bass cabs

[bottleneck]

Hi all

Current system is -

1) jbl 2405 tweet
2) Tad 4002 on a 2397 smith horn
3) Tad 1601b in a ported bass cab.

x-over - at 800hz and 8khz.
using an ashley 3 way crossover, just trying a passive right now, seems to be quieter with the single ended valve amps I like to listen to so much. Not really a suprise given I'm mixing pro x-over with valve amps, but anyway back to topic...


Bass cabs..

My favourite bass 'sound' for domestic purposes is not a ported bass cab. I enjoyed listening to Karlson cabs, front loaded horn cab, vitavox oracle http://website.lineone.net/~empson/Oracle.html

...all of which are 'horn loaded' bass cabs of one description or another.

I am entreagued by the VOTT style of bass horn, and the Altec816a design.

I am not certain in short, which of this type of bass horn would mate well with the 4002, and furthermore if the 1601b is compatible with such an enclosure - or whether I'd be better off selling the bass drivers for (probably cheaper) drive units.

Incidentally, I'd like to put (eventually when I move home) ''snail shell'' folded type bass subs underneath this (sonically underneath)...



So I have rambled somewhat, let me sum up the questions for you guys :)



1) Has anyone heard the 1601 TAD driver in a horn loaded cab? If so which one, what were your impressions?

2) What are peoples impressions on the variety of horn-loaded bass cabs out there?



Eventually I am going to have to suck one type and see, I am just getting experiences for now..

Thanks :)

[jcrobso]

http://website.lineone.net/~empson/featuring_Vitavox.html

Interesting variation, If you scroll down the link you will see other examples that look like JBL rear loading horns. do searches on JBL C40, 4530, etc.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?1166-4530-plans

The Altec VOTT is only horn loading to about 120Hz after that the bass reflex takes over.
True bass horns are very large, all most all of them are folded in some way. The Klipsch corner horn is one of the best examples of this, but there were some comprises made in it's design.
Once you start looking at the dimensions of a bass horn you will see why bass reflex is so popular. Don't get me wrong I have a pair of home made "K" horns and a pair of C40 rear loading horns, they are big. One member here just got a BIG horn sub that would be 20' long if it were not folded.:eek:
Sorry, I can't help with info on the TAD, but most speakers of this type do very well in horn loaded cabinets. Maybe other with some TAD experience will post.

[bottleneck]

oh for sure, with you on the ''need to fold it past a certain point''

I was thinking of something that would direct-radiate below (as an example 200hz) and then if I do bring a folded horn in, I can do it about that frequency and get rid of that directly radiating low bass... but in the meantime it would be horn-loaded lower than I have now with my ported cab.

[jcrobso]

oh for sure, with you on the ''need to fold it past a certain point''

I was thinking of something that would direct-radiate below (as an example 200hz) and then if I do bring a folded horn in, I can do it about that frequency and get rid of that directly radiating low bass... but in the meantime it would be horn-loaded lower than I have now with my ported cab.
The low frequency cutoff of the 4520 is 32hz and this is a BIG dual 15" rear loading horn.
The C40 rear loading horns I have a cutoff of 40hz. The horn part of the rear loading horns starts to work from 120hz down to the cutoff of the horn. The C40 box is about 8 cu ft if it was a bass reflex box and it could easily be tuned to 28hz which could give a response down to 20hz.
Once a horn is below it's cut off frequency it's output drops off very very fast, much faster than a bass reflex box would below the box tuning frequency.
My "K" horns are dead below 27hz than at 32hz they come alive and will shake the room.
If you want an idea of hoe big a bass horn would have to be to deliver 20hz look here and scroll down to the pictures.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?28534-The-quot-Big-Bottom-Sub-quot-Patio-System&highlight=rear+loading+horns
A 8cu ft bass reflex box with dual 18" would also give you 20hz.

[bottleneck]

I like the look of those rear loaded horns :)

An easy build, too.

Wonder if anyone has had them back to back with front loaded horn-bins like the Altec 816?

http://www.voiceofthetheatre.com/images/816A.1.jpg

[jcrobso]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310177941516&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310177942002&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I have a set of 4560 bass horns, I have used them in conjunction with my C40 reloading horns. The bass levels of the 4560 drops off at horn cutoff, the output of the bass reflex part of the 4560 is not as efficient as the horn part. The rear loading horn of the C40 takes over where the horn part of the 4560 leaves off and gives good bass down to 40hz.
I have seen a couple variations of the Altec front horn.
VOTT show up from time to time.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Altec-825-Plywood-Cabinets-Pair-Vintage-Theatre-Speaker-/170494901246?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27b249bbfe
Some recent posts.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?15797-4560-JBL-Bass-Bins&highlight=jbl+4560
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?15797-4560-JBL-Bass-Bins&highlight=jbl+4560

As much as I like horns, I'm building a pair of smaller trapezoid style boxes that are easier to haul around. :crying:

[bottleneck]

you know

I think that 4560 cab could be ideal.... because....

1) I could load the smith horn / tad 4002 in the ''top slot'' (as per the person in the link you provided)

..I am guessing so - that's not a port at the top above the horn is it?

2) It gives (probably) more bass below the horn (200hz) than a straight horn would do (I am presuming).


NB
You haven't seen any charts of this cab have you? It would be good to see what it's like before contemplating a build.

[jcrobso]

Here is JBL brochure of the this series of cabinets.
Take a look.
Also look at the bass reflex boxes and their frequency response.