Flat Panel wall loudspeakers

[JBL 4645]

Now this technology has been around for many years and the price was a bit high when they where introduced but as since dropped. I have looked at the specification in this pdf file. http://www.avbristol.co.uk/productmanager/pdf/wharfedale-flatpanel-manual.pdf

I have an idea for surrounds a cluster wall of surround and will this eliminate the sweet spot because with each one placed side by side from ceilings to floor will give a greater uniform sound coverage.

There sensitive is low at 87db but when a cluster is built up over the sidewalls and rear wall the level will increase and all that is needed is to EQ the surrounds to the same frequency response SPL db as single front loudspeaker.

The 40Hz limit for the sub is more than enough for the surround thou sometimes there are lows as low as 25Hz or lower but that rarely comes across.

The size of the panel is greater than x6 control 1 on the width and height.

I think I’ll buy a set and see how this goes for surround channel use.

One thing is to get the clutter of the walls. Hey I’m not replacing the JBL control 1, I just have ideas bouncing around. Also there lightweight!

There are several places to buy in the UK for around £68.00 RRP otherwise would be £199.95.

A pair of JBL control 1 lowest price in the UK is Richer Sounds where I got mine for £49.98 then price bumped up to £59.98 a year or so later.

Impedance 8 Ohms
Power handling 70 Watts
Sensitivity (1W@1M) 87db
Frequency response 160Hz - 20KHz
2 x 25mm Exciter

Dimensions of panel
555mm x 500mm x 27mm
21.8" x 19.7" x 1.1"

[lgvenable]

flat panels are very directional, I've heard Martin Logan's and Magneplanar's; if you're in the sweet spot...nice; if you're not; then..you are out of luck and they dont sound as good. That and they're power hogs; the panels need to run at a differential of 7500V. Bluntly I liked JBL decade series much better for the overall latitude for the "sweet spot". (or anything JBL)

I did dome work in designing a coating for 6 micron pet, which used indium compounds to achieve the proper conductivity level (400 Mohm/cm2) to make large rolls of coated pet for flat panels. The binder was nylon, and the project just kind of died out, Now I do'nt run a facility where I have access to a 24" coating line, so it would be tough to restart that kind of work.

Again, from my research..directional and I wasn't sure it would be a good investment of my personal time.;)

[JBL 4645]

Larry

Maybe I should rephrase the word “sweet spot” to (uniform coverage).:p if I walk around I can hear the sound my JBL control 1 mid range to high range going from directional to vertically dull until I walk past the next surround speaker.

The way they are spaced out cerates a defused defocused sound field that took some juggling around to get the EQ smooth on both sidewalls.

Plus I have gaps between x3 per sidewall and to fill those gaps in would take at least another x16 so do the math on the £$pricing!

"Magneplanar" well unless you want to help me rob a bank dressed up as Darth Vader and me as a, stormtrooper, then I don’t happen to have £1grand underneath my bed for the "Magneplanar".:p

I think I’ll go for the woof, woof, Wharfedale’s. I have just put my, flame suit on.


The little sub looks like a JBL control 5 if you get what I mean the size. I can get a 39Hz tone from the centre channel due to where its placed over the front, I need to place an extra (Low Pass filter over the LCR).

I might try the panel out as HF for the LCR I wouldn’t have to use the active sub with it since the LCR is powered by the DCX2496 own electronic crossover.

[JBL 4645]

To do a solid horizontal array of control 1 along the sidewalls each array set would cost £399.84.

x5 sets of wall panel loudspeakers will take up 95” or just under 8 feet wide for one horizontal array costing £204.00 as they are sold in pairs with x1 sub like speaker. I’d always have 1 extra panel, for the overheard surround array.

Roughly (rule of thumb) saving of £200 pounds!

So around £408.00 to make a surround wall panel size of

109” across
39.4” down

Now look at some of the ridiculous overpriced THX dipolar surrounds costing somewhere around £200 to even £400 depending on manufacture/model type, and all you get is, x2 surround speakers, now then!

A JBL control 1 is only (rule of thumb) 6” wide 9” height depth with bracket attached 8”, do the math! Yeah it would take a bundle!;)

I would need a huge cluster. The whole point of the surround channel is to “surround you”!

There is one part not yet wildly covered and that’s below surround. Now since there are no practical ready film mixes that use “below surround” or “bottom surround” I do listen to what film mixes have and thinking of a few ways to trick the signal of certain effects or frequencies to sound below the seating level.

[hjames]

I've been playing with a pair of used magneplanar MG IIb speakers for the last week.
They seem to be pretty full, except for the low low bass, and the high top end.
They're 2 way systems from the mid 80s, I think ... I've heard they've improved a lot since then,
the newer 3 way models go higher and lower, but this is what I have right now - and it was a budget buy ...

The crazy things are 72 inch tall but really thin. Oddest thing is - its not directional like a horn is - the sound plays from the front as well as the back - I've got them standing in the middle of the room and Emma says its like swimming in the music - music is all around you.

Its a busy crowded room picture, I know, but this gives you a sense of the size of the Planars vs the L200s with horn on top.

I'm using a Carver receiver - maybe 120w/ch into 8 ohms - tons of power for the L200s, but the Planars are 5 ohms, so - the Carver is 140w/ch at 4 ohms - and that seems to be plenty of power - but I'm playing FULL, not stupid-loud, as Zilch would say ... I may bring the Adcom up at some point - 240w/ch at 4ohm, but I don't think its needed with this pair.

Certainly worth playing with a pair if you can find some.

[JBL 4645]

Wow Heather you never cessed to amaze me. How many loudspeakers do you have? No don’t answer that one, I can take a wild guess. :D

Hmm I like those and I can see the an idea now spring up! Place them horizontally attached to the walls around the seating area so that you have “no” gaps between the left and right stereo surround. Sorted!

Yeah I can see the scale of size! They are a bit wider than the wall panel ones and taller as well! Then again there’s the mounting panel that attaches to the rear of the panel loudspeaker so not easy to attach to wall unless you beat in the plasterboard so that mounting panel slots into the wall, thus making it flat against the wall!

I’m not looking around on eBay not after what happened to that poor buggers JBL crushed by elephant postal services.:eek:

You need an SPL db meter to confirm the level guessing you be miles off.

How do you know you’re using all the power up since the amp doesn’t have barograph level display?

I’m, playing Madonna this evening “Immaculate Collection” and the barograph on the Alesis RA300 isn’t even flicking at -19db on the AVR.

Average SPL is 65 to 70dbc at seating area and that’s with a tiny amount of sub bass extension, plus its playing in Dolby Pro-LogicII Music mode which I hardly ever use.

So what’s the frequency response sensitivity to power handling, a pdf file specification if one exists?

I know what she means by swimming in “the sound of music” I know and I don’t need to hear it I can picture the sound in my mind.:)

Is that you’re thinking “think tank” reading room? It’s very green.:D You have a lot of things that need feeding! One cat and lots and lots plants and fish!

[hjames]

Hmm I like those and I can see the an idea now spring up! Place them horizontally attached to the walls around the seating area so that you have “no” gaps between the left and right stereo surround. Sorted!

Yeah I can see the scale of size! They are a bit wider than the wall panel ones and taller as well! Then again there’s the mounting panel that attaches to the rear of the panel loudspeaker so not easy to attach to wall unless you beat in the plasterboard so that mounting panel slots into the wall, thus making it flat against the wall!

Well, if you mount them flat to the wall you'd block the sound radiating from the back of the panel - you'd loose the 3d sound effect. You want them a couple foot out from the wall, and about the same from the side walls ... Really - with a lot of music, its a very live soundstage as if the artist is right there in the room ...
Playing Mark Knopfler's Get Lucky CD right now - very nice recording and sounds great!

[JBL 4645]

I thought they directional like Larry said. I’d say they look very rare considering the amount of Hi-Fi enthusiasts around on the forums. I wouldn’t have any idea open space in the living room for those! I’d have to keep moving them around!

I seem to recall mucking around with one of those piezo speakers years ago with LFE.1 inputted into it! I could feel the lows when holding it I can feel it buzz. I didn’t place a lot of power into in fact very low level power, I didn’t want it to burst into flames.:D

I’ll keep this updated if I don’t get distracted next week I’ll order one wall panel set for a test, to see if I want to continue with the project.

Oh, yeah what’s there maximum SPL db at 1meter?

[JBL 4645]

Oh, so you do have an SPL db meter. It’s like looking for needle in haystack in that room. Now where’s the RTA hiding too?:D

[mikebake]

I had some Magnepans just about like those, and spent years with them. They have limited dynamic range and compression issues, but they can be quite enjoyable. Their power response characteristics meant that they could put sound into adjacent rooms for background-ish, clean-the-house-mode listening better than other speakers.
I used to play them out on a wood sundeck with some boundary reinforcement, and the sounded quite good outside. Finally after landing in JBL world I decided I should sell them; some guy drive from Iowa to pick them up. I'd like to hear some new ones to see what improvements have been made.

[Hoerninger]

Heather, I enjoyed reading your posting. :)


the sound plays from the front as well as the back
- and Emma says its like swimming in the music - music is all around you.

How do you like the "free-of-boxiness"(?) reproduction of bass?
I like it from an open baffle even more than from a (good) bass horn, which scores in authoritative bass strength (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?11909-Paragon-XXL&p=121158&viewfull=1#post121158).

Did you ever hear the soundstage from a Paragon sound reflector? It has spatiality and precise localisation over the (relativ narrow) reflector. I've tried it the first time with two bookshelf speakers and a thin board. :thmbsup: I think the room has to be wide.
____________
Peter

[JBL 4645]

I had some Magnepans just about like those, and spent years with them. They have limited dynamic range and compression issues, but they can be quite enjoyable. Their power response characteristics meant that they could put sound into adjacent rooms for background-ish, clean-the-house-mode listening better than other speakers.
I used to play them out on a wood sundeck with some boundary reinforcement, and the sounded quite good outside. Finally after landing in JBL world I decided I should sell them; some guy drive from Iowa to pick them up. I'd like to hear some new ones to see what improvements have been made.

Improvements you say? I was thinking late of last night what if they where placed in an enclosure like box what effects would that have on the frequency response to SPL db level?

Will it increase the SPL db level by so many db extra or would it remain the same as I have never heard these flat panel loudspeakers before. I can guess what they sound like and that’s all until I have one to listen too.

[JBL 4645]

Heather, I enjoyed reading your posting. :)

How do you like the "free-of-boxiness"(?) reproduction of bass?
I like it from an open baffle even more than from a (good) bass horn, which scores in authoritative bass strength (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?11909-Paragon-XXL&p=121158&viewfull=1#post121158).

Did you ever hear the soundstage from a Paragon sound reflector? It has spatiality and precise localisation over the (relativ narrow) reflector. I've tried it the first time with two bookshelf speakers and a thin board. :thmbsup: I think the room has to be wide.
____________
Peter

Reading your post you hit me! No not physically just mentally with an idea!

What if they where placed in flat baffle wall surface with ported hole to vent some parts of the lows or it can be plugged up ether way.

I see a delightfully way of curiosity for experimentation.