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SEAWOLF97
03-29-2010, 11:45 AM
was "talking" with another member about L26's and mentioned that I regard them as OVERACHIEVERs ...ie: better than the sum of their parts..

there is another thread about L80T's, which I consider "out of the box" as UNDERACHIEVERs...ie: not as good as the sum of their parts.

any thots ?

any other examples ?

timc
03-29-2010, 12:02 PM
I see your point.

Basically you are talking about value for money (retail price). There are examples of both good and bad buys out there. Both past and present.

Personally I think that the K2/Everest II are amazing. They are REALLY expensive, but compared to other brands TOTL systems, they are dirt cheap, and IMO way better.

I mean...what would you prefer. A Goldmund or an Everest II?

Bad JBL's....hm. Not sure. I have not hear many of the vintage systems. But i guess, that if im honest, that the L65 Jubal, could have been better, considering the transducers used. But its not bad at all.

brad347
03-29-2010, 02:40 PM
But i guess, that if im honest, that the L65 Jubal, could have been better, considering the transducers used. But its not bad at all.

I own a pair of L-65a and I might agree.

I like them. They sound nice. But if we were being very honest, the 077 is crossed over a bit too low in these systems. There's something a little inconsistent in the midrange, I think. Isn't the 077 crossed at about 6.5k in the L-65 and variants? It enters into its linear range round about 8k, correct?

BUT the L-65As I own are really nice speakers. I'm more than happy with them, especially for the $50 I paid. :D

But at the ~$1000 or even more they were fetching pre-recession? Not so sure.

cosmos
03-29-2010, 02:49 PM
was "talking" with another member about L26's and mentioned that I regard them as OVERACHIEVERs ...ie: better than the sum of their parts..

there is another thread about L80T's, which I consider "out of the box" as UNDERACHIEVERs...ie: not as good as the sum of their parts.


Interesting. I am polar opposite with your thoughts. I think the L80T is a very good speaker and the L26 not so much.. Not to say it's bad, but I never really cared for the LE20/LE25 tweeters. In honesty, I like the L80T3 better than the L80T. In my mind, the 035Ti is light years ahead..

SEAWOLF97
03-29-2010, 03:59 PM
Interesting. I am polar opposite with your thoughts. I think the L80T is a very good speaker and the L26 not so much.. Not to say it's bad, but I never really cared for the LE20/LE25 tweeters. In honesty, I like the L80T3 better than the L80T. In my mind, the 035Ti is light years ahead..

Is it possible that your ears HF sensitivity is down a bit ?? Many people describe the L80T as "overbright". I like the 4410 which has virtually the same driver load as the L80T...so I think we've determined that the weak point is the network....since Phil said his improved with the T3 network substitution.....but you notice that I said "out of the box" , not "after tweaks" in the original question.

cosmos
03-29-2010, 04:49 PM
Is it possible that your ears HF sensitivity is down a bit ?? Many people describe the L80T as "overbright". I like the 4410 which has virtually the same driver load as the L80T...so I think we've determined that the weak point is the network....since Phil said his improved with the T3 network substitution.....but you notice that I said "out of the box" , not "after tweaks" in the original question.

Well, it's certainly possible.. I am 52 and have lived a fairly active life.

Interestingly, it's not the amount of highs, but the symballance that has always bothered me about the LE20/25. To me, they have always sounded distorted or harsh. Even during my high school and college years in the 70s spent selling JBL and other gear. Put a phase cap in front of them and it's much better. Is it me? I don't know, but it's always been my opinion... I didn't care for the decade series in the 70s and still am not a fan today. A couple months ago I sold a pair of L36 to clear space.. and still own L80T.. FWIW. I also continue to own Yamaha NS-1000, neither sound harsh to me. I am not insinuating you are wrong. We are just differing in our views.

rdgrimes
03-29-2010, 04:56 PM
L86 = overachiever. I've yet to hear anyone who wasn't seriously impressed by these little gems. Much greater than the sum of the modest parts.

SEAWOLF97
03-29-2010, 05:33 PM
I didn't care for the decade series in the 70s and still am not a fan today. A couple months ago I sold a pair of L36 to clear space.. and still own L80T.. FWIW. I also continue to own Yamaha NS-1000, neither sound harsh to me. I am not insinuating you are wrong. We are just differing in our views.

I also did not care for the L36 ...thot the mid was poorly done, and I am currently using some NS-690II's...the cheaper little bro to your NS-1000's.


L86 = overachiever. I've yet to hear anyone who wasn't seriously impressed by these little gems. Much greater than the sum of the modest parts.

agree there ....have a pair of L86 (with boxes) that I have to sell , tho dont want to ...just nowhere to use them.

BMWCCA
03-29-2010, 06:31 PM
I see your point.

Basically you are talking about value for money (retail price).
I took it as more of just a disappointment where the expectation based on the components would be higher than the result, and vice-versa.

My list of over-achievers would have to include the L7, and that would make the L5 by default an even better over-achiever candidate!

Our little group of Mid-Atlantic noshers would likely all agree that the L1 is a heaping big over-achiever. And I suppose the L96 would have to be included as well, particularly when held up to icons such as the L112. Less is at least as good, and in some cases may actually be more. I always root for the underdog!

Ducatista47
03-29-2010, 09:39 PM
Well, they did cost a ton new and the parts are nothing to sneeze at either, but the 4345 is an over achiever to my ears. If sounding better than the sum of the parts and positive synergy are plus points, the 4345 is a poster child.

The 2245H/2122H combo is hard to beat (does the 2245H have an equal anywhere for putting hi in bass hifi?), and the sound seems to come from one source. Not easy for a big four way. They don't image worth a darn, but the sound... It drops jaws every time and with every passing month of ownership appreciation usually deepens.

I am sure the Array, K2 and Everest II would blow them out of the water, but I'm not complaining. Have you noticed the 4345 holds its value? No wonder.

Clark

Slare
03-29-2010, 11:15 PM
I'd have to vote for the L1. I dunno what it is about that speaker exactly but I've preferred it to every other similar two way JBL I've heard. L5's are also very nice but that's more of a value proposition than a sum of its parts type of thing. I also quite like the S38 / E50 type bookshelves as another configuration that just works.

All four are priced within the realm of pretty much everybody and I'd recommend any hobbyist pick them up given the chance, if for no other reason than to toy with. They are all pretty much fully depreciated so you are bound to get your money back or possibly make a buck if you snag the L's low.

SEAWOLF97
03-30-2010, 08:19 AM
Thanx for the replies...most of you are getting the essence of my question....to put it colloquially, : who is punching above their weight class ?? (and below) ...this is NOT a quality or enjoyment rating.

from only the JBL's that I have personal knowledge of, ratings would be...

MORE than the sum of their parts: L7 , L166 , L26, L86, 4410

about what you expect for the parts load: L40,L56,L88,L100,4412, 250ti

LESS than what you expect for the parts load: L36, L80T, 4412

now some eagle eyed reader may remember that I once rated the 4412 & L166 nearly equal, with a slight nod to the Horizons..and now it shows waayyy different on the current list...remember that this list is "which uses its parts more effectively" ie: the L166 does slightly better than the 4412 with lesser parts. Yes, the 4412 is listed twice, having trouble placing it.

Now you might notice that the L26 & L36 are virtually the same speaker as far as HF and LF with the only difference being that addition of the mid for the L36...that indicates to me that the mid wasn't done correctly...also the 4410 and L80T are virtually the same driver load, but rate very different,, which I attribute to box/network differences.

opimax
03-30-2010, 09:31 AM
I thought the 60t were poor no matter the price so I would rate those on the not worth it side

Mark

Wagner
03-30-2010, 09:54 AM
L20T

Thomas

jcrobso
03-30-2010, 01:22 PM
Overachiever!

4343
03-30-2010, 06:22 PM
Overachiever!
+1:applaud:

Add an SB-5 and they work great outdoors even. (Think lawn party background music...)

My Overachiever vote goes to L-110, I use them near-field all day long...

And 4412A. Plus 4430.

L-112's get the Underachiever vote in my book.

SEAWOLF97
04-02-2010, 11:09 AM
them little JBL iPod speaker docks are waayyy overachievers....sound much better than they have the right to ...(looking at the drivers)

SEAWOLF97
08-13-2010, 03:00 PM
think I'll add the L-16 to the Over Achiever list.really like the little guys ...just a 116-a with an LE25-2 , but they fill a room well with a nicely balanced sound....always liked 2 ways
( and 1 ways) for imaging....:applaud:.....looks like its time to wind grandfather ;)

macaroonie
08-15-2010, 04:52 PM
Overachiever!

Control 1 Can you imagine how many of those little guys they must have sold. When did they start ? 87 ? that is more than 20 years in production. :applaud::applaud::applaud:

jblnut
08-20-2010, 11:59 AM
Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, you can't beat the little J50. I paid $100 a pair brand new in 1995 and these things will still kick the #$@%^ out of any Cambridge Soundworks mini.

They get daily use still....

jblnut

laurie
08-20-2010, 03:17 PM
I don't know if they are an overachiever or underachiever but my JBL TLX 14 speakers still sound incredible after 21 years - I bought them in 1989.

Over the years I've heard many expensive speakers from so many different famous brands but I still haven't thought of replacing them.

Audiobeer
08-20-2010, 05:41 PM
JBL 8216A or 8216TA industrial series. Ugly POS but can be had all day long for $50 a pair and they run circles around a contol 5. I know not a pedigree but a hell of a bargain basement sleeper.

bone215
08-20-2010, 06:30 PM
4412a overachiever.

gferrell
08-20-2010, 06:37 PM
My lowly L7's are over achievers in my opinion. I really don't have anything to compare them to. And can not afford anything else. They sure sound good to me.

gferrell
08-20-2010, 06:40 PM
Money wise don't forget the L100's

SpeakerLabFan
08-21-2010, 06:08 PM
L-46s are another two-way that impress to my ears, which I admit were raised on and biased toward that forward "west coast" sound (re:speakerlabfan).

A nice build with the 117H 8" woofer and 034 titanium dome tweeter. They don't challenge the aDs 710s in my "bookshelf" category lineup, but are very fun speakers.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1982-home/page08.jpg (http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1982-home/page08.jpg)

47161

hjames
08-21-2010, 07:33 PM
Money wise don't forget the L100's
L100s are popular and can bring good money on resale,
but people's opinions vary like mad on them.
I wasn't impressed with the pair I had - thought the L100T3 was a MUCH better speaker.

BMWCCA
08-22-2010, 07:16 AM
My lowly L7's are over achievers in my opinion. I really don't have anything to compare them to. And can not afford anything else. They sure sound good to me.Well, of course! It's hard to consider anything an "overachiever" that cost $2,000/pair when new ten-years ago. Same could be said for the 4412A. Since I have both I agree on their capability and qualities. And maybe they pose a great undiscovered value today, but when new, both were certainly priced where their performance should not have been a surprise. ;)

Akira
08-22-2010, 08:32 AM
4310 over achiever
4311 under achiever

To many these speakers are close to the same. Couldn't disagree more!

I love the unified coherent sound of the 4310's. With all their faults they sound like a balanced box, (even with the peaky upper mid) the key being you hear the speaker as a single image. The LE20 and 2105 mid had a near seamless transition that sounded like an extended range paper cone. Also remember the response was intentionally band limited to comply with the lacquer disk cutting technology of the time.

The 4311's are harsh and I am always aware of the individual components. The LE25 tweet though higher in response sticks out like a sore thumb and I hate the transition between mid and top. A dreadful box that probably outlasted and out sold all of the variants of it's original predecessor. It's timing was right with the rise of the small studio. If you had a Teac/Tascam 4/8 track back in the 70's they were the only game in town. And they were real JBL's you could afford at a time when JBL ruled the studio world.

SEAWOLF97
08-22-2010, 08:48 AM
Well, of course! It's hard to consider anything an "overachiever" that cost $2,000/pair when new ten-years ago.

L7's were new in 2000 ?? I auditioned a pair in 1991 and they had been out a while then ....you could be right, but hard to believe that they had a 10 year run ??

BMWCCA
08-22-2010, 09:50 AM
L7's were new in 2000 ?? I auditioned a pair in 1991 and they had been out a while then ....you could be right, but hard to believe that they had a 10 year run ??
Give or take a decade! Last price listed new on this site is probably around 1996. I suspect they may have sat around at Circuit City for a couple of years after that. Let's call it 14 years if that makes any difference to the point I was making. :)

The 4412As were still available new on-line as recently as probably five years ago though. Split the difference.

Fred Sanford
08-22-2010, 05:54 PM
L-46s are another two-way that impress to my ears, which I admit were raised on and biased toward that forward "west coast" sound (re:speakerlabfan).

A nice build with the 117H 8" woofer and 034 titanium dome tweeter. They don't challenge the aDs 710s in my "bookshelf" category lineup, but are very fun speakers.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1982-home/page08.jpg (http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1982-home/page08.jpg)

47161

The 034s aren't titanium. I will say that the L46s pack more of a punch than I expect from 8" drivers, but the 034s are lacking a bit to me. Nicely balanced overall, and I use 5 of them just about every day in my basement theater without complaint...if you factor in the price I paid for six of them, they're certainly over-achievers.

je

Hertzz
09-10-2010, 08:15 PM
I own a pair of L-65a and I might agree.

I like them. They sound nice. But if we were being very honest, the 077 is crossed over a bit too low in these systems. There's something a little inconsistent in the midrange, I think. Isn't the 077 crossed at about 6.5k in the L-65 and variants? It enters into its linear range round about 8k, correct?

BUT the L-65As I own are really nice speakers. I'm more than happy with them, especially for the $50 I paid. :D

But at the ~$1000 or even more they were fetching pre-recession? Not so sure.

Brad I agree with your thoughts on the L65 but I would take them over the L112 any day.