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dkalsi
08-02-2010, 10:03 AM
I have an opportunity to purchase a pair of brand new Truextent Beryllium Diaphragm - 16 ohm for approximately $1050 (approximately $150 from current list price).

I will be using these in a pair of JBL 2441 drivers I currently have. As you all know, I am in the process of constructing a JBL 4345 studio monitor. In my JBL 4345 build, I was going to use the JBL 2441 driver with Westlake like JBL 2397 clones. I was going to lay the 2441+2397 on top of the speaker (as oppose to installing it in the cabinet).

I was hoping that someone here can share their opinion on the likelihood of anyone being able to tell a sonic improvement if I went with the Truextent Beryllim Diaphragms. I know the beryliium will allow the 2441 to extend higher - but because I am using them in conjunction with the 2405 tweeter - I not sure whether the Truextent is justified? Just an FYI - I will be using June 2010 revision of the 3455 networks Giskard published last week - so I'm assuming the 2441 will be used from 1,200hz to 10,000hz?

Thanks,
-D

scott fitlin
08-02-2010, 10:19 AM
First thing to do is begin searching, and reading, and asking questions. The simple answer to your question is YES, the difference between Beryllium and other metal diaphragm materials is QUITE audible.

Read this thread I linked thoroughly, it contains many questions and answers as well as sonic description of Truextent diaphragms sound.


>>>> http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?28034-Geez-who-the-hell-needs-TAD&highlight=Truextent <<<<

:D

Earl K
08-02-2010, 10:31 AM
"D"

- I don't have any beryllium diaphragms here ( so take that into consideration ) / but everyone whose ears I have learned to trust over the years has reported that this type of metal diaphragm offers a audible increase in detail & resolution .

- Bo put in TAD 2002s into his stock 4345s some years back and I'm guite sure he won't be returning his 4345s to stock form . Personally, I may have thought that some other factors ( in the boxes design ) would have made the swap a moot point ( ie; the limitations of the 2308 lens ) but that's not the case according to Widget ( who I don't think has any love for that lens ) .

- Anyways , the price you're being offered the Truextents at , means you're not likely to lose much ( if any ) money if you decide to resell them at some point in the future .

<> cheers EarlK

BTW; 4313Bs tests ( if I remember correctly ) actually showed that the Truextent replacements had a bit less HF extension than the stock diaphragms .

grumpy
08-02-2010, 10:32 AM
As you're building the network regardless... might there be someone local who can loan
you a pair to determine the performance vs. value yourself? Is there a time limit on the
price/offer?

I've not heard them through 2397s, but through more "open" horns the difference was
quite worthwhile for me.

I don't recall the measurements of the Be dia showing an increase
in high frequency level vs. Ti... but the "resolution", "transparency", "apparent
lack of distortion" or some similar descriptive quality do seem quite improved.

dkalsi
08-02-2010, 11:32 AM
Read this thread I linked thoroughly, it contains many questions and answers as well as sonic description of Truextent diaphragms sound.

:D


Thanks Scott - Just got done reading the thread you posted. It's pretty obvious, that when considering price/performance - the JBL+Truextent combo is hard to beat.

Everyone seems to be happy with them. My personal concern was - that I am building JBL 4345 that is not really a 4345 since I am using JBL 2397 horn and JBL 2441 drivers for the Mid-Hi section, and JBL 4355 equivalent networks - Not sure if I should be working on other points before I decide to drop $1030 for pair of Truextent diaphragms.

I guess it is too late now (- I just forced myself to buy them - will now need to sell other gear). I figured I spent money to have brand new factory recones on my JBL 2245H and 2122H - might as well bite the bullet and purchase the Truextent. I know that the JBL 2441 I owned were mounted in a movie theater in Maine for their entire life - so I'm sure the diaphragms have had some good use on them (unless the were changed over the years).

scott fitlin
08-02-2010, 11:51 AM
Your welcome. BTW, I, too, am considering Truextent diaphragms for my 2441 drivers. And, not only that, I own six TAD 4002 drivers, so I KNOW Be sounds different than other 'phragm materials. With my TAD drivers, the increase in micro detail and really low level hidden sounds in recordings is VERY AUDIBLE! From what I have been able to piece together in reading and speaking with others that are using the Truextents, is that these Be diaphragms IN JBL motors sound very detailed, but still sweet, whereas the TAD comp drivers lacked the sweetness.

So, you and I are sort of in similar boats. I am using 2395 lens horns, you are using 2397 horns. I know the 2397 very well, too.

dkalsi
08-02-2010, 12:31 PM
So, you and I are sort of in similar boats.

I will let you know how it all works out. The one thing I hate about myself is that sometimes (actually too many times) - when I spend money - I force myself to perceive a difference, whether I hear it or not. I do this because I want to justify spending that money.

But I promise to report back my honest opinion - so others can get a better understanding before they commit to spending that type of money.

In any case - is there a lot involved in installing these? The instructions seem pretty straight forward.
I know I will have a ton of trouble opening the cap to access the diaphragms. I remember trying to open it a while back because I wanted to see whether my JBL 2441 have AL diaphragms or TI diaphrams - but could not get it open. I didn't want to hit the driver (like insert a blade) with anything because I feared damage/demagnetizing .

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could open the back end of the driver? - again, I think it is only sticking because it may have never been opened.

scott fitlin
08-02-2010, 12:46 PM
It is pretty straight forward to take the back cover off, take the diaphragm out, and install the new one. BUT careful is what you must be. The use of a non magnetic screwdriver is advisable as the magnet is strong and you will feel the magnet PULL the screwdriver towards it. And THIS IS WHERE YOU GOTTA BE CAREFUL! You don't want the screwdriver and the dome to meet, and it CAN happen.

If the back cover doesn't want to come off, after you take the screws out, just use a thin flat screwdriver blade to gently pry it apart.

About forcing yourself to "perceive" differences, I don't think you will have to in this case, YOU WILL HEAR REAL DIFFERENCES! And please do tell us of your listening impressions.

Slightly off topic, and yet still on topic, as I was hitting the "Submit Reply" on my last post, UPS walked in with a box from TAD containing SIX TAD ET-703 tweeters with Be diaphragms and Samarium Cobalt magnets. I will tell you how these sound too. Beryllium in the VHF range!

4313B
08-02-2010, 01:50 PM
I have an opportunity to purchase a pair of brand new Truextent Beryllium Diaphragm - 16 ohm for approximately $1050 (approximately $150 from current list price).I guess I didn't realize they were that cheap. The 3-inch beryllium diaphragms are $1,600 from JBL.

Good to know in case I ever blow some phragms in my 476Be's... I should probably just go ahead and buy a spare pair now before they increase in price. :dont-know:

dkalsi
08-02-2010, 01:57 PM
If the back cover doesn't want to come off, just use a flat screwdriver blade to gently pry it apart.


Sounds good - I will give that a try and let you know if it works. I was thinking of using a putty knife. I'll gently try to tap it in.

Thanks,
"D" -for Dhar

dkalsi
08-02-2010, 01:59 PM
I guess I didn't realize they were that cheap. The 3-inch beryllium diaphragms are $1,600 from JBL.

Good to know in case I ever blow some phragms in my 476Be's... I should probably just go ahead and buy a spare pair now before they increase in price. :dont-know:

Giskard,

I saw that OCS was selling them for $1,200 a pair. I had a 15% coupon (one or two day coupon) - that brought my cost down to $1,020 + $12 shipping = $1,032).

Thanks,
D

JeffW
08-02-2010, 02:30 PM
I wondered if that was where you got the pricing, I got the same email today.

dkalsi
08-02-2010, 03:37 PM
I wondered if that was where you got the pricing, I got the same email today.

Yeah - I figured I didn't want to think too long and waste the opportunity to save $180 bucks.

toddalin
08-02-2010, 03:46 PM
I will let you know how it all works out. The one thing I hate about myself is that sometimes (actually too many times) - when I spend money - I force myself to perceive a difference, whether I hear it or not. I do this because I want to justify spending that money.

But I promise to report back my honest opinion - so others can get a better understanding before they commit to spending that type of money.




Do one at a time so that you can do instantaneous A/B comparisons. Also, if you encounter a problem, you've only screwed up one rather than two, not that you will.

In addition to using a non-magnetic screwdriver, be VERY CAREFUL of the spade lugs. THESE ARE FERROUS AND WILL BE DRAWN TO THE DOME MAKING A NICE DOUBLE DENT IF YOU LET THEM GO!

dkalsi
08-02-2010, 05:25 PM
Do one at a time so that you can do instantaneous A/B comparisons. Also, if you encounter a problem, you've only screwed up one rather than two, not that you will.

In addition to using a non-magnetic screwdriver, be VERY CAREFUL of the spade lugs. THESE ARE FERROUS AND WILL BE DRAWN TO THE DOME MAKING A NICE DOUBLE DENT IF YOU LET THEM GO!

Thanks for the head-up Tod. I'll definitely do an A/B test as I have two pairs of 2441. One of the two pairs I own definitely has Aluminum Diaphragms (because I checked) while the second set I am not too sure about as I was not able to open them. I will be installing the Truextent in the latter pair. This way I can do and A/B test. I don't have any testing gear - so A/B testing will be based on what I hear.

dkalsi
08-02-2010, 09:35 PM
If the back cover doesn't want to come off, after you take the screws out, just use a thin flat screwdriver blade to gently pry it apart.


Scott,

Worked like a charm - and yes, it is confirmed, that this pair has the Ti-diaphragms. I will be replacing these with Truextents - Not sure if I should do this by myself. I just want to make sure all this is done perfectly. Anyone in the Washington DC area willing to help? I don't want to screw around with 1200 diaphragms.

Has a tutorial on changing diaphragms ever been posed here (I tired doing a quick search but had little luck)?

Additionally, anyone know where I can source new foam for these drivers? I was thinking about THIS (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?26757-foam-or-felt-in-the-cover&p=269260&viewfull=1#post269260) or THIS (http://www.mcmaster.com/#f13-felt/=88k8wm)

Thanks,
D

pos
08-02-2010, 11:43 PM
Have you compared your two drivers?
Al is much more prone to fatigue than Ti, so if they come from a theater the Al diaphragmes should not be up to spec anymore...
I'd compare the Be diaphragme to the Ti one.

1audiohack
08-03-2010, 07:52 AM
Scott,



Additionally, anyone know where I can source new foam for these drivers? I was thinking about THIS (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?26757-foam-or-felt-in-the-cover&p=269260&viewfull=1#post269260) or THIS (http://www.mcmaster.com/#f13-felt/=88k8wm)

Thanks,
D

JBL. The original damper pads are still available. I just bought six of them. I don't know why you would use something else?
OCS should be able to send you some.

grumpy
08-03-2010, 08:44 AM
... because they're foam, and eventually turn to goo. :) (albeit, this is normally many years)
Nice to know the originals are still available for those that want to go that way.

Mr. Widget
08-03-2010, 09:19 AM
... because they're foam, and eventually turn to goo. :) (albeit, this is normally many years).I expect I'll turn to goo just about the time my current speakers do... not to worry.


Widget

spkrman57
08-03-2010, 09:59 AM
I was hoping that someone here can share their opinion on the likelihood of anyone being able to tell a sonic improvement if I went with the Truextent Beryllim Diaphragms.

I not sure whether the Truextent is justified?
Thanks,
-D

I have them in my JBL 2446 compression drivers and they do not sound like a horn at all!:)

I can't say for sure that they do/don't reproduce the HF notes much higher, but it's more of the smoothness that I like them for!;)

Regards, Ron

PS: I'm using them on 350hz Edgar round tractix horns in my avatar. :D

grumpy
08-03-2010, 10:40 AM
I expect I'll turn to goo just about the time my current speakers do... not to worry.

:D Hopefully, also in many... many years.


I wish I was closer, Ron... It'd be cool to hear what you've done.

spkrman57
08-03-2010, 11:07 AM
:D I wish I was closer, Ron... It'd be cool to hear what you've done.

My horns were one of those tested by 4313B on the Truextent thread.

I have a hard time listening to any other compression driver/diaphrams anymore!

If you ever visit Ohio you are more than welcome to see and hear the system.

Regards, Ron

scott fitlin
08-03-2010, 12:10 PM
I have them in my JBL 2446 compression drivers and they do not sound like a horn at all!:)

I can't say for sure that they do/don't reproduce the HF notes much higher, but it's more of the smoothness that I like them for!;)

Implemented properly, THIS is what all the fuss is about. COMPRESSION DRIVERS and HORNS with the dynamics and efficiency they are famous for, without the honk and screech, and characteristic HORNY tonality.

spkrman57
08-03-2010, 03:43 PM
Implemented properly, THIS is what all the fuss is about. COMPRESSION DRIVERS and HORNS with the dynamics and efficiency they are famous for, without the honk and screech, and characteristic HORNY tonality.

Thanks for wording it to make sense!!!;)

Regards, Ron

dkalsi
08-03-2010, 05:17 PM
[QUOTE=spkrman57;292557

If you ever visit Ohio you are more than welcome to see and hear the system.

Regards, Ron[/QUOTE]


Ron,

You are too kind - unfortunately, I will not be in the Ohio area any time soon. But I did take your word and have ordered a pair (due to arrive Friday :D).

Thanks,
D

scott fitlin
08-04-2010, 03:37 AM
Thanks for wording it to make sense!!!;)

Regards, RonThanks Ron. :)


Ron,

You are too kind - unfortunately, I will not be in the Ohio area any time soon. But I did take your word and have ordered a pair (due to arrive Friday :D).

Thanks,
DAnd even though you won't be in the Ohio area to hear Rons system, and since we all are really interested in your listening impressions too, WE want to hear, IN DETAIL, what you hear and what you think of the Truextrent Be diaphragms.

I, myself, have decided to go down the path of Truextent and am ordering six diaphragms for my own drivers. If you were closer, I would have come over, and walked you through changing the diaphragms myself. It isn't complicated, but it requires you to be careful.

In particular, since your using 2441 bodies, and have ones with aluminum phragms, like I use too, I really am interested in your direct A/B comparison descriptions.

:D

4313B
08-04-2010, 07:47 AM
I'm not real sure how well a 4355 network works with a 2397/2441. I think Mr. Widget tried it years ago and ended up bagging it.

WE want to hear, IN DETAIL, what you hear and what you think of the Truextrent Be diaphragms

We do? :blink: Seriously though, one can't go wrong with the beryllium diaphragms. If someone has a problem with them that problem can be summed up in two words - user error.

scott fitlin
08-04-2010, 09:31 AM
I'm not real sure how well a 4355 network works with a 2397/2441. I think Mr. Widget tried it years ago and ended up bagging it.

WE want to hear, IN DETAIL, what you hear and what you think of the Truextrent Be diaphragms

We do? :blink: Seriously though, one can't go wrong with the beryllium diaphragms. If someone has a problem with them that problem can be summed up in two words - user error.I'll REPHRASE! I DO.

SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC, BUT, You know what, I gave two of my new TAD ET-703 tweeters a rough listen last evening, and am installing them properly tonight. These have Samarium Cobalt magnets and Be diaphragms, and these have to be the smoothest and most extended tweeters I have ever heard. And TAD,s "FIT AND FINISH" is second to NOTHING! The machining of the horn flare and pot, and the construction are so first class! I also like that the TAD 703 is all machined metal, no plastic or fiberglass or ABS resin products to crack, like the 2404,s, even though they do sound good. And yet, I don't care for my TAD 4002 with Be and Neo magnets. It isn't user error, I just don't love them, but, they are resolving to the utmost. OTOH, I have heard the TAD 4001 with it's Alnico magnet, and those I like alot more. So, I know what beryllium does. And I also know, and firmly believe the magnet also plays a part in tone.

It's all good. And I want to hear what "D" has to say! :D

dkalsi
08-04-2010, 10:39 AM
I'm not real sure how well a 4355 network works with a 2397/2441. I think Mr. Widget tried it years ago and ended up bagging it.

Seriously though, one can't go wrong with the beryllium diaphragms. If someone has a problem with them that problem can be summed up in two words - user error.

Oh man - I sure hope the 2397/2441 combo sounds nice. The only reason why I had that in mind when I started the project was because I read a thread called: "what's your favorite JBL" (driver? horn? <-can't remember now) <-- and there were so many forum members who mentioned that the 2441/2397 was a killer combo. I guess I have to see how it will sound with the 4355 networks though - that is more important.

And yes - I agree that in the event I don't hear a significant improvement with the Truextents, it will more than likely be user error.

Dhar

scott fitlin
08-04-2010, 11:43 AM
You could also look into reworking and tuning the 4355 networks MF section specifically for the 2397/2441?

ONLY everyone that uses this horn, loves them. So, I think IF you like this horn & driver combo, it would be worth it to do.

dkalsi
08-04-2010, 12:37 PM
You could also look into reworking and tuning the 4355 networks MF section specifically for the 2397/2441?

ONLY everyone that uses this horn, loves them. So, I think IF you like this horn & driver combo, it would be worth it to do.

Scott - if only I had the know-how my friend.
I unfortunately don't know anything about network design. At this point - I'll be happy with it even if it sounds "just OK". I've been drying to complete this speakers for a while.

scott fitlin
08-04-2010, 12:51 PM
Scott - if only I had the know-how my friend.
I unfortunately don't know anything about network design. At this point - I'll be happy with it even if it sounds "just OK". I've been drying to complete this speakers for a while.I hear that. Of course, you could ask questions here, there are people VERY skilled at this very thing.

I can tell you that many people came to this forum with little if any know how about DIY, and HOW TO, and found out HOW TO and also that with guidance they could do it. And, search the forums TECHNICAL HELP and DIY sections, there is tons of information on crossover networks, and reworking them for specific drivers, and horns, etc!

I mean, you have gone this far, your putting together a JBL speaker system, with some expensive components, and you can, if you want to, find out how to do it right! And the more you do, the more you learn, and so on.....

cooky1257
08-10-2010, 09:41 AM
Behringer have been appointed Euro distributors and are pricing the 4" at only €500 each inc shipping with factory fitting @€49 per driver..

louped garouv
08-10-2010, 09:52 AM
Behringer have been appointed Euro distributors and are pricing the 4" at only €500 each inc shipping with factory fitting @€49 per driver..

looks like:
500 Euros = 654.70 USD

so, not too much more than stateside folks are paying...
:)
not too bad.....

behringer certainly has the resources/distro....

pos
08-10-2010, 10:10 AM
Behringer have been appointed Euro distributors and are pricing the 4" at only €500 each inc shipping with factory fitting @€49 per driver..
Nope that is not Behringer, but Behringer-electric :
http://www.behringer-electric.de/

This is actually our friend Guido! :bouncy:

cooky1257
08-10-2010, 10:15 AM
Ah, even better then;-)

pos
08-10-2010, 10:18 AM
http://www.behringer-electric.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86&Itemid=101
:)

louped garouv
08-10-2010, 10:40 AM
Ah, even better then;-)


i was wondering about that!

congrats Guido,
best wishes for continued success in your ventures

cosmos
08-10-2010, 10:41 AM
Having done conversions of 2441and 2445 from stock diaphragms to the Truextent Be diaphragm, I'd say that you will, without question, notice a significant improvement with the Be. Without question. I run them myself.

scott fitlin
08-10-2010, 10:51 AM
GOOD for our friend Guido. He was one of the first, IIRC, to begin asking if there were any beryllium diaphragms available for use in JBL drivers. And now they are available for any and all as wanted.

I spoke with Eric Sunda at OCS, and Gordon Simmons at Brush Wellman and I am going the 'Be' route as well. I enjoyed speaking with Gordon, and let me tell you, I have complete faith in the Brush Wellman Truextent product, between the people here who have said nothing but great things of them, and speaking with a Brush Wellman representative as well as knowing what Be sounds like to begin with, this, IMO is going to be a great upgrade. Gordon Simmons responded to my inquiry quickly, and was helpful and full of answers, and has a great upbeat attitude and seems genuinely interested in WHO is using their product, and they want to know how I like it, and how it holds up! One thing Gordon said, is that because they use a Polymer surround, the diaphragms don't deteriorate sonically over the course of their lifetime like the stamped metal surrounds on the JBL does.

And, for those of you that want Truextent beryllium diaphragms for your ALTEC drivers, THAT is going to happen, too!

An American manufacturer making premium replacement parts for our JBL and ALTEC products, well made and offering them at a reasonable cost compared to other brands available, I support this wholeheartedly!




:applaud:

louped garouv
08-10-2010, 12:44 PM
I liked the limited interactions I have had with folks regarding this product line also...

additionally, I think it was good that they didn't go all "snake-oil salesman" in their product anouncements as well....

:applaud:

hopefully this venture works out well, longterm, for all parties involved --
from manufacturer to end-user.

RedCoat23
08-10-2010, 08:45 PM
Do you think we'll ever see them making replacement diaphragms for the ring radiator tweeters?

I believe Scotty just bought some TAD ET-703 with their extended high frequency response - forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong but aren't those beryllium diaphragms?

Would they not be a great aspirational upgrade to the venerable 2405 if we could stick some extended frequency diaphragms in those?

scott fitlin
08-10-2010, 11:54 PM
Do you think we'll ever see them making replacement diaphragms for the ring radiator tweeters?

I believe Scotty just bought some TAD ET-703 with their extended high frequency response - forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong but aren't those beryllium diaphragms?

Would they not be a great aspirational upgrade to the venerable 2405 if we could stick some extended frequency diaphragms in those?I think that Brush Wellman could do replacement beryllium diaphragms for tweeters, but I can't say they would! I think it all depends on whether or not they see enough of a market to do. In my phone conversation with Gordon Simmons, he asked me IF I thought there is a market for beryllium replacement diaphragms fort ALTEC drivers. The smaller compression drivers as well. I told yes I do think they will sell, maybe not as high volume sales as the JBL replacement parts, but people are always asking if there will be premium beryllium available for their ALTEC drivers, so I say yes there is a market. What I would suggest IF you guys really want BE for your JBL tweeters, is to get enough guys to contact both Brush Wellman and OCS with your wants. Maybe if enough people express interest and desire they will look into doing it. BUT IF THEY WERE TO DO IT, then you got to buy them if you committed to doing so. The ULTIMATE JBL tweeter? Could be!

Yes I purchased six TAD ET-703 tweeters, they feature a beryllium diaphragm and a samarium cobalt magnet. I have not installed them yet, but they will be up within a weeks time. Man, these things are SO WELL MADE, they are simply gorgeous to look at, the horn flare is so precisely machined, even the miniaturized phase plug is a work of art, which BTW happens to look like a sub miniature version of the JBL 2404 cone shaped phase plug. I gave two of them a rough listen last week, just had to, :dont-know::D, anyone could understand this! So what did I hear? Tweeters that have the highest extension I have ever heard IN MY SYSTEM. Straight out of the box, NO GRITTINESS, NO HASH And they are capable of the highest resolving power, and the most delicate and detailed sound, BUT they are also resolving to the point of showing you your systems electronics and the quality of your source material. I played something with a well recorded violin, and man the sound just soars, way up there.

They come very nicely packaged, the mounting clamp is included, they are a pleasure to just hold and look at. But set up and what you use in your system is important. No half way here, PROPER AMP, proper top notch crossover and xover point. They are GREAT, and I am getting new amps for both my horns and all my tweeters. Halo by Parasound amplifiers are what I'm doing. The one downside, they cost a fortune, but, even I have to say, I got what I paid for and more. What I am in the process of acquiring and already have, is basically the upgrades for NEXT season.

I also went to the TAD 1601b, up from the TAD 1603, x 12 woofers! Again, NEW amplification will be done. And to complete, Truextent Beryllium diaphragms for my JBL 2441J compression drivers, powered by a Parasound HALO AC 21. I know this is going to Be the Best incarnation of my system yet.



Tomorrow morning I will take a few pics of an ET-703, and post them in a new thread for those that want to see them. Next week, I will post pics of them mounted on my stacks. They are so sexy, simply gorgeous little machined chunks of treasure, AUDIOPHILES TREASURE!

Me? I am all for it, but it does become costly. But, anyone that does these things will hear the REAL DEAL, IMHO!

Guido
08-11-2010, 12:48 AM
Thank you for the good wishes!

For the price these Be diaphragms sell it is a no brainer.
If you can collect the money, buy a pair. It really IS worth it.

Here in Europe a D16R2441 is 350 euros and a Truextent Be4016 is 500 Euros....
Think yourself. :blink:



i was wondering about that!

congrats Guido,
best wishes for continued success in your ventures

4313B
08-11-2010, 04:51 AM
Thank you for the good wishes!

For the price these Be diaphragms sell it is a no brainer.
If you can collect the money, buy a pair. It really IS worth it.

Here in Europe a D16R2441 is 350 euros and a Truextent Be4016 is 500 Euros....
Think yourself. :blink:And to think that they used to cry and whine about the price of aluminum diaphragms. :rolleyes:

One thing Gordon said, is that because they use a Polymer surround, the diaphragms don't deteriorate sonically over the course of their lifetime like the stamped metal surrounds on the JBL does.
Yeah, I think there has been a "falling out". Both Greg and Jerry are just fine with the JBL diaphragms. Installed for SR use I can see why you might be concerned though. Aluminum was the same way and needed replacing regularly. That's why there is titanium. ;)

BTW; 4313Bs tests ( if I remember correctly ) actually showed that the Truextent replacements had a bit less HF extension than the stock diaphragms .Yes, but I still wouldn't hesitate to use them in a good two-way system. They're priced very friendly.

Guido
08-11-2010, 05:10 AM
And to think that they used to cry and whine about the price of aluminum diaphragms. :rolleyes:

OK, I forgot about this ;)

4313B
08-11-2010, 07:14 AM
OK, I forgot about this ;)JBL can't afford them either, hence the 476Mg. ;) I could live with a 476Mg... of course these Truextents in a 2451 or 2452H-SL core kind of make that pointless. I'm thinking that JBL shouldn't have turned down Brush Wellman's offer to sell the Be diaphragms. I suspect that JBL's decision making process has kind of broken down lately.

Equally exciting though is the prospect of 1.75" Be diaphragms for the JBL 1" throat cores. What a potentially fantastic upgrade for a 4430/4435.

scott fitlin
08-11-2010, 10:03 AM
And to think that they used to cry and whine about the price of aluminum diaphragms. :rolleyes:
Yeah, I think there has been a "falling out". Both Greg and Jerry are just fine with the JBL diaphragms. Installed for SR use I can see why you might be concerned though. Aluminum was the same way and needed replacing regularly. That's why there is titanium. ;)IF one likes the sound of titanium, which I have other materials I like better.
Yes, but I still wouldn't hesitate to use them in a good two-way system. They're priced very friendly.Aluminum also does NOT have the best HF extension, and the Truextents response can actually work for me, like the Al did, because I have a tweeter to go the rest of the way up. I agree 100%, Truextent is priced reasonably. I also know, FROM EXPERIENCE, not to allow PRICELUST to enter into my decision making process. Just because any particular product or brand is the most expensive in it's category never guarantees it is actually the best, OR that I will like it. You know this, too, and I found out, like everyone else finds out, THE HARD WAY!

timc
08-13-2010, 10:12 AM
As have been pointed out time and again. Application and design has way more impact than the price.

Luckily I would say :)

To get to the absolute performance top, it is very exspensive regardless. Too bad the 476Mg is not avaiable to buy :(


-Tim

pos
09-06-2010, 04:19 PM
Do you think we'll ever see them making replacement diaphragms for the ring radiator tweeters?

I believe Scotty just bought some TAD ET-703 with their extended high frequency response - forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong but aren't those beryllium diaphragms?

Would they not be a great aspirational upgrade to the venerable 2405 if we could stick some extended frequency diaphragms in those?
I have been rethinking about this message lately, and I think it really makes sense...
These ring radiators diaphragms could really benefit from beryllium, and there is clearly a market for this, maybe even more than for 1.75" diaphragms. For example it looks like there is more aftermarket 2405 diaphragms than aftermarket 2425 diaphragms on ebay, so there must be a market.
The same diaphragm could fit 2402, 2403, 2404, 2405 drivers, plus their consumer versions.

What do you think?