new to forum & JBL 4345 [Archive] - Lansing Heritage Forums

tjnif

01-07-2010, 06:07 PM

Hi..., New to this forum but figured since I'm a proud owner of a pair of unmolested JBL 4345's...I should Join! My system consists of (at present time) 1 Mcintosh C2300 preamp w/ Telefunken ECC803s tubes, 2 Mcintosh MC2000 amps w/ Telefunken long plate 12AX7's, Triple Mica Siemens 12AT7's, TronSeven reference Phono preamp, Kubala Emotion Cables & Interconnects, PS Audio Premier, Basis Debut Signature Vacuum Hold Turntable, Graham Phantom ToneArm, Dynavector XV1s, Modded Brazilian Rswood Khorns, w/ ALK X-overs,ALK Trachorn, Crites Tweeter, Modded Klipsch Belles. I will post some Pics as soon as I can get my camera back from my Daughter!:applaud:

BMWCCA

01-07-2010, 07:30 PM

Hi..., New to this forum but figured since I'm a proud owner of a pair of unmolested JBL 4345's...I should Join!
Welcome! Impressive equipment list but what are you using with the 4345s? how long have you had them? Tell us your story!!!! (and pics, too!)

I feel so...inferior! My 4345s are probably among the most-molested here; cabinets from Chicago, loaded and custom CC crossovers built in NY, and dragged home to Virginia out of the snow in Connecticut just last January. They're powered by the same old transistor Crowns I've used for decades, with transistor pre-amp, transistor active crossover, 6Moons Moonshine cables, and a Sony DVD carousel as my primary source. I think I might have a few 12AX7s in my Mac C20 but that's upstairs in the bedroom. ;)

But seriously, tell us about yours. There are many here who love them and a few more who love them enough to have built their own. I always love to hear about other folks who love them, too.

I managed to buy all three of my daughters, and my wife, their own cameras—so they'd keep their hands off mine!

tjnif

01-07-2010, 08:18 PM

Welcome! Impressive equipment list but what are you using with the 4345s? how long have you had them? Tell us your story!!!! (and pics, too!)

I feel so...inferior! My 4345s are probably among the most-molested here; cabinets from Chicago, loaded and custom CC crossovers built in NY, and dragged home to Virginia out of the snow in Connecticut just last January. They're powered by the same old transistor Crowns I've used for decades, with transistor pre-amp, transistor active crossover, 6Moons Moonshine cables, and a Sony DVD carousel as my primary source. I think I might have a few 12AX7s in my Mac C20 but that's upstairs in the bedroom. ;)

But seriously, tell us about yours. There are many here who love them and a few more who love them enough to have built their own. I always love to hear about other folks who love them, too.

I managed to buy all three of my daughters, and my wife, their own cameras—so they'd keep their hands off mine!

Well, I'm using the equipment I have listed!! Eventually I "think" I'm gonna obtain 2 MC 501's cause those JBL's are sukcing the "heat" out of my MC2000 tube amps! The needles bounce to the right effortlessly.....not so w/ my Khorns,although they are rated at 105 db, and I think the JBL's are 95db??? Here's some pics on my junker camera ( not that I'm much better on the "better" camera... They are not consecutive serial #'s but I am the 3rd owner and they have never been touched or abused1 Original foam surrounds, ect....except for the "velcro" which I have just fixed and attached the lenses...

BMWCCA

01-07-2010, 11:14 PM

Well, I'm using the equipment I have listed!! Eventually I "think" I'm gonna obtain 2 MC 501's cause those JBL's are sukcing the "heat" out of my MC2000 tube amps! That's a fine looking collection of hi-fi equipment. I can imagine the 4345s putting a hurt on the Macs, especially if you're not bi-amping them. I'm wondering if the 18s might want more damping but I'd suppose one MC2000 would make a superb amp for the upper three drivers in the system. :dont-know

Thanks for sharing! :applaud:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=43477&stc=1&d=1262387664

tjnif

01-08-2010, 06:19 AM

I'm not sure bout that as it "only" puts out 130 watts. I might borrow a pait of 501's from audio classics in the near future and see what kind of difference it makes. I just paid 2 College tuitions so I dont think I'll be laying down any $$$$ for awhile....:eek: but I guess the consensus here is that Bi-amping is the way to go.

4313B

01-08-2010, 07:00 AM

but I guess the consensus here is that Bi-amping is the way to go.Except that it seems 95% of the owners don't want to hassle with it... It's too bad a full passive option was ever offered for it.

tjnif

01-08-2010, 07:18 AM

Except that it seems 95% of the owners don't want to hassle with it... It's too bad a full passive option was ever offered for it.
Yea...you can put me on that list too! But I know someone in upstate ny made some passive x-overs....katzaudio?? maybe he can make me a set. Mcintosh is also coming out w/ the MEN220 which is a combo electronic x-over/ room correction. I'll be checking that out for sure at audioclassics.com, they are only an hour from me (as is the Mcintosh factory)!:D

dkalsi

01-08-2010, 09:59 AM

Well, I'm using the equipment I have listed!! Eventually I "think" I'm gonna obtain 2 MC 501's cause those JBL's are sukcing the "heat" out of my MC2000 tube amps! The needles bounce to the right effortlessly.....not so w/ my Khorns,although they are rated at 105 db, and I think the JBL's are 95db??? Here's some pics on my junker camera ( not that I'm much better on the "better" camera... They are not consecutive serial #'s but I am the 3rd owner and they have never been touched or abused1 Original foam surrounds, ect....except for the "velcro" which I have just fixed and attached the lenses...

Tjnif,
I noticed you have Klipshorns. I too have Klipschorns (completely modified) and am currently in the proceeds of building a 4345 clone. I would love you hear your impression of the two speakers and how the compare.

If you wish we take this discussion off-line, please PM with contact info and I will get in touch with you.

Thanks,
Dhar

tjnif

01-08-2010, 10:50 AM

Tjnif,
I noticed you have Klipshorns. I too have Klipschorns (completely modified) and am currently in the proceeds of building a 4345 clone. I would love you hear your impression of the two speakers and how the compare.

If you wish we take this discussion off-line, please PM with contact info and I will get in touch with you.

Thanks,
Dhar

I don't think its necessary to take it off line as I'm sure lots of people would be interested.... For the record besides my Brazillian Khorns, I have 2 other pairs and 2 pairs of Klipsch Belles. I was gonna do this big Klipsch 7.1 system on a new house I ws gonna build....buisness ventures didn't materialize ,economy tanked, nuff said.... The Khorns definetly sound more "alive and in "your face". More dynamic and LOUD. I think its the perfect match w/ my MAC system. Thhe JBL's are NO slouch either, they are smoother sounding and the bass kinda "surrounds you" where the Khorn bass is "punchier" and more direct. Some may prefer the smoother sound the JBL's posses but personally I like the sound of my Khorns better. Now, I do believe that system configuration might be the contributing factor as the I do like it loud so perhaps with more powerfull quicker reacting amps (albeit,brighter sounding) might be the ticket for the JBL's. I think the tube saturation is bit to "mellow" for the big blue speakers. I will experiment w/ Bi- amping and using MC 501's in the future..... What mods have you done to your Khorns??? perhaps we can compare notes?? ( you can PM about this since it has no bearing on the Lansing site,whatever you think)... regards, tom

dkalsi

01-08-2010, 11:20 AM

tjnif

01-08-2010, 11:37 AM

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Tjnif,

I just sent you a PM about the upgrades I have made to my Klipschorns.

In regards to comparing the two, I way really hoping the JBL 4345 to blow an unmodified Klipschhorn out the water. My work in progress 4345 clones will cost me close to $4K in parts when all is said and done. A used pair of original JBL 4345 cannot be found less than $5K??? Alternatively, an unmolested Klipschorn can be found for $1,700-$2,100 all day. I know Klipsch uses cheap parts and cheap horns and cheap everything, but they sound d*amn good for the price you would pay to pick one up on the used market.

I am sure the JBL 4345s are in every way better, but I have yet to find it out if that improvement is worth the price difference (I really hope so).

Personally, I have no preference towards any one brand. Even though I spent close to $3,500 modifying my Klispchorns, I have no problem accepting that $500 used JBL L-100 could sound better (if that is infact the case). A good speaker is a good speaker, no matter what brand it is. With that said, because I am spending a ton of time and money building the 4345s, I sure hope the JBL 4345s sound better than the Klipschorns.

Remember now, My Khorns are not stock... I use the ALK wood Trachorn, Crites tweeter, ALK universal X-overs w/ sonicaps, and they are wired w/ solid silver Cardas. The woofer is stock as is the 1" alnico driver, but what a transformation! I just think the "shootout" is not fair w/ the JBL's giving up 10db in sensitivity is HUGE, hence the need for a more powerful amp. I'm sure if the khorns were not here I would be amazed w/ the JBL's! as an example I was at Audioclassics and we were comparing the New Klipsch Palladium and the Mac XR200's (I think $10K and $14K repectively) Same deal! The klipsch were in your face more dynamic and the Mac was smoother,not as loud but had better all around bass response, similar to the JBL's. The amps used were a MAC MC240 tube amp for Klipsch and SS MC402, for the MAC going through a tube C2300 preamp, switch ing back and forth. Boy did it sound AMAZING running both pairs together!! Thats the reason why I'm thinking running the 501's will have similar effect. After going back and forth EVERYONE there liked the XR200, including myself (and I AM biased for sure)!:banghead:

boputnam

01-08-2010, 11:54 AM

...I am the 3rd owner and they have never been touched or abused! Original foam surrounds...That may not be desireable. The foam degrades over time and must be replaced - the driver performance will be off it's Thiele-Small specs. You should consider getting them reconed by a trusted, JBL authorized, shop, using JBL kits. As well, that compression driver (possibly a 2421B, dependant upon the iteration) should be replaced. These fatigue with age, and again, their performance will be off-spec.

Except that it seems 95% of the owners don't want to hassle with it... It's too bad a full passive option was ever offered for it.Agreed. :(

tjnif

01-08-2010, 12:34 PM

That may not be desireable. The foam degrades over time and must be replaced - the driver performance will be off it's Thiele-Small specs. You should consider getting them reconed by a trusted, JBL authorized, shop, using JBL kits. As well, that compression driver (possibly a 2421B, dependant upon the iteration) should be replaced. These fatigue with age, and again, their performance will be off-spec.

Agreed. :( I undrstand that, but they look "Brand New",and is "plush" without any sign of degradation. How does one check to see if the compression driver is up to spec?? My Khorns are from 1972 and the drivers are fine.., but I appreciate the info as I am a newcomer to these speakers. Any advice or constructive criticism is appreciated I might add that they were always in awell kept enviroment and according to the previous owners they were NEVER pushed hard, as they were used with low power amps and it shows! Cones seem tight and it does sound pretty good but, you never can tell....

BMWCCA

01-08-2010, 02:28 PM

Yea...you can put me on that list too! But I know someone in upstate ny made some passive x-overs....katzaudio?? maybe he can make me a set. FWIW, Katzass Audio (Dave Brink) supplied the new/re-coned elements for my 4345s and also built the CC crossovers. My 4345s were Dave's 4345s. Lots of info/history referencing that on this site, pro and con, but the crossovers were built from the schematic provided here. Again, FWIW, those who've heard my system—including a long-time Klipsch dealer/owner—have mostly just listened in disbelief with jaws dropped, eventually developing a blissful smile.

So I had no choice but to bi-amp them and no way to compare them to non-biamp 4345s.

Frankly, back in the old days when you could actually go to shops and actually compare this stuff, I never found a Klipsch product I thought improved substantially upon my 030 JBLs in the large C37 boxes. I'm sure it's because I was but a stubborn, opinionated child at the time. Though I'm not sure much has changed in that respect! ;)

You might want to take in this thread, and the links within it, if you haven't already: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=171841#post171841 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=171841#post171841)

Personally, I found this one to be quite inspirational: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110349&postcount=3

4313B

01-08-2010, 02:55 PM

Personally, I found this one to be quite inspirational: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110349&postcount=3

Yep. Despite all the strikes against it I still think it is a very nice platform for a 4-way, 14-inch, 15-inch or 18-inch based loudspeaker system. Evidently other people do too.

Interestingly the loudspeaker that started it all and culminated in Greg finally jumping in to "help" the naysayers "get it" was the 250Ti and his urging me to charge couple a few pairs as well as aquaplas the 044Ti's. :) The whole point was to give adventurous people some options to try and if they liked them, keep them, and if they didn't then reverse them. In thirtysome years Greg has never steered me wrong.

I have nothing good to say about Klipsch loudspeakers. Well, except that they were Made in the U.S.A. That stood for something once and plenty of people liked them just fine. :)

Agreed. :(Yeah, it irritates me to have to build the passive 4-way versions. :p

boputnam

01-08-2010, 09:16 PM

I undrstand that, but they look "Brand New",and is "plush" without any sign of degradation...Many here, with far more experience than I, eschew any woofers with foam surrounds. It is real simple - they dry out / they degrade / they dessicate. It is real obsolescence, not imagined. Think about it - those cabinets are going-on 30-yrs old. Parts need refurbishing - and not only the networks. The parts that have PHYSICAL movement have fatigued.

So I had no choice but to bi-amp them and no way to compare them to non-biamp 4345s...I could compare, but the timing difference between going full passive and bi-amped was such that any comparision was mooted. It boiled-down to an overall appraisal. Not having heard yours, I'm guessing here, Phil, but they sound pretty astonishing bi-amped...? Same, here. No comparison.

I have nothing good to say about Klipsch loudspeakers. OT, but never been my taste... :no:, :no:, :no:

Yeah, it irritates me to have to build the passive 4-way versions. :p:rotfl: Now, back to those 'dreaded' 3145 mods... :bash:

dkalsi

01-08-2010, 09:23 PM

I have nothing good to say about Klipsch loudspeakers.

Yeah - There are many that would agree with you. They are certainly not everyones' cup of tea. That is exactly the reason why I am dying to hear how much better the JBLs are than Klipsch. I figure I come pare one of JBLs best from the era - the JBL 4345, with one of Klipsch best from the same era - the Klipschorns.

Like I said before, I sure hope the JBLs sound better.

Ian Mackenzie

01-08-2010, 10:16 PM

pos

01-08-2010, 10:24 PM

Many here, with far more experience than I, eschew any woofers with foam surrounds. It is real simple - they dry out / they degrade / they dessicate.

Can foam surrounds dry out?

tjnif

01-09-2010, 03:35 AM

About 10 years ago my pre- evolution to my current 4345 clone , a 350 watt x 350 watt bi amped 4 way setup using the 2245H , an audax 8 inch mid, 2397 horn and 2405 was compared to the big K horn locally.

The bass slam of the 2245H woofer biamped with sufficiently serious horse power leaves the K horn in its wake. The passive crossover makes the 4345 waffle.

The old big K horn using to sound impressive on direct disc demos like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ve_Got_the_Music_in_Me_(album) but that was about it.

Every album with the 4345 baimped is a re discovery.

You need to start biamping.

Noted some K horn enthusiasts are replacing the K horn mid with dual JBL 2123s.
Well I guess the verdict is not out....Cant wait to try out the Mcintosh MEN220....http://new.ecoustic.com/bbs/messages/10381/611991.html More info on the MAC unithttp://audioaficicionado.org/mcintosh-audio/2938-whos-getting-men220-seriously-thinking.html

Re. "the old big Khorn" w/ a few mods that "Old Khorn" will be pretty impressive! Anyone who has heard my speakers are FLOORED, many have spent $10K and more And are surprised how good they sound..... But cant wait to get the jbl's up to par!

boputnam

01-11-2010, 05:06 PM

Can foam surrounds dry out?Yes, they fail over time. Great when new, but not so much after years of use or storage.

pos

01-12-2010, 02:11 AM

I knew they can desintegrate with time, but not that they could dry out as lansalloy surrounds do.
I have a pair of drivers with foam surrounds that look quite hard, much harder than the brain new pair of surrounds from rick Cobbs I recently installed on a pair of 2214. I though foam surrounds could only soften with time not harden...
Time for a refoam?

boputnam

01-13-2010, 12:31 PM

It's basically the same result - they lose their compliance. Lansalloy becomes brittle/hardens; "foam" surrounds don't "soften", they completely fall apart.

I remember my first discovery of this - some 7+ years ago a friend was proudly showing me his L45 Flair's at a large party at his house. I was hearing no LF output, and asked if I could remove the grills. Egads - the foam surrounds on the 130A's had completely desiccated and was laying as flakes in the grill frame. :o:

Then, I went home and unearthed my Altec Lansing Model Nine's, which had been in storage for about 5-years. :(

That's how I found this place, then in it's infancy! :)

Time for a refoam?:yes: Yessir! And, a recone is preferred.

Chas

01-13-2010, 02:18 PM

Thanks
I am sure the JBL 4345s are in every way better, but I have yet to find it out if that improvement is worth the price difference (I really hope so).

Well as many have noted here before, the 4345's aren't plug and play. But, IMHO, they will reward you with some time, persistence and money spent. Take it slowly, one step at a time.

Once updated to as modern as possible (practical?) components, etc. the orignal design intent is still as viable today as it was in the seventies and eighties. Some may call it vintage, I don't think so. They do everything any monitor should and then some:

Wide dynamic range when bi-amped and powered appropriately
Low distortion (especially IM where the ear is very sensitive) and high SPL capability
Wide, flat frequency response
Smooth, effortless sound

What more could you ask for?

SMKSoundPro

01-13-2010, 03:59 PM

A used pair of original JBL 4345 cannot be found less than $5K???

Oh YES they CAN!!! I have never divulged the purchase price for mine, because of other's jealousy or envy, but they were less...WAY less!!!

I am glad to biamp them. I don't understand why you would want the any other way? Can someone help me to understand this fullrange passive logic, please?

4313B

01-13-2010, 04:40 PM

Can someone help me to understand this fullrange passive logic, please?Some people are too scared to buy a second amp and an active filter. It's pretty complicated stuff...

BMWCCA

01-13-2010, 05:30 PM

There was very little that was private about my 4345 "clone" purchase. They were offered here, at a fair price (<$4000), and I drove to hear them and picked them up for a even a bit less since I saved the seller a whole lot of trouble by helping him bring them down the curved entry stair and out into my van waiting in the snow—instead of having to ship them. Of course he did have to get his tractor to pull my van out of the front yard!

In about nine days it will have been a year since that experience. With all new components and no choice but to bi-amp them with an active crossover, I never had a chance to compare them to the completely passive stock setup.

So, what special piece of music should I play through them for our "anniversary"?

Maybe some day I'll buy an original, stock pair just for kicks!

boputnam

01-13-2010, 05:33 PM

Some people are too scared to buy a second amp and an active filter. It's pretty complicated stuff...:rotfl:

I guess that's why more and more manufacturers are building powered speakers - bi-amped with on-board DSP's. I heard a pair of L-Acoustics' teeniest offering, their 108P (http://www.l-acoustics.com/products-108p-42.html). It is pretty stunning, for a toaster-oven sized cabinet, and basically plug-and-play. They've done it all for you - no extra bits (amps, crossovers, group delay, cabinet EQ) needed.

I must say that the JBL VP7212MDP (http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=63&MId=2) is my single favorite monitor wedge. They continue to amaze me, please the artists and confound the monitor engineer! They are SO user friendly...

108P
http://www.l-acoustics.com/admin/product_img/big/1250253689.jpg (http://www.l-acoustics.com/products-108p-42.html#)
http://www.l-acoustics.com/img/product/108p_plan.jpg

Usable bandwidth (-10dB)

55 - 22k Hz
Nominal directivity (-6dB)

100° (± 15°) Axi-symmetric
Maximum SPL

125 dB ([FILL] preset)
Components

LF: 1 x 8’’ weather-resistant transducer
HF: 1 x 1.5’’ diaphragm compression driver
Electrical specifications

Input stage: balanced input, max level for 0 dB setting: + 12 dBu
DSP: 24 bit/48 kHz
Amplifier power rating: 1 x 500 W (4 ohms - LF), 1 x 250 W (8 ohms - HF)
Physical data

H x W x D: 421 x 250 x 299 mm - 16.6 x 9.8 x 11.8 in
Wedge angle: 30° with regard to vertical
Weight (net): 13 kg - 28.6 lb
Connectors: 2 x XLR in parallel, 2 x Powercon® 120 or 230V selectable by switch
Material: 15 mm and 18 mm Baltic birch plywood
Finish: grayish-brown RAL 8019®
Front: sandblast-coated steel grill, acoustically transparent ‘‘Airnet’’ black cloth
Rigging: integrated pole mount socket, optional ETR8-2 bracket

SMKSoundPro

01-13-2010, 07:31 PM

So, what special piece of music should I play through them for our "anniversary"?

"We're going have us a champagne jam" by Atlanta Rhthym Section
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1teiKswIkQg&feature=related

Scotty.

hjames

01-13-2010, 08:13 PM

Some people are too scared to buy a second amp and an active filter. It's pretty complicated stuff...

Pish and tush, sir ...
Not that complex - even with cheap amps improvement can be heard!

Or was that tongue firmly engaged in cheek?

4313B

01-13-2010, 08:44 PM

Pish and tush, sir ...
Not that complex - even with cheap amps improvement can be heard!

Or was that tongue firmly engaged in cheek?I'm irritated that I have to build full passive 4345 filters...

John

01-14-2010, 02:47 AM

A used pair of original JBL 4345 cannot be found less than $5K???

Well a few years ago before they were talked up on this forum I knew of at least 3 pairs that sold for well under $2000 in nice shape. But that was then and this is now. same thing with the L300.:blah:

Fangio

01-14-2010, 03:10 AM

hjames

01-14-2010, 03:46 AM

I'm irritated that I have to build full passive 4345 filters...

But what's the point in that - get a nice fat amp for the woofers
and just passive the other 3 drivers!
Its the way God intended it, it must be right!

Even with my little bitty '41s and the original crossovers
I can hear the difference with the woofs on a solo amp.
The few times I've had hardware issues and dropped back
to single amp mode its been a sad sound by comparison.

Can't even imagine smothering 18s that way ...

4313B

01-14-2010, 05:47 AM

Can't even imagine smothering 18s that way ...Evidently 90% of the 4345 owners can because they want 4-way passive networks with the damn switch...

Robh3606

01-14-2010, 08:41 AM

I don't understand the resistance to biamp them either. It makes so much sense to biamp them. Not like it's all that hard to do.

Rob:)

Chas

01-14-2010, 09:06 AM

I don't understand the resistance to biamp them either. It makes so much sense to biamp them. Not like it's all that hard to do.

Rob:)

Yeah, I thought Greg explained it pretty well. Maybe folks simply want to try it passive first for themselves. I could sort of understand it, if they have had limited multi-amping experience.

Mr. Widget

01-14-2010, 09:26 AM

I don't understand the resistance to biamp them either. It makes so much sense to biamp them. Not like it's all that hard to do. Yeah, but you have a JBL DX-1. ;)

The affordable and popular Ashly XR-1001 is a tolerable unit, but unless you are running a nightclub, or want that type of sound it is very difficult to find an active crossover that will live up to the hypocratic oath. Even though lesser active crossovers will give you the benefits of being able to select a big ballsy amp for the bottom connecting it directly to the woofer and using a smaller more nuanced amp for the rest of the system, most crossovers typically impart a signature all their own on top of your system.

As for difficulty of set up, biamping with only the one crossover point is usually manageable for most people even if their only test equipment is their own pair of ears... going into additional active crossover points becomes rather difficult to do by ear though.

Widget

4313B

01-14-2010, 09:37 AM

Yeah, I thought Greg explained it pretty well.I think it might be a language barrier issue.
it is very difficult to find an active crossover that will live up to the hypocratic oath.I just figured the guys running the 4355's could tell the guys running the 4345's what active crossovers to use. :p

Chas

01-14-2010, 11:27 AM

most crossovers typically impart a signature all their own on top of your system.
Widget

FWIW, on the high pass side of things, I have been experimenting with a first order passive (a pair of single capacitors in the balanced lines at the amp inputs) using one of my preferred boutique caps, Multicap RTX, versus my active fourth order Marchand (w/premium op-amps) lately.

Other than the weirdness of the widely differing roll off rates, the sonics weren't too bad from the active unit. Kudos to Marchand.

I agree though, I would never use my Ashly's for high pass use in a high quality application. I do use them on the bottom, though.:)

Punch

01-14-2010, 04:56 PM

On a side note, I would like to personally welcome "tjnif". I just sent him a PM because I would know those initials anywhere...it has been about 8 years now since my purchase from you.

I did not know you were a JBL guy...

He is a GREAT guy. Welcome.

Ducatista47

01-16-2010, 01:49 PM

FYI, here's the other end of the price range: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180455959038

Despite the all original blather, the 2245Hs have waffle surrounds.

And yes, welcome, tjnif.

boputnam

01-25-2010, 06:00 PM

Despite the all original blather, the 2245Hs have waffle surrounds.Hi, Clark...

Define "waffle"...? 2245H's are with foam surrounds, if that's what you meant.

Ian Mackenzie

01-25-2010, 06:29 PM

Dude,

Them woofers ain't as they were made.

boputnam

01-25-2010, 09:16 PM

Dude,

Them woofers ain't as they were made.Uh-oh...

Hi, Clark...

Define "waffle"...? 2245H's are with foam surrounds, if that's what you meant.I see now - I could not see that on my Droid. That auction is rife with misrepresentations! :scold:

Ian Mackenzie

06-29-2010, 07:51 AM

Evidently 90% of the 4345 owners can because they want 4-way passive networks with the damn switch...

I think its stems from the fact that the mids and highs can actually sound better in full passive mode with a really nice amp that can drive a difficult load.

Porschedman confirmed this using a Passlabs X150.5

Its also true people don't want a mess of wires that are not WAF friendly.

The likes of the 5234 / 5235 are note really up to the task but when owners hear something biamped of the the ilk of the Passlabs XVR1 then there is no going back.

Unfortunately JBL in their wisdom destroyed all the excellent DX1 active crossovers that were put aside for systems like 4345 / 4344.

There is an active crossover network in the works from First Watt (Nelson Pass) so keep an eye out for that.