PDA

View Full Version : Some beasty subs here, if you haven't seen them



mikebake
12-17-2009, 08:45 AM
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=172&MId=2

What?! No one here has one of these yet?
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=173&MId=2

and a very robust 12 incher
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=296&MId=2

4313B
12-17-2009, 08:48 AM
I'm sorry Mike but those enormous things only go down to 25 Hz. I don't listen to anything above 20 Hz so they are useless. I can't believe JBL is putting out that kind of junk. :banghead:

JBL 4645
12-17-2009, 08:53 AM
I'm sorry Mike but those enormous things only go down to 25 Hz. I don't listen to anything above 20 Hz so they are useless. I can't believe JBL is putting out that kind of junk. :banghead:
You think JBL should be setting goals lower down below 20Hz now since film soundtracks have nice range of exclusive content happen there now. This is no longer the 70’s 80’s 90’s.
:presents::tree:

mikebake
12-17-2009, 09:06 AM
I'm sorry Mike but those enormous things only go down to 25 Hz. I don't listen to anything above 20 Hz so they are useless. I can't believe JBL is putting out that kind of junk. :banghead:
Har! I bet they sound great. The beauty of the permanent install models is you can design for sound and (somewhat) size and weight be damned.

JBL 4645
12-17-2009, 09:27 AM
Well seem like you’re in touch with your feelings on this issue. Yeah I’m kinder disappointed their not setting their standards higher than this.

Confident seems like they’ve been producing subs within the 20Hz range for years now. I think its time, we saw something different from JBL something starting off around 10Hz would be a nice start.

And it needs to be within $500.00 dollars :D for once because all those over the top prices is really taking the Mickey.

jcrobso
12-17-2009, 09:50 AM
I think they should strive to get it down to 1 Hz per Hamilton so 10 Hz would only cost you a hundred bucks...

Go out to your car and open and close the door 1 times per second and you have 1hz, you won't hear anything but you can feel the breeze.;)
I think that I have heard the 12" sub.

JBL 4645
12-17-2009, 09:51 AM
I think they should strive to get it down to 1 Hz per Hamilton so 10 Hz would only cost you a hundred bucks...
No let’s be more reasonable shall we. :D Let’s make it $1 dollar for every 1Hz up to 120Hz.

$120.00 dollars for the sub and for the box lets be reasonable again shall we. Its Christmas :presents::tree:after all $100 dollars. Slap a bit black paint around it stick the logo on it and send it out for $230.00 for a dual 18”.:D


Go out to your car and open and close the door 1 times per second and you have 1hz, you won't hear anything but you can feel the breeze.;)
I think that I have heard the 12" sub.
Funny you should say that because my living room door does only 10Hz when opening it real fast, it shows up on spectrumlab when I use the microphone.:D

Titanium Dome
12-17-2009, 10:20 AM
What?! No one here has one of these yet?
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=173&MId=2



Well, I've got a pair of its siblings driver-wise: 2242HPL in S1S-EX Synthesis® boxes. In fact, I've heard the ASH6118 with the 2242H SVG at a club in Long Beach, now sadly, too soon out of business. Imagine an octet of those cleanly driving the bottom end of some great dance tracks and club mixes. Unfreakingbelievable! Notice how they scale at the bottom end as you add more units.

I love this:


For fixed installation applications requiring maximum low frequency output, such as dance-clubs/discotheques, live clubs, performing arts facilities, theatrical sound design, auditoriums, houses of worship, sports facilities and themed entertainment venues.

Maybe if I found a house of worship with these in the sound system I wouldn't be such a heathen--but it probably wouldn't help. :D Straight to Hell for me, I guess, with frickin' Bose Acoustimass® sound systems for eternal torture.

Eaulive
12-17-2009, 10:37 AM
Well, I've got a pair of its siblings driver-wise: 2242HPL in S1S-EX Synthesis® boxes. In fact, I've heard the ASH6118 with the 2242H SVG at a club in Long Beach, now sadly, too soon out of business. Imagine an octet of those cleanly driving the bottom end of some great dance tracks and club mixes. Unfreakingbelievable! Notice how they scale at the bottom end as you add more units.

I love this:



Maybe if I found a house of worship with these in the sound system I wouldn't be such a heathen--but it probably wouldn't help. :D Straight to Hell for me, I guess, with frickin' Bose Acoustimass® sound systems for eternal torture.

in 2007, before the recession almost killed my lil business (I'm in a critical state) I made a design for a club in Punta-Cana having four of those stacked together, among many other JBL goodies.
However the influx of wordwide tourists dropeed by 50% shortly afterwards so it went dead. :(

baldrick
12-17-2009, 12:48 PM
I really don't get this part:

Frequency
Response (±3 dB) : 1 cabinet: 30 Hz – 200 Hz,
2 cabinets: 28 Hz – 200 Hz,
4 cabinets: 26 Hz – 200 Hz

Why does the +-3db changes when you have several cabinets?

badman
12-17-2009, 01:05 PM
Funny you should say that because my living room door does only 10Hz when opening it real fast, it shows up on spectrumlab when I use the microphone.:D

Sounds like someone needs to think about frequency and period some more. Opening it really fast pushes the frequency UP. Check it when you open it slowly.

BUT, there are some measurement (and pulse generation) problems with this method- 1Hz is basically a pure pressure mode, largely cancelled by the equalization of the wave around the door. And 1Hz is outside the passband for most measurement setups.

Eaulive
12-17-2009, 01:18 PM
I really don't get this part:

Frequency
Response (±3 dB) : 1 cabinet: 30 Hz – 200 Hz,
2 cabinets: 28 Hz – 200 Hz,
4 cabinets: 26 Hz – 200 Hz

Why does the +-3db changes when you have several cabinets?

If you group the cabinets together the mouth area increases, effectively lowering the LF cutoff. It's common practice to stack LF horns for this purpose, not only this sub, but any horn loaded sub.

baldrick
12-17-2009, 01:26 PM
I really didn't know that, is this only with horn design or the same with normal boxes if you stack them?

Eaulive
12-17-2009, 01:36 PM
I really didn't know that, is this only with horn design or the same with normal boxes if you stack them?
As far as I know it's only with horns because it's the mouth area that really determines the LF cutoff.
With normal bass reflex boxes you have the same 3dB increase in SPL but you don't get more LF extension.

The same principle is used with multicells HF horns, where the total mouth area of each cell combines to extend low frequency response .

Ruediger
12-17-2009, 01:51 PM
Hi Baldrick,

a simple way to calculate the sound radiated by a horn's mouth is to treat it like a piston. A radiating surface (or a piston) does have a "radiation resistance" associated with it, and that basically tells how well the surface can radiate sound.

As a simple example consider a piston in a large baffle. It's radiation resistance begins to drop when the piston's circumference divided by the wavelength of sound is about 2, at a rate which is proportional to frequency squared.

So there is something like a corner frequency for a radiating surface or piston.

If You put several radiating surfaces or pistons close together they will act like a single bigger radiating surface or piston, and that will have a larger circumference. So it will require a larger wavelength of sound (lower frequency) for the above expression to become two (which is where the "corner frequency" is).

This is called mutual coupling.

Ruediger

4343
12-17-2009, 02:23 PM
... I don't listen to anything above 20 Hz so they are useless... :banghead:

Looks like you could get there with these, maybe 8 or 16 boxes would do it!

mikebake
12-17-2009, 06:25 PM
Well, I've got a pair of its siblings driver-wise: 2242HPL in S1S-EX Synthesis® boxes. In fact, I've heard the ASH6118 with the 2242H SVG at a club in Long Beach, now sadly, too soon out of business. Imagine an octet of those cleanly driving the bottom end of some great dance tracks and club mixes. Unfreakingbelievable! Notice how they scale at the bottom end as you add more units.

I love this:



Maybe if I found a house of worship with these in the sound system I wouldn't be such a heathen--but it probably wouldn't help. :D Straight to Hell for me, I guess, with frickin' Bose Acoustimass® sound systems for eternal torture.
That's what led me back to that area on JBL; I've been talking to my church for a year or so on upgrading their sound. Yes, they have a Bose system (I wasn't around when they put it in) and it includes the big bass tube up in the peak of the room, but they haven't used IT for years now. They use the Panarrays and a JBL LF using 2226's.
They contacted an audio consultant and he had 4 companies on his preferred list, including JBL. He did an EASE profile on the room and recommended an EV FRX series system with the 90x40 cabs. I've just re-entered the process and we're going to listen to the cabs and I hope to see what the consultant has to say.
The church has a nice opportunity to put some such beasty subs on the floor up front under the concrete stage, concealed behind a facia.
It kinda looks like an ideal place for some politically incorrect subs. The room is actually not that bad, esp. for bass. I am looking forward to the results.

Titanium Dome
12-17-2009, 10:47 PM
If your church is having these guys over to play in the new JBL system, give me a ring. I'll be in NW Ohio in early February.

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2009/06/paul-jones-onward-christian-soldiers-video.html

scott fitlin
12-17-2009, 11:26 PM
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=172&MId=2

What?! No one here has one of these yet?
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=173&MId=2

and a very robust 12 incher
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=296&MId=2There was a club in Manhattan that had several ASH6118 cabinets. They put out, they are big, and EXPENSIVE.

mikebake
12-18-2009, 06:12 AM
There was a club in Manhattan that had several ASH6118 cabinets. They put out, they are big, and EXPENSIVE.
Maybe we should just buy the Eldorado rig when you close. That would rock the congregation.

scott fitlin
12-18-2009, 10:01 AM
Maybe we should just buy the Eldorado rig when you close. That would rock the congregation.Providing The Eldorado DOES close. There have been recent things about Coney Island that have come up, and only NO papers have been signed as of yet.....


Even still, I will be functional this summer, and when I leave, so does my system. BUT, MY system stays with ME! My J Horns probably would fit into your congregation, though. They take up alot of wall space, but very little floor space, as they are set up vertically, firing down, onto a scoop type extension. They are, however, BIGGER than JBL,s ASH6118.

mikebake
12-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Even still, I will be functional this summer, and when I leave, so does my system. BUT, MY system stays with ME!
I would think so!! However, yer gonna need a big place for it. That ain't no weekend portable DJ rig. I had a lot of big stuff, too, but after lugging it around for years, it was time for neo magnets and powered speakers. I kept the 4560's, though. Keep vowing I'll never part with them. Too fun.

scott fitlin
12-19-2009, 08:16 AM
I will hold onto my stuff, as I am planning to build a club after I am out of CI.

Akira
12-20-2009, 10:52 AM
Can some one explain the design principal behind the "V" loaded ASB6128V?
I've never understood the operating principal behind any speaker that has it's rear baffel exposed "unloaded" while firing into a separate chamber.

JBL 4645
12-20-2009, 11:05 AM
Can some one explain the design principal behind the "V" loaded ASB6128V?
I've never understood the operating principal behind any speaker that has it's rear baffel exposed "unloaded" while firing into a separate chamber.

Yeah I’m a little more curious about that myself.
:happyh::tree:

Robh3606
12-20-2009, 11:22 AM
Take a scoop and put the drivers in magnets out. Take a reflex box do the same. No real difference. That keeps the drivers cooler that way. The heat doesn't build up in the cabinets.

Rob:)

mikebake
12-20-2009, 01:14 PM
I guess I think of it this way; it doesn't really matter which side of the cone surface is on the outside, and obviously not whether the motor drives it from within or without. As Rob said, you could turn it around and expect pretty much the same result.

mikebake
12-20-2009, 01:19 PM
While we're at it, this looks fun, too.
http://www2.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductPictures/d087cea4-5973-45f6-9ee6-c50ac851e228.jpghttp://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=300&MId=2

JBL 4645
12-20-2009, 02:14 PM
While we're at it, this looks fun, too.
http://www2.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductPictures/d087cea4-5973-45f6-9ee6-c50ac851e228.jpghttp://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=300&MId=2

Oddly enough I was looking at that model last night and noted the frequency response was touch lower.
:happyh::tree:

Titanium Dome
12-20-2009, 02:16 PM
While we're at it, this looks fun, too.
http://www2.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductPictures/d087cea4-5973-45f6-9ee6-c50ac851e228.jpghttp://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=300&MId=2

Lightweight at 158.5 pounds, eh? Of course, it's all relative, but that's a hernia in a box for the unwary installer. That ground stacking will get you every time. :biting:

JBL 4645
12-20-2009, 02:21 PM
Lightweight at 158.5 pounds, eh? Of course, it's all relative, but that's a hernia in a box for the unwary installer. That ground stacking will get you every time. :biting:

Hey if you want extra weight from the box stick a few, breezeblocks inside it.:D
:happyh::tree:

mikebake
12-20-2009, 08:21 PM
Lightweight at 158.5 pounds, eh? Of course, it's all relative, but that's a hernia in a box for the unwary installer. That ground stacking will get you every time. :biting:
I used a 330 lb. quad 15 in a portable rig every weekend for three years, so yeah, 158 is a breeze!

Titanium Dome
12-20-2009, 09:17 PM
I used a 330 lb. quad 15 in a portable rig every weekend for three years, so yeah, 158 is a breeze!

Yeah, so how old were you then and when's the last time you did it? :p

scott fitlin
12-20-2009, 09:25 PM
I used a 330 lb. quad 15 in a portable rig every weekend for three years, so yeah, 158 is a breeze!Or, 158.5lbs, as compared to the dual ported boxes Widget built for me, which are approximately 400lb each. And I have four of those, and NO I don't want to move 'em around as portables.

158.5lb is comparably lightweight.

:D

mikebake
12-21-2009, 07:51 AM
Yeah, so how old were you then and when's the last time you did it? :p

49, last year.

Titanium Dome
12-21-2009, 08:32 AM
49, last year.

Wow, then you are the man.

When I moved the 150 lb. in-the-box S1S-EX subs down to the lower level, I used a hand truck, straps, and an assistant. Even then, one of them put up a really good fight and nearly killed us.

Eaulive
12-21-2009, 10:00 AM
Wow, then you are the man.

When I moved the 150 lb. in-the-box S1S-EX subs down to the lower level, I used a hand truck, straps, and an assistant. Even then, one of them put up a really good fight and nearly killed us.

I used to move 800 pounds "Valley" pool tables (not the home stuff, the tavern proof ones) with only one helper.
Down the pickup truck, and down stairs (up stairs we needed to be 3 guys)

I was carrying all this by myself also: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eaulive/2697015682/in/set-72157605606658974/
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/2697015682_2cdaefc59b.jpg

I was 160lbs when wet back then, I learned to use my head more than my back :D

JBL 4645
12-21-2009, 10:33 AM
I used to move 800 pounds "Valley" pool tables (not the home stuff, the tavern proof ones) with only one helper.
Down the pickup truck, and down stairs (up stairs we needed to be 3 guys)

I was carrying all this by myself also:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/2697015682_2cdaefc59b.jpg

I was 160lbs when wet back then, I learned to use my head more than my back :D

Looks like a backdrop of civil war re-enactment. Only using subs and CD called 1812 overture playing cannon fire! :D

:tree:

Eaulive
12-21-2009, 01:14 PM
Looks like a backdrop of civil war re-enactment. Only using subs and CD called 1812 overture playing cannon fire! :D

:tree:

What you don't see is that behind the photographer is a lake, about 2mi in diameter, bordered by small houses and cabins (a friend had a cabin there and we used to go for weekend parties). The night when the system was hooked, a guy came with a recording of a moose in heat...

I guess you can figure the rest out, sound travels very far over calm waters :D:D:D:applaud:

That was when I was still living in Quebec BTW, no mooses in the D.R ;)

Akira
12-21-2009, 10:27 PM
Take a scoop and put the drivers in magnets out. Take a reflex box do the same. No real difference. That keeps the drivers cooler that way. The heat doesn't build up in the cabinets.
Rob:)
I don't think the scoop analogy applies to this design. The drivers in a scoop are primarily bass reflex and rely on a sympathetic air space. The "V" design has no air space to load the driver to achieve it's resonant frequency and is clearly firing into some kind of dual loaded chamber to create compression.

herki the cat
12-22-2009, 05:54 AM
Go out to your car and open and close the door 1 times per second and you have 1hz, you won't hear anything but you can feel the breeze.;) .

I can relate to this one __ One Hz / second with the car door! I got a good laugh out of that one.:applaud:
--------------------------------------------
cheers herki the cat

Eaulive
12-22-2009, 06:12 AM
I don't think the scoop analogy applies to this design. The drivers in a scoop are primarily bass reflex and rely on a sympathetic air space. The "V" design has no air space to load the driver to achieve it's resonant frequency and is clearly firing into some kind of dual loaded chamber to create compression.

The scoop like the 4520/4530 are not bass reflex, they are horns. Whether the driver has it's magnet in or out is irrelevant really. Anyways this whole concept of "front loaded" or "rear loaded" horn is merely based on which side of the driver is loaded and is irrelevant at the end of the story.

Th idea behind the JBL 6128 is to put the magnets outside for maximum cooling, maybe also because the internal space was too restricted. Either way it makes no difference accoustically.

You can take any kind of speaker in any kind of box and install it backwards, as long as you reverse the polarity and if critical, compensate for the change in inner volume, it'll work the same.

Robh3606
12-22-2009, 08:26 AM
The "V" design has no air space to load the driver to achieve it's resonant frequency and is clearly firing into some kind of dual loaded chamber to create compression.


There is no space or volume of air inside the box?? A dual loaded chamber is different from a bandpass reflex sub box?? The box clearly has reflex ports.

Rob:)

Akira
12-26-2009, 01:53 PM
I just don't understand the principal behind this design.
A link or basic explanation down to my level would be appreciated.

JBL 4645
12-26-2009, 02:16 PM
What you don't see is that behind the photographer is a lake, about 2mi in diameter, bordered by small houses and cabins (a friend had a cabin there and we used to go for weekend parties). The night when the system was hooked, a guy came with a recording of a moose in heat...

I guess you can figure the rest out, sound travels very far over calm waters :D:D:D:applaud:

That was when I was still living in Quebec BTW, no mooses in the D.R ;)
:rotfl:
I guess its got the horn then.:D That's a big Moose!

http://www.iswhy.com/images/love-moose-4-read1.JPG

:xmas::tree:

Eaulive
12-26-2009, 05:00 PM
:rotfl:
I guess its got the horn then.:D That's a big Moose!

http://www.iswhy.com/images/love-moose-4-read1.JPG

:xmas::tree:

Cool picture :applaud:

No, we didn't see any moose but a lot of lights turned on around the lake and I guess some people were wondering about what ungodly beast could produce those sounds :D:D:D

JBL 4645
12-26-2009, 06:29 PM
Cool picture :applaud:

No, we didn't see any moose but a lot of lights turned on around the lake and I guess some people were wondering about what ungodly beast could produce those sounds :D:D:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GygdvzwrsXc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GygdvzwrsXc)

Foxes do the same around here in the evening. They make this hideous sound that goes on for hours…

Now if I could only get decent enough recording of that sound, and stick powerful horn out the window at night.:D

:xmas::tree: