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Aquaplas
02-03-2010, 10:57 PM
Question for all memebers

1. What was/is the best JBL ever...(PRICE NO OBJECT)?

2. What was the best value JBL speaker given price and performance.

4313B
02-03-2010, 11:19 PM
1. Everest II

2. 4344/4345

tom1040
02-04-2010, 05:20 AM
4345 on Audiogon.............

midlife
02-04-2010, 07:25 AM
I'm a L300 fan :D

dkalsi
02-04-2010, 07:27 AM
1. Everest II

2. 4344/4345

Man that speaks highly of the 4345. I can't wait to get mine up and running. Are they really that good?

4313B
02-04-2010, 08:31 AM
Are they really that good?Reasonably priced they are a great bang for the buck. Very dynamic, clear and full. You need to spend alot of money to beat them today. For example, a pair of 1400 Arrays for starters...

speakerdave
02-04-2010, 09:48 AM
Yeah, it's a nice thread topic, but probably not a long discussion.

M9500's might be in the running, though, for runner-up. Two pair of 1400nd's are definitely a match for the 2245 in home. As for the original horn and driver--I haven't heard it, but I'd be willing to bet. With my upgrade, it's no contest. But like was said, spendy.

The problem here, is most of us have not heard most of the candidates.

speakerdave
02-04-2010, 10:25 AM
Unfortunately participating in these threads is not taking away the sadness.

timc
02-04-2010, 10:26 AM
Since i have not heard the Everst 2, i would have to say the S9800. But i recon the Everest 2 is a big step up.

Bang for the buck category....I havent heard many vintage JBL's but for the insanly low price you can get them, i would have to put my money on the 4312 (if i remember correctly, maybe it was a 4311).


-Tim

Steve Schell
02-04-2010, 08:58 PM
Well if you don't mind the inclusion of historical curiosities (from a historical curiosity), then I would have to vote for the Lansing Iconic for category #1. This circa 1937-1945 two way system does so many things well that the listener ends up not caring much about its few failings. Mostly its use of high sensitivity field coil drivers and horn loading from 800Hz. up lend the system a liveliness and jump factor that is thrilling and toe tapping in the extreme. As a noted Altec authority once mentioned while listening to a pair of Iconics, "I knew they would be good, but I had no idea they'd be THIS good."

Not sure about #2, but I had a pair of Lancer 33s that were really satisfying for such small, simple systems.

Tom Brennan
02-04-2010, 09:18 PM
Best JBLs I ever heard (IMO of course) are the CS 3115s. Vocal reproduction was uncanny, spooky.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/Irishtom29/hi%20fi/visit022.jpg

Titanium Dome
02-04-2010, 10:16 PM
1. Everest II DD66000

2. L250 (new, at full retail)

SMKSoundPro
02-04-2010, 10:27 PM
Hey Tom, that's my kind of home hi-fi rig!

Love the Dynaco pre into the ART 310 or 311 xover, to the qsc amp.

Oh yeah, Loud and Nasty!!!!! You got some serious party rig there!

party on, garth!

Scotty.

Aquaplas
02-04-2010, 11:56 PM
Hi All,

Thanks for all the responses. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE all my JBL's. I am an avid audiophile for and own L300's, L200's L100 t3's, JBL Everest II's and waiting on the arrival of a pair of Century Gold's. I plan to add a pair of 4300 series as well as a Paragon before I am done.

Aloha,

Shane

Allanvh5150
02-05-2010, 12:10 AM
2402.

scott fitlin
02-05-2010, 02:28 AM
From the pro sector I am still a big fan of 2395 lenses with 2441 drivers.

cosmos
02-05-2010, 04:46 AM
Hi All,

Thanks for all the responses. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE all my JBL's. I am an avid audiophile for and own L300's, L200's L100 t3's, JBL Everest II's and waiting on the arrival of a pair of Century Gold's. I plan to add a pair of 4300 series as well as a Paragon before I am done.

Aloha,

Shane

Aloha Shane,

That's an incredible collection you have going. Literally "Living in Paradise" with vintage, top level JBL... awesome. Congrats! :applaud:

I think I could live that way too.. :beach:

For the record, my favorite JBL system is either the 250Ti-LE or a home brew concoction with 2245/2204/375/077. In either case, incredible sound.


Dan

pos
02-05-2010, 04:52 AM
a home brew concoction with 2245/2204/375/077Interesting! Do you have a description of your system somewhere?

macaroonie
02-05-2010, 11:42 AM
Question for all memebers

1. What was/is the best JBL ever...(PRICE NO OBJECT)?

2. What was the best value JBL speaker given price and performance.

The tiny Control 1 in its various forms has to be a candidate here. JBL must have sold gazillions of these little fellahs. Performance beyond the price tag.

jcrobso
02-05-2010, 11:44 AM
[/color]

The tiny Control 1 in its various forms has to be a candidate here. JBL must have sold gazillions of these little fellahs. Performance beyond the price tag.
I'm always amazed at the sound from this small speaker.

BMWCCA
02-05-2010, 12:36 PM
I'm always amazed at the sound from this small speaker.

I'm always amazed what they sell for on Ebay when you can buy them all day long brand-new on Harman's online store for $149. Never owned a pair. Maybe I should. How do they compare to the L1 or L20T?

Slare
02-05-2010, 12:53 PM
For the longest time there was a seemingly endless supply of Control 1's being sold through an as-is vendor on Ebay. Most of the pairs sold for about $20-30 shipped and had one flaw or another.

I bought two pairs with different problems and ended up with three like new Control 1's for under $50 I think. I still have and use the good pair. They make really nice nearfield speakers, an ideal choice to use on a desk, for example. But I wouldn't really place them anywhere near a pair of L1's, which stomp all over them if you have the room for them.

I have also had a pair of L20t3's but didn't care for them at all. I thought they were very neutral speakers, but not inviting to listen to at all. Much prefer L1's.

I'd vote in the poll but I'm not really qualified enough to vote for either based upon MSRP.

Based upon my own limited experience, I think a $300 pair of L7's is awfully hard to beat. But I've also missed out on a chance at L250's around $750.

spkrman57
02-05-2010, 03:24 PM
I heard a pair of Hartsfields once playing Pink Floyd and I thought there was very much that sounded wonderful even if there were faults I could also hear.

I would love to have a modern version of that system today!!!

Regards, Ron

BMWCCA
02-05-2010, 03:47 PM
I would love to have a modern version of that system today!!!You mean something like this: http://classicaudioloudspeakers.com/cgi-bin/index.pl?fs=2&upper=27&content=28

http://classicaudioloudspeakers.com/grafix/shClassicLine1.jpg

cosmos
02-05-2010, 04:46 PM
Interesting! Do you have a description of your system somewhere?
Pos,

Unfortunately, it wasn't my system. It was run quad-amped with a Marchand crossover. The 2245 had approximately 16 Cu Ft of cabinet and was tuned quite low.

However, it sounded so good, I have accumulated a pair of 2245, 2204 and 2405 for the slated purpose of replicating this system. I am still looking for a pair of 375/2441/2440 drivers. I do have a pair of 2445 that I guess I could use for the interim. The original 375 drivers were mounted on H93. I would not duplicate this part of the system, but might use Yuichi, Edgar or other horns in their place. The other thought I had was to possibly use 2226 in place of the 2204.. or 2118 if I was trying to downsize.

SEAWOLF97
02-05-2010, 04:53 PM
I think a $300 pair of L7's is awfully hard to beat. .


does a $100 pair of L7's beat them ?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27291


BEST JBL ever ???

the ones you missed on CL or Ebay by 2 minutes or .50 cents

cosmos
02-05-2010, 08:04 PM
BEST JBL ever ???

the ones you missed on CL or Ebay by 2 minutes or .50 cents

Like the pair of L300 I recently missed in Lima for $225 that the guy took a week to respond back to me.. and when he did he said that he had finally posted pictures and a model number and wanted me to give him my phone number. Of course, by the time I saw his e-mail and the pictures, the speakers were already sold..

His entire original description said "large JBL home spaekers - $225"

:banghead:

arrrghh

pos
02-06-2010, 01:13 AM
Pos,

Unfortunately, it wasn't my system. It was run quad-amped with a Marchand crossover. The 2245 had approximately 16 Cu Ft of cabinet and was tuned quite low.

However, it sounded so good, I have accumulated a pair of 2245, 2204 and 2405 for the slated purpose of replicating this system. I am still looking for a pair of 375/2441/2440 drivers. I do have a pair of 2445 that I guess I could use for the interim. The original 375 drivers were mounted on H93. I would not duplicate this part of the system, but might use Yuichi, Edgar or other horns in their place. The other thought I had was to possibly use 2226 in place of the 2204.. or 2118 if I was trying to downsize.
16cuft :eek:
Do you remember the crossover point and slopes between 2245 and 2204?

cosmos
02-06-2010, 10:43 AM
16cuft :eek:
Do you remember the crossover point and slopes between 2245 and 2204?

Pos,

Not exactly, but it was around 100 Hz. It appears 2245 is very limited on it's upward range and should be considered solely a sub. Is that your experience?

In my thinking, a 2225, 2226 or E145 could give more slam and nicer sound than 2204 when operated from 80-100 Hz up to the 600 to 800 where I'd cross to a compression driver.

What a system that should make!

speakerdave
02-06-2010, 11:02 AM
Pos,

Not exactly, but it was around 100 Hz. It appears 2245 is very limited on it's upward range and should be considered solely a sub. Is that your experience . . . .

When set up as a sub, 10+ cu ft and tuned low, it should be used as a sub. When set up as a woofer, 8-9 cu ft and tuned to about 30 Hz, as in the 4345, then it works well as a woofer; one of the best.

mikebake
02-06-2010, 11:30 AM
Like the pair of L300 I recently missed in Lima for $225 that the guy took a week to respond back to me.. and when he did he said that he had finally posted pictures and a model number and wanted me to give him my phone number. Of course, by the time I saw his e-mail and the pictures, the speakers were already sold..

His entire original description said "large JBL home spaekers - $225"

:banghead:

arrrghh
Lima, as in Lima, Ohio? Crap!!!

CountD
02-10-2010, 04:25 PM
Best bang for the buck - 4311,4312. Best JBL for me? JBL Custom 4430 with 2405h tweeters making them a three way.

Woofer
02-10-2010, 08:06 PM
"The best I ever heard"?
I luv 'em all.

"The best BANG for the bucks"?
The 4301B. ;)

RichK
02-10-2010, 08:32 PM
Best bang for the buck - 4311,4312. Best JBL for me? JBL Custom 4430 with 2405h tweeters making them a three way.

Would like more info on how you added the 2405H.

Rich

CountD
02-11-2010, 09:25 AM
Rich, the 2405h was added by JBL Pro as a custom job for the first owner - and also custom crossovers. I came across these as they were advertised as a 'special' pair of 4430s on LA craigslist - maybe some people saw them. I went up from San Diego and checked them out. They are mint, and the owner told me the story on how the first owner had JBL pro custom make these 4430s with the 2405h. If you look at a stock 4430 and you see that small panel that says JBL Studio Monitor with the two pots - this has been replaced with a custom panel where the 2405h resides. I will be posting some pictures. There are a lot of custom JBLs in California (especially in the LA area).

Also, I forgot my other vote for the best JBL 'bang for the buck' - I would have to say the L100t - values are down now and there seems to be a lot on the market.

shureman
02-11-2010, 11:32 AM
I bought these speakers, used, in 1971 and they were far from new then. Each cabinet contains: (2) 150-4s; (1) N-500 cross-over; (1) 375 with a 537-500 horn-lens assembly; (1) N-7000 cross-over; and (1) 075 ring-radiator. The cabinets are custom made and rather ugly. The speaker cloth has warped badly and the wood is a little chipped here and there. But these babies have been delivering great sound from then until now. I paid $2,000 back in '71 but have no idea what they're worth today. Because of the 16-ohm impedance I doubt any amp made in the last 20 years would work with them. I still have my 1969 McIntosh 2105 powering them.

According to the old JBL catalogues, the 083 did not have the 075 and its partner cross-over. It looks like the C-55 black utility cabinets would have served them.

JBL 4645
02-11-2010, 11:36 AM
[/color]

The tiny Control 1 in its various forms has to be a candidate here. JBL must have sold gazillions of these little fellahs. Performance beyond the price tag.

I second that.;)


I’m a plastic JBL control 1 and 5 fanatic of the Control series for 20 years and wouldn’t mind owning four Control 10 or 12SR. Control is easy versatile to move around and then solve the issues of its performance within new boundaries and I’ve had these control 5, as well as the (control 1 only in three types of rooms), where the Control 5 has been in many rooms over 20 years.:bouncy:

Best pounding pulverising sound for the £pound the JBL Control 5.:D

RichK
02-13-2010, 09:16 PM
Rich, the 2405h was added by JBL Pro as a custom job for the first owner - and also custom crossovers. I came across these as they were advertised as a 'special' pair of 4430s on LA craigslist - maybe some people saw them. I went up from San Diego and checked them out. They are mint, and the owner told me the story on how the first owner had JBL pro custom make these 4430s with the 2405h. If you look at a stock 4430 and you see that small panel that says JBL Studio Monitor with the two pots - this has been replaced with a custom panel where the 2405h resides. I will be posting some pictures. There are a lot of custom JBLs in California (especially in the LA area).

Also, I forgot my other vote for the best JBL 'bang for the buck' - I would have to say the L100t - values are down now and there seems to be a lot on the market.


Interesting, and excited to see pics. I recently picked up a pair of 4430's and do seem to miss the highs, so I'm curious. I've read quite a bit about the 4430, and went for it. My dad has the Olympus S8R, and I know Zilch will punish me, but they do sound sweet, and include more highs. I am growing into the 4430's though.

As far as adding: I was hoping for a simple cross to add, but am only seeing the bi-amp approach, etc.

Regards,
Rich

Horn Savant
02-13-2010, 10:31 PM
'57 Paragon

Ian Mackenzie
02-14-2010, 01:52 AM
Best ever? Or best ever value for money?

Just to make it a bit more interesting I think its a more relative to look at (1) JBL vintage professional, (2) JBL vintage consumer, (3) the JBL Japanese blue monitors (numerous models) and the statement series.

(1) 4345, 4435 a close 2nd

(2) L250Ti

(3) 4338

(4) DD66000

demon
02-14-2010, 02:28 AM
--top of the pops must be the DD66ooo, a true statement in sound and design! (i heard a pair once in a terribly bad room and they shone through the mush, hinting the possibilities. of course while looking GORGEOUS)

--price vs. value, i guess most stuff from the theaterinstalls is quite good. i tend to think that a 4675 for example is A LOT of speaker for moderate money. it has got the (disclaimer: imho) best horn of all times, two competent woofers and a truly understating cabinet ;)
http://www2.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductPictures/95752ab9-5293-4d57-8376-e12a851e6c27.jpg
play around with an active network, add a supertweeter if you wish and it could be nicely tweaked into the average household :)

3-2-1-BLAST-OFF

cheers,
mikey

ps: i own a pair of 4435 and i DONT think a supertweeter is needed. the system is very balanced: could be harder to proper integrate one then to live without one.

Woofer
02-14-2010, 03:49 AM
--price vs. value, i guess most stuff from the theaterinstalls is quite good. i tend to think that a 4675 for example is A LOT of speaker for moderate money. it has got the (disclaimer: imho) best horn of all times, two competent woofers and a truly understating cabinet ;)
http://www2.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductPictures/95752ab9-5293-4d57-8376-e12a851e6c27.jpg
play around with an active network, add a supertweeter if you wish and it could be nicely tweaked into the average household :)

3-2-1-BLAST-OFF

cheers,
mikey

Do you really think that Mikey?
I just got 8 of the 2360A's, and I was wondering if they'd suit a 'home stereo'?
They don't come around very often 'down under' so I've shared them with friends. ;)

demon
02-14-2010, 03:59 AM
i use them, and i think that :) but you know my hifi-highend-pa-journey is not that long yet.

if you already got the horns, you have to try! what can you loose?
(if you got eight of them i really think we should start to calculate if a line array would be possible with them XD -hell yeah!)
(btw. i have the 245o driver on mine, not the 2446)

cheers,
mikey

Woofer
02-14-2010, 04:06 AM
I only have 2440's to put on mine, but I do have 2405's to add.
.... and active, but, it'll be some time before I assemble it all.
There's just no room! :(

midlife
02-14-2010, 07:48 AM
Hi All,

Thanks for all the responses. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE all my JBL's. I am an avid audiophile for and own L300's, L200's L100 t3's, JBL Everest II's and waiting on the arrival of a pair of Century Gold's. I plan to add a pair of 4300 series as well as a Paragon before I am done.

Aloha,

Shane
Shane, would you describe the similarities & differences in the L200 and L300 listening experiences? thanks.

wolfshead
02-14-2010, 01:36 PM
The best ever JBL speaker system in my opinion would be two Hartsfield's
with a Paragon for the center speaker.

Frank Sinatra had such a system. There were several other motion picture stars with such systems, Richard Boone was seen in an old audio book
removing his 375 horn lens from one of his Hartsfields with the other Hartsfield
and a Paragon in the background.

The problem of course was space , a room large enough to accommodate
such a system.
Here in St.louis there was man with four Hartsfield in his basement , they were overwhelming.

The Harsfield were very expensive to build , there was a change in design about 1957 to reduce cost. The Paragon was also expensive to build.
Music has changed and with stereo and the cheap transistor audio will never be the same .

JBLAddict
02-14-2010, 04:05 PM
Best ever? Or best ever value for money?

Just to make it a bit more interesting I think its a more relative to look at (1) JBL vintage professional, (2) JBL vintage consumer, (3) the JBL Japanese blue monitors (numerous models) and the statement series.

(1) 4345, 4435 a close 2nd

(2) L250Ti

(3) 4338

(4) DD66000

great point about separating categories.....I had a number of current speakers to hear on my one day quest in Akihabara, Japan, and though the Everest2 left me speechless, the 4338 was the "ugly" speaker that I had no interest in hearing but ended up impressing me the most that day, considering the price difference....that's a sound I could live with every day without wanting more, just a wonderful speaker

BMWCCA
02-14-2010, 04:11 PM
The best ever JBL speaker system in my opinion would be two Hartsfield's with a Paragon for the center speaker.

If you read and search a bit on this site you'll find we have already venerated the Paragon for its aesthetic, its innovative approach, and it's craftsmanship. Many fall short of loving it for its sound though. As others have said, it would be difficult to believe that such top engineering minds that have worked at JBL in the decades since the introduction of the Paragon were not able to harness modern material, modern calibration techniques, and years of experience to improve on the ability to reproduce sound through transducer improvement. Have you heard the Everest II? :D


Here in St.louis there was man with four Hartsfield in his basement , they were overwhelming.
Perhaps you've met Maron Horonzakz (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=257) here?

wolfshead
02-14-2010, 05:42 PM
If you read and search a bit on this site you'll find we have already venerated the Paragon for its aesthetic, its innovative approach, and it's craftsmanship. Many fall short of loving it for its sound though. As others have said, it would be difficult to believe that such top engineering minds that have worked at JBL in the decades since the introduction of the Paragon were not able to harness modern material, modern calibration techniques, and years of experience to improve on the ability to reproduce sound through transducer improvement. Have you heard the Everest II? :D

An excellation observation. I might add , Most speakers in the United States designed since 1970 has been built around ever more exotic driver
materials and inexpensive transisters. Thus the emphasis on technology ,
engineering ,technique and change often masquerading as innovation has
rarely bought genuine progress. Speakers today at least to my ears are Hifi-ish and artifical. A result speakers designed earlier in the U.S. , most have emigrated to Japan and Europe. The outstanding speakers of the past has become collectors items. A pair of early Hartsfield can bring over $40,000


Perhaps you've met Maron Horonzakz (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=257) here? No I haven't.

BMWCCA
02-14-2010, 08:17 PM
No I haven't.

He's a member here who lives in St. Louis and has...more than one Paragon.

Maron Horonzakz
02-15-2010, 02:32 PM
The Paragon and Hartsfield can be improved upon,,If you insist on keeping the cabinets intact but changing to more advanced drivers,,woofers,,and xovers..But oddly enough in doing so drops the value for the collecter.. Go figure ??

wolfshead
02-15-2010, 03:49 PM
The Paragon and Hartsfield can be improved upon,,If you insist on keeping the cabinets intact but changing to more advanced drivers,,woofers,,and xovers..But oddly enough in doing so drops the value for the collecter.. Go figure ??
That is not always true, the cabinets were designed for especially the
woofers being used. It is almost impossible to find a woofer today that works well with a Hartsfield. Remember modification were made to reduce
the cost of manufacturing the Hartsfield. The Paragon was designed to complement the Hartsfield and was less critical.

The modified Hartsfield , produced after 1957 was quite different, as posted earlier cost was a major factor in construction.
The woofer was moved to the back of the enclosure wich simplified construction at a cost saving.
The sound is different. Especially in the bass region.

BMWCCA
02-15-2010, 05:40 PM
Maron and Wolfshead!

Let me get comfortable, this'll be too much fun to miss! http://www.mye28.com/images/smiles/popcorn.gif

You tell him, Horonzakz.



I really want to know what school Wolfshead attended in St. Louis. He may have fallen asleep in one of my English classes. ;)


Just kiddin', I love you guys! This is supposed to be fun, right? :applaud:

Maron Horonzakz
02-16-2010, 06:25 AM
In St louis,,Its the custom to ask what highschool you attended,,, And yes he is right the Hartsfield bass horn was redesigned to reduce cost in build.. Plus not too many customers wanted to purches the 8" adaptor,,So that modification was dropped,, Sounding different??? I never made a listening compairison,, Cut off of mouth of horn was the same but overall horn length was a bit shorter,,,Horn rolloff measured almost the same,,Not a white note difference, In both the Hartsfield & Paragon,,I hated the 075 tweeter or the tweeter placement.. Hartsfield and Paragon both are beautiful looking designs,,, But to me the Paragon looks better but falls short sonicly,,direct reflective sound falls short on imageing and all that discriptive crap... Oh ive tried many modifications to correct its driver positions,,Like moving the tweet to a special bracket mounted on the 375 oval horn,,ETC Woofers were changed with no improvement,,Its like having the most beautiful woman in your home but to find out she is a bitch butch.

wolfshead
02-16-2010, 06:57 AM
Excellent observation Maron, as posted earlier I inquired what tweeter to use with a Hartsfield speaker system. When I purchased the two Hartsfield there was no tweeter included. The original Hartsfieds did not come with
a tweeter.

I contacted JBL and talked with their technical department. I talked also with one of their tech people in St.Louis doing an audio show. Again the 175DLH or 275 driver was suggested as a replacement for the 075.

I have heard both Hartsfreild the difference is slight , but there is a difference. The Paragon is a beautiful work of art. When listening to both the Paragon and Hartsfield , the difference is simply power and dynamics.

Living in St.Louis once a Bozak city , the only speaker system that compares to the Bozak Concert Grands was the Hartsfield and EV Patricians in my opinion.

To manufacture those types of speakers today would be just to expensive. Plus musical taste has change. There would not be a market
for a Paragon or Concert Grand.

BMWCCA
02-16-2010, 07:04 AM
In St louis,,Its the custom to ask what highschool you attended,,,

It's also customary to offer an answer! Mine would be CDS.


Its like having the most beautiful woman in your home but to find out she is a bitch...Sometimes limiting the number of descriptive terms offers a word-picture that leaves more to the reader's interpretation and is actually far more evocative...and, in your case perhaps, more civil, courteous, well-mannered, well-bred, chivalrous, gallant, cordial, genial, pleasant, affable; gentlemanly—and less discourteous, rude, inappropriate, or offensive. :coolness:

Maron Horonzakz
02-16-2010, 07:16 AM
Yes there were alot of BOZAK Hounds in STL. They hung out at BOBs place on Hampton.. I hung out mostly at HiFi Showroon (Clayton),, And caught that JBL fever.. Both the 075 and 175 take a nosedive after 15K.. I have both as paper weights in my mancave,,, I think we might be of the same AGE,,,(sad huh !!!)

Maron Horonzakz
02-16-2010, 07:28 AM
BMW,,, Political Correctnes is for you LEMMUNGS who do not have the guts to be independent and speak your mind... I believe your from StL also,,, And know about the segmentation of the neighborhoods...I,m not a follower of being polite...

Mr. Widget
02-16-2010, 08:17 AM
I,m not a follower of being polite...As you have proved time and time again. While you might feel it is your prerogative, being a cranky old geezer, it isn't an endearing personality trait.


Widget

Woofer
02-16-2010, 08:27 AM
I,m not a follower of being polite...

How can you say that, and sound so proud of it?
That's really sad..... :(

4313B
02-16-2010, 08:31 AM
As you have proved time and time again. While you might feel it is your prerogative, being a cranky old geezer, it isn't an endearing personality trait.True but we need a balance. Frankly I'm glad Maron has stepped up to the plate and is riding that end of the seasaw. :rotfl:

Mr. Widget
02-16-2010, 08:43 AM
Frankly I'm glad Maron has stepped up to the plate and is riding that end of the seasaw. :rotfl:Oh, I'm not saying that I wasn't enjoying the discourse... as my wife likes to say. "You (meaning me) have a knack for stating the obvious." :o:


Widget

Maron Horonzakz
02-16-2010, 08:44 AM
You might want to read #54 again.. Its a proper discription for that speaker... But for the thinskinned its still a good discription,,, Looks good but still not good sounding,,,

wolfshead
02-16-2010, 11:04 AM
Yes there were alot of BOZAK Hounds in STL. They hung out at BOBs place on Hampton.. I hung out mostly at HiFi Showroon (Clayton),, And caught that JBL fever.. Both the 075 and 175 take a nosedive after 15K.. I have both as paper weights in my mancave,,, I think we might be of the same AGE,,,(sad huh !!!)I
I hung out at Bob Shaw on Hampton , also at HIfi Showroom on Clayton Rd. Again the 175DLH will extend when used only as a tweeter crossover at
7000k. Harvey Bender at HiFi show room on Delmar was a friend of mind.

Maron Horonzakz
02-16-2010, 11:20 AM
I will try the switch to the 7K xover position this evening on a pair of 175s and do an audition,,, Ol Harvey Bender.. The last i bumped into him was at DOLNICKS Furniture when i was in town,,, I asked if he still had his Rosewood Paragon,,,His reply was yes, and would sell it to me for $20,000... He sold me my Marantz 10B tuner (new)..

BMWCCA
02-16-2010, 07:32 PM
Harvey sold me my first Crown amp, about 1973. Also my C37 030, about 1969. And he took my Fisher SA-1000 in trade on the Crown and kept it for his audio "museum".

Maybe I knew you two, back then. Must have hit you both a little too hard on the head! Sorry 'bout that. ;)

RocknRum
02-16-2010, 10:07 PM
I liked the description of the Paragon in post #54. It was one of the few things I understood in this thread.

wolfshead
02-17-2010, 06:56 AM
I liked the description of the Paragon in post #54. It was one of the few things I understood in this thread.
The point to remember is that in the golden age of audio high fi , the owners and manufactures of audio equipment were men who enjoyed serious
music, they were hobbist as well as engineers.

Today multi-transnational companies own and manufacture audio equipment. The bottom line is profit. An example here locally was when Emerson Electric purchased Fisher. The CEO of Emerson Mr. Knight had little or no interst in the fine history and dedication Avery Fisher and others had put into making Fisher what it was. One of Americas leading audio companies.

Emerson destroyed Fisher , the Fisher products coming out of Emerson was second rate. That example can be used to describe the downward
slide of many audio companies. JBL was one of those companies.
But than did it really make a difference ?
One only has to listen to the popular music of today !

Maron Horonzakz
02-17-2010, 08:36 AM
Emerson Electric was more into avionics and military equipment,,It boggles the mind why Mr knight wanted to buy Fisher . But It will be interesting in the leagle fight at the KRELL takover.

Mr. Widget
02-17-2010, 09:22 AM
One only has to listen to the popular music of today !Are you my father?

Sounds like something he'd say. Well, to be truthful it sounds like something he would say 30 years ago when he was my age, now he really couldn't care less, what with his failing hearing and all.

Speaking of which. I met with a recording engineer the other day who had just come back with a CD he'd made at Sony Music (Columbia Records). The disc was of big band music as a tribute to music that was behind Frank Sinatra. He worked on the project with one of Frank's original engineers who now at 83 has high tech hearing aides that allow him to hear as well as he did at 18. Apparently these hearing aides are connected to a computer and can be electronically equalized to give you correct hearing once again.

I am sure they are horrifically expensive, but at least there is hope that we'll still be able to enjoy our systems and the high frequencies ;) well into our '80s... if we have the means.

Oh, did I wander OT... geez. :D


Widget

hjames
02-17-2010, 09:28 AM
Oh, did I wander OT... geez. :D


Widget

hey, watch who you're calling Geeze, okay?
as the years keep rolling by, a few more cycles get trimmed off the top ..

wolfshead
02-17-2010, 09:54 AM
Emerson Electric was more into avionics and military equipment,,It boggles the mind why Mr knight wanted to buy Fisher . But It will be interesting in the leagle fight at the KRELL takover.
Mr. knight was a Gordon Gekko of the 1970's he bought Fisher , especially the name , used it and threw it away. If I was to list all the audio companies this happen to the list would be almost endless.
We have heard that song before.

Maron Horonzakz
02-17-2010, 11:01 PM
Wolfshead,,,, Do you remember Bob Shaw, Foray into recording the St Louis Symphony Orch,, And broadcasting the tapes over KFUO FM ?? Bob Shaw and Roy had a hell of a time with Pasternak,,Directer of Powel Hall and Symphony,,They used to rant a rave about the politics and not getting paid for there long efforts,,, I bought that Crown recorder from him,, And later I Was recording engineer for St Louis Philharmonic For 19 yrs. I broadcast those tapes over KWMU.. With Barry Hufker,,That Crown 800 and also a Magnecord recorder Loaned from Bob Were the mainstay for those broadcasts,,,Bob Shaw sold a ton of SHURE cartridges and mics,,He also sold me the SENNHEISER mics and yards and yards of cable,, Loyd Smith and i used to hang out there on saturdays,,,I dont know if you new him,,In his Younger years Loyed played trumpet in a Jazz orchestra,,,Loyed bought his Bozak Concert Grand and Audio Research amps from Shaw,,,Loyed loved tube amps,, Every time Audio Research came out with a new amp he had to upgrade. It was sad when Bob closed that Audio store he did alot of audio installations aroun town,, He was ill and couldnt carry on,,, I wonder what happened to Roy,,,, At John Marshall,s place,,HiFi Showroom,,,Had a grand time there also,, There was a salesman there,, I only remember his first name,,WALTER,,I cant remember his last name I need to contact him,,But his last name eludes me,,He was a follower of IAN RAND,,and read all of her books and had tapes of her lectures,, When KWMU changed there broadcasting format,,I stopped recording for them and Berry Hufker whent on to teaching at Webster University,,,

wolfshead
02-18-2010, 11:08 AM
Lloyd Smith and I were very good friends , as was Bob Shaw and his son.
Lloyd's beginning system was University speakers , than Jensen Imperials and
finally Bozak Tri-amp Concert Grands , first using 6 Marantz model 9's and finally
Audio Research. Lloyd played saxaphone with a leading band and did some work with the St.Louis symphony at Washington University.

John Marshall was a very nice person , his wife ran the audio shop and he his restaurant.

Ruddy Bozak visited Lloyd on several occasions. Lloyd at one time had one Hartsfield which he sold.

It was a grand time, Lloyd and I would visit Chicago to attend the audio shows. A few old MGM sound men would visit Shaw's store. One assisted in the camera work when Fred Astaire danced on the ceiling in the film "Royal Wedding " It was a grand time.
We may have met.:)

Maron Horonzakz
02-18-2010, 05:00 PM
Loyed Smith was quite the gentilman,, he used to snack on a stick of butter with a touch of honey... His audio setup was always the grandest,,Lp records in shelves stacked to the ceiling,,,Yes those Marantz Mod 9,s looked great I dont know if you knew John Marshall flew Jet fighters,,He also had quite a history,Loved his restraunt under the Audio store,That special beef sandwich and the cleopatra ice cream for dessert,, With the McIntosh audio system & JBL,s in the background ,, Judge Cahill used to hang out there,,The last time I was in the new Thomas Eagleton Federal building,, There was Cahill,s portrate on the wall,,He also had a great audio system,, OOOOOhh those were the days..

wolfshead
02-19-2010, 09:16 AM
Loyed Smith was quite the gentilman,, he used to snack on a stick of butter with a touch of honey... His audio setup was always the grandest,,Lp records in shelves stacked to the ceiling,,,Yes those Marantz Mod 9,s looked great I dont know if you knew John Marshall flew Jet fighters,,He also had quite a history,Loved his restraunt under the Audio store,That special beef sandwich and the cleopatra ice cream for dessert,, With the McIntosh audio system & JBL,s in the background ,, Judge Cahill used to hang out there,,The last time I was in the new Thomas Eagleton Federal building,, There was Cahill,s portrate on the wall,,He also had a great audio system,, OOOOOhh those were the days..
I knew John Marshall quite well . He had excellent resturants. Judge Cahill , used Klipschorns as his main speaker system.
Lloyd Smith and my wife were also friends. . I met
Lloyd in 1958 while shopping in Aeolian. Lloyd was sort of a mentor.

I had purchased Stephens for my first speaker system at Aeolian. Stephens were excellent speakers. At that time audiophiles were making the change from mono to stereo. Stereo records than were not very good. I bought only a few stereo records , mostly mono records,
which are now very valuable. Example Miles Davis " Kind of Blue " in mono.
That Lp in mono now sells for several hundred dollars. stereo much less.

Times were different, component Audio was new, Eisenhower was President. An ice cream cone was still a nickle and a coke a dime.
And men really respected women , oh yes and Hollywood had a " code of
decency " A male actor when he got in bed with a women had to keep one foot on the floor. Living together without marriage was unacceptable.
Those were the days !

RocknRum
02-19-2010, 02:17 PM
one of Frank's original engineers who now at 83 has high tech hearing aides that allow him to hear as well as he did at 18. Apparently these hearing aides are connected to a computer and can be electronically equalized to give you correct hearing once again.

I am sure they are horrifically expensive, but at least there is hope that we'll still be able to enjoy our systems and the high frequencies ;) well into our '80s... if we have the means.

Widget

It was about 5 years ago that I heard Sony had a patent for an audio/video device which would bypass your ears and eyes and enable your brain to experience sound and vision like you were young or even better. It's yet to be invented. But if it were, it would kinda take the fun out of it, wouldn't it. This is why I don't post more often. I don't wanna bring everybody down.:D

jerry_rig
02-19-2010, 08:19 PM
Listening to (or rather reading) Maron and Wolf brings back many memories for me. I too (like BMW) grew up in St. Louis and bought my first JBL kits from HiFi Showroom (and from Hi-Fi-Fo-Fum). And in early 1974, Bob Shaw once took me to a house next door to his store -- with big old Bozaks in the corner -- to show off Pink Floyd playing through Audio Research magnaplanar speakers. Yes, the good old days!

Maron Horonzakz
02-19-2010, 08:30 PM
Hi Fi Fo Fum is still standing,,,, Hi Fi Showroom,,Hi Fi West, Bob Shaws place, Napper Radio ,Aeolian,Van Sickle are long gone,,

BMWCCA
02-19-2010, 09:46 PM
Listening to (or rather reading) Maron and Wolf brings back many memories for me. I too (like BMW) grew up in St. Louis and bought my first JBL kits from HiFi Showroom (and from Hi-Fi-Fo-Fum). I most likely already mentioned this but my Fisher SA-1000 and my Mac C-20 (which I still have) came from Best Sound which I believe was near where Hi-Fi Fo Fum is now, on Brentwood Blvd. Was the owner's name Les Marcus or something like that?

One of my Dad's regular nights out was with the whole family at the Lotus Room restaurant down the block from Best Sound. #7, shrimp in lobster sauce was the favorite for both of us.

wolfshead
02-20-2010, 08:01 AM
I most likely already mentioned this but my Fisher SA-1000 and my Mac C-20 (which I still have) came from Best Sound which I believe was near where Hi-Fi Fo Fum is now, on Brentwood Blvd. Was the owner's name Les Marcus or something like that?

One of my Dad's regular nights out was with the whole family at the Lotus Room restaurant down the block from Best Sound. #7, shrimp in lobster sauce was the favorite for both of us.

Les Marcus worked for Harvey Bender at HIFI West as a salesman and later opened his own store on Brentwood Blvd.

Hi-Fi Fo Fum first open on Big Bend near Hwy 1-40. The Fisher SA-1000
was an outstanding tuner. Goes for a very nice price on Ebay today.
I owned a Fisher 200B , not as good as the SA-1000.

Fisher produced excellent audio equipment before it was sold to Superscope. Avery Fisher was an excellent founder of that company
a man who loved music , Avery Fisher hall is an example of Mr.Fisher's
love for the arts.

wolfshead
02-20-2010, 08:07 AM
Listening to (or rather reading) Maron and Wolf brings back many memories for me. I too (like BMW) grew up in St. Louis and bought my first JBL kits from HiFi Showroom (and from Hi-Fi-Fo-Fum). And in early 1974, Bob Shaw once took me to a house next door to his store -- with big old Bozaks in the corner -- to show off Pink Floyd playing through Audio Research magnaplanar speakers. Yes, the good old days!
If you had gone to Bob Shaw's home it would have blew your mine.
He used his garage for his speaker enclosure. The bass was unbelivable !
Bob was using 6 audio Research mono power amps.

I built a Bozak speaker system from kits. The Symphonys.
We had a lot of fun.

scott fitlin
02-20-2010, 01:24 PM
Les Marcus worked for Harvey Bender at HIFI West as a salesman and later opened his own store on Brentwood Blvd.

Hi-Fi Fo Fum first open on Big Bend near Hwy 1-40. The Fisher SA-1000
was an outstanding tuner. Goes for a very nice price on Ebay today.
I owned a Fisher 200B , not as good as the SA-1000.

Fisher produced excellent audio equipment before it was sold to Superscope. Avery Fisher was an excellent founder of that company
a man who loved music , Avery Fisher hall is an example of Mr.Fisher's
love for the arts.Didn't Marantz become Superscope?

wolfshead
02-20-2010, 02:59 PM
I heard a pair of Hartsfields once playing Pink Floyd and I thought there was very much that sounded wonderful even if there were faults I could also hear.

I would love to have a modern version of that system today!!!

Regards, Ron
There was a company , Classic Audio Reproductions offered Hartsfields for sale in 1998. I don't think they are still in business. They had a price list which I can't find.

Not only are they expensive to build , one must have two corners walls. A problem for most homes. They weight 280 pounds each.
Sound Reproductions Hartsfeilds had a cutoff point at 800 cps. The older Hartsfield cutoff point was 500 cps.

If the source material is not excellent the Hartsfields will expose it.
Big speaker systems simply did not survive stereo. Especially front loaded horns. When used as mono speakers they were great.

The Electro-Voice Patrician was also an outstanding front loaded horn.
The Klps less because of poor drivers. Tannoy and Jenson built excellent rear loaded horns. They did not need corners.

wolfshead
02-20-2010, 03:02 PM
Didn't Marantz become Superscope?
Yes. Saul Marantz worked for Superscope as a consulant. Their 3800 pre-amp , 150 tuner and 510M power amp was quite good , but expensive for the times. All transistors.

scott fitlin
02-20-2010, 03:16 PM
Yes. Saul Marantz worked for Superscope as a consulant. Their 3800 pre-amp , 150 tuner and 510M power amp was quite good , but expensive for the times. All transistors.I have seen 70,s Marantz recievers that had the Superscope name engraved on the front panel as well as the Marantz name.

Bgymnastics
04-04-2017, 07:16 PM
76517

Bgymnastics
04-04-2017, 07:18 PM
76517

can wait to see what these sound like. Just got them 2 days ago.

srm51555
04-04-2017, 07:39 PM
Nice pickup

BMWCCA
04-04-2017, 10:42 PM
Nice pickupAnd thanks for reviving this old thread that had me walking down the St. Louis Memory Lane, again! :)

Ricpan
04-04-2017, 11:20 PM
I have a beautiful set of original 4345's that may not be "THE Best" but they are the best I'll ever have. Running them with McIntosh gear. I also have a set of Bozaks Concert Grands that is beautifully different.

vinny
04-22-2017, 12:58 AM
The question should have been rephrased and entitled. What Jbl is the most musical ever or most beautiful sonically?

timca
04-24-2017, 06:43 PM
At my house, XPL200A with active crossovers (2 BSS FDS360s), bi-amping, outperformed my 4341, L300 by big margins.

Another guy here: http://www.audiophilenirvana.com/audiophile-equipment-reviews/jbl-xpl-200a-holy-grail/

XPL200A with active crossover (DX-1), bi-amping, outperformed his 4345

BMWCCA
04-25-2017, 07:07 AM
:) Not to be argumentative or overly biased toward the 4345 but the reviewer used a sub and said an improvement to the XPLs would be found in replacing their 12-inch woofer with an LE14. That seems to put a rather large hole in their superlative-laced review.

Only one reply compared them to that person's 4345 but we have no idea whether or not they were running their 4345 in bi-amp, or not, or bypassing the switch, or with modern network mods as GT has recommended. I have no doubt the XPLs are great speakers—and I'd purchase a pair in a heart-beat—but to draw your conclusion from a two-sentence comparison to the 4345 with its 18-inch woofer seems a bit of a stretch. :dont-know:

I drew a different conclusion from the review based on this comment from the reviewer:
The XPL-200A may be the perfect home audio reproduction system. Unlike professional monitors such as the JBL LSR6332 and M2, the XPL-200A approaches the level of detail required for professional mastering, but stops just short of the extreme levels needed in the studio. The LSR6332 and M2 systems are too revealing of the recording, and allow the listener to hear every studio error. They take the enjoyment out of listening to many older recordings. Whereas the XPL-200A, by stopping just short of this level of detail, makes listening to many older recordings more pleasant than on any other loudspeaker system we’ve ever experienced.

I experienced this same phenomenon when I first got my 4345s (bi-amp clones with CC networks). Good recordings sounded great and bad ones sounded worse. I have over a dozen JBLs with more laid-back sound if I want to intentionally mute the flaws of a bad recording. But I keep the 4345s in the main system specifically for their ability to reproduce everything the source has to offer. I can still enjoy any recording but I appreciate the good ones even more.

If I was interested in purchasing a compromising system to mask recording flaws or inadequacies, I'd be more accepting of the reviewer's comments, but I have an EQ for that! To the contrary, he tries to put forth the limits of the system as a feature and then claims to have found "the Holy Grail of Audio?" Note his question mark which implies (to me) rhetoric and hyperbole.

:cheers:

Don C
04-25-2017, 07:23 AM
I own the XPL200s, and bi-amplified them with the Mark Levinson LNC-2 crossover. Bi-amping was a small upgrade. Adding aqualpas to the midrange drivers was a larger upgrade. But even with those changes, switching to the Performance series PT800 and PS1400 was a step up from the XPLs. Too bad about the unreliability of the electronics in those. And the M2 clones that I have built are a huge upgrade from either one of those. So the XPLs are good, but they probably don't belong in a discussion of the very best JBLs.

timca
04-25-2017, 10:05 AM
Sorry for the confusion.

My original post was referring to the comments at the bottom of the page from Kang Sound (https://disqus.com/by/kangsound/)

Kang Sound (https://disqus.com/by/kangsound/) • a month ago (http://www.audiophilenirvana.com/audiophile-equipment-reviews/jbl-xpl-200a-holy-grail/#comment-3201332597)

Review is spot on... just set this up with the DX-1 setting with a Chord Mezzo 75 for the high's with the Nuforce reference 9SE Monoblocks for the Bottom with the Chord Prima Pre Amp and One Cd Player and the Dave Dac...... Much better than my JBL 4345's... extremely detailed , airy, and t precise tight bass .


I only compared the XPL200A with 4341 and L300 myself. I do not have 4345. I agree that XPL200 need some help from bass section.

I have a pair of JBL 4645Cs to go with XPL200A. That was why I am using a pair of BSS FDS360s for 3 way stereo configuration:
250Hz - 65Hz for 2214H-1 in XPL200A
65Hz and below for 2242H in 4645C

Cheers,

hlaari
04-25-2017, 12:42 PM
Best JBL ever?

I would say DD65000, DD66000, DD67000, K2-S9900 and M2 come close to them

I have not heard any of this models but I have play with all of the driver parts that are using in them
I have listening to M2 clone speakers with the original parts and also with 1501Al-1 and 476Be and for me K2 and Everest parts are slightly better than 2216Nd and D2430K


Ari

BMWCCA
04-25-2017, 02:03 PM
Sorry for the confusion.

My original post was referring to the comments at the bottom of the page from Kang Sound (https://disqus.com/by/kangsound/)Yes, and my comments were about that part of your post. I said there was one sentence in two-sentence comment comparing the XPL to the 4345. Who knows what that 4345 owner is doing with original crossovers, goofy bi-amp switch, etc. I suspect the L7 may have a better LF driver than the XPL. Seems like a lot of people are passing around a pair of XPLs and writing Internet content as a result. Someone must have been padding an Ebay auction! Let me know when you see a pair for a reasonable price and I'll set up a comparison between the XPL200, 250ti, L7, 4345, and L150A and report back! :D

Ian Mackenzie
04-26-2017, 12:23 AM
I guess this is what makes it such an interesting field.

My perception is that certain listeners focus on a set of subjective nuances while ignoring others.

I mean why do some listeners crave the latest Quad electrostatics and hate other dynamic loudspeakers?

I personally found the 4343 st John Nebels stomped on the LSR 6332 monitors as they sounded compressed compared to the 4343s.

We also compared Johns 4435, they are one of my all to
E favourites. They have superior speed and midrange Clarity over the 4430😂.

That means the M2 is a winner in my book

hsosdrum
04-26-2017, 11:33 AM
I guess this is what makes it such an interesting field.

My perception is that certain listeners focus on a set of subjective nuances while ignoring others.

I mean why do some listeners crave the latest Quad electrostatics and hate other dynamic loudspeakers?



Because at best, audio reproduction creates the illusion that real humans are making music in real time, and different people are satisfied by different illusions. There is no such thing as audio reproduction that 100% of listeners will interpret as being 100% accurate (or 100% satisfying) 100% of the time.

sweet212
04-27-2017, 08:20 AM
Because at best, audio reproduction creates the illusion that real humans are making music in real time, and different people are satisfied by different illusions. There is no such thing as audio reproduction that 100% of listeners will interpret as being 100% accurate (or 100% satisfying) 100% of the time.

IMHO there is to much emphasis on reducing coloration in speakers. All speakers have coloration's some are more than others but what is important to me is does the coloration bother you?

My 1400's are neutral and mellow particularly when A - B with my old L212's. They are chesty, honky and edgy and alive - the coloration's add to the sound.

1audiohack
04-27-2017, 11:13 AM
IMHO there is to much emphasis on reducing coloration in speakers. All speakers have coloration's some are more than others but what is important to me is does the coloration bother you?

My 1400's are neutral and mellow particularly when A - B with my old L212's. They are chesty, honky and edgy and alive - the coloration's add to the sound.

This is where I get to the "there is no perfect system" so I have to have several to be happy.

Example, my 4350's have Everest drivers and are multi amped with powerful DSP and if I chase the flat lines (magnitude and phase) too far they loose the "life" that I love when they are less processed. My big Ubangi/Community stack suffers this as well.

This may very well be due to my personal integration limitations but there is an edginess that I and many of my friends associate with live music.

I have 1400's as well and I love them, but, they are not the end all for me.

Barry.

Vahe Sahakian
04-27-2017, 12:27 PM
4350 for dynamics.
DD55000 for looks

Ian Mackenzie
04-27-2017, 03:15 PM
question for all memebers

1. What was/is the best jbl ever...(price no object)?

2. What was the best value jbl speaker given price and performance.

1. M2
2. 4311

My reasoning is simple
The M2 is the most technologically advanced design that delivers real world advancement in audio reproduction not offered in any prior JBL design

You might ask the definition of best ever? Each to his own

The 4310:4311 sold more an any other jbl

BMWCCA
04-27-2017, 06:32 PM
The 4310:4311 sold more an any other jblMay have made them a "best value given price and performance" when they were introduced, but would be tough to argue today given what they're selling for now and what else is available.
:hmm:

Tony Sullivan
04-27-2017, 07:55 PM
The 4310:4311 sold more an any other jbl
Actually, to be a bit more exact that honor would have to go to the L100 as far as sales figures go - and possibly keeping JBL solvent and intact
Best too as far as fame, recognition by more folks - even those who could care less - and changing the audio world as well (and how we listened to music for decades)
From a purely historical perspective most decidedly the most considerable conspicuous and influential
I try to avoid the word "best" whenever possible in conversations like these - "most" would be more appropriate for me

JoeNelis
04-28-2017, 05:27 AM
4350 for dynamics.
DD55000 for looks

Agree. I own both of these speakers and there amazing. JBL DD55000 are the best looking speaker ever made in my opinion and have a soundstage like nothing i've ever heard period.



joe.

Challenger604
04-28-2017, 06:30 AM
Agree. I own both of these speakers and there amazing. JBL DD55000 are the best looking speaker ever made in my opinion and have a soundstage like nothing i've ever heard period.



joe.


The 4355's are above the 4350's.

1audiohack
04-28-2017, 06:51 AM
The 4355's are above the 4350's.

How's that?

Asking, not challenging.

Barry.

Ian Mackenzie
04-29-2017, 01:06 AM
Actually, to be a bit more exact that honor would have to go to the L100 as far as sales figures go - and possibly keeping JBL solvent and intact
Best too as far as fame, recognition by more folks - even those who could care less - and changing the audio world as well (and how we listened to music for decades)
From a purely historical perspective most decidedly the most considerable conspicuous and influential
I try to avoid the word "best" whenever possible in conversations like these - "most" would be more appropriate for me


I agree

The questions are open to interpretation

Any who has had the pleasure of owning or using the L100:4320/4311 knows how much fun they are .

Even Pete Townsend of The Who loves the 4311.

They are Legendary in the industry even if there are more modern equivalents

BMWCCA
04-29-2017, 04:04 AM
Even Pete Townsend of The Who loves the 4311.Love? We know how he expresses love. I wonder how many SG necks he's driven through the 2213s? :dont-know:

Challenger604
04-29-2017, 05:51 AM
How's that?

Asking, not challenging.

Barry.

Better drivers. 2441 and 2235's.

Mr. Widget
04-29-2017, 08:33 AM
How's that?

Asking, not challenging.

Barry.More modern and sophisticated network.

Is it night and day? Probably not.


Widget

Mr. Widget
04-29-2017, 08:48 AM
4350 for dynamics.
DD55000 for looksI like your thinking... different JBLs excel in different areas.

I'd suggest the DD67000 for musical enjoyment.
M2 for laboratory accuracy - if that's your thing.

For aesthetics in no particular order:
Paragon
Hartsfield
Bel Aire
Harlan
Aquarius IV


Widget

ngccglp
04-29-2017, 02:50 PM
4350/55 no doubt. JBL puts double woofers on the map. The ability to recreate the sounds of the drum kit at 'live' levels is uncanny. 4345 a close second.

sweet212
04-29-2017, 08:46 PM
4350/55 no doubt. JBL puts double woofers on the map. The ability to recreate the sounds of the drum kit at 'live' levels is uncanny. 4345 a close second.

I hope no one is offended but IMO after owning a pair of 4350's for many years I was disappointed.

Never completely happy with there sound - congested and gritty in the top end. Sure they could handle a lot of power but that had me reaching for the volume knob. They certainly looked the goods - top of the line components at the time but never quite came together.

A - B ing them with a pair of L212"s - you don't want to know.

ngccglp
04-29-2017, 11:02 PM
I hope no one is offended but IMO after owning a pair of 4350's for many years I was disappointed.

Never completely happy with there sound - congested and gritty in the top end. Sure they could handle a lot of power but that had me reaching for the volume knob. They certainly looked the goods - top of the line components at the time but never quite came together.

A - B ing them with a pair of L212"s - you don't want to know.

None taken, just sharing our experiences with these fine JBL products. I was under the same impression for my first set of 4350A. Just couldn't get it to sound the way I wanted. Sold it after about a year. But then a thought kept nagging at me, if you believe in the JBL hierarchy, why would JBL called it a 'cost no object' design? Good enough for large studios? Hmm... I started thinking to myself maybe it's because I did not set it up right. And those damn video clips from Kenrick Sound website... So when I saw another pair of 4350A I went for a deuce. This time I took the time to really fine tune the 5235 and I made sure I got the correct cards.
I am convinced now it is indeed a 'cost no object' design and it's not just because of the power handling. It's like the musicians are in front of you in full scale.

Ian Mackenzie
04-30-2017, 02:26 AM
Unfortunately none of this older stuff is plug and play

But my understanding is the 4355 crossover makes an improvement (see Giskards 4355 crossover posts)


Mr Widget had a lot of experience with the 4350.

KTG
04-30-2017, 06:04 AM
Hi all, since 4350's are being discussed was wondering if there is an eq that might be computer controlled for my 4350's. they sound really good but show all the good, bad and ugly in each recording. My settings are a happy medium for all the music I listen to. Can't make adjustments for each recording. Just was thinking about this. not sure if this is relevant or even desirable to do if there was such a piece of equipment or how this would even work. If this question is goofy sorry. thanks

ngccglp
05-01-2017, 02:53 AM
Hi,

i ordered my 5235 cards from Kenrick sound. I think Kenrick followed the original schematic but and used better components. They have cards for all models of 43 series. I tried other XO but the 5235 with the right cards just sounds right. Write them.

cheers.

Vahe Sahakian
05-01-2017, 08:01 AM
Hi,

i ordered my 5235 cards from Kenrick sound. I think Kenrick followed the original schematic but and used better components. They have cards for all models of 43 series. I tried other XO but the 5235 with the right cards just sounds right. Write them.

cheers.

I have pairs of older 5234 activecrossovers, one with 250Hz card and the other with 290Hz card, I have triedboth with my DIY 4350 and hear no difference at all.

Vahe

sweet212
05-07-2017, 08:04 PM
I remember hearing a pair of 4340's in a small studio. I really wanted a pair unfortunately they were all sold out at the time. 15" woofer, 10" lower mid and the smaller horn, 2420 I think. IMO the 10" was snappy and the horn was smoother than the larger 2440.

They sounded incredible - best JBL studio monitor I've ever heard. The louder - the better they sounded.

Woofer
05-07-2017, 08:21 PM
I wouldn't know which are the 'best ever', as I've heard sooooo many in my lifetime of audio 'dabbling', as I'm sure many out there can pro'ly say the same, BUT one thing I do know, is that most JBL's sound BEST, just before they blow up. I'm hoping some of you will know what I mean…. ;)

mat
01-20-2018, 11:51 AM
"For aesthetics in no particular order:
Paragon
Hartsfield
Bel Aire
Harlan
Aquarius IV


Widget[/QUOTE]"

Hello,

you write Aquarius IV "for aesthetics"...Somewhere it's true. But they are the only one to offer such a sound!

I've got a question: what do you think about this association: two QSC bridged mono, that's to say 300W + 300W for the Aquarius? Of course, not to use the full power, but just for the dynamic and the space the power amps will give?
I would be glad to have your opinion and those of other members too:bouncy:

edgewound
01-20-2018, 01:00 PM
"For aesthetics in no particular order:
Paragon
Hartsfield
Bel Aire
Harlan
Aquarius IV


Widget"




Hello,

you write Aquarius IV "for aesthetics"...Somewhere it's true. But they are the only one to offer such a sound!

I've got a question: what do you think about this association: two QSC bridged mono, that's to say 300W + 300W for the Aquarius? Of course, not to use the full power, but just for the dynamic and the space the power amps will give?
I would be glad to have your opinion and those of other members too:bouncy:

Headroom is nice to have, but that is just overkill for this model's capability. The LE8T woofer is a 25 watt driver. 6dB of headroom gets you to 100 watts.

Mr. Widget
01-20-2018, 01:25 PM
you write Aquarius IV "for aesthetics"...Somewhere it's true. But they are the only one to offer such a sound!

I've got a question: what do you think about this association: two QSC bridged mono, that's to say 300W + 300W for the Aquarius? Of course, not to use the full power, but just for the dynamic and the space the power amps will give?
I would be glad to have your opinion and those of other members too:bouncy:To make sure I'm understanding your post, do you have a pair of Aquarius IVs and like their sound, but want to get the most from them?


Widget