CROWN PSL-2 (Straight Line Two) [Archive]

ken.pugmire

03-01-2010, 02:13 AM

I often hear this Pre on a local pair of L5's and am always blown away by the transparency. From what I understand this is basically a "CD Era" version of the classic SL-2.

Id love to hear some opinions on it and how good you guys think it is.

After Hearing a $12,000 flagship preamp, I cannot help but think thats OVER THE TOP! And the difference in sound was character not clarity

Im in the process of acquiring a pair of L7's and want a really clean pre-amp. I listen to Jazz, Rock and Hip Hop.

Is it me or is this kit really THAT GOOD???

jbl_daddy

03-01-2010, 08:35 AM

I had one along with the older IC150, not a bad unit. I sold both of mine, still have three of the PS200's in boxes that were part of that system. Good clean gear.

scott fitlin

03-01-2010, 02:23 PM

I have a Straight Line 2, and a Crown IC150. The Straight Line 2 is dead clean, and yes, it is that good.

Additionally, I like the line of Crown amps from this time as well. The Power Line series, basically Crowns attempt at the consumer market, but good sounding, nonetheless.

Out of curiosity, could you describe the differences between the Crowns sound and the $12,000 preamp?

ken.pugmire

03-01-2010, 04:09 PM

I used to hang out at a very high end HiFi shop locally. They were running a Classe CP-700 on B&W 800D and Bryston 4BSST2. WOW was it nice and punchy and clean. So was the Crown. To be frank the crown had less sonic signature. The Classe is FINE unit and probably has its place. To be fair I head the Classe on Bowers and Wilkins and the Crown on JBL.

For me id only use the Crown, I personally like a mastering studio sound. The Classe just feels TO REFINED to etched and sinister. Its not flat, and its doing a lot to the sound although pleasant and beats the hell out of Rotel.

This is one piece of vintage kit im willing to shell 4-500 for!

scott fitlin

03-01-2010, 04:39 PM

I HEAR THAT!

I'm a Crown man, myself, :D

midlife

03-02-2010, 07:32 AM

I have a SL-2 and like it very much. Also have a IC-150 and although pretty good it's not as transparent as the SL.

scott fitlin

03-02-2010, 12:41 PM

I have a SL-2 and like it very much. Also have a IC-150 and although pretty good it's not as transparent as the SL.Yeah, the SL-2 was great.

There's something about Crown!

ken.pugmire

03-03-2010, 12:59 AM

I'm about to acquire an APT Holman Preamplifier. Any opinions on these? and any other SUPER CLEAN, dynamic preamp recommendations for under $500. Going to be used on L7's.

BMWCCA

03-03-2010, 06:36 PM

I'll take the bait. By now many here will expect me to make my normal recommendation...so I will.

Soundcraftsmen Pro-Control Four pre-amp and Pro-EQ 44 will both be less than your budget amount. When Opie tried the EQ on his 250Ti projects we heard some HF trash with our ears to the 044Ti's. I don't hear it in the 4345s but then I don't press my ears to the 2405s and I run the Pro-Control in "direct" mode for anything beyond low-level listening where the EQ provides my loudness contouring.

:dont-know

If I had the money, I'd have the Crown, too. And I will, someday.

BMWCCA

02-03-2023, 08:51 PM

Pretty funny that I was playing the new-to-me Steely Dan "Two Against Nature" SACD on the Oppo through a PSL2, JBL/Urei 6260 and JBL L5s and decided to look up the specs on the Loudness switch on the PSL2 and came upon this thread—13-years later!

I now own both a PSL2 and an SL2 after saying above that I would own one "someday". Every component in this small system is simply superb. I normally run the Oppo to an Emotiva XDR-2 but with the SACD I run it direct to the CD input on the PSL2 and I'm enjoying the hell out of the sound of my all-time favorite Steely Dan album on what has to be the best medium for it. I use this system mostly for TV but my only choice right now for SACD listening is either here or in my basement audio workshop.

I just can't say enough about how nice this PSL2 is, or how I love the sound of the L5 through the JBL/Urei amp. Sure I can get more bass out of my L7s (or 4345) but the L5 is simply so "natural" in its sound that I'm glad I own two-pair because I'd never want to not have at least one! In the right room with the right front end they are very hard to beat for nearly any money.

Makes me sad to re-read some of Scotty's love for Crown as well as other Crown fans on LH who are no longer with us. I'm sure I'll be one of those someday but owning Crown since 1971 has helped me enjoy music in a way most high-schoolers never get to experience, and as I enter my eighth-decade of life, I realize I've been listening to JBLs in my home for all but three of my 70 years!

Here's to all of those no longer with us. :cheers:

DerekTheGreat

02-06-2023, 10:15 AM

Hey, hey, wait up! I've become a Crown fan by happenstance. I've tried quite a few of their amps; K1, K2, MA-2402, a PS-200 and now a CE-4000. Haven't tried the 4000 yet, but the way it was packaged doesn't have me giddy with excitement.. I love the PS-200, haven't tried it for low bass duties, but it is covering everything from 90hz and up on my 813C's. I might just prefer it over everything else I've heard in it's stead. Considering it's price tag compared to the others, I'm blown away. Want to try a PS-400, it's about twice the power and offers a better slew rate, might just offer an improvement in sound, but it seems I can't get one for less than $700 shipped.

How come nobody talks about the SL-1? I bought one for about $100 and it has blown everything I've heard before away. So we're talking about it trash canning a Marantz 3600, Dynaco PAT-5 and an Adcom GFP-555. The transparency, clarity and detail it brings are absolutely fabulous. Steely Dan and other well mastered pieces are just incredible to listen to through it. Bass and Treble controls? Meh, an Audio Control C 101 series III through a tape loop is what one needs should they desire EQ. Anyway, I'm not sure an SL-2 would give me anything the SL-1 doesn't and I like the apperance of the SL-1 better. By chance, does anyone know how long Crown made SL-1's? Seems like they first dropped in 1979, but my silver faced unit seems like it could've been made in the mid 80's.

Epplerd

02-07-2023, 02:30 AM

Hey, hey, wait up! I've become a Crown fan by happenstance. I've tried quite a few of their amps; K1, K2, MA-2402, a PS-200 and now a CE-4000. Haven't tried the 4000 yet, but the way it was packaged doesn't have me giddy with excitement.. I love the PS-200, haven't tried it for low bass duties, but it is covering everything from 90hz and up on my 813C's. I might just prefer it over everything else I've heard in it's stead. Considering it's price tag compared to the others, I'm blown away. Want to try a PS-400, it's about twice the power and offers a better slew rate, might just offer an improvement in sound, but it seems I can't get one for less than $700 shipped.How come nobody talks about the SL-1? I bought one for about $100 and it has blown everything I've heard before away. So we're talking about it trash canning a Marantz 3600, Dynaco PAT-5 and an Adcom GFP-555. The transparency, clarity and detail it brings are absolutely fabulous. Steely Dan and other well mastered pieces are just incredible to listen to through it. Bass and Treble controls? Meh, an Audio Control C 101 series III through a tape loop is what one needs should they desire EQ. Anyway, I'm not sure an SL-2 would give me anything the SL-1 doesn't and I like the apperance of the SL-1 better. By chance, does anyone know how long Crown made SL-1's? Seems like they first dropped in 1979, but my silver faced unit seems like it could've been made in the mid 80's.I have used Crown DC300's and found them a very clean sounding power amplifier. They have driven many different types of speaker loads successfully, from JBL4430's to Quad Electrostatics and Apogee Diva's. Crown have now moved to 'digital' power amps, I haven't had an opportunity to hear their latest offerings and wondered if any on the forum have compared the legacy products with Crown's latest?

DerekTheGreat

02-07-2023, 05:07 AM

I have heard good things about the DC300, the A variant, I think.

As for how the amplifiers sound? I prefer the Crown PS-200 to the MA-2402, K1 and K2 on full range duty. MA-2402 had the K series beat for full range in my opinion, but I did find the MA-2402 to be a bit grainy on the highs and mids and the fans were LOUD. The grainy-ness worked for rock & roll though.. However, I didn't really care for the K1 or the K2 on high detail either, a too little sterile and shrill on my ears at high levels. Didn't care for the MA-2402 on bass, not very tight down low. For subwoofer duty, you cannot or will be very hard pressed to beat a K series, I absolutely love them for that task. Tight and authoritative. I listened to the CE-4000 last night, and it is pretty darn good on subwoofer duty, I'd put it just behind the K amps. Tight bass down below 70hz, (Maybe not as tight as a K..) but they sound a bit bloated above that. I no longer have a functioning K amp to test it against though. Fan is the quietest I've heard so far, but it still noticeable. But so long as you've got music playing low you won't hear it. Verdict is still out as to whether or not I can live with the noise. If one reads closely, it appears as if I'm starting to miss my K amps..

Anyone know anything about the Crown Straight Line One???

Odd

02-07-2023, 06:22 AM

I use CROWN POWER LINE FOUR for bass on my DIY 43xx

Very good bass amplifier.

BMWCCA

02-07-2023, 06:34 AM

I have heard good things about the DC300, the A variant, I think.

Anyone know anything about the Crown Straight Line One???Since the SL1 was Crown's first foray into "consumer" electronics, I suppose its run was cut short from lack of acceptance due to limited capabilities. It has often been said the perfect pre-amp was a "straight line", Crown took it literally and offered little more than a volume control on the SL1. If that's all anyone needed they could simply plug their tape deck directly into their Crown amp with its input attenuators and not even need a pre-amp. Sales obviously didn't take off until the SL2 arrived with better aesthetics and more controls for inputs, etc. That's my theory. Very little written about the SL1's performance, so let's assume the guts were the same as the SL2—or just a "straight line".

I bought my first D150 (pre-A) around 1971. Still have it today. I've added a couple of D150A-II and DC300A-II to the collection, using them for years as my amps of choice. I've often mentioned how my favorite hi-fi shop while growing up in St. Louis, first turned me on to Crown as an affordable alternative to their main featured brand McIntosh. When I was looking to replace my Fisher SA1000 amp, they gave me a D60, D150, and DC300 to take home and try out. I loved them all, hooked to my Mac C20 (which I still own), and settled on the mid-priced D150, since I was still in high-school at the time. Within the past decades I gradually replaced the D-Series amps with PS-200 and PS-400, which are still running in my main system today. I much prefer them to the Ds for their turn-on delay and they just sound better to me. I still have all the Crowns, including several D75A and D45s, all latest versions. But my new favorite is my Studio Reference-II I got in anticipation of powering my 250ti's. I've yet to re-surround those so I'm playing the SR-II with everything from JBL Pro-II Plus to DCM TimeFrame 600s, L100s, S38s, and L7s. It sounds fantastic anytime I listen to it. My Power Line 3 sits right next to it on my testing table, for comparison. Someday I may cut loose most of my D-series amps. I even have one D150-II out on loan to a neighbor whose husband passed before I could get his Phase Linear 400 fixed for him. I just can't bring myself to do it now.

Here's a small sampling of what I have stashed away:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49544630343_af3160e867_k.jpg

mmc8180

02-07-2023, 06:53 AM

Nice stash! Looks like you have just enough amplifiers to power all the speakers.

I wish I had a big stash space to store big items...on second thought it may be a good thing I don't...

BMWCCA

02-07-2023, 10:38 AM

Nice stash! Looks like you have just enough amplifiers to power all the speakers.

I wish I had a big stash space to store big items...on second thought it may be a good thing I don't...That was an old picture, as is this one:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51632283170_5c13510142_k.jpg

And then there is another couple of rooms at the old house, too. :banghead:

DerekTheGreat

02-07-2023, 10:51 AM

I spy a lot of cool stuff in that stash. Looks like there is a poor, lone PS-400 that could serve me well. :D Should you choose to part with it, please let me know! Your threads/discussions regarding the PS series are what lead me down the road to purchasing one. Very happy with that purchase. :)

mmc8180

02-07-2023, 07:42 PM

And then there is another couple of rooms at the old house, too. :banghead:

Well....I do believe you need a few more amps lol

BMWCCA

02-07-2023, 08:13 PM

:banghead:

Well....I do believe you need a few more amps lol

The other house has L20t, L1, L3, L5, L7, 4412A, L96, 250ti, and another Pro-III Plus.
Several more Soundcraftsmen amps and pre-amps and EQs, probably seven or eight (or more) D-series-II Crowns, a few Adcoms, a couple of more Nak decks, and others I've probably forgotten about.
I need to retire so I can play with my toys.

But, to get back on topic, did you spot my "spare" SL2 in the second photo?
:cheers:

DerekTheGreat

02-08-2023, 07:02 AM

...But, to get back on topic, did you spot my "spare" SL2 in the second photo?
:cheers:

I did, but the PS-400 looks tastier to me. Should you want to clear some of that "old" gear that's just wasting space, please let me know! At this point, I'm thinking if I could get three PS-400's my stack would look and sound great. I could then retire the PS-200 to the office and finally cobble together a sound system in there.

mmc8180

02-09-2023, 12:06 PM

hjames

02-09-2023, 01:38 PM

When my wife gives me grief about all my audio equipment, I will show her your stash and tell her she should feel fortunate ... and also cautious because I am envious haha.

I may have you beat with amplifiers though...

I do highly recommend retirement.
No no - he built another house to house all the spare audio gear he's been accumulating ...
and don't start him off talking about his BMW car collection ...
and don't start him off talking about his BMW bike collection !!

(c'mon Phil, you know its all said with love ...)

Riley Casey

02-09-2023, 02:11 PM

I must have misunderstood the place of the Crown IC150 in the product line up . ;-))
Since the SL1 was Crown's first foray into "consumer" electronics, ...

Mr. Widget

02-09-2023, 03:02 PM

No no - he built another house to house all the spare audio gear he's been accumulating ...
and don't start him off talking about his BMW car collection ...
and don't start him off talking about his BMW bike collection !!

(c'mon Phil, you know its all said with love ...):applaud: :rotfl: :applaud:

Widget

BMWCCA

02-09-2023, 06:06 PM

I must have misunderstood the place of the Crown IC150 in the product line up . ;-))

I understand your thinking but that was considered a Pro item, too. Matched the DC300/A, D150/A, all considered "pro" components. It may have gotten a poor reception, until the A-version came out, but . . .

Pretty much anything with a non-grounded power cord from Crown would have to be considered "consumer". On amps, it's the lack of 1/4-inch input jacks.
:dont-know:

mmc8180

02-10-2023, 09:24 AM

No no - he built another house to house all the spare audio gear he's been accumulating ...
and don't start him off talking about his BMW car collection ...
and don't start him off talking about his BMW bike collection !!

What a great idea, a second house to store audio equipment and motorcycles! I'll consider it...

BMWCCA

02-10-2023, 06:11 PM

I may have you beat with amplifiers though...Maybe this weekend I'll have time to drop by the old house and do an inventory!
:duel:
:cheers:

mmc8180

02-11-2023, 11:43 AM

Maybe this weekend I'll have time to drop by the old house and do an inventory!
:duel:
:cheers:

haha okie doke, although I might be hesitant to list them for fear my wife will realize what I REALLY have...

rusty jefferson

02-11-2023, 08:06 PM

Perhaps you could use one house as an Airbnb destination for JBL aficionados. A different and period appropriate system and furnishings in each room from mid 20th century walnut and Scandinavian teak furniture to '70s Avocado Green shag carpet, orange lampshades and Lava lamps to a replica '80s studio with soffit mounted monitors and a Studer reel to reel tape deck to a '90s family room with glass topped chromed metal leg tables, mirrored wall accents and floral print fabrics. Voilà!! ;-)

BMWCCA

02-12-2023, 07:34 AM

Perhaps you could use one house as an Airbnb destination for JBL aficionados. . . Easier, and possibly more profitable, to just bulldoze it and sell the property. A 75-year-old un-air-conditioned house with an oil furnace, tiny bedrooms, old windows, and cast-iron radiators is way too expensive to modernize. Still deciding.

Mr. Widget

02-12-2023, 01:42 PM

Easier, and possibly more profitable, to just bulldoze it and sell the property. A 75-year-old un-air-conditioned house with an oil furnace, tiny bedrooms, old windows, and cast-iron radiators is way too expensive to modernize. Still deciding.Sounds like the perfect place to store surplus audio gear and vehicles.

Widget

DerekTheGreat

02-13-2023, 07:52 AM

Indeed. Nothing wrong with the oil furnace either. New chit tends to boast higher efficiency but at the cost of lower service life and costlier repairs. So on paper it looks good but ends up being more expensive over the long run. Radiators are also very allergen friendly and there's no furnace filter to change or ducts to clean out.

BMWCCA

02-14-2023, 11:22 AM

haha okie doke, although I might be hesitant to list them for fear my wife will realize what I REALLY have...

Okay, counting power-amps only, no integrated, no pre-amps, no equalizers, no crossovers, no receivers—just power amps:

Old house

(1) Adcom GFA-535L
(1) SAE 2400L
(1) SAE 2600
(1) Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power-Four
(1) Crown D-150 (first generation)
(1) Crown D-75A
(1) Crown D-150A Series II
(1) Crown DC-300A Series II
(6) Crown PS-200
(2) Crown PS-400

New house

(1) Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power-Four
(1) Carver PM 1.5
(1) JBL/Urei 6260
(3) Crown D-45
(3) Crown D-75A
(1) Crown D-150A Series II
(1) Crown Power-Line-Three
(1) Crown PS-200
(2) Crown PS-400
(1) Crown Studio Reference-II

So, that looks like around 31 pure power amps? Could be a few more hidden where even I couldn't find them today.
:wave:

hjames

02-14-2023, 11:24 AM

Yep, its NICE to have spares ... quad backups and such - ;)

Okay, counting power-amps only, no integrated, no pre-amps, no equalizers, no crossovers, no receivers—just power amps:

Old house

(1) Adcom GFA-535L
(1) SAE 2400L
(1) SAE 2600
(1) Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power-Four
(1) Crown D-150 (first generation)
(1) Crown D-75A
(1) Crown D-150A Series II
(1) Crown DC-300A Series II
(6) Crown PS-200
(2) Crown PS-400

New house

(1) Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power-Four
(1) Carver PM 1.5
(1) JBL/Urei 6260
(3) Crown D-45
(3) Crown D-75A
(1) Crown D-150A Series II
(1) Crown Power-Line-Three
(1) Crown PS-200
(2) Crown PS-400
(1) Crown Studio Reference-II

So, that looks like around 31 pure power amps? Could be a few more hidden where even I couldn't find them today.
:wave:

BMWCCA

02-14-2023, 11:36 AM

Yep, its NICE to have spares ... quad backups and such - ;)
When I find something I like, I usually stick with it. Ann and I have been married for 42-years and we lived together for several years before we wed. I've had JBLs in the house for over 65-years, BMWs for over 52, Crowns for even longer than 52, and Soundcraftsmen for something approaching 50-years. And even one McIntosh pre for around 55-years.
The Soundcraftsmen inventory of pre-amps, pre-receivers, EQs, and pre-EQ is a whole other story . . . !
Don't ask how many BMWs. Or Victorinox watches, all working! Still have the first one given to me in 1992. :crying:

Mr. Widget

02-14-2023, 12:32 PM

When I find something I like, I usually stick with it...I understand completely!

That does't explain the hoarding though. :bouncy:

Widget

BMWCCA

02-14-2023, 02:28 PM

I understand completely!

That does't explain the hoarding though. :bouncy:I suppose to that I could add that when I find an interesting JBL reasonably-local for $200, or less, I just buy it on general principles. Same is true for Crown amps over the years. The most I spent was for my first D150 which I purchased new, and the next D150A-II which was about one-year-old. All the rest were each less than $200, and some were damn near free. If they don't have blue meters, around here that means they are just junk. If that's hoarding, then may the Lord smite me with it and may I never recover! ;)

You may remember that prior to my purchase of the 4345 clones here, my title was "bottom feeder". I think I earned it from a member here who was insulted at the questions I asked before making him an offer on his 4333, as I recall. :dont-know:

Mr. Widget

02-14-2023, 04:03 PM

You may remember that prior to my purchase of the 4345 clones here, my title was "bottom feeder". I think I earned it from a member here who was insulted at the questions I asked before making him an offer on his 4333, as I recall. :dont-know:Bottomfeeder? I don't remember, but then I sometimes forget where I live. Not sure which is worse my long term or short term memory.

Widget

DerekTheGreat

02-15-2023, 08:35 AM

Nice list, plenty of PS amps to go around. I just bought two 400's and they will be enroute shortly. I still need a third, so if you could part with one in a few months, let me know. :)

BMWCCA

02-15-2023, 09:03 PM

Nice list, plenty of PS amps to go around. I just bought two 400's and they will be enroute shortly. I still need a third, so if you could part with one in a few months, let me know. :)
Some of those PS amps were bought because I liked the color better on some over others. Crown was inconsistent with their black/grey metallic finishes. And some were purchased because I wanted a Crown system where all components had rack handles—and others where I wanted them to match without rack handles. At one time I ended up buying all the PS rack handles Crown had remaining in-stock before they vacated Elkhart.

And at one time I decided the PS amps without the little plastic plate around the "Signal Presence" lights were later versions and sounded better, so . . .

And then I started buying up the PS/ModX adapters for the PS amps to run XLR connectors from my Ashly in the bi-amp systems.

And then some of the knobs on the D-series and PS series amps didn't match exactly with some having triangular pointers and some having lines. Then I bought all of the knobs Crown had in inventory—and even the dummy-knob kits they sold to prevent tampering with settings.

They all sounded like good reasons at the time!

And it's not like some who are no longer here to defend themselves were not role models for me!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49800276421_bf5681d901.jpg

DerekTheGreat

02-16-2023, 04:51 AM

Some of those PS amps were bought because I liked the color better on some over others. Crown was inconsistent with their black/grey metallic finishes. And some were purchased because I wanted a Crown system where all components had rack handles—and others where I wanted them to match without rack handles. At one time I ended up buying all the PS rack handles Crown had remaining in-stock before they vacated Elkhart.

And at one time I decided the PS amps without the little plastic plate around the "Signal Presence" lights were later versions and sounded better, so . . .

And then I started buying up the PS/ModX adapters for the PS amps to run XLR connectors from my Ashly in the bi-amp systems.

And then some of the knobs on the D-series and PS series amps didn't match exactly with some having triangular pointers and some having lines. Then I bought all of the knobs Crown had in inventory—and even the dummy-knob kits they sold to prevent tampering with settings.

They all sounded like good reasons at the time!

And it's not like some who are no longer here to defend themselves were not role models for me!

LoL! That sounds like stuff I'd do, especially about the paint as I did notice some are black and some are this very pretty metallic charcoal color. The PS-200 I bought is the pretty color and now I want my PS-400's to be that color. Originally I wanted the later models as I thought they might sound better as they've got newer internals and I thought the flat face looked better. That's of course before I noticed the color difference. Then I noticed some have rack handles and some don't- I gotta have rack handles! There's one on the bay right now: https://www.ebay.com/itm/354589142955 but it doesn't have handles. Seems like a good deal if you could get it for $400, but no handles and I can't make heads or tails if it's charcoal or black.

Did you ever notice a difference in sound between the early PS and late PS amps?

Do you happen to have a spare set of rack handles? (I might want to snag that PS-400 on the bay if so..)

Do you have any spare MOD/X adaptors???

PS, that neon Crown light is awesome.

BMWCCA

02-16-2023, 05:39 AM

LoL! . . .

Did you ever notice a difference in sound between the early PS and late PS amps?

Do you happen to have a spare set of rack handles? (I might want to snag that PS-400 on the bay if so..)

Do you have any spare MOD/X adaptors???

PS, that neon Crown light is awesome.
I thought I did, but I know I liked the look better so concentrated on the later ones after that. I believe one of my early PS-400s came, or I later added, a pair of handles that were not color matched. I found the appropriate color and posted the paint code on the old Crown Corporate Forum.

I think all I have left are PS-200 handles but I'll check. Those would be new. Most of the early amps with the little plastic piece on the front panel seemed to have handles. Few, if any, of the latter ones did.

I recall buying PS-MOD/X adapters whenever I'd come upon them on Ebay. Haven't checked my spares in a while. Seems like I've been moving from house to house for over four-years and still don't know where half my stuff is!

The photo and that collection are not mine. That came from conversations I had with LH member Tom Loizeaux who is, sadly, no longer with us.

DerekTheGreat

02-16-2023, 06:41 AM

Oh, does that forum still exist?

I appreciate it! Although the audiobux coffer is tapped once again after the purchase of those two PS-400's. I've got to list more of my obsolete gear & sell it. However, if I could get that PS-400 shipped for less than $500, that would be a pretty sweet deal. Then I'd have a spare PS-200 on my hands.

There are quite a few on eBay, but everyone wants around $100 for them. I have seen PS amps listed for sale with the adaptors on them. If a soul needed/wanted both, that's the way to go as the seller usually isn't charging extra for the combo.

That is sad. I've noticed as I browse around here and other forums that some of the members have passed on. Vintage audio doesn't seem to have the appeal vintage cars and such do, so I wonder what will happen to this gear as the custodians of it pass on..

rusty jefferson

02-16-2023, 10:37 AM

This. This is one of the best things I've read here. Just fabulous! :-D

Some of those PS amps were bought because I liked the color better on some over others. Crown was inconsistent with their black/grey metallic finishes. And some were purchased because I wanted a Crown system where all components had rack handles—and others where I wanted them to match without rack handles. At one time I ended up buying all the PS rack handles Crown had remaining in-stock before they vacated Elkhart.

And at one time I decided the PS amps without the little plastic plate around the "Signal Presence" lights were later versions and sounded better, so . . .

And then I started buying up the PS/ModX adapters for the PS amps to run XLR connectors from my Ashly in the bi-amp systems.

And then some of the knobs on the D-series and PS series amps didn't match exactly with some having triangular pointers and some having lines. Then I bought all of the knobs Crown had in inventory—and even the dummy-knob kits they sold to prevent tampering with settings.

They all sounded like good reasons at the time!

And it's not like some who are no longer here to defend themselves were not role models for me!

mmc8180

02-16-2023, 11:48 AM

They all sounded like good reasons at the time!

And it's not like some who are no longer here to defend themselves were not role models for me!

Hey no need to make explanations / justifications for "normal" behavior!

I have sold 4 audio items in my life - two reel to reel decks and a pair of Epos 11 speakers (wish I kept those). And I did give away a pair of my first homemade speakers made in high school. Everything else I still have.

I will do an inventory ... The only thing more sobering is keeping track of all the $$ expended on this hobby ...

The wife can't complain much as most I bought before we were married!

Mr. Widget

02-16-2023, 07:02 PM

I will do an inventory ... The only thing more sobering is keeping track of all the $$ expended on this hobby ...
The fact that you can create an inventory and can track what you spent is impressive. I have gone through so much gear, I have forgotten half of it and have no idea what I have spent... except at any point in time since my first car and through to today, my stereo gear has always cost me more than whatever car or cars I owned at the time.

Widget

BMWCCA

02-16-2023, 08:33 PM

... except at any point in time since my first car and through to today, my stereo gear has always cost me more than whatever car or cars I owned at the time.I can help you fix that! ;)

Quite some time ago an Audi customer was trading his 5000 sedan on a new Audi and brought his folder of receipts with him. He told me he had added it all up and was shocked. I told him you were never, ever to do that on an Audi—or any car!—because you could die from the discovery.

Being the bottom-feeder that I was known for, I have a piece of masking tape on most components with the price and date when I bought them. I'm so cheap it's not even important to hide it from my wife. She is well aware of the deposit I pissed away on the 4345 Craig's List scam recently, too. I do try to tell her that when I finally shuffle off this mortal coil, the price listed is not what she should sell all of that crap for!!!!!! :banghead:

mmc8180

02-17-2023, 10:08 AM

The fact that you can create an inventory and can track what you spent is impressive.

I can inventory most of it because I still have it ... but I don't have the cost, if I did it would be sobering.

About 20 years ago I wanted to insure everything I had and I did do a detailed inventory with estimated replacement costs ... it scared me. I will never do that again ... so I went forward and have easily tripled that since ...

What you did is probably best - buy - sell - forget :)

mmc8180

02-17-2023, 10:14 AM

I can help you fix that! ;)

I told him you were never, ever to do that on an Audi—or any car!—because you could die from the discovery.

Or motorcycle ... I am restoring one and have been keeping track of costs, could have bought 5 new ones by now if they were available. And that is just parts only, no work yet

BMWCCA

02-17-2023, 05:57 PM

Or motorcycle ... I am restoring one and have been keeping track of costs, could have bought 5 new ones by now if they were available. And that is just parts only, no work yetSince we're so far off-topic anyway, what are you working on?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52605020487_be985dbf71_k.jpg

mmc8180

02-17-2023, 07:23 PM

Since we're so far off-topic anyway, what are you working on?
[/img]

I knew that would bring you off topic (I noticed you are a beemer guy, bike and cars)... and that is a sweet restoration.

My current project is a 1990 GSXR 1100, will look stock but with a hot-rodded engine (hopefully after and before)

BMWCCA

02-17-2023, 09:32 PM

I knew that would bring you off topic (I noticed you are a beemer guy, bike and cars)... and that is a sweet restoration.

My current project is a 1990 GSXR 1100, will look stock but with a hot-rodded engine (hopefully after and before)Beautiful bike, but likely too fast for this old man. The BMW is a '78 R100RS Motorsport, one of 200 made for the world. Unrestored. Hope to be riding it this summer for all the 100th Anniversary of BMW Motorcycles events.

mmc8180

02-18-2023, 09:46 AM

Beautiful bike, but likely too fast for this old man. The BMW is a '78 R100RS Motorsport, one of 200 made for the world. Unrestored. Hope to be riding it this summer for all the 100th Anniversary of BMW Motorcycles events.

Wow unrestored! I personally would be afraid to ride an unrestored beautiful vintage bike :) ... but she will show very well.

I keep looking at what time and money I've spent on this bike and shake my head that I could have had a new BMW S 1000 RR...

Speed isn't the problem for an old man like me, its the seating position that can be a real pain

I finished this restoration a couple years ago 89 GSXR 1100

mmc8180

02-18-2023, 10:01 AM

I did an amp count. I didn't mean to get into a measuring contest, and for me it's more of a red face as in, "what were you thinking?" But any way the total is 31 A TIE lol.

No integrated's, no receivers, no powered subs, nothing upstream or downstream of amplifiers. The last 10 of these are 6 channel amps:

SAE P10
Six QSC-RMX2450
QSC PLX 1502
QSC PLX 2402
QSC PLX 3002
QSC PLX 3402
Carver PT2400
Carver PT1250
Carver PM 2.0t
Carver M1.0t
Two Carver M1.5t
Two Carver M4.0t
Two ATI 1502
Four ATI 1506
Two Cinepro 4K6 SEIV Gold
Cinepro 3K6 II
Cinepro 2K6 III
Two Rane MA6

I just finished (not me a restorer) a beautiful restoration of a Marantz 2230 receiver, my very first audio buy in college. Now looking for some high efficiency speakers for these. The two Carver M4.0t's are next slated for a total restoration.

I'm spending my kid's inheritance :rotfl:

BMWCCA

02-18-2023, 04:57 PM

I did an amp count. I didn't mean to get into a measuring contest, and for me it's more of a red face as in, "what were you thinking?" But any way the total is 31 A TIE lol.

No integrated's, no receivers, no powered subs, nothing upstream or downstream of amplifiers. The last 10 of these are 6 channel amps:I've have to say that the six-channel amps would be the tie-breaker!
:applaud:

I've got several more un-restored bikes though:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51884018828_e42d53a22c_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51113462971_38cfd400d8.jpg

This one is from back when Esquire Magazine rented my bikes for a fashion shoot decades ago. Still have the bikes—but not the Sports Illustrated swim-suit model:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51883950341_47b221b11e_c.jpg

mmc8180

02-18-2023, 09:09 PM

I don't know BMW's but the two black boxers appear to be 70's vintage? The beige single, that I'm guessing 60's, perhaps even late 50's? The front linked suspension was still around on other bikes during those years. All very sweet and look collector's grade. Do you take them to show's?

I'll sure the bikes aged slower than the models though

BMWCCA

02-19-2023, 07:41 AM

Since you asked:

I don't know BMW's but the two black boxers appear to be 70's vintage? The beige single, that I'm guessing 60's, perhaps even late 50's? The front linked suspension was still around on other bikes during those years. All very sweet and look collector's grade. Do you take them to show's?

I'll sure the bikes aged slower than the models thoughLouise Forsling likely did not age as well as the bike, but it's hard to find recent photos.

In the group of three bikes, the one on the left is a 1972 R60/5, the white is a 1966 R27, and the black on on the right is a 1968 R69US, commonly referred to as a "Slash-2" the "US" referring to the telescopic fork option which indicated the way BMW would go just a few years later on the /5 series. The black bike with the "bikini" fairing is a 1981 R100CS, one of 164 made for the US as an homage to the classic R90S. The "CS" refers to Classic S. This CS was also featured in the 8-page photo-spread in Esquire.

Many of these bikes will likely attend some of the celebrations this year for BMW's 100th Anniversary of motorcycle production. I was asked to include two or three in the "100th" exhibit at the BMW CCA Foundation museum in South Carolina but passed since I'm not the "collector" type who has time and transport available to schlep them to SC, leave them for a year, and somehow get them back home. I may ride one of them to attend the exhibit, but I only haul them when I'm buying them—or if they break. The CS has only been in my truck the day I bought it over 30-years ago, and once when the electronic ignition failed while at an international rally in WV also decades ago. They are each what would today probably be called "survivor" level collectibles and not show bikes. The red 1972 now has over 26k miles. The CS has over 50,000 miles on it, as does my R1150RS.

Strong coincidence that much of my Crown "collection" is close in age to many of my BMW bikes—and JBLs, too. In fact, I purchased my first Crown amp about the same year I purchased my first BMW bike.
:hmm:

:dont-know:

mmc8180

02-19-2023, 07:49 PM

Bravo, beemers were always known for their ability to do high mileage touring and longevity. They still look like collectors to me - all original with very light wear is my definition.

hjames

03-15-2023, 07:29 AM

Just found a recycler type place somewhat local to me that seems to have a few Crown PS-400 amps for sale. I expect to go pick it up Friday for under $300 including tax (no shipping fees - which they listed at $50).
It doesn't have the knobs or shafts - a common mod from what I've seen on Crown gear to keep the unauthorized from dinking with the levels, so I'm looking to find thos parts to restore the control function.
More when I know more ... A blurry scanned service manual is available at HiFi Engine ...

Oh, does that forum still exist?

I appreciate it! Although the audiobux coffer is tapped once again after the purchase of those two PS-400's. I've got to list more of my obsolete gear & sell it. However, if I could get that PS-400 shipped for less than $500, that would be a pretty sweet deal. Then I'd have a spare PS-200 on my hands.

There are quite a few on eBay, but everyone wants around $100 for them. I have seen PS amps listed for sale with the adaptors on them. If a soul needed/wanted both, that's the way to go as the seller usually isn't charging extra for the combo.

That is sad. I've noticed as I browse around here and other forums that some of the members have passed on. Vintage audio doesn't seem to have the appeal vintage cars and such do, so I wonder what will happen to this gear as the custodians of it pass on..

BMWCCA

03-15-2023, 05:15 PM

hjames

03-15-2023, 06:59 PM

Crown offered a kit for knob delete which consisted of a tube to push the attenuator shafts inside the faceplate and some dummy knobs that snapped in the holes left by removing original knobs and pushing the shafts inside. Love to see what they did to yours.

I have not picked it up from what appears to be a recycler type biz, but I plan to go there on Friday,
Here's an image from the ebay ad - looks like gromets or collars on openings in the front panel where I'd expect the shaft from the volume pots to protrude.

DerekTheGreat

03-16-2023, 03:24 AM

Just found a recycler type place somewhat local to me that seems to have a few Crown PS-400 amps for sale. I expect to go pick it up Friday for under $300 including tax (no shipping fees - which they listed at $50).
It doesn't have the knobs or shafts - a common mod from what I've seen on Crown gear to keep the unauthorized from dinking with the levels, so I'm looking to find thos parts to restore the control function.
More when I know more ... A blurry scanned service manual is available at HiFi Engine ...

Would they happen to be like these?:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325185633302?hash=item4bb692fc16:g:doUAAOSwQ4difAi e&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4Am5MIuZdD2rRyKCcFf%2BryyMfDp KDSO7CDot9E9Zdpdh7JTl%2BhNMUqTa4wcVmrcbavMMGsxw3O0 N8wYCHxKY2%2F3DenZUJvjopo00PPqeEAiKEQ6ut9t1p0If55g yWI%2F7vdhq6Tu6rDyZmn%2BUQVm5C%2BVWp0svUS8Dhrp8iyV HmGYf1VT3TOPeAy%2BNM2agYNLyMSh3WHFa8rlL6wbGQb4VItv MGBj3qay%2FuAhbVZHA9AzGzqRS%2FKc%2BjONqXSgM4ZqohLk BJwT4%2Fx%2BD%2BVkHAJRu3v6%2F7oaRq2fCpNf2MTPWnDTT% 7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6jO857dYQ

Reaaally cheap units there, but I've stayed away as I noticed the knobs & shafts are missing. Although I had two PS-400's very briefly that I had to send back due to issues. But I had the cover off of them to adjust DC offset before I put them into my shit stack. While I was doing that I noticed there are just tiny allen head screws which lock that shaft in place. I tried contacting the seller of those cheap 400's to ask about that and didn't get a response. So I took that to be an indicator of their customer service and so decided not to buy from them. Plus, it would drive me bonkers to not have the knobs, and part prices are usually outrageous compared to full units.

BMWCCA

03-16-2023, 04:43 AM

I have not picked it up from what appears to be a recycler type biz, but I plan to go there on FridayProbably a good idea to take an iPod or some other portable source with cables and adapters to the Crown 1/4" input jacks and a pair of headphones. I've done this when buying Crown amps in-person as they all have monitor jacks for headphones (1/4-inch) on the front panel. Of course having functioning input attenuators helps but just keep the iPod volume down so you don't blow your ears out!

:)

hjames

03-16-2023, 05:57 AM

Thats them. Basically a 45 minute drive from me, close to where I grew up in Maryland.
Phil's comment on carrying an iPhone and large headphones to test it is a good idea -
I did something similar when I bought some large UREIs 811Cs in West Virginia ...
(the seller hauled them over from Ohio - we met midway, I hauled them home in my CRV).
But when my contract job ended shortly afterwards, I sold them in a panic ...

Would they happen to be like these?:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325185633302?hash=item4bb692fc16

Reaaally cheap units there, but I've stayed away as I noticed the knobs & shafts are missing. Although I had two PS-400's very briefly that I had to send back due to issues. But I had the cover off of them to adjust DC offset before I put them into my shit stack. While I was doing that I noticed there are just tiny allen head screws which lock that shaft in place. I tried contacting the seller of those cheap 400's to ask about that and didn't get a response. So I took that to be an indicator of their customer service and so decided not to buy from them. Plus, it would drive me bonkers to not have the knobs, and part prices are usually outrageous compared to full units.

BMWCCA

03-16-2023, 05:05 PM

Phil's comment on carrying an iPhon and large headphones to test it is a good idea - Don't know about them new-fangled iPhons. I'm sure you've got an old iPod with a real output jack on it around somewhere! ;)

Mr. Widget

03-16-2023, 08:13 PM

Basically a 45 minute drive from me, close to where I grew up in Maryland.Sound like you haven't gotten too far... ;)
The again, I was born about 30 minutes from where I've ended up myself.

But when my contract job ended shortly afterwards, I sold them in a panic ...Bummer.

Widget

BMWCCA

03-16-2023, 09:23 PM

I took this photo last night and sent it to Heather.
Figured it might have some historic value posted in this thread, too:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52752439811_442b1ea331_k.jpg

DerekTheGreat

03-17-2023, 03:36 AM

Ah, well if that was the case with the seller's amplifiers, you'd still see the shaft just sans knob. Collars are still there, but no shafts with these. I suspect either the shafts were removed to prevent tampering in their original installation or that these have become parts units and have more going on than what meets the eye. Unfortunately for me, they did not reply to my message about that. Although perhaps that is unfortunate for them, as I'd have bought two if they could have told me they work and are actually just missing the shafts. Once you pop the top cover, you can still adjust them. However, I am OCD and that would kill me. Not to mention I've never seen those for sale so not sure what four shafts & knobs would run a fella. Probably cheaper to buy a complete amp.

hjames

03-17-2023, 06:16 AM

Yeah, Phil sent me an aside that Crown recommendation is to set Vol at 12:00 and control vol with preamp etc ...
Pretty much what I did with the JBL/UREI amps on the 4341 system and similar power amps I've had in the past.
Still making my mind up whether I'm going to pick them up today.
But I promised Emma a stopover at a tropical plants shop, and an authentic type jewish supermarket/deli in Montgomery County ...

Ah, well if that was the case with the seller's amplifiers, you'd still see the shaft just sans knob. Collars are still there, but no shafts with these. I suspect either the shafts were removed to prevent tampering in their original installation or that these have become parts units and have more going on than what meets the eye. Unfortunately for me, they did not reply to my message about that. Although perhaps that is unfortunate for them, as I'd have bought two if they could have told me they work and are actually just missing the shafts. Once you pop the top cover, you can still adjust them. However, I am OCD and that would kill me. Not to mention I've never seen those for sale so not sure what four shafts & knobs would run a fella. Probably cheaper to buy a complete amp.
Agreed - thats what I would have expected. But, the one amp just needs 2 shafts.
I've got a dremel so maybe I can fab up a pair of shafts if they're actually not there - and I have plenty of knobs with setscrews that go to 11 ;)

rusty jefferson

03-17-2023, 10:40 AM

Couldn't resist. Just picked it up at the library to watch this weekend.
https://youtu.be/IHCmkV27200

hjames

03-17-2023, 03:38 PM

We went by their facility, but, there were signs on the door that it was not a public space, and some guy with a heavy russian accent said go to the loading doc
and he'd bring the amp there for me to pick it up. Frankly, I wasn't going to pay for it unless I could at least run some signal through it and make sure it was actually working.
That didn't look to be happening - didn't seem like they were going to offer me a place to plug it in.
I think he was trying to be friendly, but it felt like customer service was lacking!
"I got a bad feeling about this ..." so we just got back in the car, just bailed, and left the amp with them.

Sadly, the Jewish grocery store I remember was under new owners and nowhere near its former glory (the deli no longer existed no ruebens!) ...
But the tropical plant shop afterwards was very cool - A large number of greenhouses behind a rural house ...
I got a mid-sized Pony Tail palm plant, and Emma found a prayer plant and a succulent.

Yeah, Phil sent me an aside that Crown recommendation is to set Vol at 12:00 and control vol with preamp etc ...
Pretty much what I did with the JBL/UREI amps on the 4341 system and similar power amps I've had in the past.
Still making my mind up whether I'm going to pick them up today.
But I promised Emma a stopover at a tropical plants shop, and an authentic type jewish supermarket/deli in Montgomery County ...

Agreed - thats what I would have expected. But, the one amp just needs 2 shafts.
I've got a dremel so maybe I can fab up a pair of shafts if they're actually not there - and I have plenty of knobs with setscrews that go to 11 ;)

Riley Casey

03-18-2023, 11:04 AM

Parkway Deli on Grubb Rd in Silver Spring can get pretty close but I don't know anyplace in Mo Co that one can find a real NYC style Rueben. Sticky Fingers in Columbia Heights made a pretty good vegan version, proof once again that eating vegan should never be confused with eating healthy.
...Sadly, the Jewish grocery store I remember was under new owners and nowhere near its former glory (the deli no longer existed no ruebens!) ...But the tropical plant shop afterwards was very cool - A large number of greenhouses behind a rural house ...I got a mid-sized Pony Tail palm plant, and Emma found a prayer plant and a succulent.

BMWCCA

03-19-2023, 09:23 AM

Yeah, Phil sent me an aside that Crown recommendation is to set Vol at 12:00 and control vol with preamp etc ...
Pretty much what I did with the JBL/UREI amps on the 4341 system and similar power amps I've had in the past.
To be clear, Crown's recommendation through their (now-defunct forum) was always set the amplifier input attenuators so that the normal listening range of your system could be achieved somewhere around the middle range of your pre-amp volume control. Now this may be assuming that your pre-amp's volume control is at unity gain at 12-o'clock, which may not be the case for many consumer pre-amps.
:dont-know:

I always figured it was safer anyway in case someone cranked up the volume and then switched inputs or something like that. It generally works out in my systems where the Crowns or JBL/Urei amps get set to 12-o'clock anyway.

DerekTheGreat

06-28-2023, 10:21 AM

That dude selling those shaftless PS400's? He dropped the prices on both big time. I couldn't resist, made an offer and ended up with one of them about a month ago. Turns out it is the first PS-400 I've bought that works correctly! It was a PITA to adjust the input level attenuators to where they need to be, both the top and bottom cover had to come off and my fingers are short & stubby so not much room in there to grab 'em & turn. This unit had fans (which I've never seen before) that I removed when I set the DC offset and cleaned up it. Despite how awful it looked in the ad, the thing really cleaned up well. Be wary, the other unit the guy has for sale is actually the unit I bought, he's got the ads flip-flopped. I saw both and made an offer on the fan-less unit as I thought it was in better shape, but ended up with it anyway. Glad it worked out that way though, didn't know the fans were an option from Crown.

Anyway, I swapped the PS-400 in place of the Adcom GFA-555II and have to say I'm quite impressed with it. The 555II is muddier and bloated compared to the PS-400. The 400 lays down some tight, accurate bass, really makes the 2245H's I've got shine. Lastly the 400 seems to punch just as hard as the 555II too. With all that said, the 400 has become my new standard, the 200 too! These amps are amazing compared to all the stuff I've tried so far, especially for the price. I've now got three 200's and two 400's. How did that happen?? :bouncy: I'm rather anxious to get them all down to AE Techron for a check-up, two at a time.. The one 400 I've got goes silent on channel 2 once it warms up and one of the 200's has a dead IOC and signal presence light. Eventually I will have a quad-amp'd system, pretty stoked for that. Perhaps no clip lights for me?

Lastly, if anyone has a set of shafts, collars (the deal with the allen head fasteners which secure the shaft to the input stub) and knobs for a PS amp, please let me know! Would like to buy them to make my PS-400 whole.