JBL 4430 vs JBL L300 summit

[pw8888]

HI
Could someone describe me the sound difference ?
i have a pair of 4430 . I love the sound.I tried them with a Mcintosh 2255 and a Crown STUDIO REFERENCE 1.
The crown won. tighter bass.

The 4430 doesn't go very very high and i "feel" i wouldn':Dt mind a tweeter.
Does the L300 has the same type of "sound " (specially the bass)

thanks for your info !!!

phil :D

[toddalin]

I find that the L300 does go higher and is more "effortless" in that range. The 4430 has more bass (and sounds "tubbier" in my room) but presents a better "sound stage" with better imaging than my quasi-L300s that have been enlarged by about 3/4 cubic foot with one port blocked for better bass.

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Revised_L200_v4430.jpg

[pw8888]

Can you describe it more "hifi" sounding (l300)?
What amp did you try or do you use currently with them ?
Any recommendation ?
thanks :D !!

[toddalin]

Can you describe it more "hifi" sounding (l300)?
What amp did you try or do you use currently with them ?
Any recommendation ?
thanks :D !!


No, just a little different. And I can't see that the 4430s are too low to the ground as some may suggest seeing as how they are exactly where the factory placed them.

I run mine with a Yamaha RX-Z9 receiver.

[toddalin]

:rolleyes:

I deleted my previous post because there is no point in being involved in any thread you show up in.



So, why did you post in the first place? Must have been a USER ERROR on your part.

And when was the last time that you had a set of L300s and 4430s set up in the same place, at the same time, run by the same equipment so you could do instantaneous A/B comparisons? Ooops, better not answer as you may get involved.

[pw8888]

ok.go back on track please....

thanks toddalin for your advice.

:D

[tom1040]

try a supertweeter? It worked well with my JBL S/2600 speakers.

[HCSGuy]

This thread covers some parallel ground, it may shed some more light on the subject for you:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27829-is-JBL-4333B-quot-much-quot-better-than-JBL-4425&p=280074&highlight=#post280074

[pw8888]

I would love to try a supertweeter ....
any advice ?
what model ?
crossover frequency ?

any advice welcome:D....

[tom1040]

Hi. The one have tried ( & is still connected ) is a Tannoy ST-50. I think this is the lowest on the "totem pole" yet cost a bit. Results were great-to me. Combined with the S/2600 were great. Upgrade fever hit and the 1400 Arrays are in use now.:D:D

[Robh3606]

No, just a little different. And I can't see that the 4430s are too low to the ground as some may suggest seeing as how they are exactly where the factory placed them.


Thats not how they were intended to be mounted. Almost all of the large format monitors were soffit mounted or raised so the HF drivers were are at or above ear level. None of those systems should be set up with woofers on the floor. They all benefit from having the woofers raised up a bit. Even a foot helps.

Rob:)

[4313B]

So, why did you post in the first place? Must have been a USER ERROR on your part.

And when was the last time that you had a set of L300s and 4430s set up in the same place, at the same time, run by the same equipment so you could do instantaneous A/B comparisons? Ooops, better not answer as you may get involved.Because I am thoroughly familiar with both products in a variety of venues. And yes, I've also had them side by side in several venues. But none of that is important - you are quite right, it was USER ERROR on my part to respond to this thread once you showed up. Going forward I will most assuredly defer to your vast depth and breadth of loudspeaker and system expertise and refrain from further postings.

[toddalin]

Thats not how they were intended to be mounted. Almost all of the large format monitors were soffit mounted or raised so the HF drivers were are at or above ear level. None of those systems should be set up with woofers on the floor. They all benefit from having the woofers raised up a bit. Even a foot helps.

Rob:)


That's all fine and dandy. But how many people do you really think soffit mount them in homes?

One must compare the speakers in their ultimate locations, and if it's not hanging, it's not hanging. If they are tubby on the floor and the L300s aren't, well then that's just the way it is.

[toddalin]

Because I am thoroughly familiar with both products in a variety of venues. And yes, I've also had them side by side in several venues.


In my venue in my home? I don't think so. :dont-know:

[Robh3606]

That's all fine and dandy. But how many people do you really think soffit mount them in homes?


That's not the point. The point is to get them on stands off the floor. Try them on the short stands you have the 300's on. I have my 4344's on 1 ft stands and it makes a big difference.

Rob:)

[toddalin]

That's not the point. The point is to get them on stands off the floor. Try them on the short stands you have the 300's on. I have my 4344's on 1 ft stands and it makes a big difference.

Rob:)


I don't have those on stands. Those are hollow bases.

[Robh3606]

I don't have those on stands. Those are hollow bases.

So try your hollow bases with them. Target is raised off the floor. Semantics of Base vs Stand simply not important.

Rob:)

[grumpy]

It'd be good to try, as I've certainly never heard anything but positives here in doing so.

Right now, I find I just end up slouching in my seat :p

[toddalin]

So try your hollow bases with them. Target is raised off the floor. Semantics of Base vs Stand simply not important.

Rob:)


No, you missed the point. Those are physically part of the speakers and open to the insides of the cabinets. As I've noted in the past, those speakers have had their internal volumes increase by ~3/4 cu ft. which should make them about the same as an L300's internal volume.

I would need top raise them on something else. But then there is also the WAF to contend with. As I said, I would bet that very few actually raise these and most listen at their "stock" placement.

Also if you raise them, unless you angle them down, you've changed the horn position relative to the ear. If JBL thought they should be raised, why didn't they provide/suggest an optional, angled stand?

[Robh3606]

Right now, I find I just end up slouching in my seat :p

:lol_fit:

These look nice but I bet they are pricey

Rob:)

[spkrman57]

I had a pair and they sounded better being 4 - 6" off the ground.

A tighter bass than when placed directly on the ground where tended to sound more bloated. Also, I have a small listening space if that helps any!

Ron

[toddalin]

I had a pair and they sounded better being 4 - 6" off the ground.

A tighter bass than when placed directly on the ground where tended to sound more bloated. Also, I have a small listening space if that helps any!

Ron


Bloated = Tubby

[spkrman57]

I would rather have less bass and have it clean, than bass that is not clean.

My love affair with the 2235 driver ended years ago and since then I am happy with really clean midbass that the 2226 delivers even if it does not reach much below 50hz.

In my system, the room gain gives usable below 40hz that is satisfying with the music I listen to that contains very little below 40hz.

Sometime in the future if I were to economically obtain a nice pair of 2234's, I would be temped to try them out as I think they may play the way I like.

Ron

[John]

I had a pair and they sounded better being 4 - 6" off the ground.

A tighter bass than when placed directly on the ground where tended to sound more bloated. Also, I have a small listening space if that helps any!

Ron

Hey I remember that room, It sounded very good even if it was small:bouncy:

[John]

Thats not how they were intended to be mounted. Almost all of the large format monitors were soffit mounted or raised so the HF drivers were are at or above ear level. None of those systems should be set up with woofers on the floor. They all benefit from having the woofers raised up a bit. Even a foot helps.

Rob:)

Where does it say in the 4430-35 user manual that these were designed to be soffit mounted? I really doubt that JBL did their voicing on these systems by placing them in soffit's. :confused:

[mech986]

Where does it say in the 4430-35 user manual that these were designed to be soffit mounted? I really doubt that JBL did their voicing on these systems by placing them in soffit's. :confused:

JBL designed these as Studio Monitors so their professional application was in control rooms or the actual studio. Most were used for monitoring live or replay audio so mostly nearfield monitoring. Since most studio control rooms have big mixing desks, placement on the floor or aside the desk would give really lousy placement or acoustics leading to poorly placed soundstage and midrange dispersion. And they're too big to put on top of the mixer desk like the small monitors with 8" or less woofers.

Most all studios then mounted their large SPL monitors in the walls or soffits to provide a clear unobstructed path to the recording engineers and clients. The soffit mounting provides for flush wall mounting (ultimate infiinite baffle) which minimizes boundary reinforcement from floor or ceiling or side walls which leads to bloated or excessive bass, especially with the dual woofer systems like the 4435/TAD or Augsperger monitors. It also allows the BiRadial horns to work into a much larger space.

Key also is most all studios are specifically acoustically treated to reduce excessive reflection and the whole speaker system/room is equalized to provide the desired response, acoustic or power. If any anomalies appear, they are worked over with EQ, placement, or other means.

In Todd's case, the bass likely is tubby due to floor reinforcement. The base on the 4430/4435 is something that the speaker sits on but in my experience, most 4430/4435's are soffit mounted and the bases are superfluous in that application. Even in the main studio of 4 studios I've seen, the 4435's are soffit mounted instead of being on the floor, partly for frequency and strict control of placement, and likely to save space.

Why doesn't the L200 mod to L300 sound that way? It was designed to be used as a home consumer floor monitor. It is set up to work primarily on the floor. The pro 4333/A is designed to work better in a soffit but can also work as a floor monitor in a pinch but was used in a studio era when acoustically EQing the room/monitor wasn't as feasible or scientific.

The original L200/4320 monitor sounded like crap partly due to the use of the 4320 parts in a floor monitor. If you look where most 4320s were mounted at Capital Records (who requested the design), you'll see they were all mounted up high. Granted this was the 60's but they didn't use them on the floor, they don't sound that good there.

Certainly, WAF is important, and the very nice room (I've been there) shouldn't be cluttered with all kinds of experiments. But a trial of a 6-12 inch stand could provide some nice data and listening experience to tell whether the 4430 likes to be a bit away from the floor. Otherwise, Todd would need to do what the studios do, EQ the bottom end so the floor boundary reinforcement is minimized and the bass is tightend back up.

Nice to have the 4430 Todd, I just think they could benefit from a bit more optimization like your L300's have had.

[John]

JBL designed these as Studio Monitors so their professional application was in control rooms or the actual studio. Most were used for monitoring live or replay audio so mostly nearfield monitoring.

I have only seen a few pictures of 4430,s in studios and included on equipment lists on studio web sites. Which to me sounds like they were not a hot ticket in studios but on the other hand, I have seen them in more bars and restaurants as well as homes than I can count. And the tag "Studio Monitor" did not mean much by the 80's. Every speaker coming out was tagged as one.:(

[4313B]

And the tag "Studio Monitor" did not mean much by the 80's. Every speaker coming out was tagged as one.:(It might not have meant much to the average consumer but it still meant something at the AES:

http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Technologyleadership/Documents/Scientific%20Publications/4573.pdf

I hope my reposting this information doesn't offend you experts. I've used Harman's new link instead of the link here on this website.

The JBL Model 4430 was the most successful large format Studio Monitor JBL ever made. It was available for nearly two decades.

These look nice but I bet they are priceyYeah but you can bet that they are worth it. They won't have the beer rings on the tops or barf stains on the grilles like you'll find here in the States.

[toddalin]

So the article and others simply confirm what I've said all along.

The L300 tweeter has a more effortless high end extension.

The 4430s present better imaging/sound stage.

Placed on the floor, the 4430s tend to be a bit heavy in the upper bass region.

So what's the problem here?

[Robh3606]

Placed on the floor, the 4430s tend to be a bit heavy in the upper bass region.


Well that's the point, not to place them that way. That's what I was getting at. You can make them sound better using short stands like in the Kendric Sound picture I posted. You are making claims about how tubby the 4430's are and you don't have them placed as well as you could. People try to help you and you get argumentative and defensive.



So what's the problem here?

None for me, I always place my speakers to get the most out of them. What's the point of not setting them up if they don't sound their best?? Why bother??

As far a problem comparing the 4430 to the L300. You not placing them optimally makes any comparison between the two worthless.

Rob:)

[toddalin]

Well that's the point, not to place them that way. That's what I was getting at. You can make them sound better using short stands like in the Kendric Sound picture I posted. You are making claims about how tubby the 4430's are and you don't have them placed as well as you could. People try to help you and you get argumentative and defensive.

None for me, I always place my speakers to get the most out of them. What's the point of not setting them up if they don't sound their best?? Why bother??

As far a problem comparing the 4430 to the L300. You not placing them optimally makes any comparison between the two worthless.

Rob:)


The OP asked for opinions.

No one said a word until me, nor would they probably have. In fact, other than me, no one still has yet to offer any comparison between the two.

All most have done is accuse me of an "improper setup" even though this is the way the speaker cabinets are physically designed to sit, this is the way they are typically used in a home setting, and that this is the way they used to place them for audition back in the day when they were sold in high end audio stores and places like Orange County Speaker. (Yeah I was in those places too.)

As for making claims that they are tubby in the position they are in, it's not a claim, it's an opinion that just happens to be backed up by the RTA. Someone could have simply said that even though this is the typical setup, the tubbyness is reduced if the speakers are raised without laying into me.

As far as not raising them making any comparison between the two worthless, well I guess that I was not aware that raising them will extend their high end by ~4,000 Hz or ruin their nice soundstage and imaging.

You guys are too much.

[Robh3606]

Someone could have simply said that even though this is the typical setup, the tubbyness is reduced if the speakers are raised without laying into me.


Well I hope you don't think I laid into you. The only point I was try to get across was raise them off the floor. Just try it and see if you like them better that way.


You guys are too much.

Well I guess we are. The whole point about doing good comparisons is to get each speaker pair set-up as best you can to make a fair comparison between the 2 different pairs. It's just my opinion but anything less than that makes for unfair and inconclusive comparisons.

Rob:)

[702retrotodd]

QUOTE=Robh3606;289710]Well I hope you don't think I laid into you. The only point I was try to get across was raise them off the floor. Just try it and see if you like them better that way.



Well I guess we are. The whole point about doing good comparisons is to get each speaker pair set-up as best you can to make a fair comparison between the 2 different pairs. It's just my opinion but anything less than that makes for unfair and inconclusive comparisons.

Rob:)[/QUOTE]

Gee guys no one has answered the Q what sounds better??? I have had a pair of 4430's they are incredible speakers. if they had a 2405 in them they would be selling for 5,000.00 a pair all day! If the L-300 images as well as the 4430 I am sold. I have 4341's now might be looking to try the L-300's. Just the lack of the top end bothers me on the 4430's. the 2405 is really sweet!!!

[remusr]

The only room I have heard both is my 17'x26' basement music/rec room, sitting on carpet/underlay/concrete, driven by McIntosh C41/MC352. Speakers sit on the floor without any risers beyond their factory base.
4430 - I don't know if something is wrong with my 4430's, but I can't describe their sound as positively as others in this 2010 thread.Their sound is full & rich but hampered by poor definition due to lack of high end. The bass is solid & full not tubby to me, maybe a bit of 60-70Hz bump but not irritating. Very difficult clarity on some female voice, strings, guitar, horn but OK on bass/baritone instruments & great dynamics & presence - a bit like the L100's without the sizzle / headaches and with much better bass. Clarity probs are probably due to lack of top end. Imaging seems Ok but nothing special compared with modern hifi speakers.
L300 - my L300's have a bit flatter bass, may go a bit deeper than the 4430's or it may just be the lack of that 60-70Hz bump. Clarity and high end is an order of magnitude better than 4430's, imaging probably a bit more solid. I would recommend my L300's over my 4430's by a country mile. I mostly listen to my 4345's but do listen to the L300's occasionally; I do not have the 4430's in rotation any more.
I have confirmed the 4430 horns are ok by swapping in other 2425's with no change and xovers look ok, no obvious heat issues and they have been in a low stress home environment to date, but I have not replaced any caps or anything. Both 4430 and L300 have JBL-reconed 2235H's. I have owned the L300's since 2005 and 4430's since 2006.
PS - I thought that speakers need to be securely connected to their support, including using spiked feet or similar; putting on phone books or wheeled bases would be contrary to that principle. As would hanging by a chain I guess, so who knows.

[4313B]

Gee guys no one has answered the Q what sounds better?Seriously?

How many 4430's are out there compared to L300's? It isn't even a contest.

There is nothing wrong with the 4430/4435 top end. Some people merely have a preference for greater high frequency output. When I get to be around eighty years old and need my high frequencies force fed to me I'll probably break the slots out of their boxes too. Right now they sound their best cuddled up in their cute little shipping boxes in the top of my closet. <canned laughter>

The 4333 had a big advantage over the L300 in that one could get that woofer up off the floor where it doesn't belong. We've been through all this before with respect to these old woofers and their aversion to strong boundary reinforcement. Think L250 or 250Ti and how high up off the floor that LE14H is.

In any case, if I had a pair of L300's today I'd be trying the Nelson Pass filter pronto. It could be quite cool.

[remusr]

4313B - my 4430 experience seems totally at odds with yours. My L300's (and 4345's of course) sound far superior. Can you suggest a procedure to check what must be wrong with my 4430's cuz I do not like them? I have swapped 2425's and looked at the xovers but what can I tell from looking other than nothing burnt. Wiring as received, and now, is as schematic diagram. Inexpensive 1/3 octave analyzer with white noise looks ok other than drooping off over 10kHz (L300 doesn't do this). I don't have a scope.

[mech986]

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/4430-35.htm

Important to review, especially about the driver/horn response up to 15K and what they did to make sure it was up there.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1984-4430-35.htm

with all the response curves.

I'd say that if the drivers actually drop off after 10K, then you need a new set of OEM JBL titanium diaphragms and have them installed well. Check the current drivers to see if they are correct JBL diaphragms and what condition they may be in.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio Monitor Series/4430LR.pdf

Crossover diagrams in case you want to work on them.

[4313B]

4313B - my 4430 experience seems totally at odds with yours. My L300's (and 4345's of course) sound far superior. Can you suggest a procedure to check what must be wrong with my 4430's cuz I do not like them?You might want to check the condition of the foam in the back caps of the 2421's, 2425's or 2426's.

It could be that you simply prefer the L300's. Nothing at all wrong with that, regardless of my typically snarky sentence with respect to the slot. I have a love/hate relationship with the ring-radiators, I think it started to manifest around 1982.

The 4430 and 4435 will always rank a little higher on my personal scale than the L300 or 4333. I will always like the looks of the L300.

[ngccglp]

4313B - my 4430 experience seems totally at odds with yours. My L300's (and 4345's of course) sound far superior. Can you suggest a procedure to check what must be wrong with my 4430's cuz I do not like them? I have swapped 2425's and looked at the xovers but what can I tell from looking other than nothing burnt. Wiring as received, and now, is as schematic diagram. Inexpensive 1/3 octave analyzer with white noise looks ok other than drooping off over 10kHz (L300 doesn't do this). I don't have a scope.

Hi remusr, I don't think there is anything wrong with your 4430, nor mine. The sound is exactly as you described. Perhaps we just prefer the sound of the 43 series.

[Audiobeer]

I've owned them both. At very low listening levels I preferred the L-300s because the 077s were a little more forward as well as the midrange. I never listened to music as background however. When set up right my 4430's had the better soundstage. If I had to make a choice between the two again, I'd go with the L-300s so I didn't have to hear the endless nagging about the appearance of the 4430's and because of resale value. However if I was a blind man and single I'd pick the 4430s every time.

[remusr]

Thanks for the kind advice. I will try again. Will open up the 4430 boxes and inspect everything again. Maybe swap the 2425's again.

[turnitdown]

It has been YEARS since the last post in this thread but, I got a pair of 4430s, finally, and this thread was, at the same time, sad, funny, informative and fruitful. I decided I would build 11 2/1 inch risers for them. No more tubbiness as measured in room and subjectively better. Thanks

[1audiohack]

And years later the fact is that even though 4430's have bases on them, they are voiced to be soffit mounted.

Answering the OP's original question is moot at this point so I am going to share a very recent experience on the actual mixing front.

I have a friend, yeah I know, hard to believe! :) that mixes at a restaurant bar that has quality live music. The stage snake is split and there is another board in a control room where he mixes the audio for recording and the video feed.

He owns nearly every real current JBL studio monitor and many 43 and 44 series vintage monitors. In this room his monitor choice is the 4430. The main reason is that what is mixed and mastered in this room on these speakers has pop and jump when listened to later in the car or at home, on like the 4365's, the end result is that the mix sounds good out in the world on the systems we listen to.

Real studio monitors are tools. 4430's dont need to be flat to 40k to create a great live music mix. They need to be flat where the music is and not fatiguing after hours of fairly loud monitoring.

The fact that many of us own and like them at home does not change the fact that they were designed as a large format, soffit mounted monitor voiced for fairly loud playback. Is it any surprise they don't sound great playing softly on the floor in a living room?

This is not a rant, this is hopefully helpful.

I have many real JBL large format studio monitors and my favorite, for my living room, at normal home levels is the 4365, that in truth, despite having a 43 series part number, was designed for domestic use.

Choose the right tool for the job. :)

Barry.

[turnitdown]

Great answer. 4430s are special.

[Mr. Widget]

I have many real JBL large format studio monitors and my favorite, for my living room, at normal home levels is the 4365, that in truth, despite having a 43 series part number, was designed for domestic use.

Choose the right tool for the job. :)Philip Newell discusses this in more detail in his excellent book, "Loudspeakers for Music Recording and Reproduction".

Someone here recommended this book a while back and I have only recently started reading it. It discusses cables, speaker design, and many other topics frequently ranted on and not well understood in many on-line conversations.


Widget
.

[Ed Zeppeli]

Philip Newell discusses this in more detail in his excellent book, "Loudspeakers for Music Recording and Reproduction".

Someone here recommended this book a while back and I have only recently started reading it. It discusses cables, speaker design, and many other topics frequently ranted on and not well understood in many on-line conversations.


Widget
.

Thanks for the tip. It'd better be good for $102 @ Amazon.ca

Cheers,

Warren

[SEAWOLF97]

Thanks for the tip. It'd better be good for $102 @ Amazon.ca

Cheers,

Warren

Just located at my local library, and have a hold on it.

[BMWCCA]

Should be available to read on-line for those of you with college or university affiliation. That no longer includes me!

[honkytonkwillie]

Philip Newell discusses this in more detail in his excellent book, "Loudspeakers for Music Recording and Reproduction".
.

I just passed on this book in favor of another on my Amazon order last Friday. I'll move it up a few spaces on my list.

[ngccglp]

The only room I have heard both is my 17'x26' basement music/rec room, sitting on carpet/underlay/concrete, driven by McIntosh C41/MC352. Speakers sit on the floor without any risers beyond their factory base.
4430 - I don't know if something is wrong with my 4430's, but I can't describe their sound as positively as others in this 2010 thread.Their sound is full & rich but hampered by poor definition due to lack of high end. The bass is solid & full not tubby to me, maybe a bit of 60-70Hz bump but not irritating. Very difficult clarity on some female voice, strings, guitar, horn but OK on bass/baritone instruments & great dynamics & presence - a bit like the L100's without the sizzle / headaches and with much better bass. Clarity probs are probably due to lack of top end. Imaging seems Ok but nothing special compared with modern hifi speakers.
L300 - my L300's have a bit flatter bass, may go a bit deeper than the 4430's or it may just be the lack of that 60-70Hz bump. Clarity and high end is an order of magnitude better than 4430's, imaging probably a bit more solid. I would recommend my L300's over my 4430's by a country mile. I mostly listen to my 4345's but do listen to the L300's occasionally; I do not have the 4430's in rotation any more.
I have confirmed the 4430 horns are ok by swapping in other 2425's with no change and xovers look ok, no obvious heat issues and they have been in a low stress home environment to date, but I have not replaced any caps or anything. Both 4430 and L300 have JBL-reconed 2235H's. I have owned the L300's since 2005 and 4430's since 2006.
PS - I thought that speakers need to be securely connected to their support, including using spiked feet or similar; putting on phone books or wheeled bases would be contrary to that principle. As would hanging by a chain I guess, so who knows.

Sorry for chiming in so late. I have both 4333A and 4430. The above review is very similar to my experience. if I have to keep one, it will be the 4333A.

[corvettedcg]

Thanks for the tip. It'd better be good for $102 @ Amazon.ca

Cheers,

Warren

It's $63.44 at Barnes & Noble. Wish I knew about this book last month when I had a 40% OFF coupon!

[grumpy]

They typically don't allow coupons on technical books. Tried it on a similar ref book a few months ago. :banghead:

[Ian Mackenzie]

What l find interesting is that subjectively some owners prefer the L300 over the 4430 while the JBL white paper stomps all over the 3 way 433x (L300) genre systems and for valid reasons.

Like Rob l think the biradial monitors have been designed for particular mounting (upside down from the studio ceiling) and with compempoary studio acoustic treatment. This is a far cry from domestic wall boundary locations a bare flat walls.

I have used the biradial horn before but l must say l did not like the 2235 woofer.

Is a slug compared to the midrange from the 2234 woofers used in the 4435 (a far superior loudspeaker)

[corvettedcg]

It's $63.44 at Barnes & Noble. Wish I knew about this book last month when I had a 40% OFF coupon!

Found it on Alibris.com for $50 new (hardcover). Ordered it, USPS lost it. Alibis mailed out another. USPS.com is showing "no tracking information found". Not having much luck!

[SEAWOLF97]

Found it on Alibris.com for $50 new (hardcover). Ordered it, USPS lost it. Alibis mailed out another. USPS.com is showing "no tracking information found". Not having much luck!

I just returned my copy to the library . Learned a lot tho it's really heavy on math. Was able to get good comprehension on about 1/3 of it.

Would like to own a copy to re-read and see if I can up the percentage. :blink:

[Dave M]

One thing I would like to note is, the true "professional" JBL Studio monitors, such as 4430/35 and URE 813C are designed for better phase and directivity, because those parameters are very important in the studio environment, so they have to offer somewhat compromised frequency response. With consumer speakers such as L300 or 434x, those parameters are compromised, because average consumers don't concern the phase shift and the other side effects, but they do offer extended frequency response.

[audiomagnate]

One thing I would like to note is, the true "professional" JBL Studio monitors, such as 4430/35 and URE 813C are designed for better phase and directivity, because those parameters are very important in the studio environment, so they have to offer somewhat compromised frequency response. With consumer speakers such as L300 or 434x, those parameters are compromised, because average consumers don't concern the phase shift and the other side effects, but they do offer extended frequency response.

Then why was the 4333, and most of 43xx line for that matter, so popular in studios?

[Dave M]

Then why was the 4333, and most of 43xx line for that matter, so popular in studios?

Were they? As far as I know, 4333 or 3 way JBL were much less popular than Altec, UREI or 4320 for studio main. I personally have never seen any of those 3 way JBL used as studio main...

[Ian Mackenzie]

Don might best respond to this point.

The early 4320 was used a lot as was the 4310.

I think JBL were good at marketing the belief of industry leader but of course don't believe everything you read.

If you have a look over in the Library you can glean how things went.

[gibber]

Originally Posted by remusr http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=346586#post346586) The only room I have heard both is my 17'x26' basement music/rec room, sitting on carpet/underlay/concrete, driven by McIntosh C41/MC352. Speakers sit on the floor without any risers beyond their factory base.
4430 - I don't know if something is wrong with my 4430's, but I can't describe their sound as positively as others in this 2010 thread.Their sound is full & rich but hampered by poor definition due to lack of high end. The bass is solid & full not tubby to me, maybe a bit of 60-70Hz bump but not irritating. Very difficult clarity on some female voice, strings, guitar, horn but OK on bass/baritone instruments & great dynamics & presence - a bit like the L100's without the sizzle / headaches and with much better bass. Clarity probs are probably due to lack of top end. Imaging seems Ok but nothing special compared with modern hifi speakers.
L300 - my L300's have a bit flatter bass, may go a bit deeper than the 4430's or it may just be the lack of that 60-70Hz bump. Clarity and high end is an order of magnitude better than 4430's, imaging probably a bit more solid. I would recommend my L300's over my 4430's by a country mile. I mostly listen to my 4345's but do listen to the L300's occasionally; I do not have the 4430's in rotation any more.
I have confirmed the 4430 horns are ok by swapping in other 2425's with no change and xovers look ok, no obvious heat issues and they have been in a low stress home environment to date, but I have not replaced any caps or anything. Both 4430 and L300 have JBL-reconed 2235H's. I have owned the L300's since 2005 and 4430's since 2006.
PS - I thought that speakers need to be securely connected to their support, including using spiked feet or similar; putting on phone books or wheeled bases would be contrary to that principle. As would hanging by a chain I guess, so who knows.



Sorry for chiming in so late. I have both 4333A and 4430. The above review is very similar to my experience. if I have to keep one, it will be the 4333A.

I have had both, not at the same time, but in the same room. First, the 4333(no "A") for about a year, and then the 4430 for ca. 2 1/2 years.

My feeling was that the 4430 is the much better speaker in the midrange, even if the mids out of the 2235H are "slow/tame" (perhaps due to the mass ring that the 2234H units in 4435s don't have). But 4430 mids are a lot more neutral than the 2231 plus long mid horn/lens in 4333s are.
A thing about getting good sound in the treble also from the 443x-series monitors is to have either the early version with 2421 drivers, or have 2421 frams fitted to the 2425/26 unit. Swapping 2425/26 for 2421s is possible with a bit of woodworking - the driver is supported inside the cab by a holder that is slightly different for the ferrites.

Alu frams in 4430 don't not give you quite the resolution of a 2405 slot tweeter, but you're not far away and don't suffer the jump in coverage angle and hence jump of into-the-room-output that the 4333 has where the slot sets in. In a heavily damped studio, this jump in energy may be taken care of by damped studio walls. In your home, you will hear it bounced at you from the side walls. Perhaps the reason for the inferior imaging several of us noticed in 4333 ?

[Ian Mackenzie]

In a room with suitable sound absorbing material on the walls the presentation of the 4430 is more in your face.

This is the problem with the 100 x100 biradial horn,

It sound sound too diffuse in a domestic room.

Guide put a Tad 2002 driver on this monitor and the results were spectacular.

[gibber]

Guide put a Tad 2002 driver on this monitor and the results were spectacular.

...that's taking my suggestion with Alu fram in the 2425/26 a step further.


What is the type of the monitor on the hard left in the picture you linked to?
Never came across these monsters before.
Ralph

[Ian Mackenzie]

It's a 4350/55 reproduction with a vertical configuration of the baffle (from the same cabinet maker for Kendric as l recall)

[corvettedcg]

I've been wanting to replace my 4425's with 4430's and a very nice pair of 4430's have come up for sale locally. Unfortunately, I believe the seller is asking too much, or maybe I'm out of touch with what 4430's are selling for. The seller is asking $3,600 and I believe he's firm on the price. The hunt continues!

[1audiohack]

That's pretty steep. I doubt a nice pair of 4435's would get near that price.

Barry.

[corvettedcg]

That's pretty steep. I doubt a nice pair of 4435's would get near that price.

Barry.

Maybe he'll come down to Earth and lower the price. In the meantime, I'll keep listening to my 4425's.

[toddalin]

I've been wanting to replace my 4425's with 4430's and a very nice pair of 4430's have come up for sale locally. Unfortunately, I believe the seller is asking too much, or maybe I'm out of touch with what 4430's are selling for. The seller is asking $3,600 and I believe he's firm on the price. The hunt continues!


I sold my pair for $1,100 with new foams on the woofers from OCS, but the cabinets weren't perfect and one had a "dented" corner.