TAD sytem TAd component TAd everything FULL analog..FILTERING....THANKS FOR YOUR HELP

[pw8888]

HI everybody,
First thanks to Widget and all the very precious advices.
Instead of sending PM i tought it is better to share this with everybody.
I am a studio owner.But an mixing enginner first (15 years)
SSL studio. Full analog gear ....etc...
ok.
I just bought a new room recently (PAris) and the big system is not AT ALL what i am looking for. (pict included)
I always loved TAD system.
i have a possibility to buy a custom TAD system (pict included) based on
4x 1602 per side
1 x 4003 per side
and a ET-703 as well perside

What you see on the picture are done in 2 part
the low part with 2 x 1602
and the rest with 2x 1602 + 4003 + 703



First i joined pict of the actual system( the red one ).(i am about to remove it)
But i have 2 question :

1- What about replacing the 1602 by 1601 (the top 4 one only ) (basically keep the 1602 for the low only) --saying that because i love the 1601b and i own 4 of them already

2- how can i do a proper alignement of the tweeter 703 in the analog world ?

3-i DO NOT WANT ANY CONVERSION A/D D/A in the big system.i don't know why i should.right now the system have BSS 366 crossover.i am planning to base the system on Bryston 10 B's.



The result ? I am looking for a full analog system that do music !! not " sound" :D

amp are going to be between (need to try)
crown studio reference 1
Bryston 4Bsst
Maybe a Mcintosh MC2500

not looking for the most " up to date system" in the world.
looking for a musical and coerent system


Please send your advice.thanks for your help.:):):D

[jerry_rig]

Wow. I am starting to put together a TAD 4003 based system, so I am not an expert. But you will not be able to time align the 703 without some serious drilling. On the other hand, it may not make that much difference overall. (The 703 appears to be turned 90 degrees and the TH-4003 looks to be upside down, perhaps for a good reason.)

Mixing the 1602 and 1601b drivers could lead to issues -- they are not the same sensitivity and have different resonance frequencies. Also, you will likely have comb filtering effects unless you are crossing them over at different points. It is possible you would have to re-tune the ports, though that doesn't look too easy.

I'd say just live with them and see how you like them. Best of luck.

[boputnam]

I just bought a new room recently (Paris) and the big system is not AT ALL what i am looking for. (pict included) First i joined pict of the actual system( the red one ).(i am about to remove it)That would be my instinct. I cannot imagine the potential flaws with trying to get good imaging out of those RED ones. Then again, the 4345 works, but was not homemade, and had loads of refinement done before made commercial. I am betting those RED ones are one-offs...? Not a good sign...


how can i do a proper alignement of the tweeter 703 in the analog world ?In my view, impossible.


i DO NOT WANT ANY CONVERSION A/D D/A in the big system.i don't know why i should.right now the system have BSS 366 crossover.i am planning to base the system on Bryston 10 B's.You should reconsider this view, and also overshoot the BSS with an xta or Galileo. These are really very good sounding and will provide the chance of elimiating / reducing phase / timing issues - the benefits will far outway the problems you expect from DAC. You are looking at a very complicated system requiring careful tailoring of phase, gains structure and crossovers. That said, even using the xta or other, I expect you will be way-out on the learning curve trying to "tune" this room yourself.

Keep us posted.



The result ? I am looking for a full analog system that do music !! not " sound" :D

amp are going to be between (need to try)
crown studio reference 1
Bryston 4Bsst
Maybe a Mcintosh MC2500

not looking for the most " up to date system" in the world.
looking for a musical and coerent system


Please send your advice.thanks for your help.:):):D[/QUOTE]

[scott fitlin]

PW, I am currently using TAD 1603 15in woofers, and they are really good. However, I am conveeting to the 1601B! THIS IS TADS BEST sounding woofer. IMO, and according to TAD technical support, as well.

For what your doing, Studio monitoring, I sincerely doubt you can find a BETTER compression driver than the 4003. And the ET-703 is the TWEETER of ALL Tweeters. NOTHING FINER EXISTS!

I love analog sound, and analog processing, for it's warmth, and certain colorations. However, these days, PHENOMENAL DSP processors are available, such as Galileo, BSS, XTA, and DOLBY LAKE! Bo Putnam tells you right. DO NOT OVERLOOK DSP, the technology is that good these days, AND has features, like phase correction, and delay, YOU NEED! If this were 5 years ago, I would say ANALOG ALL THE WAY! But times have changed, and DSP has become VERY good.

Bo also recommended Crown and Bryston amplification. For the woofers, I can't recommend the Crown Studio Reference 1 ENOUGH! TAD 1601B,s and Crown Studio referdnce 1 amps, will be audio to die for. Bryston the rest of the way and YOU will have SUPER CLEAN, AMAZING ACCURACY, THE ULTIMATE RELIABILITY, in amplifiers designed for the bare minimum of coloration. Again, I already use TAD 15,s, and when I SWITCHED TO Tad, went through every brand of amps I have! BGW, Crest, McIntosh, QSC, Bryston, and Crown!

Crown is what runs my 12 TAD 1603,s soon to be 1601B,s! And the Studio Reference series of amps are absolutely phenomenal! You'll NEVER be sorry you use this amp, NEVER, it is THAT GOOD! :D

[pw8888]

thanks you so much for all those great advices !!!:D

ok. then can I find better than BSS ? the sound horrible to me ...but hey it is taste maybe !?
would I gain by using high quality converter AD and DA ?
Can you give me your exeperience as far as crossover are concerned ?

Boputnam :
for sure i am not doing that on my own...i have some very qualified people around me.
but more advice is always better than not enough.and they speak like you. they tell me to go the digital way ....

thanks to all !!!
still waiting for some analog "hard" believer :D:D:D:D !!

[pw8888]

PW, I am currently using TAD 1603 15in woofers, and they are really good. However, I am conveeting to the 1601B! THIS IS TADS BEST sounding woofer. IMO, and according to TAD technical support, as well.

For what your doing, Studio monitoring, I sincerely doubt you can find a BETTER compression driver than the 4003. And the ET-703 is the TWEETER of ALL Tweeters. NOTHING FINER EXISTS!

I love analog sound, and analog processing, for it's warmth, and certain colorations. However, these days, PHENOMENAL DSP processors are available, such as Galileo, BSS, XTA, and DOLBY LAKE! Bo Putnam tells you right. DO NOT OVERLOOK DSP, the technology is that good these days, AND has features, likie phase correction, and delay, YOU NEED! If this were 5 years ago, I would say ANALOG ALL THE WAY! But times have changed, and DSP has become VERY good.

Bo also recommended Crown and Bryston amplification. For the woofers, I can't recommend the Crown Studio Reference 1 ENOUGH! TAD 1601B,s and Crown Studio referdnce 1 amps, will be audio to die for. Bryston the rest of the way and YOU will have SUPER CLEAN, AMAZING ACCURACY, THE ULTIMATE RELIABILITY, in amplifiers designed for the bare minimum of coloration. Again, I already use TAD 15,s, and when I SWITCHED TO Tad, went through every brand of amps I have! BGW, Crest, McIntosh, QSC, Bryston, and Crown!

Crown is what runs my 12 TAD 1603,s soon to be 1601B,s! And the Stucio Reference series of amps are absolutely phenomenal! You'll NEVER be sorry you use this amp, NEVER, it is THAT GOOD! :D


Scott....
question : I was wondering if i should go (to drive the 4003) the bryston way (4bsst) or the Mcintosh (mc2500) way.
what do you think ?

in what "configuration " do you use you crown ?
stereo and you drive one 15" per side ? Or bridged and you drive 2x 15" with them ?

thanks for your info !!

[scott fitlin]

Scott....
question : I was wondering if i should go (to drive the 4003) the bryston way (4bsst) or the Mcintosh (mc2500) way.
what do you think ?

in what "configuration " do you use you crown ?
stereo and you drive one 15" per side ? Or bridged and you drive 2x 15" with them ?

thanks for your info !!I use 3 Crown PSA-2, with 2 TAD woofers per channel. I am in the process of selecting modern amps to run then, NOT that the PSA-2,s don't ABSOLUTELY KICK ASS, though!

For the 1.5in 4003 compression driver, it becomes a matter of personal taste, having used Mc, Bryston, and Crown on my compression drivers, I'll give you my opinion on sonics.

1. Bryston, Utmost in clean power, ample headroom with beefy power supply, The resolution is PHENOMENAL. You will hear things in recordings you NEVER knew were there. And VERY dynamic, like crown is dynamic, percussion's have that transient POP and snap! Can be a slight bit analytical sounding, but, GREAT AMPS!

2. McIntosh. Also great amp, but softer sounding. With a Mc, it is like shining a spotlight on the UPPER range of a female vocalist. Smooth, delicate, sweet, sound. BUT not dynamic enough for me, like Bryston or Crown. But, Mc is a sweet sound.

BTW, the MC-2500 is TOO BIG of an amplifier for your TAD 4003,s! a Bryston 3B SST is THE AMP. And IF you just gotta have that bit more headroom, the 4B SST!

My opinions. :D

[scott fitlin]

thanks you so much for all those great advices !!!:D

ok. then can I find better than BSS ? the sound horrible to me ...but hey it is taste maybe !?
would I gain by using high quality converter AD and DA ?
Can you give me your exeperience as far as crossover are concerned ?

Boputnam :
for sure i am not doing that on my own...i have some very qualified people around me.
but more advice is always better than not enough.and they speak like you. they tell me to go the digital way ....

thanks to all !!!
still waiting for some analog "hard" believer :D:D:D:D !!I don't like the BSS sound, either. BUT Dolby Lake, and GALILEO are supposed to be ALL THAT.

For what they cost, they dayum well ought to be! :D

[pw8888]

I don't like the BSS sound, either. BUT Dolby Lake, and GALILEO are supposed to be ALL THAT.

For what they cost, they dayum well ought to be! :D


scott....me again :D

Can you or somebody else could provide me the exact model nbr of Dolby lake or galileo unit to use ?
thanks
pw8888

[scott fitlin]

scott....me again :D

Can you or somebody could provide me the exact model nbr of Dolby lake or galileo unit to use ?
thanks
pw8888http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/zz-_Shared_Assets/English_PDFs/Professional/pa_sp_0601_Lake.pdf

The LP4D12 is the FLAGSHIP Dolby Lake processor. It can run up FOUR 3 way stereo crossovers in ANY filter type and slope, and also asymetric crossover filter/slopes, in addition to EQing, time delay, phase correction, and all sorts of things. It is capable of ANY gain structure you need to be able to do. AND the front panel display is like a STAR WARS SHOW, NOT THAT THIS REALLY MATTERS, BUT YES IT DOES! LOL!

Sonically they get rave reviews and is what I am looking at IF I decide to go DSP, again. My last two times with DSP was with BSS, and well, I don't have to tell you, you already know.

The SAME TOP FLIGHT SOUND PROFESSIONALS that recommend Dolby Lake, also recommend The Galileo! But Bo can probably tell you more about The Galileo than I can.

As far as what I use for crossover right now, I use a HIGHLY customized, built to my specifications MARCHAND XM-44 plus a second 3 way custom crossover for my subs and super tweeters! These are analog 3 way stereo units. I can't recommend what I do for your application, NOT because it isn't great sounding, BUT I had my units built and designed for a dance music system. My crossovers have certain colorations, and ARE NOT 100% ACCURATE sounding. It IS amazing sound, but this sound is specific to a dance floor, and a nightclub. Studio monitoring is a different game, ACCURACY is THE NAME OF THAT GAME!

IF there IS anything bad to say about either the Dolby Lake or The Galileo, it, like TAD, is price, SUPER EXPENSIVE! But, the crossover/processor is CRITICAL to your system, so, THIS HAS TO BE OF THE HIGHEST quality one can afford! I am in the process of of converting from TAD 1603 woofers to 1601B, so I feel what you or anyone else feels at these price levels. I ONLY NEED 12 tad 1601B,s AND I GET TO SELL OFF MY 1603,S, SO, can't be that bad, right? LOL! But I can't recommend the TAD 1601B enough. It is simply a fantastic woofer.

Check out the link to the Dolby Lake site, plenty to read, this will keep you busy for a while.

CHEERS, :cheers:

[jerry_rig]

If you can swing it, I'd say this would be your best bet:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1280701798&/Accuphase-DF-45-Active-Reference

[speakerdave]

I doubt I would go digital just to time-align that tweeter; a case of straining at a gnat, I should think. Not all of my gear is in the same league as the 4003/4003, but I am using it with the Bryston 10B, and I think it is a combination that is worth a try. I know the recording studio business must consider customer expectations, and so in the end you probably must have a super tweeter out to light, but for music, as you say, some very respectable folks have used the 4003/4003 without one (and its complications)--TAD, for example, in their 2404 monitor.