View Full Version : K2-9800se vs K2-9900
ronaltronics
03-15-2010, 12:26 PM
I have done an A-B comparison of the K2 model's in my store. I absolutely love the 9800se and what they are all about, But to my suprise when the 9900's arrived and I did the A-B the 9900's just outperformed the 9800's by quite a bit in all aspect's. Low frequency response was much nicer and with the 4inch midrange just seemed to handle the transients much nicer. I am now in the K2 9900's camp and believe at it's price it is just a brilliant loudspeaker. Jazz, classical,Rock, any type of music is just superb and the new cabinet design is amazing of course because it is a mini Everest basically.
Life is good when you have it like that. And you can say to customers that the S9900 is a minispeaker ;)
4313B
03-15-2010, 01:39 PM
I have done an A-B comparison of the K2 model's in my store. I absolutely love the 9800se and what they are all about, But to my suprise when the 9900's arrived and I did the A-B the 9900's just outperformed the 9800's by quite a bit in all aspect's. Low frequency response was much nicer and with the 4inch midrange just seemed to handle the transients much nicer. I am now in the K2 9900's camp and believe at it's price it is just a brilliant loudspeaker. Jazz, classical,Rock, any type of music is just superb and the new cabinet design is amazing of course because it is a mini Everest basically.Cool! Thanks for the post! :yes:
tom1040
03-15-2010, 03:42 PM
Nice...very nice.
ronaltronics
03-16-2010, 05:45 AM
Thanks Guys. I am very lucky to have sold JBL for 30 sum years beside my father who made me read the Altec pro book front to back and back to front when I was young. This was homework for me. I tell people I meet at audio shows everywhere that know JBL/ALtec that I was bounced on a D-130 instead of his knee when I was young. I recently did a factory tour in Northridge and met Greg which was a childhood dream come true for me. This is why I have Everest DD-6600 k2-9900 and k2-9800 and all Array products in my store. In my travels to Audio shows everywhere I see gear in the thousands of dollars and IMO nothing seems to sound like the above mentioned. Yes I may be a little bias to JBL product but I love Compression drivers.
cosmos
03-16-2010, 07:02 AM
This is why I have Everest DD-6600 k2-9900 and k2-9800 and all Array products in my store. In my travels to Audio shows everywhere I see gear in the thousands of dollars and IMO nothing seems to sound like the above mentioned. Yes I may be a little bias to JBL product but I love Compression drivers.
Where is your store? If it's close, I want to visit!
If inappropriate for the forum, please PM me.
Thanks Guys. I am very lucky to have sold JBL for 30 sum years beside my father who made me read the Altec pro book front to back and back to front when I was young. This was homework for me. I tell people I meet at audio shows everywhere that know JBL/ALtec that I was bounced on a D-130 instead of his knee when I was young. I recently did a factory tour in Northridge and meet Greg which was a childhood dream come true for me. This is why I have Everest DD-6600 k2-9900 and k2-9800 and all Array products in my store. In my travels to Audio shows everywhere I see gear in the thousands of dollars and IMO nothing seems to sound like the above mentioned. Yes I may be a little bias to JBL product but I love Compression drivers.
Sounds like you have set up my dreamstore ;D
Just out of curiosity, what electronics do you prefer with the reference JBL products? Personally I'm biased towards ARC, Mc and ML. Have you tried Quicksilver?
4313B
03-16-2010, 07:17 AM
I recently did a factory tour in Northridge and meet Greg which was a childhood dream come true for me.:applaud:
I really hope Greg knows what a positive influence he has had on so many people.
Where is your store? If it's close, I want to visit!That's a trip I'd make too.
Here's their Google Maps (http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?hl=en&source=hp&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=altronics&fb=1&gl=ca&hq=altronics&hnear=Ontario&cid=14313267583255325678) link from their website.
ronaltronics
03-16-2010, 08:52 AM
To the question on amplification, as I have mentioned I have used synthesis amplifiers which preformed well S-800 in specifics, Bryston with there new SST squared 28b's or 7B's is really unbelievable,And Krell Evolution series really controls the low frequency to a degree I have not heard in other amplifiers. I also have used a Copland tube pre amp and it was brilliant at it's price range.
The below brands you metioned mc, ml, arc I like to but the above is just what I prefer. I really gravitate to the 28b sst's alot they are really state of the art on a budget, at this level. If price is no object the Krell Evolution does get write up's with this saying. (Krell is the Master of Large transistor amplifiers) I tend to agree.
Mr. Widget
03-16-2010, 10:23 AM
That's a trip I'd make too.
Here's their Google Maps (http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?hl=en&source=hp&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=altronics&fb=1&gl=ca&hq=altronics&hnear=Ontario&cid=14313267583255325678) link from their website.No, not going to happen for me. :)
Widget
To the question on amplification, as I have mentioned I have used synthesis amplifiers which preformed well S-800 in specifics, Bryston with there new SST squared 28b's or 7B's is really unbelievable,And Krell Evolution series really controls the low frequency to a degree I have not heard in other amplifiers. I also have used a Copland tube pre amp and it was brilliant at it's price range.
The below brands you metioned mc, ml, arc I like to but the above is just what I prefer. I really gravitate to the 28b sst's alot they are really state of the art on a budget, at this level. If price is no object the Krell Evolution does get write up's with this saying. (Krell is the Master of Large transistor amplifiers) I tend to agree.
Krell Evo, really?
When i have listende to the Evo 302, controlled bass have absolutely not been one of the things i have noticed. I found it slow, and sluggish. Weird. I have tried it with Proac and Wilson. Also tried 2 KSA models. Same with them.
Anyway. Nice to hear about your experiences. :)
Will wisit your store if I ever go that area.
cosmos
03-16-2010, 01:13 PM
:applaud:
I really hope Greg knows what a positive influence he has had on so many people. He has definitely had a profound impact on my life. I love music and his loudspeaker designs have been a part of my life since I was fifteen years old.
I second that. I was selling JBL and loving their products while in High School working at Burstein Applebee in the former Southwyck Mall in the early 70s and elsewhere through the remaining 70s. What an opportunity for a high school/college student. While there I sold a pair of JBLs to Elton John while he was touring and had a short layover in the area... JBL in the 70s was the product virtually everyone wanted. The gold standard. It was the easiest sale there ever was because of the quality built in. Customers came in wanting to buy them. There wasn't perceived corner cutting. It was quality throughout and customers knew it. Pleasant memories... Fortunately, the JBL quality lives on, it's just difficult to find a dealer that has it..
Greg was obviously a major contributor. If I recall, and this is from a distant memory, I think one of Greg's first design responsibilities was the extension of the 43xx monitors past 4320. This would also extend to L300 and the re-design of L200 into L200B, which was a vast improvement. WTG Greg!
That's a trip I'd make too.
Here's their Google Maps (http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?hl=en&source=hp&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=altronics&fb=1&gl=ca&hq=altronics&hnear=Ontario&cid=14313267583255325678) link from their website.
I am in.. Toronto isn't that far... Damn shame though that a person has to go that far and cross country borders to lay eyes and ears on them. Alas, it is the way, I guess.
ronaltronics
03-16-2010, 08:11 PM
Your right the 1970's was JBL's Golden years I think they still have a few more actually. Wow Elton john that's a great story. I hope in the future they recognize there influence on so many people about there speaker sound and quality that the goodies continue to be made in Northridge. I remember When my father was selling the L-200 and the Paragon retailed for 4000.00 dollars CDN. Today it would be the Everest.
Let's see how much was Gas in 1972 compared to Today?
Greg was a big part of all of this and I will always think of him for all his amazing work.
ronaltronics
03-31-2010, 06:15 PM
Hi fi choice will be coming out with a review in the April 2010 issue on the Everest DD66000 I am wondering if anyone has seen a review of the K2-9900's in any kind of audio/HiFi magazines.
Thanks
jerry_rig
03-31-2010, 06:45 PM
Krell Evo, really?
When i have listende to the Evo 302, controlled bass have absolutely not been one of the things i have noticed. I found it slow, and sluggish. Weird. I have tried it with Proac and Wilson. Also tried 2 KSA models. Same with them.
I'm afraid something else must be at work in your auditions. I have owned several Krell power amps (I am currently using a KSA 300s for bass in a bi-amped setup) and can vouch for their incredible bass impact and control. Reviews and conversations with others confirm that very few amps can match the large Krells in the bass area.
Titanium Dome
03-31-2010, 11:26 PM
I was selling JBL and loving their products while in High School working at Burstein Applebee in the former Southwyck Mall in the early 70s and elsewhere through the remaining 70s.
I remember that store, even though I bought my first brand new JBLs from Woodlville Appliance over on the east side of Toledo. I thought that was a long trip from Monclova to Woodville, but it's nothing like the trip to Toronto.
Recently I got to hear the K2 S9900 and was really impressed. Since there were some S9800s right next to them, I asked if we could hook them up, but the gentleman said, "You don't want to do that. Trust me. Maybe if you'd asked me that first."
Of course, I've heard K2 S9800s, but it's been a while and audio memory is a fickle thing. However I have no doubt the gentleman knew exactly what he was talking about.
No, not going to happen for me. :)
Widget
Oh c'mon Widget, you know you and Mrs. Widget have a place to crash nearby! It's only about 15 minutes away from here.;)
ronaltronics
04-02-2010, 08:37 AM
Hi Jerry rig...
Just wired up a Krell 302 and Krell 222 pre amp, the source was a Esoteric X-03se with a Esoteric G-03 word clock.
Well the speakers JBL K2-9900's
All I can say is Absolutly Awesome and I have heard alot of systems.
Keep in mind this is the entry level Krell Evolution.
jerry_rig
04-02-2010, 03:58 PM
Hi Jerry rig...
Just wired up a Krell 302 and Krell 222 pre amp, the source was a Esoteric X-03se with a Esoteric G-03 word clock.
Well the speakers JBL K2-9900's
All I can say is Absolutly Awesome and I have heard alot of systems.
Keep in mind this is the entry level Krell Evolution.
That sounds like a great combination! I'm seeing used 402s going for around $8K. Maybe once they drop a bit more. :)
ronaltronics
04-07-2010, 01:47 PM
:barf:Hi Jerry rig....
Instead of a 402 krell you should hold out for a set of Krell evolution mono blocks, preferably 600's. I use these amplifiers with the 202 krell pre amp on my DD66000 JbL"S wired in CAST with a 525 source..
Life Changing.
When comaring the S9900 to the S9800 people always comment how much better they are. The differences between these two speakers are sparse:
1- smaller cabs, but almost the same weight (-> stiffer)
2- longer woofer voice coil (-> lower power compression)
3- super tweeter evolution (-> extension improved for the bats)
4- bigger compression driver, with all the 476 features, but with Mg
5- higher crossover point for the super tweeter (10khz -> 15khz)
6- higher crossover point for the compression driver (800hz -> 900hz)
7- steeper slopes for the woofer/compression driver (-> less stress and excursion for the CD)
8- somewhat wider dispersion for the horn (not sure about that one)
In your opinion, what in those differences plays the most important role?
I am betting on a combination of 7 and 4, in that order.
The electrical 800Hz HP slope of the S9800 was only -6dB/oct !
Isn't the horn geometry also slightly changed?
If so i would say that the combination of that, and the new Mg driver.
looking at the S9800 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=121935&postcount=5) and S9900 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=252245&postcount=11) (lower graph) acoustical crossover curves for the 800Hz/900Hz HP, the S9800 looks like a -24db/oct, whereas the S9900 looks like a -36dB/oct (similar to the everest 2). Both are -6db at the crossover point (LR).
Now looking at the S9800 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=121939&postcount=9) and S9900 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=252245&postcount=11) (upper graph) electrical slopes for the same crossover, the S9800 looks like a -6db/oct, whereas the S9900 looks like a -18dB/oct. The shematics as well as the biamp target curves seem to confirm this.
So the acoustical slopes are obtained by adding the electrical slopes to the natural rolloff of the horns (-18dB/oct).
S9800: 6+18=24
S9900: 18+18=36
But only the electrical crossover can prevent the CD to suffer from excursion in the low frequencies. The excursion will quadruple every time the frequency is halved. So a -12dB/oct electrical slope will produce a constant excursion at low and high frequencies.
At -6db/oct (S9800) the CD excursion will be higher at 100Hz than at 1000Hz, whereas it will be lower at -18dB/oct (S9900).
I bet that plays a big part in the "efforless" sensation of the S9900.
4313B
04-10-2010, 07:45 AM
The network and the four-inch compression driver seal the deal.
ronaltronics
04-11-2010, 05:40 AM
Hello Gentlemen,
Thank you for your very valuable info on the evaluation of these two speakers. Yes your specs are bang on and yes it is the larger midrange driver and X-over are the differences. If you ever had the chance to compare the two from my experience the larger midrange makes the most difference but the three inch driver in the 9800's is still amazing because beryllium still seems to make this loudspeaker shine.
If you really think about it they are both Amazing and I state Amazing because what other speakers out there on the market can even come close IMO to there type of technology. I know no other consumer loudspeakers with there attributes.
Has anyone ever had a chance to hear either pair?
Mr. Widget
04-11-2010, 10:45 AM
Has anyone ever had a chance to hear either pair?I've heard the K2-S9800 a few times... I've never actually liked it. I have heard the Everest II a couple of times and have been very impressed with it. In fact I much prefer the much less expensive 1400 Array to the 9800.
From all accounts the K2-S9900 is much closer to the Everest than the 9800... and I am glad to hear it.
Widget
JBLAddict
04-11-2010, 02:44 PM
Has anyone ever had a chance to hear either pair?
was able to hear both the E2 for ~2 hrs, then the 9900 for about an hour immediately after, in Japan last August.
The E2 was in a phenomenal demo room, very well treated, with 80K in electronics hooked to it, including a Dartzeel (http://www.dartzeel.com/) amp + preamp, Luxman SACD, and some tube amps for the high end that I could not make out by brand. The employee left me in the closed room, alone, to put on whatever discs I wanted, at any volume I wanted, so I obliged to the fullest. The experience cannot be described in words, other than I contemplated chaining myself to a radiator:D
The 9900 was in an open untreated room, kind of smacked in the middle, though hooked to a bunch of McIntosh gear. In that setup the sound was pretty diffuse, though of the same cleanliness as the E2. There was a clerk in the room busily doing paperwork, so I only played them at very low volume and therefore did not get anywhere near the blissful euphoria the E2 provided. I could feel that the potential was there but honestly did not get the time to fully explore it....
I've heard the K2-S9800 a few times... I've never actually liked it. I have heard the Everest II a couple of times and have been very impressed with it. In fact I much prefer the much less expensive 1400 Array to the 9800.
From all accounts the K2-S9900 is much closer to the Everest than the 9800... and I am glad to hear it.
Widget
The Array 1400 HP slope looks like a 30dB/oct: 12dB from the network + 18dB from the horn
Has anyone ever had a chance to hear either pair?
I only heard the S9800, but here in France a lot of people did hear both pairs.
I think member Caladois did.
On a french forum some membrers had the chance to compare the S9800, S9900 and everst 2 in good conditions, and they all reported a net improvement between the S9800 and S9900.
Ian Mackenzie
04-12-2010, 04:04 AM
I've heard the K2-S9800 a few times... I've never actually liked it. In fact I much prefer the much less expensive 1400 Array to the 9800.
Widget
I guess that is where you and Giskard must have parted company.:eek:
In fact I much prefer the much less expensive 1400 Array to the 9800.
This might be the very first time i have to strongly disagree with Widget. I have listened quite a lot to both the 1400's and the S9800, and to me the S9800 is far superior. The Al driver in the 1400 just don't sound as clean and realistic as the Be in the K2's. I also think the 1500Al has a more articulate sound than the Le14's
However, both are mindbendingly good. Considering the "low" pricetag of the Array, i would agree that they are more value for the money you pay.
Ian Mackenzie
04-12-2010, 04:13 AM
I don't think he ever liked the 9800 horn.
I don't think he ever liked the 9800 horn.
I know he prefers the TAD's :)
Personally i love mye H9800 clones
Mr. Widget
04-12-2010, 07:43 AM
This might be the very first time i have to strongly disagree with Widget. I have listened quite a lot to both the 1400's and the S9800, and to me the S9800 is far superior. The Al driver in the 1400 just don't sound as clean and realistic as the Be in the K2's. I also think the 1500Al has a more articulate sound than the Le14's.There could be other factors at play. I have not had the opportunity to directly compare the K2-S9800 and the 1400 Array.
I agree that I would prefer the 1400 Array with Be. I also agree that the 1500AL woofer is a marvel and is more articulate than the LE14H-(whichever it is)... but when I have heard the 1400 Arrays, I have been very pleased and when I have heard the 9800 I have not.
Widget
Titanium Dome
04-12-2010, 08:38 AM
The K2 S9800 was never quite everything I hoped it would be. If this statement makes sense: I wanted to like it more than I liked it. But when I have to try to like something, then I almost never feel easy about it.
Because it was the highest JBL the first few times I heard it, it made me decide I still was not ready for a super high-end horn system. While I certainly enjoy my S/2600 pair, I do not consider them super high-end, and their character is quite different from most horns anyway.
It was not until I heard the Project Arrays that I thought I might reconsider horns one more time, and upon hearing the SAM1HF and SAM2LF together (with a sub of course), I knew I liked it more than I thought I could and that it would be an easy fit for me and an actual improvement over what I had. I liked it better than the K2 S9800.
Since then, I have heard both Everest II and K2 S9900, and they are much easier to like than the the S9800. Of course, I cannot buy them having just purchased the Synthesis One Array, but one day I will have to choose if I will get the K2 S9900 or the Revel Ultima@ Salon. I don't think the Everest II will ever come my way, though I will keep the chance open. :D
4313B
04-12-2010, 09:06 AM
I don't think he ever liked the 9800 horn.It's a nice horn. I don't really see how one can go wrong with any of the K2 or E2 horns. The H4338 (vertical orientation, not horizontal as in the 4338 Studio Monitor) and the 1400 Array/SAM1HF horns image better than the K2 or E2 horns if imaging is your primary requirement. Of all the horns I'd have to pick the 1400 Array/SAM1HF as the most user friendly. I never really cared for the visual impact of the K2-S5800/SK2-1000/S4800 horn. The S4600/4429 horn is pretty nice but, as far as I know, it won't accept the Be drivers. I'm going to try the H9800 horn vertical just for grins at some point. G.T. suggested I try the 1500AL in a small box and I'll do that too. Something like 2.5 cu ft net tuned to 35 Hz.
Robh3606
04-12-2010, 10:13 AM
1400 Array/SAM1HF horns image better than the K2 or E2 horns if imaging is your primary requirement.
They certainly do image well! Depending on the material it can take you by surprise the amount of depth and space they can project.
Rob:)
I don't think the Everest II will ever come my way, though I will keep the chance open. :D
The lottery is always an option. ;)
JBLAddict
04-12-2010, 10:07 PM
but one day I will have to choose if I will get the K2 S9900 or the Revel Ultima@ Salon. :D
if today was that day, through some miracle, which would you choose, honestly?
Titanium Dome
04-12-2010, 10:38 PM
if today was that day, through some miracle, which would you choose, honestly?
For my house in the rooms I now have, Revel Ultima2 Salon.
Remember my old descriptor? "Inverted Dome Metalhead." That pretty much tells the tale. :)
ronaltronics
04-17-2010, 05:48 PM
With all these reviews of JBL going on lately it would just seal the deal if we could get a review on the K2-9900's.
I think it would be three for three,what do you guys think?
Stereophile April 2010 issue/
Array 1400's "will be highly recommended in there mag"
HiFi choice April 2010 Issue/
Everest DD66000 "Editors choice in the mag".
??????????????????????????? mag.
Jbl K2-9900's coming soon I hope.:bouncy:
Brian DK
06-06-2010, 12:37 PM
This is why I have Everest DD-6600 k2-9900 and k2-9800 and all Array products in my store.
Ronaltronics..
Nice :)
I am a happy ovner af K2S9800, and want to upgrade.
Can you tell me the sonic difference in DD66000 and S9900.?
Is the DD66000 worth the ekstra money.??
Titanium Dome
09-07-2010, 07:28 AM
Since then, I have heard both Everest II and K2 S9900, and they are much easier to like than the the S9800. Of course, I cannot buy them having just purchased the Synthesis One Array, but one day I will have to choose if I will get the K2 S9900 or the Revel Ultima2 Salon. I don't think the Everest II will ever come my way, though I will keep the chance open. :D
if today was that day, through some miracle, which would you choose, honestly?
For my house in the rooms I now have, Revel Ultima2 Salon.
Remember my old descriptor? "Inverted Dome Metalhead." That pretty much tells the tale. :)
And of course I was right that I'd have to make the choice. I was just wrong about which I'd choose.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?24033-New-K2-S9900&p=294884&viewfull=1#post294884
Looks like I need to try one of those Krell amps.
jblsound
09-09-2010, 12:44 PM
And of course I was right that I'd have to make the choice. I was just wrong about which I'd choose.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?24033-New-K2-S9900&p=294884&viewfull=1#post294884
Looks like I need to try one of those Krell amps.
I noticed Widget had a few Halo amps and/or processors in his van, I'd think about trying those. I know the Krell are considered much more high end, but the Halo series are fine electronics. I've got the Halo P7 7-channel analogue pre-amp.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.