SUB1500 vs W1500H vs non JBL

[baldrick]

I'm about to replace my subwoofer setup and have 4 alternatives, either way it's going to be a pair for 15s powered by a Crown K2.
- JBL SUB1500
- JBL W1500H
- Aurasound NS15 (http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=81)
- TC Sound TC3000/Audiopulse Axis (http://www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoofer-drivers/axis)

I need it ofcourse to sound good on music but equal important, also be able to play loud and deep on movies.

In a max 4ft^3 box, it should play equal loud and deep as my previous pair of 2245, does this make any of them disqualified/qualified?

[mikebake]

The sub1500 thread has graphs comparing the 2245H and the sub1500.

[Mr. Widget]

First question that comes to my mind is, can you get all of those? The Sub1500 and the Aurasound are both discontinued. The W1500H is still made but isn't really available and more over it is getting more and more difficult to get non pro JBL drivers... a few slip though the cracks, but recently when I attempted to buy some JBL Synthesis drivers through "proper channels" I was told flat out that "JBL does not sell raw drivers." This message did not come from some local dealer that was uninterested in dealing with Harman... this message was a voice from above.

I can't comment on the TC Sound woofer as I have never heard their products, and I am not sure which Aurasound sub that I have heard, but knowing the owner it would have been the best they offered... it was fine.

My typical comment on the Sub1500 is that it offers incredible clean deep bass while still sounding like music... in small sealed boxes some electrical encouragement is required, but if you use a DSP like the Velodyne SMS-1 or my new favorite, the Audyssey Sub Equalizer, that is easily handled. The only thing wrong with the Sub1500, aside from the difficulty in getting them, is that their maximum SPL is not as high as a few other subs... typically two to four are required for larger rooms doing HT duty.

I don't have any first hand experience with the W1500H. It appears to be a Sub1500 with slightly less distortion and a tiny bit more headroom.


Widget

[baldrick]

Yes I can probably get them all, Aurasound, TC Sound and W1500H is available for me here in Norway and if I should go for SUB1500 I can probably get a pair used from the U.S. But I'm afraid the price for used SUB1500 is almost equal as new W1500H so probably that will not be an issue. The problem is that I've never heard either of the JBLs and are inface a bit concerned about the lack of SPL in the bottom. A pair of 2245 does it for me but from what you are saying, does this mean that SUB1500 will not match the SPL from 2245?

The Aurasound is supposed to be a great driver but I've never heard them either, they are i.e. used in the highend woofer Adam Tensor SW393 (http://www.adam-audio.com/de/home-audio/products/sw393/description) (cost aprox twice of Array 1500).

I've had several lower ends TC Sound woofers and they are good, they can produce extreme amount of SPL for movies but haven't been quite up there in SQ for music and need big boxes, but TC3000 is supposed to be better than those I've had before.

I think the Velodyne SMS-1 is WAY overpriced, it's outdated and not worth the price. The Audyssey Sub EQ is MUCH better than the Velodyne, but instead of the Audyssey you could buy the cheaper SVS AS-EQ1 which is excat the same box as Audyssey Sub EQ :) Both are great but the miss on importang function for me... custom target curves! It's said to maybe be implemented in the future but I don't think it's available yet.

On the other hand... my HT receiver uses the same Audyssey bass management (MultEQ-XT) as is used in both Audyssey SUB EQ and SVS and gives the same result.

BUT... the most impressive tiny little bass EQ I've been useing is the Antimode 8033 (http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml), it costs 1/4 of the SVS and sound in fact even better!!
Here are some recent graphs in my room showing without EQ (green), Audyssey (purple) and Antimode (blue) Don't know what's happening with the charts in the bottom since it doesn't show anything below 25hz, I probably did something wrong with the program :o:

http://avforum.no/forum/attachments/receivere-forsterkere/60487d1264022222-audssey-multeq-xt-sub-uten-antimode.jpg

[Mr. Widget]

Yes I can probably get them all, Aurasound, TC Sound and W1500H is available for me here in Norway...Lucky you!!!


A pair of 2245 does it for me but from what you are saying, does this mean that SUB1500 will not match the SPL from 2245? No, 2245s are a bit limited in VLF output too... the Sub1500/W1500H should match the 2245 or better it slightly.




On the other hand... my HT receiver uses the same Audyssey bass management (MultEQ-XT)... If it is a high end unit that will work with the Audyssey Pro software and dealer calibration, the newer 3.0 and later software will allow target curves... that should do it for you.


Widget

[baldrick]

If it is a high end unit that will work with the Audyssey Pro software and dealer calibration, the newer 3.0 and later software will allow target curves... that should do it for you.


For some VERY strange reason most Euro units does not have the possibilites for Audyssey Pro :biting: I.e. U.S. versions of Denon and Onkyo have the CI part that allows targe curves but not the same model in Europe. As far as I know the SVS EQ1 does not have this (yet) but maybe the Audyssey sub EQ have it even if it's supposed to be the same?

Anyway... I've just ordered a pair of bairly used Aurasound NS15 woofers and will probably get them on sunday, looking forward to :)

http://avforum.no/avtorget/data/12/large/Aura_-_11.jpg

[4313B]

If they're not going to make raw drivers available anymore for DIYers, I might as well look for a new hobby. :(The official word from JBL Consumer is absolutely no raw driver sales. This has actually been in effect since the mid '80's and I've had no less than a dozen different people reiterate that fact in the past year alone. The drivers you bought from Harman Parts are for owners of complete systems aka Finished Goods and come with a 90 day warranty (unless someone goofed and accidentally dropped one of those nice 5-year warranty cards in the box by mistake). Most of the TOTL parts (such as the W1500H) are NLA since Harman fired everyone in New York and WiPro (http://www.wipro.com) took over running Harman Consumer Group Parts. The TOTL gear went to the Synthesis Group which is now a completely distinct group outside of JBL Consumer.

[timc]

The drivers you bought from Harman Parts are for owners of complete systems aka Finished Goods and come with a 90 day warranty (unless someone goofed and accidentally dropped one of those nice 5-year warranty cards in the box by mistake).


Both 1200Fe's had that card. Does that mean it is valid, or a mistake?


Baldrick: Looking forward to your oppinion on the Auras.

-Tim

[4313B]

Both 1200Fe's had that card. Does that mean it is valid, or a mistake?Greg says JBL has to hold to it. :D

It's the law.

[timc]

[quote=4313B;276721]Greg says JBL has to hold to it. :D


<--- *Starts to boogie*


-Tim

[DS-21]

I'm about to replace my subwoofer setup and have 4 alternatives, either way it's going to be a pair for 15s powered by a Crown K2.
- JBL SUB1500
- JBL W1500H
- Aurasound NS15 (http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=81)
- TC Sound TC3000/Audiopulse Axis (http://www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoofer-drivers/axis)

I need it ofcourse to sound good on music but equal important, also be able to play loud and deep on movies.

In a max 4ft^3 box, it should play equal loud and deep as my previous pair of 2245, does this make any of them disqualified/qualified?

It's moot now, but I think you made the right call.

The TC3k/Axis is not even remotely in the same class as the other drivers mentioned. It has a motor with a peaky BL curve, and sky-high inductance. It's just not a high-fidelity driver, though if your use is limited to below maybe 40Hz I suppose it's acceptable. The one thing it does have is tons and tons of throw. The TC/AudioPulse drivers that are in this league are the LMS/LMT lines, and the new "pro" 18 with an Aura NRT motor.

I don't have anything bad to say about the SUB1500, and the W1500h is probably quite similar though I've never seen one in person. They're presumably both in the top echelon of conventional overhung subwoofers.

But the Aura is just a statement piece. The underhung neo-radial motor is a work of art and probably the most interesting engineering in speakers since the original JBL work on Faraday rings and the like. The suspension is just fantastically linear. Its inductance is so wonderfully low and build quality so high that it can be usefully used to 600-800 Hz. The only bad thing that can possibly be said about the NS15 is that it is expensive.

As for personal experience with it, my subwoofer system is anchored by an NS15-992-4A, with two Aura NS12-794-4A's on the floor and a crappy "designer" sub (Morel SoundSub 8) I plan to upgrade soon (probably to twin CSS Trio8's in a 4th order bandpass box) in the high-mounted position. I doubt the Aura NRT subs will ever leave my system. Or to put it another way, the NS15 makes me not upset that I didn't manage to get in on a quad of SUB1500's when PE was closing them out.