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hlaari
07-04-2010, 02:37 PM
Can someone tell me how much pair of JBL 476be and 435be cost.
I am going to replace my JBL 2435hpl drivers for Be drivers.







regards
Ari

HCSGuy
07-04-2010, 03:00 PM
Ari,
The 2435hpl already uses a Be diaphragm. 2431 is the same driver with an aluminum diaphragm. 435be is a 2435 with the Be diaphragm coated with aquaplas and a different back cover. 476 is the 4" diaphragm version. I would pursue finding a LH member who can aquaplas your existing diaphragm. 435be's show up on ebay periodically used, selling for around $700/pr, but with questionable heritage. I don't remember seeing a legit pair sell. JBL no longer sells parts directly, so it's going to be really tough to find a pair of 476's, but I'd guess $5k might get you a pair from some collector in Japan.

hlaari
07-04-2010, 03:41 PM
Ari,
The 2435hpl already uses a Be diaphragm. 2431 is the same driver with an aluminum diaphragm. 435be is a 2435 with the Be diaphragm coated with aquaplas and a different back cover. 476 is the 4" diaphragm version. I would pursue finding a LH member who can aquaplas your existing diaphragm. 435be's show up on ebay periodically used, selling for around $700/pr, but with questionable heritage. I don't remember seeing a legit pair sell. JBL no longer sells parts directly, so it's going to be really tough to find a pair of 476's, but I'd guess $5k might get you a pair from some collector in Japan.


Sorry I forgot to put aquaplas in my note. I put offer on a pair of JBL 435AL on ebay in last month, but I did not vin. I thik the price end in $630 for the pair.
I was going to buy them an put be aquaplas diaphragm in them.
I live in Iceland, but I think at I can buy those drivers like parts from JBL audio service here in Iceland. I ask them about the price of JBL 435be diaphragm and a pair cost around $1600.

I think at I am the only member from Iceland on the forum:)



thanks
Ari

speakerdave
07-04-2010, 05:21 PM
. . . I think at I am the only member from Iceland on the forum:)
thanks
Ari

Well, that would mean about the same proportion of the population there as here are members. A couple of members have applied aquaplas to these diapragms in the past. You might be able to find them by reading old threads. OR, perhaps they will chime in here, but remember, July 4th is a national holiday here, and although these forums are at times a place to see fireworks, today most Americans, even including our members, are probably looking to see them in the sky.

Ian Mackenzie
07-04-2010, 08:11 PM
A couple of members have applied aquaplas to these diapragms in the past. .

Like on a record turntable platter. (if you can find one!)

I watched Rich (in the UK) do this. I think he applied two coats.

richluvsound
07-05-2010, 12:49 AM
Thanks Ian,

the trick is not to over do it !2 coats is correct. The first coat is just enough to cover the diaphram evenly , the second coat should be just enough to cover any area of diaphram not covered by the first. Thin and even , we practiced on the base of a coke can . I have seen some here that have been too thickly applied . 1 db not 10 db damping is what your after !

4313B
07-05-2010, 05:16 AM
Can someone tell me how much pair of JBL 476be and 435be cost.The 435Be are ~ $1,800 a pair and the 476Be are ~ $6,000 a pair. The 435Be are available from Harman Consumer Group and the 476Be are available from Crown (with an Everest II serial number, therefore essentially unobtainable).

Technically the 435Be is no longer used in any current production system.

Arguably you would do better to simply put some Truextent Be diaphragms in some newer JBL 4-inch compression drivers and call it done.

hlaari
07-05-2010, 12:59 PM
The 435Be are ~ $1,800 a pair and the 476Be are ~ $6,000 a pair. The 435Be are available from Harman Consumer Group and the 476Be are available from Crown (with an Everest II serial number, therefore essentially unobtainable).

Technically the 435Be is no longer used in any current production system.

Arguably you would do better to simply put some Truextent Be diaphragms in some newer JBL 4-inch compression drivers and call it done.


Can I get Be aquaplas diaphragm for JBL 2450SL or 2451SL drivers!
I think they have 82,5mm bolt circle like JBL 2435hpl. how much does this drivers cost?
did you sell the pair of JBL 476Be drivers you have for sale for few month ago?


Thanks
Ari

hlaari
07-05-2010, 01:09 PM
The 435Be are ~ $1,800 a pair and the 476Be are ~ $6,000 a pair. The 435Be are available from Harman Consumer Group and the 476Be are available from Crown (with an Everest II serial number, therefore essentially unobtainable).

Technically the 435Be is no longer used in any current production system.

Arguably you would do better to simply put some Truextent Be diaphragms in some newer JBL 4-inch compression drivers and call it done.


Can I get Be aquaplas diaphragm for JBL 2450SL or 2451SL drivers!
I think they have 82,5mm bolt circle like JBL 2435hpl. how much does this drivers cost?
did you sell the pair of JBL 476Be drivers you have for sale for few month ago?


Thanks
Ari

HCSGuy
07-05-2010, 02:48 PM
A quick search will show that the 2450 and 2451 drivers are 4" (100mm) diaphragm drivers and have no parts interchangeable with a 2435HPL. They only used Titanium diaphragms, which were aquaplassed in the SL versions. You can get the TruExtent aftermarket Be diaphragms for them, but they are not aquaplassed.

If you are still pursuing your 2435HPL's, there are no other diaphragms available that I know of. Only JBL, Aluminum or Be, but the Be is not aquaplassed. I don't know any way to get the aquaplassed Be diaphragm of a 435Be - I don't think they serviced them, so the parts were never made available.

hlaari
07-05-2010, 03:12 PM
A quick search will show that the 2450 and 2451 drivers are 4" (100mm) diaphragm drivers and have no parts interchangeable with a 2435HPL. They only used Titanium diaphragms, which were aquaplassed in the SL versions. You can get the TruExtent aftermarket Be diaphragms for them, but they are not aquaplassed.

If you are still pursuing your 2435HPL's, there are no other diaphragms available that I know of. Only JBL, Aluminum or Be, but the Be is not aquaplassed. I don't know any way to get the aquaplassed Be diaphragm of a 435Be - I don't think they serviced them, so the parts were never made available.

I know at JBL 2450 and 2451 have 4" (100mm) diaphragm but 2450SL and 2451SL have same bolt circle 82,5 for horn mounting like 2435hpl.


Regards
Ari

HCSGuy
07-05-2010, 04:13 PM
Sorry, misunderstood your question. The drivers that will fit your horn are:
2450SL (NOT 2450H/J).
2451H,J (don't know if there is a 2451H-SL)
2452H,J, H-SL
2431
2435
435Al
435Be
476Be

Let me know if I missed any. I think you already know this, and also that the only way up from your 2435's is to aquaplas them (435Be) or get 476Be's. Put a wtb in the Lansing Marketplace for 476Be's and see if you get any bites (probably not). If not, learn to read japanese and go looking in the collector's marketplace...

Good luck!

hlaari
07-05-2010, 05:00 PM
Sorry, misunderstood your question. The drivers that will fit your horn are:
2450SL (NOT 2450H/J).
2451H,J (don't know if there is a 2451H-SL)
2452H,J, H-SL
2431
2435
435Al
435Be
476Be

Let me know if I missed any. I think you already know this, and also that the only way up from your 2435's is to aquaplas them (435Be) or get 476Be's. Put a wtb in the Lansing Marketplace for 476Be's and see if you get any bites (probably not). If not, learn to read japanese and go looking in the collector's marketplace...

Good luck!

I can not use JBL 2451H/J driver because of different bolt diameter 114,7mm not 82,5mm. But I dont know about JBL 2432H driver?

subwoof
07-05-2010, 06:08 PM
The magnet structure of the 2450Sl and 2451 are the SAME but the mounting hole diameter is different. Some of the pro horns are drilled for both - and most have a large enough flange for one to drill if needed. I have done this many times.

Some of the newer, small plastic PT horns have too small of a flange to allow the larger dia mounting but I know of no complied list to which is which and JBL has been revising them so fast that one probably never will outside of the factory.

The 2430, 2431, 2432, 2435 models all have the same mechanical frame and bolt pattern that WILL interchange with the AQUAPLASSED first gen 4" coil drivers ( 2450SL, 2450SL-a ) but not with the 2451.

WHy JBL dances around with these different dia's I'll never know.

HCSGuy
07-05-2010, 06:35 PM
You're right, subwoof - 2451 is 4 1/2" (114mm) on center. I'll file that away for future use.

It's odd that they went from 82.5mm on the 2450-SL up to 114mm on the 2451, then back to 82.5mm for the 2452...

subwoof
07-05-2010, 07:36 PM
tell me about it....my shop is full of horns that have been drilled to accept both sizes. some of the 1.5" large horns have fiberglass real close to where the holes need to be so it's an engineering challenge sometimes.

And who at JBL was smoking WHAT when they gave a 1.5" driver ( 2450SL ) the same number as a 2" driver ( 2450 ).

But the snout can be removed from the 2450 and it becomes a 1.5" driver with NO mounting holes that match the horns. Another fun time when I bought 12 of them from a theme park for 50 bux each.

anyways.

but a set of 'plassed 2435Be's on the 2352 horns sound very very nice with little EQ or effort.

:cheers:

HCSGuy
07-05-2010, 09:55 PM
but a set of 'plassed 2435Be's on the 2352 horns sound very very nice with little EQ or effort.That's good to hear - I've got a pair of 2352's waiting for me to build into something.

4313B
07-06-2010, 07:38 AM
Can I get Be aquaplas diaphragm for JBL 2450SL or 2451SL drivers!
I think they have 82,5mm bolt circle like JBL 2435hpl. how much does this drivers cost?
did you sell the pair of JBL 476Be drivers you have for sale for few month ago?


Thanks
AriHere's the link to driver prices. Transducer List.pdf (http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Transducer%20List/Transducer%20List.pdf)

Note that the Pro version of the 435BE, the 2435HPL runs $2,798 a pair. I think you can get them off eBay for something like $20 though. They're pretty worthless. And extremely fragile! Don't bump them or let them come in contact with each other or the neo mags will rip the top plates loose from their super glue bonds. Then you'll have a $20 paperweight. They're very nice sounding but they aren't your dad's LE85's. They are meant to be bolted into a system and left there. They don't take well to lots of handling. Early versions suffered surround creep due to the manufacturing process. Later versions had that issue fixed. Mexico still isn't certified to make them. I guess they're kind of tough to make correctly. In fact, Mexico so far has only been certified to make three driver models. Three... That could be a problem...

I haven't decided yet whether or not I am going to sell my personal pair of 476BE's. They were awfully difficult to obtain and I might use them for something someday.

hlaari
07-06-2010, 01:04 PM
I haven't decided yet whether or not I am going to sell my personal pair of 476BE's. They were awfully difficult to obtain and I might use them for something someday.[/QUOTE]



I have this drivers in my speakers JBL 2254j/2251j/2435hpl and 045Be
This is hornloded speakers with this crossover point 300Hz/700Hz/10kHz



regards
Ari

Rudy Kleimann
08-07-2010, 10:39 AM
That's good to hear - I've got a pair of 2352's waiting for me to build into something.

Yeah, those were MY horns! I thought by now they'd be making music! What happened?

HCSGuy
08-07-2010, 02:35 PM
Sorry, Rudy, no good excuses. Yes it's true, supermodels have been throwing themselves at me to keep me from building the speakers. It's also true that tens of billions of dollars have come my way and I continue my path towards world domination. But now that Obama's had his birthday and I no longer have the stress of figuring out what to buy him (I gave him a $10mil gift card to the Blackberry App store), I should have some time this month to build something. The 2352 horns have the larger bolt circle and won't bolt to a 2435 or 2452. I don't like to drill things, so I my current thinking is 2447's with Be diaphragms on the 2352 and either ME150H's or one of the woofers I got from Giskard. I'm hoping the Be diaphragm will keep me from having to use a tweeter. Any woofer recommendations?

pos
08-07-2010, 03:21 PM
ME150H and... 1500AL?
I will be curious to hear your comments on hox they compare!

Rudy Kleimann
08-07-2010, 09:57 PM
The 2430, 2431, 2432, 2435 models all have the same mechanical frame and bolt pattern that WILL interchange with the AQUAPLASSED first gen 4" coil drivers ( 2450SL, 2450SL-a ) but not with the 2451.

Why JBL dances around with these different dia's I'll never know.

I've been trying to obtain/verify the bolt circle for the 243x drivers to see what they'll fit of mine. The 2431 is used on "standard" PT-FxxHF horns in the AM62xx-series, but the 2432 is used on "-1" variants of the PT-FxxHF horns in the AM72xx-series. Nowhere can I find the bolt circle dimension on the public side of the jblproservice website -and I've looked everywhere. Are the bolt circles the same? What diameter? What is the difference in these horns?

What gives? I can't recall ever seeing a picture of a 2431. From the pictures I have seen of the 2435 and 2432, they look different in a few ways, namely the 2432 looks like it has a bit of a '"snout" on the exit side compared to the 2435. I haven't seen a good head-on shot of the flange side of the 2432 to even try to scale.

AFAIK the 2431 is Al, the 2432 is Ti, and the 2435 is bE (and delicate and too expensive these days).

Trying to find a high-power driver that I can use in place of 2447 to get away without a UHF on top for high-Q PA sound. I don't want to buy something only to find I can't use it on my 235x or 238x horns, or that the marriage sounds like hell. 2432 seems to fill the bill.

What say you, Subwoof? Anybody?

Robh3606
08-07-2010, 10:53 PM
Hello Rudy

This doesn't answer your question directly but I find this to be a really useful page. A 2435/2431 has the same mounting pattern as a 2452. The 2432?? I have been curious as well. I am thinking that the longer snout may be a new and improved phase plug over the 2430/31/35 drivers.

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Discrete%20Sales%20Models.html

Rob:)

Rudy Kleimann
08-08-2010, 12:48 AM
Hello Rudy
This doesn't answer your question directly but I find this to be a really useful page. A 2435/2431 has the same mounting pattern as a 2452. The 2432?? I have been curious as well. I am thinking that the longer snout may be a new and improved phase plug over the 2430/31/35 drivers.

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Discrete%20Sales%20Models.html

Rob:)

Yes,... years ago already:banghead: (sigh) Wish it was there, but the 3" drivers are NFS, so...

Thanks Rob, but deeper sleuthing around all over the site has only produced the hint of "-1" variants of PT-F horns going with the 2432H... so, by deduction, I'm reasonably certain the bolt pattern is different. Why is yet TBD.

RE: the longer snout, there's something to it, but it is odd, considering that the trend since the 2447 has been ever-shorter exit throats on the drivers- every new model has been shorter, to the point that the 2435 and 2452 have been referred to as "Throatless". It's all about the lower-distortion "rapid flare" philosophy with more of a direct line of sight from the diaphragm to the desired coverage area, beginning with the 1.5" exit 2447 driver and "Optimized Aperture" (Marketing "Hoopla" for rapid flare) horns to go with them, the brainchild of the then-freshly recruited Engineer JBL hired away from Renkus-Heinz.

That's why the bolt circle changed from 4" to 4-1/2" -to keep horn throat/driver mismatches from occurring. that, and to provide extra bolt or stud/nut clearance for the 'rapid flare' rate horns...

So you might have something to that. I wonder if the PT-fxxHF-1 horns are shorter by the same amount as the longer 2432 "snout", with a correspondingly larger throat size so the flare contour is really the same, only the driver/horn parting line is further down the path? :hmm:

pos
08-08-2010, 01:56 AM
I thought the -1 PT variants were 1" horns?...

Imporved phase plug on the 2432 ? :hmm:
If that is the case that would be interesting to see if 2435 Be diaphragms would fit in this 2432?

edit: Hmmm the diaphragm structure looks similar to the 2407 or 2416... :(

Rudy Kleimann
08-08-2010, 02:39 AM
I thought the -1 PT variants were 1" horns?...

Imporved phase plug on the 2432 ? :hmm:
If that is the case that would be interesting to see if 2435 Be diaphragms would fit in this 2432?

edit: Hmmm the diaphragm structure looks similar to the 2407 or 2416... :(

The 2432H drivers, whatever their exit size and mounting bolt circle measurements are, come exclusively on the AM7xxx series speaker sytems, and all on "-1" variants of the PT-FxxHF(-1) horns. 2431H come on the "Standard" "non -1" PT-FxxHF horns

Rob's guessing there is an improved phase plug on the 2432- I just said there appears to be an extension, a "snout" on the driver, a la 2446 vs 2447, or 2450 vs 2451. In these cases, the snout was nothing more than a section af an exponential horn to transition from the new 1-1/2" exit to the standard 2" horns they were built to fit.

I am guessing the snout on the 2432 may be serving a similar purpose, but a guess is all I have. It could be larger than 1.5", or not.

You have a 2432 driver in your possession? Why don't you enlighten us all here with some good pics and accurate measurements. It's a golden opportunity to help us all out here with a valuable contribution to the forum. I know I would do it if I had the driver!

First off, what is the mounting bolt circle diameter? that is the question of the day.

Shine a bright light at various angles into the screen and have a look down there to see if a phase plug is lurking up close to the screen inside the extension. Pulling the gasket/screen and measuring the exit up top would be next. I have a feeling you'll find the snout is held on to the driver itself by 4 screws, a la 2450H/J 2" adapter. Then you could pull the snout and measure the snout thickness and it's entry and exit holes to see what the flare rate is. It could be that the 2432 has a slower flare rate, ending at 1.5" at the part you see and somewhat smaller at the driver exit itself. Take pictures with a good ruler across the openings. better yet, a precision caliper good to .001".

Check how far below the face of the driver the phase plug ends. A machinists' measuring tools (or machinist friend with them) would be in order right now.

Inquiring minds want to know...

pos
08-08-2010, 02:56 AM
Sorry I don't have that driver, the photo comes from ebay

herve M
08-08-2010, 05:57 AM
and Here ?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27839-2432H-on-Screen-Array&highlight=2432h

Rudy Kleimann
08-08-2010, 09:41 AM
But the snout can be removed from the 2450 and it becomes a 1.5" driver with NO mounting holes that match the horns.
:cheers:

You mean. like this?

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11051.m43.l1123/7?euid=d6ea93ea4bc145af8b0086f32cd7e706&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll %3FViewItem%26item%3D300453848455%26ssPageName%3DA DME%3AX%3ARTQ%3AUS%3A1123

Auction number 300453848455 in case the above link is invalid.

Talk about timing!

This came up from my saved searches last night. I already pointed out that these are not really 2451's as they are, but look to be 2450's with the wrong labels. Stuinning, actually, considering they are consecutive serial numbers and in mint shape otherwise, according to the seller. Seller deals in high-end gear, so this is a real mystery. I'm trying to get him to pull the 'snouts' off now and verify a 4-1/2" mountig bolt circle exists under them.

subwoof
08-08-2010, 11:18 AM
If you look at the nose on the ebay 2451's ( they are real ) you will see that 4 additional holes were drilled into the 2450 snout ( that also had their magnet cover flanges cut off ) to allow custom LONG bolts to hold the snout to the magnet. It's a whole lot safer to redrill the aluminum snout than drill/tap the super strong magnet. I did it to a pair and it was an exercise in chip management....:)

The 2450 and 2451 use the same magnet BUT the horn mounting holes on the 2451 are standard whereas the mounting holes on the 2450 magnet are for the snout ONLY and are much wider spaced.

Back when I had many of these variants in the shop I photographed the differences and if I find the pix I will post.

Rudy Kleimann
08-08-2010, 12:13 PM
Thanks for replying, subwoof.


[QUOTE=subwoof;292894]
"If you look at the nose on the ebay 2451's ( they are real ) you will see that 4 additional holes were drilled into the 2450 snout"

Yeah, I did notice that, and was guessing along those lines.

"(that also had their magnet cover flanges cut off)"

I don't follow you on that detail. I'll go back and look at the auction again.

**** I see now. I looked at these, then to the JBL data sheet and see it noramllly comes up around the magnet and would cover the 2451 label had it been left on.

"I did it to a pair and it was an exercise in chip management....:)"

Any chance these are the pair you made?