100 kg bass compression driver

[Jan Daugaard]

Unlike JBL, the Japanese company ALE Acoustics offers compression drivers for the whole frequency range; see http://www.tachyon.co.jp/ale/ale.html

Drawback: The listening room has to be rebuilt to accommodate the bass compression drivers.

[lucorient]

!!!! :)))

P160 Low Frequency Driver

Specifications
Bandwidth: 15 to 1KHz, Recommended Crossover: depend on suitable horn, Impedance: 8/16 Ohm, Maxmum Input: 70W, Output Sound Pressure Level: 110dB, Throat Diameter : 130mm, Diaphragm: Titanium, Edge is FRP, Magnetic Density: 23,000 gauss, Dimension: 250mm diameter x 420mm hight, Suitable Horn: must be design to fit the listening room, Weight: 100kg, Note: using alnico and permendule magnet, Made in Japan




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.tachyon.co.jp/%7Esichoya2/ale/products/P160.jpg

[4313B]

Hey! Those are pretty funny :p
Thanks for the link :)

[lucorient]

Dimension: 250 mm diameter x 420 mm hight, (and 100 Kg ).... :))

[4313B]

This picture is interesting. One can see those big P160's bolted to those huge horns in the back? Or are those the next size down?

Of course the red pallet not matching the bare brown pallet ruins the whole thing for me :p

[scott fitlin]

their basshorn woofers look interesting. Similar in shape to Altec!

[Alex Lancaster]

Right!, that pallet just CLASHES with the tasteful Louie XV-Jules Verne ambience.

Alex.

[scott fitlin]

Need some field coil woofers?

[locanti]

I just can't see Captain NEMO in the picture.Maybe is he under the woofer horn,crushed by the driver when he screwed it to the horn?

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by Jan Daugaard
Unlike JBL, the Japanese company ALE Acoustics offers compression drivers for the whole frequency range; see http://www.tachyon.co.jp/ale/ale.html

Drawback: The listening room has to be rebuilt to accommodate the bass compression drivers.

Well as I mentioned before about this room that Giskard so aptly pointed out as having clashing pallets, the room should be rebuilt with audio in mind, or better yet save the history and build a ground up audio room else where on the property.:D

Beyond that to me the one major drawback to these speakers is the $60,000 for the pair of bass drivers and the $35,000 for the pair of bass horns.

Spending $100,000 (I'm including delivery) for the 30HZ to 100Hz portion of your speakers does seam a bit extreme to me. For that kind of money you could have a professionally designed and custom installed pair of straight shot bass horns along the lines of Burwen's.

http://www.scrounge.org/speak/burwen/

Sure Burwen's system could use some updating, but for $100,000 you have a little room to work!:rotfl:

[kenratboy]

From what I know, a cube/rectangle or whatever is the WORST shape for a audio room.

[4343b]

Hello,

*vintageaudiosales* I found a few minutes after posting my thread, thx @ guido (..Gruß nach nebenan) - where in germany do you live?

I sent an email to vintageaudio, now I am waiting for reply..

I got an offer from an ebay member here in germany, too, but I am afraid these drivers may be used for PA or DISCO/Band like the other speakers he sells.

Has anyone a tip how I can evaluate the technical condition of a driver? I read a posting about material-fatige of diaphragm here.

Have a nice day,

Andreas

[paragon]

Wow, impressive !
Look this powerfull mags. Very,very impressive.
Whats the price in USD ?

Eckhard

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well if he can afford that this is probably his junk room, on the other than this maybe the only room.

It would be interesting to hear either way.

Ian:jawdrop:

[Marty]

[QUOTE=Mr. Widget]Well
Spending $100,000 (I'm including delivery) for the 30HZ to 100Hz
http://www.scrounge.org/speak/burwen/

[/QU
OTE]

I don't know if this will win you over or not, but delivery is free if you take advantage
of this offer in the next 30 minutes.

[Marty]

this is probably his junk room.. on the other hand this maybe the only room.


Ian:jawdrop:

Or perhaps it's a redecorated Mobile Home somewhere in Tennessee ?

[louped garouv]

their basshorn woofers look interesting. Similar in shape to Altec!

reminds me of those exemplar boxes....

[Mr. Widget]

[QUOTE=Mr. Widget]Well
Spending $100,000 (I'm including delivery) for the 30HZ to 100Hz
http://www.scrounge.org/speak/burwen/

[/QU
OTE]

I don't know if this will win you over or not, but delivery is free if you take advantage
of this offer in the next 30 minutes.

Damn! I am on board... will they take my somewhat flexible check?:applaud:

Widget

[Steve Schell]

This ALE (Audio Laboratory Endo) stuff looks pretty strange, but I believe that the builders are true believers who are pursuing the absolute best sound possible, the best way they know how.

I heard a pair of the midbass horns (the ones on the pallets) about two years ago at the home of Kevin Brooks, ALE's U.S. distributor. I have never heard such clear, clean, dynamic, uncolored bass in my life, and I have been building bass horns for years. We have all had listening experiences like this- where you are impressed out of your socks and are forced to reevaluate your assumptions and raise your expectations. Since then I have discussed that listening experience with other audiofreaks who have heard the ALEs, and their reviews have been similar raves. As one fellow put it, "You went to Kevin's and got messed up."

It does all make sense in a way. The mythical ideal driver has infinitely low mass, a perfectly rigid piston, and an infinitely strong motor to force the piston to follow the signal exactly. A true compression driver comes much closer to this ideal than a paper cone woofer. The Bell Labs engineers who designed the Fletcher System in 1933 chose this solution with their outrageous, enormous 20" aluminum diaphragm bass compression driver. I think it is sad in a way that the team that designed the Shearer Horn System a couple of years later chose Jim Lansing's paper cone 15" woofers- and most of you know how I feel about Jim Lansing! Anyway, 15" woofers became the standard and all thoughts of using compression drivers for bass disappeared until these tiny Japanese companies began springing up in the 1970s.

My partner Rich and I have been building prototype bass compression drivers and horns for the past few months. We have been pleased with the results so far, but I'm not sure we have quite equaled the ALEs yet. I guess it's about time to go take another listen to them.

[tomt]

The Bell Labs engineers who designed the Fletcher System in 1933 chose this solution with their outrageous, enormous 20" aluminum diaphragm bass compression driver.
`````````````````````````````````
steve,

where could more info(and maybe pictures) of this driver be found?

(besides the'fletcher.jpg')
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````
seiya goto can fix your 555s,
http://www.hinocatv.ne.jp/~shinichi/

http://aca.gr/pop_goto_ale.htm

[Thom]

Stereo knocked most bass horn purists for a loop they never recovered from. With today's surround sound, anyone who can afford the real estate can probably pay whatever the tariff is if you can sell it, but for 16hz you may have zoning problems. You'll probably have to find a buyer with an attitude like Ellison's.

[Loud & Clear]

This ALE (Audio Laboratory Endo) I heard a pair of the midbass horns (the ones on the pallets) about two years ago at the home of Kevin Brooks, ALE's U.S. distributor. I have never heard such clear, clean, dynamic, uncolored bass in my life, and I have been building bass horns for years. We have all had listening experiences like this- where you are impressed out of your socks and are forced to reevaluate your assumptions and raise your expectations. Since then I have discussed that listening experience with other audiofreaks who have heard the ALEs, and their reviews have been similar raves. As one fellow put it, "You went to Kevin's and got messed up."I know Kevin, He lives not 2 hours from me. I talk with him once in a while. Maybe I need to hear these horns? :)

[Steve Schell]

Thanks for the thread bump, Thom. It was fun to read through it again.

Builders of ambitious bass horns have always been few and far between. I think part of the reason for this is that relatively few audio enthusiasts have been exposed to them and experienced their excellent performance. Factoring in the space requirements and low Spouse Acceptance Factor assures that they will never become mainstream. This is okay, as they remain available to those who wish to pursue them.

Tomt, I'm sorry I did not see your question when you posted it. The Fletcher bass driver can most easily be studied by reading A.L Thuras' U.S. Patent #2,037,185. Also worthy of study are #1,970,926 (bass horn), #2,037,187 (compression driver) and #1,992,268 (multicellular horn). These patents as a group are simply mind blowing and essential reading for students of loudspeaker history. Patents are easy to access using Google's new patents search page:

http://www.google.com/patents

The Audio Engineering Society has made a PDF available of the original Bell Labs paper on their 1933 Auditory Perspective experiments, for which the development of the Fletcher Horn System was created. This important and fascinating paper can be found here:

http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/bell.labs/auditoryperspective.pdf

Loud & Clear, I highly recommend a visit to Kevin's to hear his ALE system. I haven't been the same since I was there.

[Hoerninger]

... where could more info(and maybe pictures) of this driver be found?

(besides the'fletcher.jpg')

A picture of the Fletcher system you can find here (post 7):
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11909&highlight=xxl
The original is owned by Bell Labs.

The German magazin "FACHBLATT Musikmagazin" published a series about horn speakers and the history of JBL in the eightieth (last century). They got a negativ by Bell.
I scanned the picture from the magazin, you will hardly find a sharper picture - enjoy.
___________
Peter

[Steve Schell]

Hoerninger, thank you for the picture of the Fletcher Horn System you posted in the linked thread. I hadn't seen this one before. Would you be so kind as to provide a translation of the text below the picture?

[Hoerninger]

... a translation of the text below the picture?



Das Foto zeigt Mr.R.LINSLEY SHEPARD vor einem jener gigantischen Lautsprecher, die z.B. 1940 für Stereo-Experimente von der Philadelphia Academy of Music benutzt wurden. Dieser Lautsprecher ist vielleicht die wichtigste "Root" moderner P.A.'s (Courtesy of Bell Laboratories).
This foto shows Mr.R.Linsley Shepard in front of one of those giant speakers, which had been used for example 1940 for stereo experiments by the Philadelphia Academy of Music. This speaker is perhaps the most important "root" of modern PAs (Courtesy of Bell Laboratories).
____________
Regards
Peter

PS: The attached foto shows Mr.Douglas Shearer, Chief of Sound Department of MGM (Western Electric)

[Tom Brennan]

Shearer had a big clout at MGM, his sister was married to Thalberg.

[Steve Schell]

Hoerninger, thank you very much for the translation and for the picture of Douglas Shearer.

Tom, I did a little Googling on Shearer and found out that he originally came to CA in 1925 to visit his sisters. Norma introduced him to Louis B. Mayer and they began to talk about sound in film. He went on to have a 40+ year career at MGM and won more than a dozen Oscars. One summary of his life is located here:

http://theoscarsite.com/whoswho/shearer_d.htm

[YGoh]

Hello, I'm new here....

1.) Does anybody know how to get a hold of Kevin Brooks of ALE compression driver distributor?

2.) If the bass horn is long and have large mouth diameter, don't we have serious time delay?

Thank you

[readswift]

I just can't see Captain NEMO in the picture.Maybe is he under the woofer horn,crushed by the driver when he screwed it to the horn?

LOOOOOOOOOL

[Steve Schell]

YGoh, Kevin Brooks can be reached at: brooksaudio*(at)*hotmail.com (remove the stars and parentheses, use @).

Yes, it is a cruel twist of fate that these otherwise most perfect reproduction devices have long arrival time delays. Some choose to ignore and tolerate them, while others correct them with digital devices. The DEQX unit does the best job I know of correcting the errors with the least degradation of the signal.

[YGoh]

....Yes, it is a cruel twist of fate that these otherwise most perfect reproduction devices have long arrival time delays. Some choose to ignore and tolerate them, while others correct them with digital devices. The DEQX unit does the best job I know of correcting the errors with the least degradation of the signal.Thanks Steve....

1.) Can a digital delay in one of the channel degrade the sound?

2.) Do you still makes horn for different?

2a.) If so, then which shape do you think gives the least harmonic distortion? it's circular or the rectangular cross section?

Thank you

[rs237]

Hello Steve,

The problem is already at a relatively small horn like my Hartsfield. The woofer has a delay to the Mid-Horn of 3,56 mSec .

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=200924#post200924

post 74.

My question, there is no passive crossover with a delay for the midrange and tweeters? I know only the Time Align crossover from Urei, but delayed the bass.

regards
juergen

[YGoh]

Hello Steve,

The problem is already at a relatively small horn like my Hartsfield. The woofer has a delay to the Mid-Horn of 3,56 mSec .

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=200924#post200924

post 74.

My question, there is no passive crossover with a delay for the midrange and tweeters? I know only the Time Align crossover from Urei, but delayed the bass.

regards
juergenHow about using digital crossover delay with high sampling rates, such as >192kHz?

[rs237]

Hello YGo,

Certainly not cheap. Furthermore, I would Hartsfield with one (not three) tube amplifiers driven.

regards
juergen

[JBL 4645]

The large horn looks like a JBL 2392.

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/components/23929394.htm (http://www.jblpro.com/pages/components/23929394.htm)


http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1078&stc=1&d=1065878841

[stephane RAME]

ALE 160D

[YGoh]

ALE 160D
Is this your system?

Are these all GOTO or ALE system?

[stephane RAME]

No, it's not my system, see links for my system:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11750
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19282
http://srsystemaudio.blogspot.com/

See another links to the original images:

http://www.melaudia.net/ecouteSud04JYK-1.php
http://www.aca.gr/pop_jyk.htm

Stéphane :)

[stephane RAME]

http://www.revue-audiophile.fr/index.php?q=ecoute-jyk
http://www.stereotimes.com/showreportces05page2.shtml

[YGoh]

YGoh, Kevin Brooks can be reached at: brooksaudio*(at)*hotmail.com (remove the stars and parentheses, use @)........Thank you Steve. I have some questions about your driver as I need 5 bass horn for my front channels. You can email at yg*at*gmgav.com

[stephane RAME]

http://www.aca.gr/pop_goto_ale.htm

[stephane RAME]

For ALE
http://ns.tachyon.co.jp/~sichoya2/ale/index.html
http://www.kbrooksaudio.net/ale.html

For GOTO
http://www.goto-unit.com/index.html
http://www18.ocn.ne.jp/~tnk/page005.html

[KCCT82]

Hey guys, I just found this site recently. If Kevin Brooks is ALE's U.S. dealer, then who is this...?

http://www.aleacousticsusa.com/catalog/

[jcrobso]

It is easy to see why most bass horns are folded, even then they are large. John

[tomt]

http://new.audiogon.com/listings/450020 (http://new.audiogon.com/listings/450020)







Of course the red pallet not matching the bare brown pallet ruins the whole thing for me




no doubt comparing the (side by side) sonic attributes of both ...


'a work in progress'