio enthusiast. Hope you enjoy your great speaker creation for many years.

[richluvsound]

Thanks Pos ,

but what exactly is banana tuning ? I was great to see you and even better to find someone to take the time and teach me a few things ... I just used to look at those coloured things and think 'nice colours ' now i actually understand what I'm looking at . Still no idea what to do with that information , but thanks anyway ?

Did your parcel arrive ?

Would be great to get a few things cooking here over the winter to keep us all off the streets ... :D

I'm looking forward to seeing the something just about cooked down in Warzburg . From what I have already seen , the bar has been lifted yet again ... :D

Rich

[Guido]

...but what exactly is banana tuning ? ....

I hope it is ok when I answer. I try to explain it without this B6 etc. terms

The JBL Studio monitors are tuned to a certain frequency around 35Hz and below that frequency the response falls fast. Like a knee. I wouldn't call it "knee tuning" though :)

The modern Systems like the K2-9800 are tuned in a way the response starts to fall earlier (around 80Hz K2-9800) but slower. This creates a banana shaped response. I think G.T. called it "banana tuning"

[richluvsound]

Guido,

I can buy you a drink in a few weeks for that :D Bring cigars :applaud:

Anyway ,back on topic . So the slope starts earlier and slower with room interaction to compensate ?
Whatever , last night I couldn't go to bed because they sounded too good .. I guess thats what really matters . I'm sure some graph could destroy them , but maybe no knowing too much about the theory is the blessing allowing me to just enjoy . !

Rich

[Robh3606]

Anyway ,back on topic . So the slope starts earlier and slower with room interaction to compensate ?


Basicaly all you have to do is low tune the box. If you look at the WINISD plot you can see a 2235 in the same box size. The first is at 34hz and similar to what a stock 4430 is at except the box volume is a bit too small. The second is tuned down to about 25hz. You can clearly see the difference in the curves.

Rob:)

[bubbleboy76]

Nice project!

[LowPhreak]

Nice job on the grille, but IMO it should have been the same color as the horn and end caps. :)

[srm51555]

Outstanding build!!! Was a schematic of the crossover used posted anywhere?