About VLF in music

[Eaulive]

Just for fun I sampled Strauss's "Also Sprach Zarathustra" from a telarc CD I have here. I wanted to check the frequency of the very low rumble and now my question is:
What instrument can produce this steady note at that frequency, (16Hz) I rule out pipe organ since this is from a symphonic orchestra and no pipe organ is being heard there, at first I thought it could be the slow rumble of some kind of drum but the frequency is so steady that I doubt it.

Does some kind of string instrument go that low? I'm no musician, so I'm at lost.

[Allanvh5150]

There are a few instruments that have been made to go lower than 10hz but you will not find them in an orchestra. The low frequency is probably produced by a sub harmonic synthesizer. These generate octaves below what is being recorded to give the recording harmonic content that would otherwise not be there.

Allan.

[Eaulive]

There are a few instruments that have been made to go lower than 10hz but you will not find them in an orchestra. The low frequency is probably produced by a sub harmonic synthesizer. These generate octaves below what is being recorded to give the recording harmonic content that would otherwise not be there.

Allan.

That's not the kind of Telarc, they specifically say that this recording was unaltered in any ways :blink:

Maybe somekind of contrabass?

[grumpy]

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Also_sprach_Zarathustra_%28Richard_Strauss%29

[Eaulive]

Thanks Wikipedia!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Also_sprach_Zarathustra_%28Richard_Strauss%29 :applaud:


The piece starts with a sustained double low C , 32' pitch, on the double basses, contrabassoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrabassoon) and organ. So, that "double low C" is 16Hz?

There is an organ apparently, so it's probably it.

Thanks for the other link Grumpy!

[JBL 4645]

There’s a musical track that I first heard in The Abyss trailer 1989 that was used in an IMAX filmed called Baraka or was it Chronos? I haven’t seen the film and I can’t even make heads or tails out of the random videos on youtube which is which? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088919/ (1985)

Michael Stearns
http://www.michaelstearns.com/1977-1987.html
TECHNICAL BIO
http://www.michaelstearns.com/past_bio.html
The Guesthouse
http://www.michaelstearns.com/studio.html

The Abyss Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJyRF0Fzl9Y


Wonders of the Universe Evans & Sutherland
orion.avi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moKkKAGXQs4

Blaster Beam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_Beam

Star Trek The Motion Picture Klingon Battle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58wJRrvVgZI
“Blaster Beam”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_Beam
I’ve been looking up and down youtube like a yoyo for the past 2 hours.

As for “Also Sprach Zarathustra" not sure which version sounds the best that I, have on laserdisc DVD Bluray? I’d have to put them under Spectrumlab again for closer scrutiny

The waterfall is from the Dolby stereo trailer The Abyss where Michael Stearns soundtrack for Chronos is heard, this is towards the end of the trailer that has sweeping musical tone starting at the near low end then moves upwards in kinder frequency sweep way, that ends with lower note to bottom end.

[SEAWOLF97]

Quote:
The piece starts with a sustained double low C , 32' pitch, on the double basses, contrabassoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrabassoon) and organ.




So, that "double low C" is 16Hz?
There is an organ apparently, so it's probably it.


I'm not an expert, not even close....but I dont get how 2 instruments producing 32hz equals 16hz ???

[JBL 4645]

Quote:
The piece starts with a sustained double low C , 32' pitch, on the double basses, contrabassoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrabassoon) and organ.



I'm not an expert, not even close....but I dont get how 2 instruments producing 32hz equals 16hz ???

One way I can think of doing it is to slow the speed down of one track while mixing the rest of the normal instruments in there proper place and speed (pitch).

[scott fitlin]

Quote:
The piece starts with a sustained double low C , 32' pitch, on the double basses, contrabassoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrabassoon) and organ.



I'm not an expert, not even close....but I dont get how 2 instruments producing 32hz equals 16hz ???The fundamental note is 32hz, but there are harmonics generated that can be quite a bit lower in frequency.

[jcrobso]

Takes a very big pipe to do so, usually 32' in length, big enough to fit a basket ball into and a lot of air going through it.

[grumpy]

Questions about harmonics or subharmonics aside...

I think the basic answer is that there are multiple recordings available
and if 16Hz is present, that fundamental frequency is probably from an
organ or other keyboard, an octave below the contra-bassoon.

[jcrobso]

Quote:
The piece starts with a sustained double low C , 32' pitch, on the double basses, contrabassoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrabassoon) and organ.



I'm not an expert, not even close....but I dont get how 2 instruments producing 32hz equals 16hz ???

The right two notes can mix together and produce a third note that is lower than ether of the two notes. Not easy to do by the way and have that not e loud. This is some times called sub-harmonics>

[toddalin]

I think that there may be some fundimental confusion here on a 32-foot pipe (or pitch) versus a 32Hz tone.

On an organ, the length of the pipe obviously determines the frequency. If you play a pitch on an "8-foot" pipe, it is a designation that means that you are actually playing the note you are playing on the keyboard or pedalboard. When you play middle C, you hear middle C. The lowest note on the keyboard and pedalboard are C with a pitch of 64 Hz when the 8-foot pipe setting is used.

A 16-foot pipe designation is one octave lower than the note you actually play. The bottom C on the keyboard and pedalboard are reduced by one ocatve and now play 32Hz.

The 32-foot pipe designation plays a note two ocatves lower than the actual note played. You won't find a 32-foot setting on any organ keyboard that I am aware of, but you will find it on some of the pedalboards (but not a Hammond). The low C on the pedalboard with a 32-foot setting is 16 Hz.

[SEAWOLF97]

I think that there may be some fundimental confusion here on a 32-foot pipe (or pitch) versus a 32Hz tone.

On an organ, the length of the pipe obviously determines the frequency. If you play a pitch on an "8-foot" pipe, it is a designation that means that you are actually playing the note you are playing on the keyboard or pedalboard. When you play middle C, you hear middle C. The lowest note on the keyboard and pedalboard are C with a pitch of 64 Hz when the 8-foot pipe setting is used.

A 16-foot pipe designation is one octave lower than the note you actually play. The bottom C on the keyboard and pedalboard are reduced by one ocatve and now play 32Hz.

The 32-foot pipe designation plays a note two ocatves lower than the actual note played. You won't find a 32-foot setting on any organ keyboard that I am aware of, but you will find it on some of the pedalboards (but not a Hammond). The low C on the pedalboard with a 32-foot setting is 16 Hz.

thanx Todd, I can follow that explanation...:D

[toddalin]

thanx Todd, I can follow that explanation...:D

It does have a basis in the mechanics of the pipe organ.

Pipe organs have pipes that are open at the top, and pipes that are closed at the top. An organ pipe will produce a wavelength that is equivalent to the lenght of the pipe, if the pipe is open at the top. So the 8-foot pipe produces an 8-foot wavelength. Using 1,030 feet per second as the speed of sound:

1,030 ft/sec / 8 ft ~ 128 Hz

1,030 ft/sec / 16 ft ~ 64 Hz

1,030 ft/sec / 32 ft ~ 32 Hz

But if we cap the pipe, the air has to travel to the top and back down to exit. The length of the pipe is now only half the total wavelength, and the frequency is reduce by two because the air has to travel twice as far. We've essentially doubled the length of the pipe by adding a cap.

So by capping the pipes above, all of the frequencies are reduced by half and a 32-foot pipe (essentually a 64-foot pipe) produces a 16 Hz tone. I believe the "capped pipe" to be the basis of the nomenclature though I've not seen it anywhere.