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View Full Version : Status of JBL decision to stop recone kits



robertbartsch
01-18-2010, 12:33 PM
OK, so does anyone know about the status of the decision of Harman to stop manufacturing cone/diaphram kits for drivers that are not currently being produced by the factory (e.g., the OEM "kits" for so-called JBL legacy drivers)?

Specifically:


1. Has this been officially announced and have the authorized JBL dealers and repair centers been notified?

2. What kits will be offered in the future; does their decision affect both recone kits and diaphragm kits?

3. What inventories are remaining and how long is the inventory expected to last?

4. Will the factory authorize third parties to manufacture replacements similar to parts for the auto industry?

5. If third parties will manufacture replacement parts, how long will it take to ramp up production?

Robh3606
01-19-2010, 03:53 AM
How many times are you planning to ask this??:blink: We don't know. With any luck it won't be anytime soon. As far as the rest of the questions? Are you kidding?? How would you would expect anyone to be able to answer them??

Rob:)

4313B
01-19-2010, 08:08 AM
"Harman has very little interest in supporting legacy product."

That statement is probably going on five or six years old now. We all know it is coming, no one knows when. Everyone knows we're living on borrowed time. I was told last summer to get everything I wanted now because it's all going to end. So far it hasn't. The point is, nobody knows when. They've moved the factory, they've fired a real good chunk of the American workforce, they've consolidated, they've outsourced, they've off-shored. I really don't know where on the list of things to do to cut costs supporting legacy product is. It's going to be just like various kits such as the C8R2203 and C8RLE59, one day they are available and the next day they aren't. I really don't think anyone cares either. Times change. Move on.

Akira
01-19-2010, 09:12 AM
He continues to be negative and act like a troll on this site - it amazes me he gets any responses ...
That's hitting below the belt. If you don't like someones NON OFFENSIVE post-- ignore it.

spkrman57
01-19-2010, 09:19 AM
In the OP this would be of the most interest for the DIY and vintage folks:

"4. Will the factory authorize third parties to manufacture replacements similar to parts for the auto industry?
"

I have to say it would be nice if JBL would license the rights for certain drivers/re-cone kits/diaphrams to someone to field this moderate requirements.

There just might be a company that is not hurting financially that might be able to reproduce these parts/drivers.

The price might be high, but it might be worthwhile to someone who loves the older gear.

Just my 2 cents worth!

Ron

robertbartsch
01-19-2010, 03:21 PM
This is a story about the failed acqusition of Harman by private equity firm KKR.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/21/news/companies/harmon_kardon.fortune/index.htm

It provides some background to this issue and highlights what can happen to a company when someone new arrives at the helm and decides to streamline things and produce high profits and cut costs.

Anyway, apparently, the restructuring, plant closings, product shift, legacy parts shutdown, etc. have all done "wonders" (??) for the price of the shares.

In the last year Harman International shares (HAR) have risen from $10 to $35 per share!!!!!!!!!

I hate to see the legacy parts business shut down and jobs moved overseas but that is capitalism and that is the way man kind generates wealth and sustains a high standard of living.

****
Anyway, I assume that if I have a contract with Harman for sales, parts and repair and they decide to stop making parts that I have lost some value. So perhaps, the Harman lawyers are telling the company to not announce any changes to dealers and such.

I have no idea what really is happening ??? ...but the way the company has handled this seems very strange and that is why I have asked.

I can tell you this; the last frams I purchased were about 30% higher in price than one year ago. That must mean there is some hording going on and people believe legacy parts will become part of the Harman "history"

Mr. Widget
01-20-2010, 12:49 AM
That's hitting below the belt. If you don't like someones NON OFFENSIVE post-- ignore it.:yes:

Thanks for the post.



I hate to see the legacy parts business shut down and jobs moved overseas but that is capitalism and that is the way man kind generates wealth and sustains a high standard of living.:yes:


I hate to see the legacy parts business shut down and jobs moved overseas but that is capitalism and that is the way man kind generates wealth and sustains a high standard of living.:yes:


I hate to see the legacy parts business shut down and jobs moved overseas but that is capitalism and that is the way man kind generates wealth and sustains a high standard of living.That is the way some shortsighted people generate wealth.


I hate to see the legacy parts business shut down and jobs moved overseas but that is capitalism and that is the way man kind generates wealth and sustains a high standard of living.If you are successful enough at it you might sustain your family for generation or two, wildly successful (Rockefeller, Getty) perhaps several generations of your family, but in the big picture it is certainly not sustainable and is bad for the society as a whole.

Of course, capitalism isn't inherently flawed, like any system, it is all in how it is applied.

In any event, we are way off topic.


Widget

Punch
01-20-2010, 08:20 AM
Widget and Akira ;) :yes:

Ruediger
01-20-2010, 10:11 AM
I wonder if it is possible to define a minimal set of spare parts (cones and diaphragms) for maximal coverage of baskets and horn drivers.

To a certain degree cone kits are interchangeable ("goes-into-list"), and a D16R2450 fits into the elder drivers 375, 2440, 2441, 2445, 2446 etc.

Some driver models are improved versions of their predecessors, same basket and better voice coil / diaphragm. A spare part for the improved version could also be used for the predecessor.

The drivers could also be classified as belonging to one of three sets:

1.) Low resonance frequency, low efficiency, HiFi and studio use such as the 2235.
2.) Medium resonance frequency, medium efficiency, SR use such as the 2225.
3.) High resonance frequency, high efficiency, horn driver such as the 2220.

It would be sufficient ("better than nothing") to have few solutions (spare parts) for each set of drivers.

If a certain driver is picked to serve as a replacement for several drivers it should have similar TS parameters so that the enclosure does not need to be re-tuned.

What do You think about the feasibility of such a stripped-down wishlist?

Ruediger

robertbartsch
01-20-2010, 11:19 AM
...yeh, I suppose in the Harman case, the new CEO guy did the short sighted thing.... but afterall, Harmon, if not re-tooled, could have ended up like Altec Lansing and no one hear would advocate that!

If the marketplace sees a need, perhaps someone will step up, risk equity capital and produce quality legacy replacement parts like GPA did with the Altec tooling. I have tried some aftermarket stuff over the years and it stinks, so a different approach is needed IMO.

One possibility would be for someone to purchase the existing old tooling and to license the old legacy technology to create an OEM-like parts business that does not interfer with Harman's existing business lines.

The reason I am trying to keep current on this topic is that providing replacement parts was a unique part of JBL that, in part, made this company different from all the rest.

Unfortunately, now that aspect of the company is in serious doubt.

grumpy
01-20-2010, 12:57 PM
"This is not your father's Oldsmobile... and not your grandfather's America"

wishing will not make it so.

I don't see the point of publicly fretting over old speakers becoming more
difficult and costly to maintain.

robertbartsch
01-20-2010, 02:15 PM
...higher costs that will be incurred to maintain legacy JBL systems in the future does not bother me too much...

...Not have any OEM parts for maintenance of JBL legacy systems does bother me more than a tad, however...

grumpy
01-20-2010, 03:04 PM
Bothered enough to start up "San Marcos Audio"? ... if not, it's just a
wish and a disappointment. Next.

Eaulive
01-20-2010, 07:45 PM
I hate to see the legacy parts business shut down and jobs moved overseas but that is capitalism and that is the way man kind generates wealth and sustains a high standard of living.

The problem with this is that it may sustain a high standard of living for some people, now. Not a majority and certainly not your children (or mine) in 20 years.

We are making the Chinese stronger and ourselves (Americans, Europeans) weaker.

robertbartsch
01-29-2010, 10:20 AM
Our hobby just went - POOF!

hjames
01-29-2010, 10:33 AM
Our hobby just went - POOF!

Keep floggin' that dolphin buddy ...:applaud:

besides, there are MANY sources of drivers if Harman walks out of the aftermarket biz ...

Ian Mackenzie
01-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Perhaps you joined the forums 8 year too late. The recone thing has been known for several years. Those who are keen enough obtain after market surround kits for the sake if maintaining the vintage boat anchors.

Best you invest in some new 1200FE .

herki the cat
01-29-2010, 12:07 PM
[quote=Ruediger;276275]I wonder if it is possible to define a minimal set of spare parts (cones and diaphragms) for maximal coverage of baskets and horn drivers. To a certain degree cone kits are interchangeable ("goes-into-list"), and a D16R2450 fits into the elder drivers 375, 2440, 2441, 2445, 2446 etc.
[quote/]

Excellent Idea = Ruediger;276275, The JBL driver families i have much experience with are unique and quite elegant__aka the LE-175, & 275, LE-85, 2410, 2420, 375 & 2440, and the 2470 with its valuable phynolic "honk-free"diaphragm. The others have aluminum domes and phase plugs derived from Grandfather WECO 594-A, & tangetial suspenssions derived from WECO 555 driver;the 2470, 375, & 2440 have the trditional "half roll" edge from the 594-A.

All of these original JBL drivers have unique voicing significantly different from the later JBL drivers with dimpled surrounds & the "gorrilla" indestructable titanium. These old gems are still quite adequate and accurate. The new JBL products __"except for the
new magnificient Berylliums"__ do not have the same clear smooth mid-range sound of the old gems, still, many people do like the high frequency extention of the new JBL's & thats their business. The after-market replacments do not have the JBL sound. Original replacement 2420 and 375 JBL diaphragms are perfect for all the drivers in my group for which there is still a tremenous demand for original JBL parts.

BTW, Altec is not dead! GPA still supports every component ever made by Altec and Bill at GPA still has all of the Altec & WECO tooling including the 594-A WECO driver. It would be a good idea for some one to keep an eye on the JBL dumpsters__JBL will probably junk all the old JBL speaker tooling. Take the hint and pickup the JBL ventage speaker legand.


Cheers herki the cat

Rolf
01-30-2010, 02:43 PM
I guess I should use some money to buy re-cone kits to the different speakers in my system, and store them in a dark cool place. The ones installed now will probably play for about 10-15 years or so. Then when I install the stored kits it will play 15 years more. After that it does not matter because I probably won't be here anymore or wondering who I am.:p

speakerdave
02-03-2010, 01:04 PM
Maybe I'm missing something (it's happened before) but I think what has been announced is being overstated. I think Mexicans can make cone kits. I think Chinese can make cone kits, but because industrially China is the wild west right now much of the savings in manufacturing there is lost in substandard output and the cost of the level of oversight it takes to get what the factories say they will deliver. Of this much I am certain. My theory on the low quality of stuff coming out of China is that the above is not included in the calculations that justify the shift of manufacturing there and so some of the substandard product its allowed into the distribution stream.

Hopefully JBL will continue to run its own reconing business (if not here, in Mexico would be my preference) and not try to do it by contract.

SEAWOLF97
02-03-2010, 01:31 PM
My theory on the low quality of stuff coming out of China is that the above is not included in the calculations that justify the shift of manufacturing there and so some of the substandard product its allowed into the distribution stream.


I try not to buy "made in Ch1na" gear, but am quite certain that in 5 years or less they will be producing world class gear....I got my Denon AVR cheap because it had a cold solder...made in Ch1na, but the construction/materials are first rate... The label that we currently hang on China goods is the same one that we hung on "Made in Japan" goods in the 50's/60's. They turned it around as the Chinese will.

But all that said....the Chinese workers will start asking for bennies and the companies will move to even cheaper countries , just like our hometown company Nike has done...More and more is being made in VietNam now...but cheaper alternatives are always on the horizon....Haiti anyone ?

herki the cat
02-03-2010, 01:38 PM
Diamonds in The Dumpster
----------------------------
Hello, 3413B , hjames, Mr Wedget, fellow members, & BMWCCA, I just heard the axe fall on the JBL speaker replacement parts entity, not looking for a pat on the back, i am wondering if my reply to the: [quote=Ruediger;276275] proposal in the post referenced herein, has any merit or possibility of salvaging the tooling & drawings of the obsolete JBL speakers to carry on in the manner of Altec / GPA who now has repairs for every speaker ever made by Altec. They also repair other manufacturer's speakers. It is well known that Electro Voice & coherts did not want Altec's competition & they decided to buy Altec & kill Altec. It was a blood bath.

[quote=Ruediger;276275]=
"I wonder if it is possible to define a minimal set of spare parts (cones and diaphragms) for maximal coverage of baskets and horn drivers. To a certain degree cone kits are interchangeable ("goes-into-list"), and a D16R2450 fits into the elder drivers 375, 2440, 2441, 2445, 2446 etc.

[quote=herki the cat,277216]=
"Excellent Idea , To begin with, there are 100's of professional recording studios that still depend on the same ventage JBL speakers for "mastering their hit records" as well as LH Member Zilch, myself, and others who still dearly love the LE-175, 275, LE-85, 2410, 2420, 375 , 2440, & the 2470.

I previously stated: "BTW, Altec is not dead! GPA still supports every component ever made by Altec and Bill at GPA still has all of the Altec & WECO tooling including the 594-A WECO driver. It would be a good idea for some one to keep an eye on the JBL dumpsters__JBL will probably junk all the old JBL speaker tooling. Take the hint and pickup the JBL ventage speaker legand. [quote/]


Cheers herki the cat

LeonV
02-03-2010, 08:18 PM
I had my L112's reconed by Oldmics (great job!) this past November. After reading all of this, I'm glad I had it done. At the time, he told me that the factory had 67 recone kits in stock for the 128H driver. He commented to me, "how many 26 year old products can you still buy original parts for?"