Questions about my Dual Showman 15" JBLs

[axuality]

I bought a new Dual Showman in 1966. It had two JBL 15" and I want something like that again.

#1 What were they? and what was their frequency range?

#2 Why did they stop making those speakers and the 12 verson?

#3 If they were just JBL's regular stereo speakers, could I just buy those? And maybe this is why their frequency range was so good?

#4 If nothing pans out in the previous questions, what is THE MOST ACCURATE clone of those JBLs out of my Dual Showman?

Thank you so much.

[speakerdave]

Cool handle; I like it.

There are several threads here about the D130, D130F, D120, D120F; they often include posts by Harvey Gerst, who was with JBL at the time. Do searches; you will find plenty.

Later versions were K130 and K120, which were the same except for higher power handling due to improvements in adhesives which could take the heat.

Of that same generation is the 2130 and 2135, the same as the K120 and K130, only given a JBL Pro model number.

Then came the E130, which was ferrite, a little different.

There were also ten inch versions, the D110, K110, 2120 and E110.

Finally, Harvey, and others, like the D123, though it is not meant as a musical instrument speaker, and is really light-duty.

[toddalin]

Fender sold them with D130s (or D130F depending on year), but you had the option of paying a few dollars more and getting the D140s (D140F).

[Tim Rinkerman]

D-130's are for guitar, D-140's are for bass...the ones with the "F" suffix, ie,D-130F...originally came in a Fender cabinet.

[BMWCCA]

Back then I was always lusting after Standel "Super Imperial" amps. The shop where I purchased my Hagstrom III had them. They used JBLs and had hang-tags making that proclamation. Maybe Jordans, too, though the closest reference I can find was that Jordan used Altec-Lansing speakers. I was never able to buy either a Standel or a Jordan anyway.


THE STANDEL STORY

Revolutionary Features

The important thing to know about Standel Amps is that many of the features that Standels had were totally unique when they were introduced, and yet are almost industry standard today. So it doesn't sound like such a big deal when we say that Standels had these various features, but when you look at the fact that such supposed industry leaders like Fender started copying Standel years after Standel had already had these features, you start to realize what a ground-breaking, revolutionary company it was. Some of these features:

1) Standels were the first guitar amplifiers that used JBL, (Lansing) speakers. These speakers were much costlier and much heavier than the cheaper and less efficient Jensens that Fender and Gibson were using, but were already standard in super hi-fidelity phonograph systems by the time that Bob Crooks put one in an amp in 1953. "It made all the difference in the world," is what Bob told me, "when I first heard that amp with that speaker in it, I said, That's the sound." Seven years later, after experimenting with almost every other kind of speaker, Fender finally relented and started putting JBL's in their top-of-the-line amplifiers too. Today, almost every brand of amplifier can be ordered with JBL's!!
http://www.guitar-museum.com/uploads/guitar/68/130177483589-1.jpg

http://www.johncipollina.com/images/ampStack01.jpg

http://www.jedistar.com/pdf/jordan_brochure_1960s.jpg

[Hamilton]

#4 If nothing pans out in the previous questions, what is THE MOST ACCURATE clone of those JBLs out of my Dual Showman?

A Peavey 1501-4 Black Widow speaker is voiced to a D130.

[BMWCCA]

Re-reading the original questions, even I can answer those!


The Showman was a guitar amp (Bassman was for...bass) so they must have been D130's, F's or not. We know from Harvey that the difference between the stock D130 and the ones made for Fender was the wider voice-coil gap in the F's to prevent binding when the ham-fisted installers at Fender torqued the mounting bolts too tightly or not uniformly. I seem to remember most D130s eventually acquiring the "doped" folded cone edges which especially helped the longevity of the D130s used in the harsher environmental conditions a guitar amp was usually found in.

The stock D130 is an extended-range JBL with a 4" edgewound-ribbon voice coil made of lighter aluminum compared to the more robust copper of many other JBLs. The lightness and the aluminum dome make it great for guitar reproduction and it is listed as covering the full range of audible frequencies. Harvey said he remembered them as being solid up to about 7KHz. Most were labeled as 16-ohm but they were all the same nominal impedance regardless, from what I remember reading on this site.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11597

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/d130.htm

[macaroonie]

D130 in custom cabinet. Sounds great :)

[toddalin]

Back then I was always lusting after Standel "Super Imperial" amps. The shop where I purchased my Hagstrom III had them. They used JBLs and had hang-tags making that proclamation. http://www.guitar-museum.com/uploads/guitar/68/130177483589-1.jpg






Some, but not all..., and very misleading!

I had one like that in the picture but with two 12" (70 WRMS). I bought it with the understanding that it had JBLs, and looking at in the music store, they certainly appeared as JBLs with the aluminum domes. Even the salesman noted they were JBLs.

But they weren't. :biting:

Eventually, the amp was stolen when we were loading up after doing a gig.

One thing about the Standels, they were a true bass reflex speaker cabinet.

BTW, I still have the original reverb/tremelo foot switch for the Standel (IIRC), as well as an original, still in the package VOX speaker handle if anyone can use these.

[jerry_rig]

Slightly off topic, I was a big Quicksilver fan and saw Cipollina play that rig live at a show around 1971 in St. Louis. Those horns are supposedly Wurlitzers -- the carnival organ folks. Amazing.


Back then I was always lusting after Standel "Super
Imperial" amps.

http://www.johncipollina.com/images/ampStack01.jpg

[Harvey Gerst]

D130 in custom cabinet. Sounds great :)That "D130" has the edge treatment, so it's really a" D130F," not a "D130".

[macaroonie]

Still sounds great !!

[Harvey Gerst]

Still sounds great !!Well, yeah, it should. The whole idea was to improve reliability while keeping the sound the same.

[toddalin]

Re-reading the original questions, even I can answer those!


The Showman was a guitar amp (Bassman was for...bass) so they must have been D130's, F's or not.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11597

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/d130.htm


I distinctly remember that the D140 was an option.

Recognize that the Bassman used two 6L6GCs to attain 50 watts whereas the Dual Showman (and Twin) used four 6L6GCs to attain 85 watts. People wanting more power for bass would use the Dual Showman in the Normal Channel input. The Bandmaster, comparable to the Bassman also with two 6L6GCs, made 40 watts.

[Tom Brennan]

Back in the 1960s some bassplayers ordered Dual Showmen with D-140s; it made a most excellent bass amp. I played drums in a band with a bassplayer with such a rig and knew a couple of other bassplayers who used them.

[Hamilton]

In '70 I saw Jack Cassidy with Jefferson Airplane use two Dual Showman Reverbs with his Guild bass and the tone was jaw dropping.

[hardtime]

I used D130Fs in homemade Showman cabnets seven nights a week for years (bought them in 1962), they are still perfect. Those gummy edges really worked.
I thought I would update with 140s, it all also required an amp about 4 times larger for about the same output. Check the the output of the two and you will see why.