AV Component Front-ends [Archive] - Lansing Heritage Forums

Mr. Widget

12-12-2009, 03:50 PM

Thoughts comments, brand loyalties?I assume you want a good value and are not looking to buy the best analog section available which requires the willingness and ability to spend a small fortune on a processor.

The Integra DTC 9.8 was a very high performance/price unit... it has since been superseded twice by the manufacturer... the Integra DHC 9.9 had some video upgrades and the new Integra DHC 80.1 (where do you go with your naming scheme after 9.9?) has additional bells and whistles over both it's predecessors. Both of the newer models have come out with higher prices... I guess since the 9.8 was hard to keep in stock, they determined that the price was too low. If you could find a lightly used 9.8 I would highly recommend it.

If not, the upper middle product range of Denon and Onkyo/Integra receivers with pre-outs are among the better values in the budget HT arena.

Widget

10 Watt Street

12-12-2009, 03:54 PM

I have preferred the sound of the DN-A7100 from Denon Pro to the Onkyo Integras. It is also pretty affordable, but only offers balanced outputs.

http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4214

Mr. Widget

12-12-2009, 04:07 PM

I have preferred the sound of the DN-A7100 from Denon Pro to the Onkyo Integras.I haven't heard it, so I can't say, but I do agree that better Denons do sound pretty good. That said, this model has HDMI 1.1 so it won't pass 1080p video or process the newer high def audio formats present on many blu ray discs.

Widget

timc

12-12-2009, 04:31 PM

I have had some experience with the Integra DRC 7.1. (Working at retailer)

It is a great unit WHEN it is working. And the support from Onkyo/integra have been rubish.

The Anthem D2v on the other hand, is smooth sailing all the way. And it has a very nice room correction system.

I have never really liked any Denon gear. I thin they sound harsh with a bit boomy bottom end.

What about the Rotel RSP-15xx ?

-Tim

Mr. Widget

12-12-2009, 04:57 PM

The Anthem is excellent, but it costs $7500. I doubt Heather was planning on that sort of expenditure. The older Denon and Integra units that were mentioned are both closer to $1000.

Widget

rdgrimes

12-12-2009, 05:32 PM

In terms of the core audio processing and function, audio quality as it were, there's very little difference between the mid-level and high-end units from the various brands. Where most of the high-end money goes is into features, video processing, bells and whistles, etc.

With that in mind, you can achieve very comparable audio quality with a mid-level AVR that has pre-outs, and a separate amp. That's the approach I take, using a Yamaha RX-V665 as a pre-pro and separate amp. I got the 665 for a fraction of the cost of one of the dedicated pre-pro units and enjoy equal quality audio. (Yamaha uses the same DAC in all units from the mid-level up) Got the 665 for $350 shipped. That leaves plenty of headroom for buying amps.

Were I you, I'd be looking first at AVR units with pre-outs, then at features and processing like YPAO or Audessay.

Mr. Widget

12-12-2009, 05:43 PM

In terms of the core audio processing and function, audio quality as it were, there's very little difference between the mid-level and high-end units from the various brands. Where most of the high-end money goes is into features, video processing, bells and whistles, etc. Yes and no... the really high end stuff like the Anthem, Classe, Mark Levinson etc. have better analog sections and better A to D sections than the "high end" Denon, Yamaha, etc. pieces whose rear panels are so crowded with superfluous zones and redundant connectivity... looking at their "high end" stuff makes me laugh at the number of features that almost no one will ever use.

I agree that a ~$1K AVR is the best bang for the buck especially if you use the internal amps for the surrounds. That said, the Integra DTC 9.8 with Audyssey is an outstanding value if you can find one... it isn't really crowded with unnecessary features, does support balanced outputs if you want and is generally a bit higher quality than the less expensive AVRs with similar specs.

Widget

hjames

12-12-2009, 05:53 PM

Were I you, I'd be looking first at AVR units with pre-outs, then at features and processing like YPAO or Audessay.

Okay - when I first upgraded from my old JVC 110w/5.1 receiver, I first got an HK AVR 335 as a front end from Harman Direct. Think it was around $340 or so - ran Preamp OUT for front L and R into an active crossover and then all the biamp gear for the 4341s. used the internal amps for center, surrounds and rears. After a couple years of that I found a deal on an HK AVR7300 - the then top of the line unit with (I think) 7x110w chan, faroudja circuits for the video and all kinds of great processing (Dolby Digital EX, Pro Logic II, all DTS modes (including 6.1 DTS-ES Discrete, DTS-ES Matrix, and DTS Neo:6) . Again, same deal - I can just run Front Preamp out (L - R) feed my active crossover and the biamp stuff, and use the (more powerful) internal amps for center, surrounds and rears.

I actually have a nice center speaker (JBL LC2) on the internal Front-Center amp, and run the side and rear internal amps to L20T3s and L20T speakers, respectively. They work great as surrounds. Sub out feeds a bridged Citation amp and a JBL B-380. Seems like plenty!

I guess part of my desire was - if I go to external amps, the rack with my pre-processor would run much cooler and I could locate the amps elsewhere. Going to another AVR doesn't really change that part of the equation.

BMWCCA

12-12-2009, 07:17 PM

Of course I don't get H/T but I do understand running lots of amp off a decent front-end. I even bemoaned the lack of affordable A/V pre-amps here maybe two years ago and I believe at that time someone pointed me to the Outlaw line. If this baby (just reduced to $699 MSRP) doesn't give you what you need, maybe their other models will:
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/990.html

http://www.outlawaudio.com/images/990-back-lg.jpg

A review back when it cost $1200 comparing it to a $3,300 Anthem controller is here: http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/outlaw_990.htm and they pay specific attention to its 2-channel performance.

hjames

12-12-2009, 08:42 PM

That really looks interesting, but I couldn't in good faith buy any new unit that doesn't include at least 2 HDMI inputs -> throughputs.
The OPPO 981HD and the Apple TV both have HDMI outs - my TV only has a single HDMI so I'm using the composite out of the APPLE TV, not its preferred HDMI connection.
Neither of the HK receivers I've had had HDMI either, but they were older models.

But thanks for the heads up - their gear does look interesting!

Update - after reading on of the reviews on the Outlaw site, it seems that there are very cheap HDMI->DVI adapters when using HDMI for just video (as I do)

Like this on for just over a buck-fifty at Amazon!
http://www.amazon.com/Eforcity-HDMI-F-DVI-M-Adaptor-Contacts/dp/B000E8X5Z0/

a pair of those would solve any issues I can see with the Outlaw unit!

Of course I don't get H/T but I do understand running lots of amp off a decent front-end. I even bemoaned the lack of affordable A/V pre-amps here maybe two years ago and I believe at that time someone pointed me to the Outlaw line. If this baby (just reduced to $699 MSRP) doesn't give you what you need, maybe their other models will:
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/990.html

http://www.outlawaudio.com/images/990-back-lg.jpg

A review back when it cost $1200 comparing it to a $3,300 Anthem controller is here: http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/outlaw_990.htm and they pay specific attention to its 2-channel performance.

rdgrimes

12-12-2009, 09:53 PM

I guess part of my desire was - if I go to external amps, the rack with my pre-processor would run much cooler and I could locate the amps elsewhere. Going to another AVR doesn't really change that part of the equation.
An AVR with no amp output will run as cool as anything else for the most part. Onkyo/Integra may be an exception. Point being that you shouldn't assume that a pre-pro will run "cool" just because it has no amps.

BMWCCA

12-12-2009, 10:28 PM

Update - after reading on of the reviews on the Outlaw site, it seems that there are very cheap HDMI->DVI adapters when using HDMI for just video (as I do) ...
a pair of those would solve any issues I can see with the Outlaw unit!Or you could wait for their new unit co-developed with Sherwood that has four HDMI inputs...and costs nearly twice as much!

Allanvh5150

12-12-2009, 11:12 PM

Most of the Yamaha mid range stuff has 4 HD in and 1 out. The RX-V665 is around $550US I believe. It will decode to 7.2 and they go pretty well. If it is just the front end that you want this amp will do just fine. I have tried most setups over the last few years and I am more than happy with the Yamaha brand. There are others out there with more features but as Widget said, features are pointless unless you use them.

Allan.

BMWCCA

12-12-2009, 11:35 PM

Most of the Yamaha mid range stuff has 4 HD in and 1 out. The RX-V665 is around $550US I believe. It will decode to 7.2 and they go pretty well. If it is just the front end that you want this amp will do just fine.
It's only $319 here: http://www.advancedlamps.com/Yamaha-RX-V665BL-Home-Theater-Receiver-630-Watts-7.1-Channel

It does have 7.1 + 2xSub pre-outs.

Allanvh5150

12-12-2009, 11:48 PM

Of course I was going by the RRP on Yamahaa site. Considering the amount of titles available in 7.1 or 7.2, sort of makes that point pointless anyway.

JBL 4645

12-13-2009, 04:28 AM

These AVR are cheap and I only use it as processor for selection modes that DVD laserdisc Bluray is attached to and other things like few Dolby dts CS-5.1 why they call it CS-5.1 because its fake simulation to discrete sigh.

Separate matching amps for matching fronts surrounds subs what ever at least you can see the punishment of the levels on the barograph display, that won’t show up on a typical expensive AVR coasting $£10 grand now!

If I placed the LCR fronts closer to the wall I notice bass mid is warmer and louder in SPL db and therefore less power needed. If I move them forwards because of the room too close to the walls I get narrow stereo plus the TV and other things are in the way, so the sound bounces off and causes little issues.

So they have to be on the near to the edge. That’s where I loss a bit of low end in SPL db not much in frequency just that the frequency level in SPL db drops by so many db, therefore it needs just a bit more power only tiny amount, this shows on the Alesis RA300 in the LF.

Same thing for the JBL sub even though I’m supplying it with bridge mode same amp, but if I have nulls that show up on the frequency sweep charts, well there it is, I need to shift sofa around or sub or locate other sub to mate on with the other to help fill in that null frequency gap!

There are lots and lots of variables to look at, its not as simple for one to rush out buy the hottest AVR and speakers and sub and just throw it in the room, hoping its going to sound better than the local professional THX cinema, LOL.

Anyway I got my eye on a cheap ONKYO TX-SR707 DolbyTrue dtsHD THX RCA 7.1 phone outputs £599.00 as soon as I scrape up the money, won’t be till early next year.
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?class=Receiver&m=TX-SR707

I’ll keep the existing Kenwood KRF-9050D THX Select where I can connect it up with the new AVR for extra, extra inputs etc, and additional audio processing which seems to elude most owners.

One thing a good AVR should last 10 years or more before changing in today’s (Dolby dts common audio decoding) my Bluray is playing fine no worries unless its rubbish disc from one that was produced for laserdisc and DVD that’s just been rehashed over and over, catch my, drift?

Put the new decoder is kinder required also my AVR doesn’t support 7.1 or 8 channel decoding only 6 channel, yes I know wow big deal only two channels more.

Too bad Sony can’t get there act together with SDDS8 on Bluray, but 8 channel can support it if you think.

hjames

12-13-2009, 06:46 AM

I sold off a mid-range Yamaha AVR recently - had some kind of windows based network radio functionality and a few other features I'd never use.

For the few times we've done distant listening via the internet, the Mac iTunes/Airtunes feature fed through the Apple TV and an optical cable (or RCA) into a receiver seems to work quite well That feature is not AVR dependent - I can even do it on my old stereo carver receiver with simple RCA AUX inputs.

I don't need the multizone feature that comes with most receivers either -
tho both the HK units I've had had it.
I have 3 standalone systems in the house and simple solutions like that work fine.

timc

12-14-2009, 11:50 AM

Have you searched for any used Lexicon units? I believe it should be possible to get one for around $1000-$1200

-Tim

grumpy

12-14-2009, 01:59 PM

I just picked up a B-stock Onkyo HT-RC180 from Fry's for $600... they seem
to have taken on quite a few of these to sell. They might have them vi outpost.com as well.

Very similar to TX-SR807, uses same manual:
(110w vs 135w, 5 vs 6 HDMI in, no RS-232 or IR trigger in/outs on HT unit).

Does require air space... unhampered ventilation.

For it's intended use, it's fine (not exactly a TiDome level setup when playing
back "Master & Commander", but it'll do for now) ;)

JBL 4645

12-15-2009, 06:08 AM

I might be changing my mind on the Onkyo. Yamaha has model minis THX! It has pre-outputs all the different Dolby/dts thingy’s a mic to auto EQ calibrate the room Yamaha RXV-765 £349.95.

The guy can’t get the model in till around Monday, oh, well there’s no rush for it.

hjames

12-15-2009, 06:20 AM

Again, I have tried a couple of Receivers, and I'm current using the Harman Kardon top of the line receiver from 2005 (HK AVR 7300),
7x110w/ch, but I am more interested in going with a preamp/Processor and standalone amps.

I don't think AV receivers give me the best possibilities in regard to sound, especially when I am doing double duty as a stereo source for vinyl, CDs and the like when used in music only mode.

Well, if I was to go with a receiver, I'd probably get one of the newer Hk receivers
but without the high power amps built in ... maybe 70w/ch instead of the 110w/ch
the AVR7300 has - and hopefully with HDMI 1.3, etc. Most pf the other feature it has are fine.
If I do a small upgrade within a tight budget - I don't really need big amps for the rear/surrounds -
the L20T/L20T3s do fine at that level in that room.

JBL 4645

12-15-2009, 07:14 AM

LOL I think that’s why there so cheap. I mean face it any normal set-up will consist of large hefty heavy amps when stacked altogether you’d have hard time lugging that lot around.:D
:happyh::tree:

grumpy

12-15-2009, 08:08 AM

"...but I am more interested in going with a preamp/Processor and standalone amps."

That's where I was headed... as I have plenty of decent sounding amps.
... then an older Kenwood Sovereign receiver popped, and I had to slip
something in quickly.

Viable (for my wishes) pre/pro options seemed to converge in the $2K neighborhood,
regardless of manufacturer or age (within reason). Obviously, one can spend
a great deal more.

Old Lexicon units weren't going to manage video without an external box,
and keeping up with the various digital formats is a whack-a-mole game.

For now, my HT and stereo systems will remain separate.

4313B

12-15-2009, 08:28 AM

Does Adcom have anything worth looking at? Or is that considered grunge these days?

grumpy

12-15-2009, 09:02 AM

GTP870HD ?

Almost 3 years old and still selling for ~$2K. <shrug>

Mr. Widget

12-15-2009, 09:16 AM

I don't think AV receivers give me the best possibilities in regard to sound, especially when I am doing double duty as a stereo source for vinyl, CDs and the like when used in music only mode.I agree with you 100%

This has been discussed numerous time on several threads so I won't wind bag about how terrible virtually all surround processors and AVRs sound in stereo mode and especially with analog inputs.

Widget

grumpy

12-15-2009, 09:46 AM

There are 'worthy' audio-only pre-amps with HT pass-thru functions that can
help somewhat, in that not everyone has space for two independent rooms
and the attendant equipment.

Mr. Widget

12-15-2009, 10:22 AM

There are 'worthy' audio-only pre-amps with HT pass-thru functions that can help somewhat...That is always my recommendation if audio quality is paramount and the budget won't accommodate a mega buck front end... but it does complicate the operation of the system. Some people have a tough time switching back and forth.

BTW: HT pass through is somewhat of a convenience, but it isn't necessary. The L and R outs of the processor/AVR can simply be an aux input on the two channel preamp.

Widget

svollmer

12-15-2009, 04:31 PM

Heather,

I have a stack of Adcom GFA-565 monoblock amps that all just recently had the caps replaced. I could bring a couple over if you'd like to try them in your system to see if you hear benefits over your receiver. I also have a preamp you can borrow for the test run. Oh, and I have a GFA-555II stereo amp you can try as well.

You can pick up the GFA-555 (200 wpc), GFA-545 (100 wpc) and GFA-535 (60 wpc) stereo amps dirt cheap and they are good performers with no history of capacitor problems (that I'm aware of) like the GFA-565 mono and GFA-585 stereo amps. A used GFA-545 100 watt amp was my first Adcom piece in 1991. It had nice tight bass and I liked it so much that I never put my big BGW-750C back in the system.

PM me if you're interested and we can hook up over/after Christmas holidays.

I have no experience with them, but I've been reading pretty good things about the Emotiva stuff. Outlaw, as stated earlier, is also a well-respected bang for the buck brand if you're looking for separates. I used to be very partial to Adcom, but they aren't the same company; at least right now. I think if I was in that market again, I'd be looking strongly at Rotel.

Steve

grumpy

12-15-2009, 04:45 PM

I guess many current processors/AVRs and multi-channel sources
have dedicated 'stereo' LR outputs (in addition to the HT-type LCRetc multi-
channel outputs), making a unity-gain pass-through less of a necessity,
especially if they are not variable level outputs.

But are the pre-pros/AVR's set up that way? It would bug the crap out of
me to need to mark (and remember to set) the two-channel-pre gain knob for a
'calibrated' HT position, mentally deal with an unnecessary gain/loss stage,
and repeatedly need to explain operating procedure.

lgvenable

12-15-2009, 05:21 PM

I'm running an 80.1 with a mix of BGW and AB System amps.

I got the 80.1 for a price a little more than the new Outlaw 997 (as yet unreleased). I was waiting for the 997, for 2 years, and got tired of waiting. if interested in an 80.1, PM me and I'll give you contact info for the lowest price in America.

The 80.1 has excellent performance, and I'm running 13 amps mixed between AB Systems and BGW's. As a matter of performance, the AB Systems are killer at 300wpc, and can be picked up on ebay for as low as 129.00 each.

best choice I ever made for a pre-amp, and it has 7 HDMI inputs and two HDMI monitor outputs.;)

hjames

12-15-2009, 06:22 PM

Very kind offer, Steve, thanks!
I'm recovering from a week of the flu - was home from work all last week - ugh! Anyway, I just got an old-style GFA-555 on Monday - 2x200w - but it'll be the weekend before I get a chance to swap it in place of the JBL/UREI 6260 I run the 2235 woofers on ...
I'd like to try a second GFA-555, and run each side on its own amp, like Rolf recommended a while back.

I've also got a 2535 multi-channel amp due any day now - one channel may have a problem, but the price was right to take a gamble ... (4x60w)

Those GFA-565 Monoblocks are supposed to be the very devil - 1x300w - not sure if I need quite that much - but it could be interesting to test!!

Heather,

I have a stack of Adcom GFA-565 monoblock amps that all just recently had the caps replaced. I could bring a couple over if you'd like to try them in your system to see if you hear benefits over your receiver. I also have a preamp you can borrow for the test run. Oh, and I have a GFA-555II stereo amp you can try as well.

You can pick up the GFA-555 (200 wpc), GFA-545 (100 wpc) and GFA-535 (60 wpc) stereo amps dirt cheap and they are good performers with no history of capacitor problems (that I'm aware of) like the GFA-565 mono and GFA-585 stereo amps. A used GFA-545 100 watt amp was my first Adcom piece in 1991. It had nice tight bass and I liked it so much that I never put my big BGW-750C back in the system.

PM me if you're interested and we can hook up over/after Christmas holidays.

I have no experience with them, but I've been reading pretty good things about the Emotiva stuff. Outlaw, as stated earlier, is also a well-respected bang for the buck brand if you're looking for separates. I used to be very partial to Adcom, but they aren't the same company; at least right now. I think if I was in that market again, I'd be looking strongly at Rotel.

Steve

St. Anger

12-15-2009, 07:53 PM

If you are not in a hurry, and it doesn't sound as though you are, you might want to watch the Onkyo site (shoponkyo.com) for their B-stock pre-amps. I bought the 885 pre-amp in the spring for ~$650. This was the "old" model. The newer 886, has the Audyssey dynamic processor which is supposed to awesome, that's about the only difference between the 885 & 886. I did see the 886 unit on sale over the summer for $950, B-stock, new A-stock runs ~$1,450. I have no issues with my 885, when I received it, the only way I could tell it was B-stock were by the markings on the box.

Also, the Onkyo and Integra's are clones, with a couple of minor differences.

I also bought a used B&K amp off audiogon, 7 channels x 200wpc for $1,160. I have seen the 5 channel version for ~$900.

Just a thought.....

baldrick

12-16-2009, 12:02 AM

This is what you want: Emotiva UMC-1 (http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm)

opimax

12-16-2009, 08:03 AM

Heather,

Don't forget I have a gfa555 another stuff if you want to try some thngs too. Also if Steve is coming over I would be interested too

Mark

BMWCCA

12-16-2009, 09:14 AM

[quote=opimax;272862]Also if Steve is coming over I would be interested too /quote]Uh-oh—Mid-Atlantic Lansing Meet IV?

'Tis the season...

opimax

12-16-2009, 09:53 AM

I am easy, like seeing other stuff and hearng different combos. In fact I am driving to KC on the 29th I would love to hear or see anybody's setup while traveling through...:) :)

Mark

Titanium Dome

12-16-2009, 11:35 AM

I am easy, like seeing other stuff and hearng different combos. In fact I am driving to KC on the 29th I would love to hear or see anybody's setup while traveling through...:) :)

Mark

If that's Kunming, China, then you can stop here at the Dome-icile on your way. I've got a truck load of pres and pros. If that's Kansas City, then I guess not.

svollmer

12-16-2009, 01:10 PM

[quote=opimax;272862]Also if Steve is coming over I would be interested too /quote]Uh-oh—Mid-Atlantic Lansing Meet IV?

'Tis the season...

And don't forget, you're ALL invited over whenever I finally finish my basement. Framing and wiring is done. Bass traps are done. Hope to start the drywall over the holidays. A cabinetmaker friend is making me shelves for CD's.

Still have to build the two more sub boxes and the side/rear diffusors. Hopefully in late winter/early spring.

Sorry Heather; didn't mean to steal your thread! :o:

opimax

12-16-2009, 01:49 PM

"not" it is, south KC from north DC :), I go Interstate 70 most of the way, side roads when intersting. Ohio, Indiana, western Pa,

I am serrious. I would love to stop and hear any systems people will let me. I won't stay long unless I can slep in your drive way for a few hours.

I try to make it it in one sitting but usually take a nap some where for few hours...

Mark

Eaulive

12-16-2009, 04:21 PM

Titanium Dome

12-16-2009, 05:20 PM

I have the Outlaw 990 feeding my JBL Performance Series AVA-7 amp and the attached Performance Series speakers. It serves me quite well.

Since the system is set up solely for music, it mates well with the Oppo DV-980H DVD player I'm using. I purchased a little 7" LCD monitor for help with menus and DVD-A navigation.

I've thought about moving the Outlaw downstairs to replace the Synthesis® SDP-5, since the 990 has 7.1 analog inputs and the SDP-5 only accommodates 5.1 analog inputs. This would allow me to use the 7.1 analog outputs on the Oppo BDP-83 Bluray player down there.

opimax

12-16-2009, 06:44 PM

I have come close to replacing my Sony str-da9000es with the Outlaw 990 a few times...something else has come up the times I was close. I am interested only because of potentially upgrading the 2 channel section. The Emotiva has my eye if it ever comes out too

Mark

baldrick

12-17-2009, 02:15 AM

WOW!!!!

This is very interesting, thanks for the link!

The problem with Outlaw 990 is that it's outdated! It doesn't have HDMI, it doesn't support new HD audio formats, doesn't have modern romm correction....

Did you take a look at the Emotiva I linked too? Emotiva gives great value for money, and is in fact the same as Sherbourn and Sunfire processors but for much less money :)

hjames

12-17-2009, 04:04 AM

This is what you want: Emotiva UMC-1 (http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm)

Is it actually available yet?
I went to the forum and after a quick glance around
it seemed like folks had it on pre-order but didn't have one yet ...
Est price of roughly $700 seems good, tho ...

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi

Eaulive

12-17-2009, 08:36 AM

The problem with Outlaw 990 is that it's outdated! It doesn't have HDMI, it doesn't support new HD audio formats, doesn't have modern romm correction....

Did you take a look at the Emotiva I linked too? Emotiva gives great value for money, and is in fact the same as Sherbourn and Sunfire processors but for much less money :)

Well, you see, for me it's TOO advanced and they forgot something important that my old 1990 Pioneer Elite has: AC3 RF decoder for my LD player :D

BMWCCA

12-17-2009, 08:41 AM

The problem with Outlaw 990 is that it's outdated!
As will all other be in short time. That's the state of the industry.

And where are the phono inputs?

;)

Eaulive

12-17-2009, 10:40 AM

As will all other be in short time. That's the state of the industry.

And where are the phono inputs?

;)

At the bottom, slightly to the left of dead center, with the ground nut just above.

baldrick

12-17-2009, 12:41 PM

Is it actually available yet?
I went to the forum and after a quick glance around
it seemed like folks had it on pre-order but didn't have one yet ...
Est price of roughly $700 seems good, tho ...

As far as I've read noone has gotten them yet, but it's said Emo are going to start shipping this week :)

As will all other be in short time. That's the state of the industry.

And where are the phono inputs?

Well... it's better to buy the newest on the market regarding this than buying something that is already outdated. HD sound (both DTS and Dolby) is the first really big news in quite a few years that have made it really necessary to upgrade to the newest equipment. Last time something simmilar happend was the upgrade from Dolby Pro Logic to AC3/DTS and that is more than 10 years ago now.

So... even though the Outlaw probably is a great preamp, I wouldn't consider buying a new surround preamp or receiver today without HD sound.

hjames

12-17-2009, 07:21 PM

Titanium Dome

12-17-2009, 10:36 PM

Interestingly enough, no one has mentioned HDCD compatibility.
The HK CD changer I have does HDCD, the HK AVR 7300 decodes HDCD -
and I mentioned in a previous thread (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25570), they still seem to be making HDCD discs -
but I don't seen any of these new receiver/processors mentioning that capability ...

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=40520&stc=1&d=1246225710

I guess under normal conditions, I'd just expect the DVD or CD or Bluray player to handle that, then send it analog bypass to the pre/pro, but I don't expressly look for HDCD so it's not on my radar, so to speak. the Oppo BDP-83 handles it through HDMI so you'd need a pre/pro that could decode it.

Mr. Widget

12-18-2009, 12:06 AM

Well... it's better to buy the newest on the market regarding this than buying something that is already outdated. HD sound (both DTS and Dolby) is the first really big news in quite a few years that have made it really necessary to upgrade to the newest equipment. Last time something simmilar happend was the upgrade from Dolby Pro Logic to AC3/DTS and that is more than 10 years ago now.True enough, but as long as you get a quality unit with discrete line level inputs and outputs you can always use the processing in the blu-ray or other source device... often this will give you the highest quality and will be the most future proof.

On the subject of AVRs, feature sets etc... yesterday I was asked to set up a system with a Harman Kardon AVR 3600. I hadn't used any HK receiver since the early '80s so dealing with the HKisms was a bit interesting... I am not crazy about the cheap plastic ring they use as a volume knob, but that is purely subjective. Their iPod dock called "The Bridge" actually worked pretty well, though certainly not audiophile. Over all, the unit was pretty good, but the automatic EQ was simply nasty. When it completed it's sequence the sound was boomy and unintelligible... definitely a "do not use" feature.

Widget

hjames

12-18-2009, 03:43 AM

Got to agree with you there.
In my little space, I tried the autoEQ "ezSet" feature on our older HK AVR 335, and also on the newer AVR7300. On both receivers, once was enough and once I undid the changes I haven't bothered with it since. But the reviews of the new units say they finally got it right :D

... Over all, the unit was pretty good, but the automatic EQ was simply nasty. When it completed it's sequence the sound was boomy and unintelligible... definitely a "do not use" feature.

Widget

Mr. Widget

12-18-2009, 08:32 AM

But the reviews of the new units say they finally got it right :DThe more I learn the less I trust reviews.... but maybe.

Isn't the AVR 3600 that I used a "new" product though?

Widget

Eaulive

12-18-2009, 08:36 AM

I am not crazy about the cheap plastic ring they use as a volume knob, but that is purely subjective.

Widget

Well, you could replace it with a more performant knob...
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/07/astronomically-overp.html

I tried to find the link to the product but it is nowhere to be found... either the dealers got ashamed of themselves or they ran out of stock :D

hjames

12-18-2009, 09:04 AM

The more I learn the less I trust reviews.... but maybe.

Isn't the AVR 3600 that I used a "new" product though?

Widget

Might be - I don't keep up with their model numbers ...
the AVR7300 I had was 2005 era - they show an AVR 7550HD on their website now ...
They also show an AVR 3550HD too, which would sound like an older number to an AVR 3600 model ...

Ah - here is the 3600 on Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-7-1-Channel-Processing-Upscaling/dp/B002IKKFUA

and here is the AVR-7550 - http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-AVR7550HD-Networking-Upgrade/dp/B002E285UO/

But again, who knows with reviewers ...

hjames

02-21-2010, 08:49 PM

This is what you want: Emotiva UMC-1 (http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm)

Well, I had put my name on the waiting list for the Emotiva UMC-1 A/V processor about 6 weeks back - and tonight they emailed me to say they could be ready to ship me once in early April!

Anyone have any actual hands-on with one of these?

http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm

Its just the Preamp-processor/Tuner ... I'd still need amps to run the room - I mean, I have the biamped pair of GFA-555s for the front/mains - and the Citation for the Sub - but I'd need to sort out that Adcom 2535 so it could run the center, and a pair of the L20Ts as surrounds ... and to do 7.1, I'd need one more amp for the rear surrounds.

opimax

02-22-2010, 04:38 AM

I put myself on list before that I thought haven't heard from them though. Seriously thinking about it

Mark

Mr. Widget

02-22-2010, 10:04 AM

Seriously thinking about it...Why? Feature set? Price? Reviews of stellar performance?

I'm curious as I haven't heard anything about it. I am skeptical that it has decent analog performance being in such a compact package, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Widget

opimax

02-22-2010, 10:14 AM

Word of mouth and their claims so far. Not happy w/current Sony str-da9000es all in one unit from 2003-4 design, AV features outdated too much, find it too confining in what is adjustable and what isn't.

It says the correct things to me in the advertisements??? company reputation, I can afford this if I want

Mr. Widget

02-22-2010, 10:25 AM

...company reputation...I guess it is a popular brand over in AVS land?

I have never heard of Emotiva. I guess they used the same branding company as Honda did when they came up with that stellar name, Accura Integra. :barf:

Not trying to turn this into another off beat car thread, I just find some brands work better than others. Sony, Luxman, all of the old dead Americans, Hafler, McIntosh, Fisher, etc. etc... but Emotiva, damn! Some people just try too hard.

So get one and let us know what you think.

Personally for a budget upgrade, I'd probably go for an $800 Denon or Onkyo receiver and use the internal amps for the surrounds.

Widget

Titanium Dome

02-22-2010, 10:49 AM

I toyed with the idea of the Emotiva UMC-1, but did not want to wait. It's an attractive feature set. For the $$$, it's a lot, and Emotiva has a strong, supportive following and a reputation for excellent service. It seems like a really sound choice.

I'm eager to hear some first hand reports. Heather will no doubt give us the full review. I'm pretty sure she'll be writing good things.

Luckily, I found a Synthesis® dealer who could rock my world with a killer deal on the JBL Performance Series AV2 which met all my immediate needs and gave me a little bit of future adaptability, too. It's been a pleasant and gratifying upgrade from my SDP-5 (Lexicon MC-8) unit.

I spent some quality time with the AV2 over the weekend, re-racking several components after removing the SDP-5. I racked the AV2 in a custom rack shelf from MiddleAtlantic ($23.00 off ebay) and moved it closer to the Oppo BDP-83SE and Mitsu LD player. I ordered some 18" interconnects from Monoprice (excellent quality, killer price) and really cleaned up the tangle in the back of the equipment closet.

Anyway, with all that I also reconfigured the inputs to allow TrueHD and DTS-HD streams through the 7.1 output of the Oppo into the 7.1 inputs of the AV2. Wow, what a difference in movie audio!

So again, a great combination like the Oppo BDP-83SE and a flexible pre/pro with great 7.1 analog input with analog bypass is a very compelling choice.

In my case, the AV2 is a terrific choice. I imagine the Emotiva will be very rewarding to those who buy it as well.

Valentin

02-22-2010, 11:15 AM

sysnthesis av2 is the same as the lexicon MV5
do you use it also for two chanel listening

any coments

Titanium Dome

02-22-2010, 11:19 AM

sysnthesis av2 is the same as the lexicon MV5

As noted in this thread:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27466&highlight=Performance+Series+Av2

opimax

02-22-2010, 12:47 PM

TI DOme said "It seems like a really sound choice"

if it is a "sound choice" I will be puchasing it :D

Mark

Titanium Dome

02-24-2010, 09:48 AM

TI DOme said "It seems like a really sound choice"

if it is a "sound choice" I will be puchasing it :D

Mark

I'm going to change "seems like" to "doesn't seem like" after reading the experiences of current owners on other forums. Wow! It seems to be quite the debacle for some folks. There are a few positive experiences as well.

I'd urge everyone thinking about the UMC-1 to do some careful reading before purchase. Perhaps software will take care of the more common complaints, but I'd wait until the results are in.

There is a 30 day return window, so you'd only lose shipping if you got it and it wasn't what you hoped.

hjames

02-24-2010, 10:25 AM

I'm going to change "seems like" to "doesn't seem like" after reading the experiences of current owners on other forums. Wow! It seems to be quite the debacle for some folks. There are a few positive experiences as well.

I'd urge everyone thinking about the UMC-1 to do some careful reading before purchase. Perhaps software will take care of the more common complaints, but I'd wait until the results are in.

There is a 30 day return window, so you'd only lose shipping if you got it and it wasn't what you hoped.

Yep, plus in the one forum the owner pushed the return date up to be 30 days from the date of the Software update, instead of the original date of delivery ...

But plenty of time to read more, and decide if I'm going to buy one ...

Titanium Dome

02-24-2010, 12:05 PM

sysnthesis av2 is the same as the lexicon MV5
do you use it also for two chanel listening

any coments

To keep Heather's thread on track, I've responded to your question in the AV2 thread, beginning in post 34.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=280262#post280262

hjames

04-18-2010, 07:02 PM

Not sure what happened - the Harman Kardon AVR 7300 has generally been a nice unit. 'Course I pull the front MAINS at preamp level to feed the Biamp rack for the 4341 monitors, (and the sub has its own amp) but I use the internal amps for the LC-2 Center and for the side and rear surrounds (L20T3 and L20T).

Well, yesterday I came downstairs with the latest Doctor Who on CD, loaded it in the Oppo to watch, and turned on the HK - a moment later every light on the display came on and stayed on ... it had locked up tight. I power cycled it a few times, no change. I turned it off and left it off all night. Powered it up this morning - again, every icon and image on the faceplate came on and stayed on... it's frelled!

So - I checked Craigslist today to find a temporary standby unit so I can at least watch TV and movies while I figure out what to do next. I suspect that's the last HK receiver I'll buy ... it was top of the line - but its out of warrantee and its basically junk now. what a shame.

Anyway, I just picked up a used Yamaha RX-V2095 - - when it was new it was top of the line, suggest list of $1599 (January '99, I think) ... Its a few years older that the AVR 7300, doesn't have HDMI or component video, but does have optical feeds, preamp outs and 7 channels - 100w/ch - tho it has those front "effect" channels to give a height effect for surrounds... I can turn off all those goofy DSP effects ... and it has a turntable input (!) so I've hooked my Denon directly, bypassing the Carver preamp for now.
I'll probably just run it in 5.1 mode. Again, its just meant to be a cheap replacement until i figure out what to do next ...

The feedback on the UMC-1 Emotiva seemed kind of iffy - so I'll probably avoid that one.

More info later - once I've had a chance to check it out some more -

clmrt

04-18-2010, 07:29 PM

I predict you will hate the complexty of the Yamaha's setup routine. The HK gear of the 7300's era was a snap.

hjames

04-19-2010, 02:42 AM

I predict you will hate the complexity of the Yamaha's setup routine. The HK gear of the 7300's era was a snap.

Of course, with the mixed speakers and mains bypassed for biamp, the auto - balance never really worked here anyway, so I had to do that by hand. And one early problem with our AVR-7300 is whenever we took a power outage, I had to0 go in and reprogram everything all over again (which optical on which source, reset channel levels, force TT to stereo instead of that synthesized 7 ch default, etc. etc).

Then again, the Yamaha cost me $130, instead of the $400 I paid for the AVR7300 2 years ago ... so I expect it to be just a temporary placeholder.

Darned shame - the HK receiver I bought before (AVR 335 or some such) was just fine, but - it was like they exceeded their comfortable complexity point with the AVR 7300. So - no more newer HK receivers for me!

Mr. Widget

04-19-2010, 08:10 AM

...instead of the $400 I paid for the AVR7300 2 years ago...Only two years old and now landfill? That is not good. This is one example of how our accounting system lets us down... manufacturers should have to take back their old junk and fix it or properly recycle it. I suppose the bean counter/market mentality types would say that the market does correct itself by the fact that people like yourself won't buy another HK AVR... and to some extent that does work, but in the mean time you are out an AVR and Harman squandered the natural resources used to create and ship that item... we can't continue building and selling disposable products with our precious resources.

I know that many on this forum use HK AVRs, I am not sure if they do so out of loyalty to Harman or if it is due to the fact that HK products are typically being offered at very, very low prices.

We sell Integra, do they sound better? I doubt it... do they cost a bit more, usually. The main reason we sell them is because they come with a three year warranty... everybody's stuff breaks, but being able to get them fixed under warranty for a year longer than most other brands at the same relative cost is a big deal. Especially since most products that have a weak link will fail within that three year window. Ever wonder why most cheap electronics have a one year warranty?

Widget

hjames

04-19-2010, 08:33 AM

Only two years old and now landfill? That is not good. This is one example of how our accounting system lets us down... manufacturers should have to take back their old junk and fix it or properly recycle it. I suppose the bean counter/market mentality types would say that the market does correct itself by the fact that people like yourself won't buy another HK AVR... and to some extent that does work, but in the mean time you are out an AVR and Harman squandered the natural resources used to create and ship that item... we can't continue building and selling disposable products with our precious resources.

I know that many on this forum use HK AVRs, I am not sure if they do so out of loyalty to Harman or if it is due to the fact that HK products are typically being offered at very, very low prices.

Widget

I will say that it was a few years used when I bought it at $400 - really glad I didn't pay the $2000 or so retail price I saw quoted in the reviews ... who-wee! I'd previously had a lesser model HK before (AVR 335 or similar) and I thought that stepping up to their top of the line was a good move. But my HK fondness ends here. At least for the new stuff

I agree - I sure hate putting anything this recent on the curb for trash - its inefficient and not very green - that really sours me on this side of the brand ...

SEAWOLF97

04-19-2010, 10:09 AM

But my HK fondness ends here. At least for the new stuff

I agree - I sure hate putting anything this recent on the curb for trash - its inefficient and not very green - that really sours me on this side of the brand ...

I see a large amount of modern Chinese HK stuff in the thrifts , the small number of pieces that I've purchased there have been defective. Doubt that I'd buy one new, even if I was in the market .

hjames

04-19-2010, 11:47 AM

I see a large amount of modern Chinese HK stuff in the thrifts , the small number of pieces that I've purchased there have been defective. Doubt that I'd buy one new, even if I was in the market .

Yep - but, its hard to find any AV Receiver that's semi-affordable that isn't Chinese made ... innit?

SEAWOLF97

04-19-2010, 11:59 AM

Yep - but, its hard to find any AV Receiver that's semi-affordable that isn't Chinese made ... innit?

Darned right...thot I was staying out of that trap by buying the classic Japanese Denon AVR - but MadeInChina too. Had a cold solder joint , straight from the factory , otherwise first class fit & finish ..its one with the setup mic AND a phono section , but I see a lot of Denons on CL , reliability problems like HK ??? :dont-know

JBLAddict

04-25-2010, 08:39 AM

Darned right...thot I was staying out of that trap by buying the classic Japanese Denon AVR - but MadeInChina too. Had a cold solder joint , straight from the factory , otherwise first class fit & finish ..its one with the setup mic AND a phono section , but I see a lot of Denons on CL , reliability problems like HK ??? :dont-know

as much as the Northridge situation is hurting some people, the move to foreign manufacturing is simply the tide of the world, by no means exclusive to JBL.

If not mistaken, I was told B&W is mfg their high end speakers in China now, and just the same as high end JBL, talking about >$20K+ models.....

as some have stated they are done with JBL come June, I wonder if there's a list of quality AV component manufacturers still manufacturing in the country where headquartered?

Titanium Dome

04-25-2010, 12:29 PM

I wonder if there's a list of quality AV component manufacturers still manufacturing in the country where headquartered?

That sounds like a thread topic. :)

EDIT: Here you go: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?28446-Name-A-V-companies-manufacturing-in-country-of-origin&p=286511#post286511

JBLAddict

04-25-2010, 04:39 PM

That sounds like a thread topic. :)

EDIT: Here you go: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?28446-Name-A-V-companies-manufacturing-in-country-of-origin&p=286511#post286511

always Johnny on the spot!:)

when I opened your new thread and saw the 8 minutes that had elapsed, I literally laughed out loud, not the obligatory LOL acronym stuff:D

looking forward to the new thread, am truly interested in which of the "big names" selling big $ gear are doing it with dollar a day labor?

btw, I think someone's got someone should have some L250s to tell us about, eh?

hjames

06-08-2010, 06:52 PM

I took one last chance on HK receivers - I bought a Harman Kardon AVR 347 receiver to use as a front end via Harman Direct through eBay.
Its got 2 HDMI ports, Logic 7, and all the usual stuff (no phono, of course) - 7 x 50w/ch. Price was around $250 delivered ...
I thought it would at least work better than the Yamaha I bought in a hurry when the AVR 7300 failed on me ... and that replaced a perfectly fine HK AVR 335 that I "only" replaced because the 7300 was supposed to have the faroudja circuits to improve video ...

Well - I got it installed today - OnScreen Display settings are way dumbed down from the 2 previous HK receivers I had. After watching some TV Emma said it felt REAL HOT - so we put a digital thermometer on top and it got to 150 degrees when we stopped counting.

When I pause the TIVOHD I think it goes into some kind of HDMI hunt mode - you can hear a tickTICK sound through the speakers ... It doesn't do HDCD decoding, and it doesn't seem to self-detect DTS vs DD when sent from the OPPO.

SO, its going back for a full refund as soon as I can get an RMA number ...

I shoulda kept the original HK AVR 335 receiver that I started with!

That's it - for real - no more of this newer Harman "stuff" - they are dead to me now.

I will keep the Citation AMP on my Sub, and the older hk740 receiver tied to L20T3s in the office for my Mac mini.

4313B

06-09-2010, 06:45 AM

:rotfl:

I was talking to our favorite XXX engineer a couple weeks ago about stuff and these H/K things came up... :barf:

Have you checked out the Emotiva gear? They're pretty up front about where the stuff is made. My only concern is buying it, and in so doing, supporting the slave labor market. It's pretty bad when you have to check where everything you buy is made to ensure that you aren't supporting some skank loser lining their own pockets at the expense of everything and everyone else around them.

Change finally afoot for China's workers (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/change-finally-afoot-for-chinas-workers/article1590744/&sa=X&ei=t5UPTPS5IIH98Abt-czOCA&ved=0CJcBEKkCKAEwCQ&usg=AFQjCNF99qjRCHP7fywjlj0ros7yCQuZxg)‎

The Last Gasps of Slavery Slave Labor Builds The Last Two Large ... (http://beforeitsnews.com/news/73/873/The_Last_Gasps_of_Slavery_Slave_Labor_Builds_The_L ast_Two_Large_Nations_On_Earth.html)

hjames

06-09-2010, 09:48 AM

Yep, thanks - I've got an order in with Emotiva for a UMC-1 right now, as a matter of fact. I'd been undecided, but with their 30 day return policy, plus this lousy Harman refurb - that made my mind up to take a shot at it. I have enough Adcom amps around to use as mains, surrounds and such for 5.1 mode ... so all I really need is a front end processor anyway ... and everything else like it is twice the price or more ...

I'll let you know how it works.

:rotfl:

I was talking to our favorite XXX engineer a couple weeks ago about stuff and these H/K things came up... :barf:

Have you checked out the Emotiva gear? They're pretty up front about where the stuff is made. My only concern is buying it, and in so doing, supporting the slave labor market. It's pretty bad when you have to check where everything you buy is made to ensure that you aren't supporting some skank loser lining their own pockets at the expense of everything and everyone else around them.

Change finally afoot for China's workers (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/change-finally-afoot-for-chinas-workers/article1590744/&sa=X&ei=t5UPTPS5IIH98Abt-czOCA&ved=0CJcBEKkCKAEwCQ&usg=AFQjCNF99qjRCHP7fywjlj0ros7yCQuZxg)‎

The Last Gasps of Slavery Slave Labor Builds The Last Two Large ... (http://beforeitsnews.com/news/73/873/The_Last_Gasps_of_Slavery_Slave_Labor_Builds_The_L ast_Two_Large_Nations_On_Earth.html)

4313B

06-09-2010, 10:21 AM

and everything else like it is twice the price or more.And very likely right out of the same factory...

opimax

06-09-2010, 11:16 AM

Heather ,
I quit looking at the Emotiva after all the issues. Also, they never sent me an updated "do you want to buy" after they sent me they are behind from early April, very interested in your experience

Mark

hjames

06-09-2010, 12:42 PM

Heather ,
I quit looking at the Emotiva after all the issues. Also, they never sent me an updated do you want to buy after they sent me they are behind from early April, very interested in your experience

Mark

I had been on the waiting list before, but didn't order then due to issues I read in their forum. But after my Top-of-the-Line Harman Kardon AVR 7300 just locked up solid - dead, and then the refurbed AVR 347 arrived (and its basically just cheap cr#p), what have i got to lose? At least I'm promised an RMA a refund for the HK AVR 347 - Of course, I'm just hosed for the 7300. Considering I all my money on the AVR7300, I couldn't do WORSE ...
(still waiting for someone to get back to me with an RMA number ... Bueller, Bueller, Bueller ...)

Emotiva has a 30 day return policy that doesn't start until they release the final firmware ... so the risk is minimal.

Heck - its even 5 HDMI sources and got all the fancy decoder chips and special modes!

Since I never did think 7.1 made a difference with my sources, in that room, I have enough Adcom amps laying around already to do 5.1 mode - using the GFA-555s for the mains, and that 2535 with one pair bridged to run my center channel and the other pair for my rears.

The B-380 has been great with the Citation amp bridged to mono ... its the only Harman Kardon gear in that room - and it predates this new BPC (Black Plastic Crap) era HK ... I'll def keep it!

The Emotiva is on the way and due Friday ... I'll let you know!

[email protected]

06-09-2010, 09:33 PM

I see a large amount of modern Chinese HK stuff in the thrifts , the small number of pieces that I've purchased there have been defective. Doubt that I'd buy one new, even if I was in the market .

harman/kardon is crap. No doubt about it. I've sent my 3490 at least three times before I got a non-defective unit.

It's a damn shame. It's such a great brand. Shame it went to the shitters.

4313B

06-10-2010, 08:11 AM

harman/kardon is crap. No doubt about it. I've sent my 3490 at least three times before I got a non-defective unit.

It's a damn shame. It's such a great brand. Shame it went to the shitters.Yep. They've had some outstanding products over the years (The Citation XX was the pinnacle). Times have changed. :barf:

hjames

06-10-2010, 07:15 PM

Ok - jerked that AVR 347 out and boxed it for the RMA shipment "home".

Rebuilt the "sources" rack and installed the Adcom GFA-2535 4 ch amp - bridged one pair for 150w to run the JBL LC-2 center, using the other 50w/ch pair to run the L20T rear surrounds.

Gotta give John kudos for telling me about that amp - seems to be working perfectly in that use.

Still have the biamp rack wired as before - Ashly crossover feeding a pair of Adcom GFA-555s for the mains (4341s)

Have that HK Citation 22 (bridged) in place for the B-380 sub ...

Everything is set for 5.1 mode ...

All I need now is the Emotiva, due to arrive tomorrow, and some config time to set it all up!

grumpy

06-11-2010, 08:24 AM

:lurk: It'll be interesting to get your reaction to the Emotiva product after you've lived
with it for a bit (having no experience with them myself).

hjames

06-12-2010, 03:13 PM

Well, got it in the rack, got things working. Gone through many set up screens - whew!

The sound is really good - but - there are a few image related things ...
I have had a glitch/pixelation on the TIVOHD (been kind of an ongoing problem with COX CATV - its heavily compressed to fit more channels in).
It seems sensitive to any small glitch/drop-out in the image - I think that's an HDMI handshaking thing

And at one point yesterday I was scrolling through input sources and - and - the emotiva just hung/froze when it hit APPLETV -
I had to reach around to the rear of the unit and do a hard power cycle to restart it.

I suspect it's also related to the HDMI handshaking - seems a lot of folks have problems with that -

Honestly, I think this HDMI crap isn't ready for the general public - its a MESS!

hjames

06-13-2010, 06:11 AM

Just went back and re-read TiDome's JBL AV-2 thread.
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27466-JBL-Performance-Series-AV2

The AV2 only has 2 HDMI ports and it sounds like he skipped that signal buss.
It looks like he ran Composite in and out only - tho it appears his only video source is from the OPPO BR. (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=43781&stc=1&d=1263712360)
He seemed dismissive of the current state of HDMI ... a point I'm considering as well.

Perhaps that's a winning strategy for me as well -
sounds like its time to pull the rack out (again) and switch out HDMI to component for my (3) video sources (TIVOHD, OPPO DVD, APPLETV).

From what I've read, video source quality from low to high is in this order - Composite (single RCA); S-video (Y, C); Component (Y, Cr, Cb or Y, Pb, Pr); then HDMI.

Component sounds like the best compromise for me, just below the DRM-ladden HDMI mess ...

Titanium Dome

06-13-2010, 08:46 AM

Looks like it's time for me to update that thread a little. ;)

But you are correct that HDMI is a mess, and a new spec is right around the corner: HDMI 1.4! It'd be great to have all the bugs worked out of 1.3 first, eh?

Just went back and re-read TiDome's JBL AV-2 thread.
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27466-JBL-Performance-Series-AV2

The AV2 only has 2 HDMI ports and it sounds like he skipped that signal buss.
It looks like he ran Composite in and out only - tho it appears his only video source is from the OPPO BR. (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=43781&stc=1&d=1263712360)
He seemed dismissive of the current state of HDMI ... a point I'm considering as well.

Perhaps that's a winning strategy for me as well -
sounds like its time to pull the rack out (again) and switch out HDMI to component for my (3) video sources (TIVOHD, OPPO DVD, APPLETV).

From what I've read, video source quality from low to high is in this order - Composite (single RCA); S-video (Y, C); Component (Y, Cr, Cb or Y, Pb, Pr); then HDMI.

Component sounds like the best compromise for me, just below the DRM-ladden HDMI mess ...

hjames

06-13-2010, 10:46 AM

Looks like it's time for me to update that thread a little. ;)

But you are correct that HDMI is a mess, and a new spec is right around the corner: HDMI 1.4! It'd be great to have all the bugs worked out of 1.3 first, eh?

Yep - I'm really getting hesitant about this computer driven audio gear - seems the HDMI stuff does hang it sometimes, and that's just flat annoying. Also has the potential to push signals outside the range you might want to your audio outputs, and that's a bit frightening!

Anyway, thanks for updating your notes ...
I'm going back downstairs now to switch the Emotiva vids to component cables and remove the HDMI wiring -
and see if that's enough to make this thing a keeper.

Edit - 1 hour later.
yep, that did it! Picture quality on the TIVOHD through the Emotiva to the Philips TV is still very good - found the Star Trek (reboot) movie on a channel called EPIX and its working good, full 5.1 audio (from optical source) plus video is nice with Component cables ...

I left the OPPO 981HD on HDMI - but ran it direct to the TV to avoid glitching through the Emotiva.

4313B

06-13-2010, 11:38 AM

Honestly, I think this HDMI crap isn't ready for the general public - its a MESS!You got that right! :barf:

Hoerninger

06-13-2010, 12:35 PM

s I'm mainly an Audio-Man the display is only necessary for the DVD menues.

The DVD player is connected via S-Video to a (cheap chinese) video/VGA converter which feeds a 21 inch monitor.
An additional TV set up box (DVBT) uses a second converter's video in, which will be switched just there.

The receiver switches only audio: DVD (digital, analog), TV (digital), TT with built in equalizer (anlog ;)).

(For the moment addionally a PC is connected to the receiver for record and playback of sound alone.
____________
Peter

hjames

06-15-2010, 07:20 AM

Final prognosis - we still get some overload/blue-screen effect when there are overly bright flashes on screen, even using Component video instead of the previous HDMI ... something gets overloaded and - the image just goes away for a bit ...

So, I'm not quite comfortable with it as beta gear for $700 ... I wrote Emotiva this morning for an RMA number so I could ship this thing back. I just got the number - but - I have to decide if I'll give it another week/weekend before I return it ...

The bottom line is - if not this, then what??

Yep - I'm really getting hesitant about this computer driven audio gear - seems the HDMI stuff does hang it sometimes, and that's just flat annoying. Also has the potential to push signals outside the range you might want to your audio outputs, and that's a bit frightening!

Anyway, thanks for updating your notes ...
I'm going back downstairs now to switch the Emotiva vids to component cables and remove the HDMI wiring -
and see if that's enough to make this thing a keeper.

Edit - 1 hour later.
yep, that did it! Picture quality on the TIVOHD through the Emotiva to the Philips TV is still very good - found the Star Trek (reboot) movie on a channel called EPIX and its working good, full 5.1 audio (from optical source) plus video is nice with Component cables ...

I left the OPPO 981HD on HDMI - but ran it direct to the TV to avoid glitching through the Emotiva.

grumpy

06-15-2010, 08:23 AM

3x the price, but...

http://www.hometheatermag.com/preampprocessors/integra_dhc-801_surround_processor/index.html

It's one of a few separate HT processors I'd consider... problem being the price goes up from there.

I have a lower-end/older Onkyo receiver with many of the same features (same mfg),
but it was at a price I couldn't pass up, and does well enough for now (HT-RC180, <$600...
separate amp used for subs). No HDMI glitches with Sony source and display.

Widget might have some suggestions :dont-know:

(I see a Marantz AV8003 refurb is $1500...)

4313B

06-15-2010, 08:58 AM

Isn't two-channel grand! :rotfl:

So, I'm not quite comfortable with it as beta gear for $700 ... I wrote Emotiva this morning for an RMA number so I could ship this thing back. I just got the number - but - I have to decide if I'll give it another week/weekend before I return it ...Well that's too bad. It's amazing how much junk is out there anymore. And the counterfeit stuff is even more hilarious.

grumpy

06-15-2010, 09:05 AM

yep. at least you can pick from 75 year old to yesterday's equipment and it will still work
just fine... the only handshaking required is to close "the deal" :D

BMWCCA

06-15-2010, 09:06 AM

Isn't two-channel grand! :rotfl:

:thmbsup:

Though I am sorry to hear about Heather's problems with this system. A long-while back I was asking about controller/pre-amp front-ends that would handle two-channel and surround for TV. The addition of the 4345s into our family room has our old CRT as the limit to the video experience, not the audio. My kids can fill the room with the feed from the (old technology) DVD player to the 4345s and rattle the window easily, if the soundtrack has that material. I guess all I really miss is a remote control for volume control, and we all need the exercise.

Titanium Dome

06-15-2010, 09:13 AM

If HDMI is off the table, there's no better deal than this right now. There are three ATI models to choose from: 6700, 7700, 8700. All are NIB at 80%+ discounts.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/search2.pl?seller&Classic_audio_parts

With my current set up running HDMI from the Oppo BDP83-SE direct to the projector, and running 7.1 analog out from the Oppo to the JBL AV2, I easily could have used one of these units and played Bluray discs all day long.

Uh, did I mention Made in USA?

http://www.ati-amp.com/atp8700.html

4313B

06-15-2010, 09:18 AM

Uh, did I mention Made in USA?Weird... I wonder what their problem is...

Titanium Dome

06-15-2010, 09:21 AM

Just to keep everyone honest, this isn't a stereo vs. surround issue. It's an interface issue.

Okay, men, carry on. ;)

HCSGuy

06-15-2010, 09:24 AM

I think that HDMI is killing the A/V pre/pro market. The rate at which it is changing requires re-engineering your product every year, and the mid/high end separate manufacturers (B&K, Parasound, etc) can't keep up. If they try, they are left with vaporware and if they release something it is already outdated.

If you need Balanced outputs, I don't know what to recommend in a front end - I've used the Marantz AV8003 several times, but have not been impressed - It acts like a $750 receiver with a different back panel. However, when we've used it it has been understood to be the best compromise available until something better comes. Again, if you need Balanced and don't have a Lexicon Budget, I don't know what else to do (B&K Ref70, maybe).

We do use a lot of receivers as front end to Parasound or B&K Amplifiers, though, as the Japanese companies are really fast at keeping their products current. Yamaha's high end receivers have always had front ends I like, and the current RX-Z9 is an amazingly good sounding receiver. Unfortunately, as it's HDMI 1.3a, it's outdated, but if you don't need 3D or the other 1.4 features and are OK with RCA outputs, look for one used.

HCSGuy

06-15-2010, 09:30 AM

I assume ATI is clearing the decks of the old stuff, which never really caught on. Even at 80% off, though, I don't think I'd bite.

They are a super-stable company, and aren't going anywhere. They purchased Theta last year, and so I anticipate a new line of pre/pros coming under this brand...

Titanium Dome

06-15-2010, 09:44 AM

hjames

06-15-2010, 11:38 AM

Isn't two-channel grand! :rotfl:

Well that's too bad. It's amazing how much junk is out there anymore. And the counterfeit stuff is even more hilarious.

Of course, I don't really run 2-channel in that room much ... (I do have vinyl and CD set for 2 channel mode) - mostly its TV and DVDs which are primarily 5.1 sources ... and some SACD/DVD-A surround music thats also fun.

With all the new gear doing bupkis for me - I checked the Harman support site and they list an out-or-warantee service firm near me - $60 for an estimate ... So, I'm going to take the HK AVR-7300 to them and, if they can fix it for under $250-300 (or close), I may as well give that a shot, as nothing else comes even close pricewise or soundwise ...

The 7300 was very spouse friendly, it required no extra amps for the surround and center channels (Mains and Sub have dedicated amps already, of course), and frankly, the pictures were very nice in Component video mode. Worst case I'll just run the OPPO HDMI direct to the TV like I'm doing right now ...

4313B

06-15-2010, 01:37 PM

I'm probably going to stick with my old AVR7200 as well.

JeffW

06-15-2010, 05:21 PM

I guess I got lucky. I bought a Marantz SR5003 (http://us.marantz.com/Products/2514.asp) for $500 since it was last year's last year model.

It does 7.1 (I only use 5.0, no sub), dts HD MA, Dolby TrueHD...about the highest powered audio streams I use plus a lot of other audio stuff. Has source direct for audio and video, HDMI 1.3a (only 3 inputs). Hooked up to the Oppo BDP-83 I can skip the video processing of the AVR.

It has pre-amp outs for all channels, so I run amps on the front 2. I run the 2 channel audio through a separate pre-amp so I don't rely on the Marantz for 2 ch music although I can, and have a few multi channel audio recordings that I run thru it, seems to do OK, but a press of a button and I'm source direct off the Oppo (it's an SE model, seems to do OK).

I've never had an HDMI freeze, this is my first "Home Theatre" system and it's pretty dang seamless with the Oppo and DirecTV HD as my inputs, does all the BluRay with surround to a tee and the Oppo takes care of the DVD upconverting (the HD video upconverting of this unit is supposedly pretty rudimentary, but I don't really care with the sources I run).

The menu is sort of clunky, but it's not hard to navigate. Has Audyssey room EQ built in, 3 year warranty.

So nowhere near TOTL or SOTA, but I sure don't have any regrets. In fact, other than the menu, I really like it.

hjames

06-20-2010, 10:01 AM

Was playing some multichannel mix DTS music and realized the sub wasn't playing.
Went into Emotiva setups and dinked with it - it would come on for a while but not stay on.

So - pure frustration, pulled out the rack, pulled out the boxes, pulled the Emotiva and boxed it up for return, and put the Yamaha RX-V2095 back in place, with the Monoprice HDMI switch for video selection.
The Yam doesn't do Component vid - its pretty old, but it does do 5.1 well, and I'm getting better at the config screens (grin) ...

The sound is a bit veiled again, sadly (the Emotiva does SOUND good) - but - maybe I'll have positive news on the HK AVR 7300 thats out for repairs ...

And I'll get the $699 back for the Emotiva by week's end (with any luck!)

Titanium Dome

06-20-2010, 10:17 AM

rdgrimes

06-20-2010, 10:46 AM

The Emotiva UMC-1 fiasco makes an excellent case study in how NOT to release new gear. It's completely new technology for the company, from stem to stern, and they were eventually forced to release it in a beta state after a year+ of delays. What followed will go down in history as one of the all-time great FUBAR scenarios.

Several other companies recently canceled release of new pre/pro or AVRs for similar reasons.

It shows gross incompetence, unchecked greed, and complete lack of leadership.
You left out: disrespect for the consumers.

hjames

06-20-2010, 01:46 PM

It's mind-boggling that in 2010 our biggest challenge is finding a decent, up-to-date, full-featured AV pre/pro. Even the more promising units are full of bugs regardless of cost and some of the high end brands seem to be in a holding pattern waiting for the effing morons who run the business side of the current "standards and licensing" groups to stop effing around. The inability of these dipsticks to get their money-grubbing, control-freak spit together is jeopardizing the industry.

It's already killed some brands, mortally wounded others, and neutralized most of the rest into either producing nothing or rushing out stuff that doesn't work well and is behind the times in six months or less. It shows gross incompetence, unchecked greed, and complete lack of leadership.

EDIT: Good luck with your return and your repair.

yeah, really killed me to come to the decision to ship it back. It really sounded great, maybe the best thing I've had in the system. But HDMI wasn't ready and had drop outs, and - even when I ran just component video - whenever there would be big transitions from black to very white - like, the page of text that comes up at the end of Big Bang Theory, or the glint of white when the globe spins by at the start of The Daily Show - those sharp transitions would cause some kind of overload and I'd get a blue screen instead of my video ... some threshold was exceeded and it was gone ...

I watched 3 episodes of Big Bang Theory last night with Emma, off the TIVOHD,
and the picture dropped out at the same spot on every episode, right at the so called "Vanity Plate" at the end of each the episode.

Its a darned shame because, when its working right, the UMC-1 sound is GORGEOUS - but that's not enough if its intermittent.
Anyway, much as I liked the sound, if the video doesn't work consistently and the sub wasn't regular ... its outta heyah!

hjames

06-27-2010, 06:16 PM

Well, I did have SOME success this weekend - I've had a residual hum in the system for a while - I think since I switched from the JBL Pro amps to the pair of Adcom 555s.

Tried getting rid of it a couple of times but had no success. Of course, rolling out the left speaker and the main rack, and pulling the rear access panel takes some doing, and we HAVE had other things to do, so I've lived with it for a while.

With no input cables the Adcoms are silent, so I know it was the Ashley, the Yam EQ, or the input leads to the rack that caused the problem.
And since bypassing the EQ had no effect, I knew the EQ was not the problem.

On Tuesday after work I even soldered up new XLR-RCA cables to jump from the Ashley to the Adcom amps, but that had no effect. Currently I'm using the original Male Phone- female phono adapters and 2 pair of phono cables in their place.

Saturday I switched some power plugs around and commoned everything, which I swear I had done before - but - I put the Adcom ACE-515 power strip on a 3 pin AC adapter to isolated the ground - and this time, that did it - its all silent now.

Well, if I crank the Yamaha Receiver REALLY HIGH I can hear the noise floor, but at normal levels the system is silent. I know, its supposed to have been like that all along, but it wasn't. Work and life intrude, debug time is infrequent and brief, and the most recent task in the room was configing/testing/sorting out the Emotiva Preamp that I just returned.

Currently, I am using all external amps, Adcom mostly, except for the old HK on the B380 sub, and awaiting news from the bench tech on the HK AVR 7300 estimate/repair cost.

SEAWOLF97

06-27-2010, 06:37 PM

AV Component Front-ends (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27150-AV-Component-Front-ends)

Thoughts comments, brand loyalties?

I have no practical experience, but many around here seem to be tracking down Integra AV gear....higher end Onkyo ?

http://www.integrahometheater.com/

hjames

07-15-2010, 01:50 PM

... awaiting news from the bench tech on the HK AVR 7300 estimate/repair cost.

Ok - it had been a month since I dropped the HK AVR7300 off for repairs -
paid the $60 for an estimate, he said he'd call me in a week, so I waited.
At 2 weeks I called - nothing yet ...
At 4 weeks, today, I called - he checked and the microprocessor (DSP) chip is bad, and is unavailable - and since everything goes through the chip - its landfill material.

Recent Harman Freakin Kardon gear - :banghead: NOT RECOMMENDED!
I suggest their Vintage gear only.

opimax

07-15-2010, 02:12 PM

I have a nice Sony 9000es , compnet and dvi switching, none of that foolish HDMI stuff, we could talk :eek:

sorry to hear

Mark

4313B

07-15-2010, 03:21 PM

Ok - it had been a month since I dropped the HK AVR7300 off for repairs -
paid the $60 for an estimate, he said he'd call me in a week, so I waited.
At 2 weeks I called - nothing yet ...
At 4 weeks, today, I called - he checked and the microprocessor (DSP) chip is bad, and is unavailable - and since everything goes through the chip - its landfill material.

Recent Harman Freakin Kardon gear - :banghead: NOT RECOMMENDED!I'd ship it back to them before I'd toss it in the landfill. Tell them to put it through a shredder at their expense. We can't keep putting all this garbage in landfills that these jerk-off loser manufacturers keep dumping on the world market... I know they want all this crap they are making to be throw-away. Just make sure you throw it away in their backyard and not yours. :D
I suggest their Vintage gear only.If you have the skills to keep it running then go for it. Some of the models were lemons even way back when but most of it was better than average.

clmrt

08-07-2010, 08:25 PM

Time for an update. Still running the Yamaha?

hjames

08-08-2010, 04:56 AM

Time for an update. Still running the Yamaha?

Yamaha seems to be working well, and the sound is good.

One of the Adcom 555s developed a faint hum, but ... turns out it's not from the speakers!
I traced it to specific chassis - a transformer is physically humming (annoying in quiet passages)!

So far, the only flaw is that its a bit awkward reading the Yam's display from the sofa,
and the remote is a bit creaky - but otherwise, it works fine!

Update on the Harman AVR 7300:

- I sent an email to Harman Support mentioned the repair shop I took it to found the problem,
but can't fix it because they couldn't get parts for it. Since US law says parts must be available for 7 years, why can't we get this fixed?

He says parts ARE available, but I must use THEIR authorized service centers to get them ...
I sent him a link back showing that I had used the HarmanKardon site to find a repair shop from their recommend centers list.
I took the AVR 7300 to them, and that the recommended shop says DSP is No Longer Available ...

The last email I sent back to him said:

"I paid a reasonable $60 for an estimate, and 30 days later he says he can't do the repair because parts for it aren't available.
But you say parts ARE available - so somebody isn't telling the truth!

Federal law says parts MUST be available, but the repair center YOU recommend can't get them.

How do we resolve this and move forward?"

If nothing comes of this, its time for phone tag ...

clmrt

08-08-2010, 06:42 AM

These days some companies are too big to manage their own policies.

Glad the Yam is working out. Always good to have a plan B!!

lgvenable

08-12-2010, 04:35 PM

I've been happy with an Integra DHC80.1.

Here's my issue. It seems that everyone and their brother design their new equipment with new interfaces. So we have HDMI 1.3, 1.3a, b and what c; then we have 1.4. Why the heck can't some electircal engineers use their brains; as everytime they fork a connector, then the manufacturers want to rush out and use them, obsoleting a connector after a year or two of use.

So my DHC 80.1 has 1.3C, and backwards compatability. Except, now they add a LAN connection and playback connections through HDMI to go 1.4.

Why?

You can do better LAN connections though standard LAN cables; and we've had playback through tape connections for years; so why does some idiot put these into an HDMI interface; meaning that my less than a year old DHC 80.1 has an obsolete connector!!!!!

Or does it, I'm no EE, but I'd assume some enterprising person will design a 1.3C (or a or b....) connector with a playback cable with LAN and playback connectors, or an interface for 1.4 HDMI equipment; so you can interconnect these new components with great pre-pro's like mine which are 1.3C..a..b..c...

Oh, or I could just use the LAN cable in the LAN connector on the back, or the playback loop for the tape deck (which I'd guess is still there; then again; I don't use cassettes anymore either.)

Does anyone else out there think that things are changing so fast, that you feel like you're getting burned by manufacturers not making sure their 1 year old designs don't get obsoleted too quickly. I might be on rant here; but sometimes engineers need to build in backwards compatibility for the folks who pay their salaries by buying their equipment.

I'm reminded of another thread, where someone commented that a VP at Harmen thought a speakers lifetime was 2 years.:blink: Duh. My L100A's were bought in 1979 and are still going strong.

hjames

08-12-2010, 05:58 PM

That whole constantly evolving HDMI mess ticked me off no end ... that's the big part of was what bunged up the EMOTIVA front end I tried ...
I gave up and got an EXTERNAL HDMI switch from Monoprice 4-in-1 out, for about $40 - and when the next version of HDMI is stable I may upgrade the switch ... but, that Yamaha receiver doesn't care, and I'm not riding the bleeding edge of the tech game ...

hjames

08-12-2010, 06:20 PM

Oh, I have another update on the HK AVR7300 receiver I-will-not-let-die thread.
As you recall, in the last episode, I paid $60 for an estimate from the local shop listed as the HK service center in my area.
A month later when I called to check up on it, they apologized and said the DSP part was unavailable - can't be fixed.

After reading Seawolf's comment, I fired off an email to support at Harmon.com, and also to harmanKardon.com and mentioned "my expensive receiver can't be fixed because the shop can't get the parts, but, by Federal Law, parts MUST be made available for 7 years ... and the receiver wasn't that old yet. How are you going to resolve this issue?"
After going back and forth 4 times for me to fill in details (I didn't expect free warrantee repairs, yes, I DID take it to the authorized HK service center, etc, etc), they apologized and somehow found a DSP chip somewhere! They are shipping it to my local shop, who called me yesterday and said estimate will be $250 labor for the repairs - didn't quote a parts price, but said they'd call me when the parts arrive ...

Receiver is still in my hand, awaiting further details ...
More news updates when it happens!

clmrt

08-12-2010, 10:34 PM

So, let's say it ends up being $350 all in to get the HK back.

Will you do it?

hjames

08-24-2010, 02:47 PM

So, let's say it ends up being $350 all in to get the HK back.

Will you do it?

Fortunately - I didn't have to make that decision - it won't be $350 ...

I have finally got further info on the repairs. The repair shop left me voicemail on my office phone after I left work Friday.
When I called back yesterday, they told me they've now received the replacement chip that Harman had sent,
so I can bring the receiver back for repairs now.

I mentioned I'd never actually gotten an estimate, just their info that the part was NLA - No Longer Available.
So, the gave me an estimate - the repairs will cost about $250, and they said the $60 deposit I already paid for
the initial estimate gets applied to that fee. So - it'll cost me about $200 more to get it fixed ...

I loaded the receiver into the truck last night and dropped it off today!

So - perhaps I should put an APC UPS on the powerline for the receiver?

hjames

10-24-2010, 02:22 PM

Ok, NEXT step down this path ...
Its been 2 months today since I dropped the receiver off the second time for repairs.
They had already had replacement parts shipped to them first, so it should have been painless.
2 weeks ago I called the shop and they said they haven't completed the repairs -
apparently they think its not the problem they initially diagnosed ...
At this stage, I have completely lost faith in their ability to repair my receiver.

I checked back with HK customer service and complain again (gently, but firm) insisted that at this point,
nearly 4 months since I first took it to their factory authorized service center for repairs and paid $60 for an estimate,
I still don't have my top of the line receiver back in usable condition, and explained this is completely unacceptable.

After dancing around with their customer service folks for quite a quite a while, we finally settled on a solution.
The local shop will release my receiver with no further fees, and I'll pack and ship the receiver to Harman Kardon
in Northridge for repair. I frankly wasn't going to trust the local service center any further.

Of course, the box and packing materials are long gone - so I bought 3 4x8 sheets of 1 inch thick pink building foam,
and tomorrow I'll make new packing and a carton, and take this monster to UPS to ship back to CA for repairs.

Again, wish me well for this!

Fortunately - I didn't have to make that decision - it won't be $350 ...

I have finally got further info on the repairs. The repair shop left me voicemail on my office phone after I left work Friday.
When I called back yesterday, they told me they've now received the replacement chip that Harman had sent,
so I can bring the receiver back for repairs now.

I mentioned I'd never actually gotten an estimate, just their info that the part was NLA - No Longer Available.
So, the gave me an estimate - the repairs will cost about $250, and they said the $60 deposit I already paid for
the initial estimate gets applied to that fee. So - it'll cost me about $200 more to get it fixed ...

I loaded the receiver into the truck last night and dropped it off today!

So - perhaps I should put an APC UPS on the powerline for the receiver?

hjames

10-25-2010, 12:23 PM

Okay, its DONE! I packed the AVR7300 in 2 inch foam all around (3 inch against the front panel), sealed it up, and dropped it off at the UPS store to go out tonight. Took a couple hours to pack it, and just a bit under $100 to ground ship it to Northridge insured for $500.
Darned thing is 73 lbs packed - what a monster to shuffle around ... gack!

4811748118

Titanium Dome

10-25-2010, 07:46 PM

Good luck!

allen mueller

10-26-2010, 01:59 AM

Just a tip for next time you ship, if you can't ship via a ups or FedEx account the next best thing for rates is go directly to either the ups or FedEx near hub where you live. You'll save allot over going to the UPS store.

Nice packing job btw.

AL

JBL 4645

10-26-2010, 09:57 AM

Yamaha seems to be working well, and the sound is good.

One of the Adcom 555s developed a faint hum, but ... turns out it's not from the speakers!
I traced it to specific chassis - a transformer is physically humming (annoying in quiet passages)!

So far, the only flaw is that its a bit awkward reading the Yam's display from the sofa,
and the remote is a bit creaky - but otherwise, it works fine!

Update on the Harman AVR 7300:

- I sent an email to Harman Support mentioned the repair shop I took it to found the problem,
but can't fix it because they couldn't get parts for it. Since US law says parts must be available for 7 years, why can't we get this fixed?

He says parts ARE available, but I must use THEIR authorized service centers to get them ...
I sent him a link back showing that I had used the HarmanKardon site to find a repair shop from their recommend centers list.
I took the AVR 7300 to them, and that the recommended shop says DSP is No Longer Available ...

The last email I sent back to him said:

"I paid a reasonable $60 for an estimate, and 30 days later he says he can't do the repair because parts for it aren't available.
But you say parts ARE available - so somebody isn't telling the truth!

Federal law says parts MUST be available, but the repair center YOU recommend can't get them.

How do we resolve this and move forward?"

If nothing comes of this, its time for phone tag ...

I can still get parts thou very rare and lucky for my Pioneer laserdisc players as Pioneer cessed making spares about a year or so ago, from what I read. The players cessed production early around 2000 just after the laserdisc plants had closed down that produced the laserdiscs themselves.

So if someone tells you parts aren’t available. Bull$hit is all I can say! Find a decent supplier that deals in these matters and I’m sure they’ll be able to get the parts in.

What I wanted was two little parts one rubber circle disc about 3mm and plastic disc about same size and the coast was £12.00! For two tiny parts!

If you like to email the UK semedis and ask them if they can’t track down international spare parts I know there in the UK put remember these parts are made in foreign counties so there must be part out there in warehouse.
http://www.semenedis.com/

And mind you, the parts I got are nearly 20 years old.

hjames

10-26-2010, 10:25 AM

I can still get parts thou very rare and lucky for my Pioneer laserdisc players as Pioneer ceased making spares about a year or so ago, from what I read. The players ceased production early around 2000 just after the laserdisc plants had closed down that produced the laserdiscs themselves.

So if someone tells you parts aren’t available. Bull$hit is all I can say! Find a decent supplier that deals in these matters and I’m sure they’ll be able to get the parts in.

You really do need to go back and read through the thread, and pay attention to who was saying what - the LOCAL shop is the AUTHORIZED HK Repair CENTER - THEY said Parts were No Longer Available (NLA).

When I contacted HARMAN KARDON Customer Service, they said parts WERE available, and provided the "NLA" parts to the LOCAL repair center.

Once the parts arrived locally I took my receiver BACK to the LOCAL HK Repair center.
After they had my receiver for an additional 2 months, they STILL couldn't fix my extremely complex AV Receiver.

After speaking nicely but firmly with HK Customer Service, and making arrangements with them, I got my receiver back from the LOCAL repair center, did all the packing you see below in the picture, and sent my receiver to HK In Northridge for THEM to repair it.

I don't need to go to the UK to buy parts - that was never REALLY an issue.
I think the LOCAL repair center was in over their head, or lost, or couldn't find the real problem or something ... and "parts No Longer Available" was their attempt to bail without losing face.

JBL 4645

10-26-2010, 10:40 AM

Heather

Its 9 pages long!

2 months and they couldn’t find what was up with it?

I have minor issue with my AVR its the relays placed at the back of the inside of the AVR they click rapidly (now and then).

I know its down to one thing! A dry joint and for that I need to undone the whole thing take the PCB out and look for pins that are lose on the underside where the relays are mounted to the PCB.

That would take me the whole day to fix! Not right now thou. I only fixed the other dry joints on it some 6 months ago. SIGH

I think your HK really needs to go to the place where it was (made from scratch!) it seems like the service department is waste of time, or have so many repairs on the plate they just got sidetracked and missed the fault?

I know its frustrating waiting 2 months :banghead: when it would have arrived at their service department within a day or two and most likely don’t get around to doing it for at least several days because they have other repairs on the work bench.

I bet if you went into there work shop, you’ll probably find maybe 3 or 4 guys at the most on work duty! The work shop I would imagine is flooded with items that need repairing. And I bet some are more than over 2 months!

I had to wait for JVC part to come from Japan for my Hi-Fi VCR some 20 years ago, it was in the work shop for some 3 months. And the cost was near to £200.00.

I’m willing to bet if there was good member here that lived win a few miles from you, willing to do the repair for six-pack! It may take a week or longer to repair but least you won’t have to grumble at the service costs!

hjames

10-26-2010, 02:50 PM

Heather

Its 9 pages long!

2 months and they couldn’t find what was up with it?

I think your HK really needs to go to the place where it was (made from scratch!) it seems like the service department is waste of time, or have so many repairs on the plate they just got sidetracked and missed the fault?

I had to wait for JVC part to come from Japan for my Hi-Fi VCR some 20 years ago, it was in the work shop for some 3 months. And the cost was near to £200.00.

I’m willing to bet if there was good member here that lived win a few miles from you, willing to do the repair for six-pack! It may take a week or longer to repair but least you won’t have to grumble at the service costs!

and 20 years ago your VCR was probably an aging but pricey piece of kit ...

But I can tell you are clueless about good beer, and certainly clueless about these repairs.
I don't think someone is going to trace a digital stream lost between modular boards in such a complex receiver
for $20 worth of good beer - and any less would be a HUGE insult to any tech worthy of the repair.

Emma's guess is that the LOCAL repair center was using the shotgun technique of repair -
swap in and out whole modules until the problem stops ... but with a $2400 receiver,
the local center probably didn't have many of those replacement boards in stock.

Its already gone back to Harman's home office - not much more I can do at this point.

JBL 4645

10-26-2010, 04:57 PM

Well least I'm not clueless about cream soda.:p

Well keep casing them up each day or every few days on its progress. After all its your AVR and you are footing the bill at the end.

I hope you get it sorted and up and running like it was when brand new.

hjames

12-05-2010, 08:17 AM

Rumour has it the Harman Kardon AVR-7300 has finally been shipped back to me after repairs!
I'll pull the Yamaha AVR and put the HK in place for a while - but since we just got the OPPO BDP-93,
and Blu-ray is more fussy about HDMI issues than the old OPPO was,
seems like it's time to get an AVR that does HDMI internally, and properly ...

Maybe the Marantz SR5005, maybe an Integra

Hopefully I can sell the freshly rebuilt AVR-7300 for reasonable money when its time buy something newer.

SEAWOLF97

12-05-2010, 11:22 AM

I have no practical experience, but many around here seem to be tracking down Integra AV gear....higher end Onkyo ?

I'm on the mailing list for the ShopONKYO folks, tho from what I've read here and other places,
it sounds like Integra is a better path to take.

glad somebody is listening...will be happy to follow your progress if that is the chosen path

but many around here

to be clear...HERE meant here, my physical loc, not the forum.

hjames

12-10-2010, 03:07 PM

AVR7300 is back from Harman - was packed well and looks good.

Unhooked all the cables and pulled the Yamaha receiver.
Then lifted that 70 lb HK Monster and put it up in the rack.
Did not connect anything, no power, just let it adjust to room temp (its 30 degrees F outside today) and took Emma to lunch.

Came back and hooked up the coax DVD in, optic cables, RCA connectors and all the Speaker leads.
Double checked everything, then hooked up the power cable.
Spun the rack, hit the main power button, then toggled the standby switch ...
Nothing.

Wrote my guy at Harman, he sent me an idea for cycling power slowly, tried it, no change.

Just went down, checked all my cables, all looks great.
Tried it again - Nothing.

Got to go out soon, but I DO want to watch TV/movies when I get back,
so I had to pull the HK and put the Yamaha back into place,
then reconnect all the cables again ... and make sure at least THAT is working.

You don't EVEN want to know my mood ... !

Fricken fracken frellin' Harman Kardon gear ... GRRRR!!

Rumour has it the Harman Kardon AVR-7300 has finally been shipped back to me after repairs!
I'll pull the Yamaha AVR and put the HK in place for a while - but since we just got the OPPO BDP-93,
and Blu-ray is more fussy about HDMI issues than the old OPPO was,
seems like it's time to get an AVR that does HDMI internally, and properly ...

Maybe the Marantz SR5005, maybe an Integra

Hopefully I can sell the freshly rebuilt AVR-7300 for reasonable money when its time buy something newer.

hjames

12-16-2010, 04:03 AM

Okay - an update ... Guy at Harman CS asked me to pop the Cover on the doa-from-repairs Harman Kardon AVR-7300 and see if I could see anything wrong, loose connector or cable, unseated daughterboard, anything like that which might have occurred in the cross country shipping, since he says it ran great for 2 full days on his bench after he fixed it before he returned it to me. Okay, I'm game - but I waited until I had a few hours to play before getting into this ...

So, Emma went out for a few hours last night, wasn't going to be watching TV, and I had a chance to put the big receiver on the coffee table and look it over.
Pulled nearly a dozen screws from the sides and back and lifter off the cover.

Its a pretty beefy design in there - HUGE torroidal transformer, massive power supply caps right next to it, huge heat sinks on either side - I mean, its 7x 110w/ch - and it IS 70lbs of gear! And - low and behold - on the right side is some kind of ribbon cable that is obviously loose and not seated in the edge connector right below it ...ah HA! I pushed it back into the connector, made sure it was fully seated, and looked for other flaws, but, that seemed to be it.

So, I set the lid on top, plugged it in, opened the front cover, pushed the MAIN power button, waited a minute, then pushed the standby/on switch .... it freaking turned on! Display lights all seemed fine. Powered it on and off a few times, looks stable. Okay, lets go for broke! Pulled power, put all the screws back in and closed it all up

So, now I pulled the teak audio rack out, removed the back cover, pulled all the wires off the Yamaha yet again, and got out of the way, off the shelf.
Set the Harman back on the rack - OOFF - Its a Freaking HEAVY BEAST!

I went to the basement and got the Carver C1 - need that for the Turntable amp as, unlike the Yamaha, the HK doesn't have a TT input(!) Put it on the lower shelf, wired its output to the HK with another of the Seawolf stereo audio cables, and plug my Denon TT into the carver. I connect all the other sources, the 8 direct cables from the new OPPO BDP-93 to the HK for SACDs, Coaxial line for DVD audio and all of that, connect the TIVHD and AppleTV and make notes of what is plugged in where, spun the rack around, hit power, and wait a few moments ...

I've got TV adio from the TIVOHD! 20 seconds later the Adcom power relays kick and the big adcoms come on for the mains (biAmp Fronts). Seems like its working again!!

Spent the next hour eating dinner and going through all the HK config screens setting everything back up, typing in titles for the sources, and checking things out ...

Put Pekka's Mathmetician's Air Display on the Denon turntable ... power on the Carver, pick source and turn up the level ... its an old record from the late 70s, but sounds nice.

Tossed in an HDCD - Harman's HDCD Icon comes on and it plays, toss in "Dire Straights Brothers in Arms Anniversary SACD" - NO AUDIO ... until I remember to hit the 6/8 Direct source button ... Nice, 5.1 surround!

Toss in "T-2 Deluxe edition" ... DTS-ES Matrix icon comes on looks nice, good sounds ...

Now try Blu-Ray Master and Commander - skip to one of the battle scenes - Russel Crow looking into the fog and spies flashes - BOOM BOOM ... amazing stuff ...

Wow - sounds like that's got it! Even without HDMI and using external switching, it
really is a great sounding receiver with plenty of power for the surrounds and all of that,
and between it and the OPPO, DVDs look very good ...

Hopefully it will continue to work for a few years ... 'cause if it goes again now ... !!!

48994

Don C

12-16-2010, 08:21 AM

hjames

12-16-2010, 02:27 PM

Wow, I'm stunned. A Harman customer service rep reccomending that a consumer remove the cover from one of their components? The potential liability far outweighs any possible benefit to the corporation. Maybe you're a qualified tech who knows how to service equipment safely, but how would the Harman guy know that? I'm glad you had a good outcome though.
Well, i did tell him I had some electronics knowledge and used to sweep and rebuild microwave transmitters, tho it had been nearly 20 years back, and mostly all I do these days is solder up XLR and banana plugs (grin) ... but I really did have a "first phone", before Reagan did away with that licensing ...

The best thing is its working again, and its working good, even with the pre-release OPPO BluRay disc player (BDP-93)

Mr. Widget

12-16-2010, 04:32 PM

The best thing is its working again, and its working good, even with the pre-release OPPO BluRay disc player (BDP-93)That is excellent news!

Widget

4313B

12-16-2010, 05:46 PM

it really is a great sounding receiver with plenty of power for the surrounds and all of thatYes, the 7000, 7200 and 7300 were all very nice sounding units.
Hopefully it will continue to work for a few years ... 'cause if it goes again now ... !!!Yep, it's a real shame that they are too complex and too fragile. I've gone through several of them. While they work they are excellent.

Wow, I'm stunned. A Harman customer service rep reccomending that a consumer remove the cover from one of their components? The potential liability far outweighs any possible benefit to the corporation. I'm not real sure that they care about such things...

hjames

03-06-2011, 05:51 PM

Wacky fun returns to that darned Harman Kardon AVR 7300!

Friday night we were watching TV, Emma got a phone call and I paused the TIVOHD.
A few moment later I thought I heard a motor running - I couldn't place it at first,
then noticed the audio was at +9 - LOUD1. (that's stupid loud - I usually listen at -20 or less).
The only reason I didn't notice right away is that with the TIVO paused, there was no real audio ...
what I heard was the noise floor with the receiver WIDE OPEN!
Anyway, I shut the system off and we went to bed ...

We had other stuff to do all day Saturday until Saturday night, we sat down to watch Anton Corbijn's Ian Curtis film, Control
... about an hour or so in, the volume started rising by itself! I didn't catch it at first, but out of the corner of my eye I
noticed the AVR's display panel was flipping between Audio mode and level, and I saw the level rising in jumps of 3 or 5 -
it got real loud real fast. I muted it, then it jumped out of mute and raised a couple levels again and got REAL LOUD.
Fearing for my drivers, I jumped for the HK remote and powered it down REAL FAST.

On a hunch, I put my hand on top of it - it's 7 channels of 110w/ch, so I expected some heat ...
it was warm, but not painfully so ... so it didn't feel like it was overheating.

Sunday evening, after running around all day, we tried to watch the end of the movie.
Everything played fine for - maybe an hour, we finished the movie, but while we were watching
the special features (Joy Division videos and such) it started raising the volume by itself again!
So, again, we powered it down until I get a chance to put that darned Yamaha AVR back in the rack
AND THROW THE $#I7 HARMAN AWAY!

Frick fracking fragile Harman garbage - I'm gonna go buy a DENON or Integra or ANYTHING ELSE!

NOT RECOMMENDED!

clmrt

03-07-2011, 06:46 AM

Do like Dome - Outlaw 990!

4313B

03-07-2011, 08:10 AM

Frick fracking fragile Harman garbage - I'm gonna go buy a DENON or Integra or ANYTHING ELSE!The trick is to find something that sounds as good as the H/K that isn't made by Harman. :rotfl:

That volume issue plagues alot of H/K models. Sorry about your woes. I've been through several of the damn things myself.

hjames

03-07-2011, 08:11 AM

Do like Dome - Outlaw 990!

Thanks for the heads up, but ...

Ooopps - B-Stocks Now Sold Out
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/990.html

That's no fun!
mebbe someone else?

The trick is to find something that sounds as good as the H/K that isn't made by Harman. :rotfl:

That volume issue plagues alot of H/K models. Sorry about your woes. I've been through several of the damn things myself.

Yes, I agree - WHEN IT WORKED, it sounded and worked very nice ...
we were VERY HAPPY with it, its spouse friendly, what's not to like?

But now she's afraid to watch TV 'cause she's afraid it will go into runaway mode
and blow up our speakers and thats not a winning approach.

Hell, last night watching the movie I had the remote in my hand and my finger on the Power Off button.
That's no way to relax!

Surely something is made reliable AND sounds good? .

BMWCCA

03-07-2011, 07:04 PM

hjames

03-07-2011, 07:13 PM

I bought a Harman DVD player to use as my CD player. It was a new unit in their "re-furb" catalog on Ebay a few years back. Paid a pittance and it sounded great. But then it started not turning on and I had to un-plug and re-plug it to get it to do anything. Then it stopped doing anything. A quick Google of the model number found I was not alone. Cripes! A common and ubiquitous failure of simple components . . . over and over again.

And at one time I was considering a close-out deal on their "universal" BD player. No way now!

I think I'm done with Harman, too, and it cost me quite a bit less to figure that out than it did Heather. Sorry!

My HK 5 disc player is noisy but still working.
The AVR - well - when it worked, it really did work well ... but after the first year its been in this 90 days and fail mode - and thats not acceptable ...

But the huge toroid in the case could be the start of a sweet power amp for someone!
Just trash the lousy Harman electronics :banghead:

MikeBrewster77

03-07-2011, 07:27 PM

My HK 5 disc player is noisy but still working.

You're lucky -- I burned through two of these in a row in in the early 2000's. Each one just out-lasted the warranty. I finally gave up, and that's when I bought the Denon I've had for several years.

Although twice bitten (but apparently not thrice shy) I recently purchased the HD 990 -- which is a phenomenal sounding player. Nonetheless, it has frozen on me at least a handful of times while changing tracks. The only remedy is to power cycle it, much like a PC ... hold the power button for a few seconds and eventually it simply shuts down.

Great sounding products ............ when they work.

hjames

03-07-2011, 07:50 PM

Titanium Dome

03-07-2011, 10:44 PM

Well - there is another tack I can take ... seems like prices are getting more affordable for the JBL AV2 pre-processor.

I've got enough Adcom Amps to use now, and a friend told me Saturday he wants to sell his Adcoms so he can get a Mark Levinson amp ...

I can get a tuner later if I need one, but - the real question is -
will the AV2 play well with my mixed stack of vintage speakers
(4341 mains, Lc2CH center, B380sub, L100T side surrounds, L20T rears)

Ideas? Comments?

Well, I've had one in my Synthesis® One Array for over a year now. Fingers crossed, it's been a stellar performer. It's a Lexicon MV-5 in black clothing with a BassQ option that the Lex doesn't have. Of course, the Lexicon was a modification of an HK 745 receiver (which was a cheaper variant of the Lexicoan RV-5) without the amp and completely different case and display and rear panel layout, etc. Still, it's a beefed up HK at heart.

I recently got a second AV-2 with iPod dock at an insanely low price, and it now controls my Performance Series 5.1 set up. It's so much better than the Synthesis® SDP-5 (Lexicon MC-8) that it replaced, that I have no regrets whatsoever. It's more flexible, has more surround options, has HDMI, has iPod and USB connections, and it's quieter. Discernibly quieter. Better remote, too, as well as a mic and stand for calibration.

Still, if you get one and it dies one day after warranty, then it's on you. After all, I did say it's an HK at heart.

hjames

03-08-2011, 06:04 AM

Very cool thanks for ALL the info you have shared. Sounds like a great option!

One Question - do you watch any off-air, Sat, or Cable TV through that system?

I'd wonder what about multichannel TV shows - what does the decode?
Most are stereo, but a few are in 5.1 sound. We're currently using a TIVOHD as a TV tuner - it outputs Dolby Digital or PCM ...

I think we can live with the AV2 outputting 1080i instead of 1080p - or I could run the OPPO BDP-93 HDMI direct to the TV as 1080p and run the rest in 1080i from the AV2 to a second HDMI port on the TV.

I can always get a tuner cheap if we just HAVE to have FM in the system ... with all the good music stations gone these days, its less important than it was 25 years ago ...

Well, I've had one in my Synthesis® One Array for over a year now. Fingers crossed, it's been a stellar performer. It's a Lexicon MV-5 in black clothing with a BassQ option that the Lex doesn't have. Of course, the Lexicon was a modification of an HK 745 receiver (which was a cheaper variant of the Lexicoan RV-5) without the amp and completely different case and display and rear panel layout, etc. Still, it's a beefed up HK at heart.

I recently got a second AV-2 with iPod dock at an insanely low price, and it now controls my Performance Series 5.1 set up. It's so much better than the Synthesis® SDP-5 (Lexicon MC-8) that it replaced, that I have no regrets whatsoever. It's more flexible, has more surround options, has HDMI, has iPod and USB connections, and it's quieter. Discernibly quieter. Better remote, too, as well as a mic and stand for calibration.

Still, if you get one and it dies one day after warranty, then it's on you. After all, I did say it's an HK at heart.

4313B

03-08-2011, 07:39 AM

Each one just out-lasted the warranty.Isn't it clever how that works?
Great sounding products ............ when they work.Harman has always managed to have a lemon model or two in the lineup. This isn't a new concept for them.

Titanium Dome

03-08-2011, 08:59 AM

One Question - do you watch any off-air, Sat, or Cable TV through that system?

I'd wonder what about multichannel TV shows - what does the decode?
Most are stereo, but a few are in 5.1 sound. We're currently using a TIVOHD as a TV tuner - it outputs Dolby Digital or PCM ...

.

We don't watch much TV, maybe one or two shows a week: ice skating, awards show, maybe an episode of Glee if there's a guest we want to see like tonight. That will change when her favorite show Dancing With The Stars starts up. We always watch that down in the Two Jims Theatre. It's a ritual by now, I guess.

We've never had cable or sat, since we're not big TV watchers, so the system is fed by an antenna and a Samsung HDTV OTA unit. The Samsung goes component out direct to the projector and digital coax cable to the AV-2. The AV-2 will decode a Dolby 5.1 signal no problem, and I normally have it set to Logic7 TV to get the rears involved for 7.1.

Since we've been to the live show, I can tell you, the in house experience is a pretty good facsimile. In fact the experience is much better at home than in the studio for a number of reasons.

Since most HD TV is 720P anyway, you might find the AV-2 is a great companion as a video processor as well, but my Samsung box and projector are both in the back of the room, so I see no upside to running a 16 ft. cable to the AV-2 and a 20 ft. cable back to the PJ when a single 6 ft. cable will do the job.

hjames

03-14-2011, 06:38 PM

After all the dances, and missing a closeout deal on the JBL AV-2 (probably wasn't for me), I'm currently looking for a solid Integra DTC-9.8 processor ... from what I've read they are quite solid, and I can use various amps I already have to run my speakers ... seems like a good replacement front end for my system. Don't know what to do with the Harman - bounce it into a dumpster, prolly!

Only two years old and now landfill? That is not good. This is one example of how our accounting system lets us down... manufacturers should have to take back their old junk and fix it or properly recycle it. I suppose the bean counter/market mentality types would say that the market does correct itself by the fact that people like yourself won't buy another HK AVR... and to some extent that does work, but in the mean time you are out an AVR and Harman squandered the natural resources used to create and ship that item... we can't continue building and selling disposable products with our precious resources.

I know that many on this forum use HK AVRs, I am not sure if they do so out of loyalty to Harman or if it is due to the fact that HK products are typically being offered at very, very low prices.

We sell Integra, do they sound better? I doubt it... do they cost a bit more, usually. The main reason we sell them is because they come with a three year warranty... everybody's stuff breaks, but being able to get them fixed under warranty for a year longer than most other brands at the same relative cost is a big deal. Especially since most products that have a weak link will fail within that three year window. Ever wonder why most cheap electronics have a one year warranty?

Widget

svollmer

03-15-2011, 04:16 AM

I've got enough Adcom Amps to use now, and a friend told me Saturday he wants to sell his Adcoms so he can get a Mark Levinson amp ...

I've heard through the grapevine the your "friend" even provides home delivery!!! :)

4313B

03-15-2011, 06:13 AM

Don't know what to do with the Harman - bounce it into a dumpster, prolly!Yeah, I don't know what we're supposed to do with all these boat anchors. There aren't enough boats for them. There should be a recycle center for them. Maybe I'll fire off an email to Harman today asking them what we're supposed to do with all our non-functional gear. They really should take it back and recycle it.

hjames

03-15-2011, 07:42 AM

Yeah, I don't know what we're supposed to do with all these boat anchors. There aren't enough boats for them. There should be a recycle center for them. Maybe I'll fire off an email to Harman today asking them what we're supposed to do with all our non-functional gear. They really should take it back and recycle it.
I wrote the harman rep that worked with me for last year problems that it had failed again ... well, I wasn't going to leave it connected to my good speakers with that runaway volume problem! Anyway, I told him I wasn't putting another dime into Harman gear - and that includes paying good money to ship that monster anywhere!

(Of the 3 HK AVR receivers I had recently, 2 were lemons ... not a good percentage)

There's that line from Einstein -
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ...

4313B

03-15-2011, 07:46 AM

There's that line from Einstein -
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results ...We install SafeBoot over and over and always end up with different results... :blink:

:rotfl: :applaud: :rotfl:

At least I'm still able to provide myself with a good laugh in between all the tears. :o: :barf:

BMWCCA

03-15-2011, 11:30 AM

Yeah, I don't know what we're supposed to do with all these boat anchors. There aren't enough boats for them. There should be a recycle center for them. Maybe I'll fire off an email to Harman today asking them what we're supposed to do with all our non-functional gear. They really should take it back and recycle it.I took a TV to Best Buy recently for recycling. They charged me $10 then gave me a $10 gift card in return. Looks like small stuff is just free.

You can look on their website for regulations by state. For Virginia they take:

Three items per household per day.
Nearly everything electronic, including tube TVs and monitors up to 32", flat-panel TVs and monitors up to 60", peripherals, DVD players, home and car audio, cell phones, MP3 players, and cables.
Desktop or laptop computers.
Small electrics, fans and vacuums.
We charge $10 for televisions and monitors, but you immediately receive a $10 Best Buy gift card good toward future purchase.
$10 fee does not apply to any Insignia®, Dynex® or VPR Matrix® products. Best Buy accepts these brands free of any charge.

hjames

03-16-2011, 03:00 AM

Looks like the Integra DTC-9.8 is going to happen!!
Now its up to Fed Ex to come through ...
and me getting time to rerack everything!
But I plan to pull everything out of the old SCAN Teak rack soon.

Tho I just need a single wide shelf where my DVD cabinet is now,
I do plan to build an Altar of Audiophilia like my friend Steve did ...
His is simply gorgeous!

50470

4313B

03-16-2011, 05:38 AM

Altar of Audiophilia:rotfl:

Looks like the Integra DTC-9.8 is going to happen!!
I'm glad you found a solution.

Titanium Dome

03-16-2011, 05:48 AM

Is that a Bel Canto I see on the right top?

Looks like the Integra DTC-9.8 is going to happen!!
Now its up to Fed Ex to come through ...
and me getting time to rerack everything!
But I plan to pull everything out of the old SCAN Teak rack soon.

Tho I just need a single wide shelf where my DVD cabinet is now,
I do plan to build an Altar of Audiophilia like my friend Steve did ...
His is simply gorgeous!

50470

hjames

03-16-2011, 06:22 AM

Is that a Bel Canto I see on the right top?

Maybe - I'm not sure about his CD player - but its all very nice electronics!

He has Legacy speaker - he has many of them in matched models around the room
(other than the pair of homebuilt 2245 subs in the corner ...).
They sound very nice with all his other gear!

http://www.legacyaudio.com/

50473

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=48567&stc=1&d=1289876609

4313B

03-16-2011, 07:25 AM

Is that a Bel Canto I see on the right top?It sure looks like one but I thought all their gear was kind of half-width? (I haven't delved).

opimax

03-16-2011, 07:45 AM

yes

hjames

03-16-2011, 07:49 AM

yes

que?

50477
Manuel of Fawlty Towers

Titanium Dome

03-16-2011, 11:08 AM

que?

Sí.

clmrt

03-16-2011, 11:13 AM

Ha:applaud:

Hoerninger

03-16-2011, 11:19 AM

jo (na klar doch).

Mr. Widget

03-16-2011, 11:32 AM

Looks like the Integra DTC-9.8 is going to happen!! Cool... I have one and enjoy it with movies. They are a bit slow when changing sources and are not perfect, we have had a couple fail, but then we have sold quite a few. The failures were quickly repaired and no follow up issues... these are not like your Harman AVR. Over all I think they are a very nice bang for the buck, yeah, I know they weren't cheap, but a couple of grand is far less than many of their competitors.

If yours doesn't come with the Audyssey mic that was originally supplied with the unit, let me know and I will get you one. I can also give you pointers on getting the most from the Audyssey calibration. This model will support a dealer calibration, but you have to buy a license key through a local dealer and they have to come out and do the calibration. We charge $500 for the key and service call... in some systems it is really a day and night improvement, and others it is far more subtle.

Widget

hjames

03-16-2011, 01:28 PM

Cool... I have one and enjoy it with movies. They are a bit slow when changing sources and are not perfect, we have had a couple fail, but then we have sold quite a few. The failures were quickly repaired and no follow up issues... these are not like your Harman AVR. Over all I think they are a very nice bang for the buck, yeah, I know they weren't cheap, but a couple of grand is far less than many of their competitors.

Widget

Thank you! From what I could find it did seems like the best thing in that kind of price range (a bit under a grand).
Seems to have a lot of love, and should play well with the Oppo.

Anyway, I just paid for it, so it should be here mid-next-week, with any luck.

I just got the L100T to T3 upgraded crossovers back from Duanage, so I want to get them back into cabinets and back into the system before I got much further - plus I need to gather my standalone amps (and maybe shuffle my cabinets) before the DTC-9.8 gets here ...

svollmer

03-16-2011, 02:41 PM

It sure looks like one but I thought all their gear was kind of half-width? (I haven't delved).

Yes, it's a Bel-Canto CD-1. I don't know if this is true, but I was told they made a bunch of these just before deciding to go to 1/2 width components. So, it was their last full-width CD player. They blew them all out at a huge discount without ever officially releasing them. I've been very happy with it for about 3 years. My wife really loves it too! :)

And Heather; thanks for all the kind words!

hjames

03-24-2011, 07:55 PM

Integra DTC-9.8 arrived today.

Setup seems remarkably easy and straight-forward, tho there are a lot of possible settings and screens. I did a basic config and popped in a DVD - listened to Leonard Cohen - Songs From The Road. Sounded great and looked great. Watched some TV, again, quite nice sound and video. I probably have some work to do to get the best configuration for the OPPO and the Integra, but its already miles beyond the ding-dang Harman AVR.
Ran out of time and have to head to bed but I'll pop in some Blu-rays tomorrow and see how they work, then try some CDs, SACDs and vinyl - yes, this modern pre-Pro actually has a phono input! Amazing!

Currently running with the Biamped mains on a pair of Adcom GFA-555s, and an Adcom GFA-2535 in 3 ch mode - sides (2x60w/ch) and center channel (1x120w/ch), and the HK Citation 22 for the B380 Sub (1x500w/ch) ... I'm hoping to get another Adcom 2 ch amp for the L100T3s - but I can run in 5.1 mode for a while at least.

Mr. Widget

03-24-2011, 10:50 PM

I probably have some work to do to get the best configuration for the OPPO and the Integra, but its already miles beyond the ding-dang Harman AVR.Very cool! Congratulations... I have used mine for quite some time now and find it a very respectable HT processor. The 9.8 is very flexible with lots of assignable inputs, excellent video processing, and a solid and reliable build.

...yes, this modern pre-Pro actually has a phono input! Amazing!Not to rain on your parade, but the phono section is pretty weak. I really wouldn't plan on much two-channel action either... if you have an analog only system in your home, it will very likely be quite a bit better sounding for CDs and any other 2 channel source.

Widget

hjames

03-25-2011, 04:16 AM

Very cool! Congratulations... I have used mine for quite some time now and find it a very respectable HT processor. The 9.8 is very flexible with lots of assignable inputs, excellent video processing, and a solid and reliable build.

Not to rain on your parade, but the phono section is pretty weak. I really wouldn't plan on much two-channel action either... if you have an analog only system in your home, it will very likely be quite a bit better sounding for CDs and any other 2 channel source.

Widget

I'm not a huge vinyl buff - probably have less than 400 records, but thanks. Maybe I'll move the Denon TT upstairs to the Carver 6250 receiver with the L200+ 3-ways

hjames

03-26-2011, 01:35 PM

I'm glad you found a solution.

The one idea that keep running through my head - that AVR-7300 is 7ch at 130w/ch!
I wish there was some way to bypass all the unreliable digital processing preamp stage, and just turn this puppy into a 7 channel power amp. Feed it with someone else's solid pre-pro and use the Harman for a power amp! That'd certainly keep this thing out of the landfill

grumpy

03-26-2011, 01:50 PM

8-ch direct :) (p34)

set the volume control and off you go.

hjames

03-26-2011, 03:06 PM

8-ch direct :) (p34)

set the volume control and off you go.

If you mean the Harman, right now it has a volume control error - after its been running a while it auto-raises the volume levels to full ... +9 or so ...
Scared the hell out of us twice, before I pulled it out of the system and tossed it to the basement!
Anyway wide freaking open is way too loud for my speakers!
So, I put the yamaha back in for a bit, until the Integra DTC-9.8 arrived late Thursday.

So,
if I could just cut past the digital junk in the HK AVR-7300, PHYSICALLY bypass the preamp stage and wire directly to the power amp stages
... THAT would be a nice thing!

grumpy

03-26-2011, 04:54 PM

Oh yeah... forgot about that.

Direct 8-ch mode is -supposed- to bypass the A/D/A process, but if the volume
control is wonky that's no good... being stuck on max isn't that bad a thing, but
if the built-in pre is adding gain to the input signal before amp, that's mode would
probably be too hot to just use as a general purpose amp.

sigh.

I'm guessing you have more than enough skills to 'fix' this (essentially gut it except
for the amps and wire the inputs directly to the amps), but like most of us, have
better things to do. Project for a high school electronics wiz who'd love to 'recycle' it.

hjames

03-27-2011, 04:38 PM

Integra DTC-9.8 arrived today.

Currently running with the Biamped mains on a pair of Adcom GFA-555s, and an Adcom GFA-2535 in 3 ch mode - sides (2x60w/ch) and center channel (1x120w/ch), and the HK Citation 22 for the B380 Sub (1x500w/ch) ... I'm hoping to get another Adcom 2 ch amp for the L100T3s - but I can run in 5.1 mode for a while at least.

I did some shuffling around - nearly forgot I had a Yamaha M-50 amp laying around - so I swung RCA cables and speaker wires around and now have it running the Sides for the L100T3s ... and put the 60w/ch pair in the Adcom 2535 on the L20Ts in the rear of the room ...
'Course I don't have many 7. sources, but it does work nice in 5.1 mode.

I did try the Audyssey auto setup, but for some reason it fails on the B380 sub and HK Citation 22.
On a hunch, I tried flipping polarity on the Sub speaker leads but it failed again ...
I'll fuss with it another day, but it does sound nice on the movies we've tried it with!

hjames

04-01-2011, 01:45 PM

Been too busy working configs to actually post an updated picture. Still need to gt the HK AVR out of here - but just ignore it for now!

Got a second Adcom ACE-515 from eBay.
Got an Adcom GFA-545 on the way, and rack mount ears from Adcom coming too.
That'll go in the rack on my left speaker to run the high split, and I'll pull one of the GFA-555's down to replace the Yamaha M-50 for the L100T3s.
frankly, there's nothing wrong with the Yamaha - but having all Adcoms of that early era will keep the tonality the same.

I have a short extension cord on the switched outlet of the Integra - and the "Sense" cables for the the two ACE switch units look at that. Power on the Integra and all the amps come in in timed progression (Except the Citation 22 for the Sub - manual is fine for that monster!). The units on the right "table" are an Adcom GFA-2535 in 3 ch mode for the center and rear speakers, and the (temp) Yamaha M-50 for the L100T(3)s ...

Seems to be working well, tho I do want to build a better space to spread out the amps ...

Oh - I did move the IKEA Bonde cabinet full of DVDs out of the room -
that gave me some room to move the 4341s a bit rotate them out of the corners ...
Even more room once the tall Teak audio rack from SCAN goes away -
after I build the Altar of Audiophilia to spread all the amp and electronics swag upon ...

Hoping to get rid of the leather sofa on the left by the window that blocks that monitor - these things take time!

50701

hjames

04-02-2011, 01:53 PM

Basic Image of amp switching functions using a pair of Adcom ACE-515 Power Conditioners.

The units also have controlled power up/Power down cycles when they see power "change state" through the sensing cables. because the "Sense cables" don't actually draw any current, they just see if power is on or off, I tried and discovered I could plug 2 of them into an extension cord plugged into the Switched Outlet on the back of the Integra Preamp/Processor.

That makes the whole system very user friendly for my spouse, Emma.

Using the Integra remote to power on the pre-pro and the ACE units hold the power amps off for 20 seconds while all the accessory gear powers up, so no annoying power amp THUMPS on start-up, or on power down.

I do not have the Citation 22 used as a Subwoofer amp connected to all of this - it gets powered on by hand and is only use for movies and such - not music or daytime TV/News shows.
50727

opimax

04-02-2011, 02:45 PM

Fred Sanford

04-03-2011, 04:24 PM

hjames

04-03-2011, 05:08 PM

So, the Niles AC-3 is superfluous after all? Where did I get the idea that the Integra had no switched outlet?

Also, do the two ACE-515s draw the amp power from two separate circuits, or does all of this happily live on a single 15 amp circuit?

je

I was originally convinced that the Integra had no switched outlet - but when it arrived I was surprised to see one.
So I didn't need a 12v wallywart to run the Niles, and when I tried without it - everything just worked.

The Citation 22 is running on a separate breaker/circuit, the rest are on a common 20Amp line ...
but, of course, its drawing less than when we had the HDTV CRT on that circuit (instead of the frugal Vizio)!

Fred Sanford

04-04-2011, 07:33 AM

I was originally convinced that the Integra had no switched outlet - but when it arrived I was surprised to see one.
So I didn't need a 12v wallywart to run the Niles, and when I tried without it - everything just worked.

The Citation 22 is running on a separate breaker/circuit, the rest are on a common 20Amp line ...
but, of course, its drawing less than when we had the HDTV CRT on that circuit (instead of the frugal Vizio)!

Hmmm...now we need to think up something clever to use the AC-3 for...:dont-know:

Glad it's all working out, can't wait to hear it some day.

je

opimax

04-04-2011, 10:10 AM

I am feeling ignored :)

hjames

04-04-2011, 01:09 PM

Setting up spouse friendly is a problem I have too. I have used it to my advantage, she stays away from my stuff, lol.

She does have her own :)

What is protecting the Integra?

Mark

PS I am looking for 1 ace-515 for 1 of my setups

I don't have a UPS on the Integra, if that's what you mean.
maybe it should go into the Always-On outlet of the ACE-515 ...

but for the immediate future, the idea is to build a shelf like Steve
and get stuff OUT of the fancy SCAN Teak rack, not put more INTO it ...

Once the Altar of Audiophilia™ is built, I can pull the Integra from the tall rack
and have it on the top shelf under the TV, next to the ACE and do that, just not right now ...

I am feeling ignored :)

Oh, I bid my way through a number of ACE-515s on ebay until I got one for about $75 ...
they should go cheaper, but I wanted one now and not next month ...

But Emma loves the friendliness of the system now, especially with HDMI switching built right into the preamp!

Power up the TV, then power up the Integra and everything else comes on in 20 seconds with it!

But my work isn't done - I haven't hooked up the WII to the new system yet ...!

opimax

04-04-2011, 08:04 PM

thank you :D I was concerned for the Integra

Mark

BMWCCA

04-10-2011, 07:18 PM

Oh, I bid my way through a number of ACE-515s on ebay until I got one for about $75 ...
they should go cheaper, but I wanted one now and not next month ...

But Emma loves the friendliness of the system now, especially with HDMI switching built right into the preamp!

Power up the TV, then power up the Integra and everything else comes on in 20 seconds with it.

I took your lead and picked up an ACE-515 tonight. I'd been watching them for a couple of weeks. My buddy with the local SR company has two of them in his Adcom home system, has had them for years and speaks highly of them. Going price on The Bay this weekend appears to be $51-56. Everyone must have been watching the finish of the Masters or something. :dont-know:

Thanks for the suggestion. I was going to swap-in the Crown PS amps for the two D-series in my bi-amp 4345 setup to gain their turn-on delay but I think I'll just use the Adcom power sequencer instead. The DC300A-II and the D150A-II with the Ashly XR1001 sound just super to me as they are.

opimax

04-11-2011, 03:24 AM

you must have outr bid me while I was traveling!!! congrats! :)

Mark

BMWCCA

04-11-2011, 04:51 PM

you must have out-bid me while I was traveling!!! congrats! :)I actually was aiming for the more expensive of the two. The original-owner's-manual description appealed to me and made be believe it must have been well-cared-for. And its shipping was cheaper!

I set my bid service at $75 and took my wife and a nice bottle of local wine over to my brother-in-law's front porch to share the evening with him and his new fiancé. We came home a couple of hours later to the pleasant $56 surprise. :applaud:

HCSGuy

04-13-2011, 01:15 PM

FWIW, we recycled all the ACE-515's that we had laying around from old jobs, as we were told by Adcom the surge protection varistors had probably degraded from use and they could not guarantee any level of protection. So, use it as a turn on relay, but plug it into a newer surge protector if you're worried about your equipment...

hjames

04-13-2011, 03:39 PM

BMWCCA

04-13-2011, 06:12 PM

Good point. I got mine for the power up/down delay feature - and it does that very well!

Me, too. Still waiting for it to arrive. I've never run protection for anything. Probably why the caps on the Harman/Kardon DVD/CD player bloated. If so, oddly enough nothing else had a problem.

Just "won" the appropriate NOS Adcom rack ears off The Bay today in an uncontested opening-bid of $15.99, including shipping. :dont-know:

hjames

04-13-2011, 06:32 PM

Me, too. Still waiting for it to arrive. I've never run protection for anything. Probably why the caps on the Harman/Kardon DVD/CD player bloated. If so, oddly enough nothing else had a problem.

Just "won" the appropriate NOS Adcom rack ears off The Bay today in an uncontested opening-bid of $15.99, including shipping. :dont-know:

Not sure when your DVD player was made - but there is a well know period of Asian gear when bootleg caps (yes, really) were in the market. Its one reason the mac G5 was such a problem ... and a lot of gear of that era has problems due to the expanding/failing caps problem.

BMWCCA

04-13-2011, 07:54 PM

Not sure when your DVD player was made - but there is a well know period of Asian gear when bootleg caps (yes, really) were in the market. Its one reason the mac G5 was such a problem ... and a lot of gear of that era has problems due to the expanding/failing caps problem.

Funny, my iMac (the first G5 version) just killed it's second logic board. It had the logic board and the power supply replaced back when it was under Apple Care extended warranty. It's now about seven-years old. Don't know the date on the H-K but it's not that old. I do have the old caps for reference. My other cap-challenged appliance is a three-year-old Westinghouse HD-LDC TV. Another of those known problems so well documented on the Internet. Those bad caps must have been used for 5-years or more before these companies wised up. All for saving a few cents!

My experience at the Apple Store over the past week is a whole 'nuther story about buying a new iMac for my daughter and the poor customer service involved in transferring the data and a keyboard replacement (AppleCare) on my MacBook Pro. Not the right place or time right now! I'm beginning to realize Apple is no longer in the computer business and is really only catering to the iPhone/iPad crowd these days. Maybe they are ripe for becoming part of Harman. :banghead:

HCSGuy

04-13-2011, 08:47 PM

I think I saw another ACE-515 in the back of one of the cabinets this afternoon. If anyone still needs one, let me know - it will be cheap...

opimax

04-14-2011, 03:38 AM

Did someone mention cheap???

I am still searching for one. I don't care if we go private or not, what are the details ?

Mark

HCSGuy

04-14-2011, 06:27 AM

Paypal me $40 and I'll ship it to you, though I need to test it first, so there's no way it will get out before Monday. I'll PM you my email address this weekend after I've tested it. As I mentioned earlier, assume the surge protection is dead - this is out of a system that was installed in 1991, so it's no spring chicken or NOS virgin, but it looks great.

opimax

04-14-2011, 08:49 AM

Good deal! I want it, period , I do wonder if those parts can be replaced.

Whenever is ok, going on an almost all Adcom system (cheap Adcom cd player, anyone have one?)

Thanks

Mark

(sorry for OT Heather)

hjames

04-14-2011, 09:07 AM

Good deal! I want it, period , I do wonder if those parts can be replaced.

Whenever is ok, going on an almost all Adcom system (cheap Adcom cd player, anyone have one?)

I would think Bill Thalman and his folks could rebuild a surge protection circuiit for ya
http://www.musictechnology.com/ - Springfield, VA (http://www.musictechnology.com/)

They've done great with the Adcom stuff Steve and I have had them work on in the past ... As well as fixing my Citation 22.

SEAWOLF97

04-14-2011, 09:19 AM

going on an almost all Adcom system

I'm with you on this one Mark ...last year I picked up a "free to good home" GFA-555 (internal fuses blown - common occurrence ) , then a GTP-500 mk2 preamp and finally a
GDA-600 DAC* ... ...still looking for more , as I learn what Adcom has produced...:)

when I drove up to Tsawwassen to purchase my 250Ti's from Marty (JBLCanuk) , he had all Adcom gear and I could hear no deficiencies.

*incredibly SMOOTH DAC , I havnt heard too many, but none that I've demo'ed were that smooth sounding.

svollmer

04-14-2011, 09:35 AM

I second Heather's recommendation of Bill and the folks at Music Technology. :applaud:

Mark: didn't you buy a GTP-760 pre/pro? If so, you can get an Adcom GCD-575 for cheap and run the digital out of it into the GTP-760's digital input and you'll get excellent results. I know people have different views of whether D/A converters sound different or not, but I had an "OMG" experience the first time I let my GTP-760 do the D/A conversion for me.

I'm told that it's almost the equal of Adcom's GDA-700 D/A converter. Those units are snapped up real quickly whenever they appear on Audiogon, so there's buzz out there about them. Of course, you don't need the Adcom CD player, just one with a 75 ohm digital output.

BMWCCA

04-19-2011, 07:00 PM

Just "won" the appropriate NOS Adcom rack ears off The Bay today in an uncontested opening-bid of $15.99, including shipping. :dont-know:

I'm dealing with some a*s-wipe who insists what he sent me were Adcom RM-3 rack ears measuring 2-15/16" long. His ebay listing showed the Adcom box and installation sheet. I got used ears with hardware-store bolts in a you-pick-em bag. The ears measure 3-15/16" which I take to be RM-4. He keeps asking me if I'm installing them correctly!
:banghead:

So, two questions:
1. Anyone need some Adcom RM-4 rack-mount ears, cheap? They fit on that GTP-760 (http://www.adcom-usa.com/rm4a)!
2. Anyone have any Adcom RM-3 rack-mount ears, cheap?

$44 from Adcom plus shipping seems a bit ridiculous. I'll take a hack-saw and a drill to these first!

Fred Sanford

04-20-2011, 05:33 AM

I'm dealing with some a*s-wipe who insists what he sent me were Adcom RM-3 rack ears measuring 2-15/16" long. His ebay listing showed the Adcom box and installation sheet. I got used ears with hardware-store bolts in a you-pick-em bag. The ears measure 3-15/16" which I take to be RM-4. He keeps asking me if I'm installing them correctly!
:banghead:

So, two questions:
1. Anyone need some Adcom RM-4 rack-mount ears, cheap? They fit on that GTP-760 (http://www.adcom-usa.com/rm4a)!
2. Anyone have any Adcom RM-3 rack-mount ears, cheap?

$44 from Adcom plus shipping seems a bit ridiculous. I'll take a hack-saw and a drill to these first!

They'd fit my GTP-600, too...no pressing need for them here (it happily sits on a rack-mounted shelf), but I might be interested if you can't find a home for them.

je

BMWCCA

04-20-2011, 07:24 PM

They'd fit my GTP-600, too...no pressing need for them here (it happily sits on a rack-mounted shelf), but I might be interested if you can't find a home for them. The seller is happy to take them back but I figure by the time I go to the post-office, pay return shipping, and get ticked-off when he doesn't send me any refund, I'll be out $20. I'd rather give them away. They're a nicely made extrusion that would keep everything in complementary widths. If I don't hack/machine them while looking for real RM-3s, I'll let you know—or let me know if you find you have the need. Swap you for the PS-200? ;)

opimax

04-21-2011, 08:52 AM

The adcom stuff is stacked in 1 room

The 760 currently in not used in the "adcom" set up so the cd player wont necessarly be used with it, maybe when I change things around as usual

Fred Sanford

04-21-2011, 12:59 PM

The seller is happy to take them back but I figure by the time I go to the post-office, pay return shipping, and get ticked-off when he doesn't send me any refund, I'll be out $20. I'd rather give them away. They're a nicely made extrusion that would keep everything in complementary widths. If I don't hack/machine them while looking for real RM-3s, I'll let you know—or let me know if you find you have the need. Swap you for the PS-200? ;)

Not sure of the PS-200s condition or future use yet, but I'm sure there's a "beer & bagels" (or "cables & connectors") solution somewhere in between...let me know if you end up looking for a home for them.

je

BMWCCA

04-21-2011, 08:12 PM

Heck, seems like most Adcom components could use rack-ears for aesthetic value alone. :dont-know:

SEAWOLF97

04-22-2011, 11:04 AM

Heck, seems like most Adcom components could use rack-ears for aesthetic value alone. :dont-know:

Hey now .... dont be knocking Adcom . I've had really good luck with their gear and the sound/reliability is better than most in the price class (HK,NAD,etc) ....their looks are not flashy / BMWesque , but rather stark/functional. And on the used market its very reasonably priced. :D

who could ask for much more ?? :dont-know:

hjames

04-22-2011, 11:26 AM

Hey now .... dont be knocking Adcom . I've had really good luck with their gear and the sound/reliability is better than most in the price class (HK,NAD,etc) ....their looks are not flashy / BMWesque , but rather stark/functional. And on the used market its very reasonably priced. :D

who could ask for much more ?? :dont-know:

hey - I've got a number of their amps and power switches -
I'm liking them!

HCSGuy

04-22-2011, 12:57 PM

Remember Adcom components in white? That was pretty cool - too bad the plastic didn't age so well...

BMWCCA

04-22-2011, 04:24 PM

Hey now .... dont be knocking Adcom .
;) I'm not dissin' the stuff! They just always look to me like someone hack-sawed-off the rack mounts. I don't know why Adcom feels their rack mount ears are worth so much. I figure they should have come with the components. :dont-know:

hjames

04-23-2011, 08:06 AM

Well, one of my early GFA-555 amps came with built-on (non-detachable) rack-mount ears ...
Its the amp with the NON-ribbed faceplate at the bottom of the teak rack in the left picture.
The GFA-545 above it, the ACE-515 at the top of that rack, and the other GFA-555 have those pricey add-ons ears ...
The other 2 Adcoms I have, (a GFA-2535, and another ACE-515) have no rack-mount ears at all ... !

5108751088

SEAWOLF97

04-23-2011, 09:08 AM

Oh WOW ....was reading this thread re: Adcom ....and just remembered that 2 months ago I made a trade for a pristine GSP-560 ....its a Pro-Logic amp that will do 2 channel just fine (according to Adcom)

Almost one of those "bag of beans for good thang" thing. ( 2 TT belts , empty headshell and 2 eight inch foams) :D

BMWCCA

04-23-2011, 05:06 PM

Well, one of my early GFA-555 amps came with built-on (non-detachable) rack-mount ears ... Looks "right" to me!

BMWCCA

12-04-2011, 11:05 AM

After letting it sit around while I looked for rack-mount ears long enough, I bit the bullet and pulled the jumble of power cords out of my cabinet and installed the ACE-515 alongside the cab, sitting on the ground. I'd had enough of popping the breaker when kicking on the system. Yeah, I know, bit it's an old house. Works like a champ. Can't speak for cleaning up the sound since my outlets aren't even properly grounded and there's a very slight low-level hum heard on idle that's still there . . . I'm still waiting to redo the entire bi-amp system replacing the DC300A-II and D150A-II with PS400 and PS200 but the Adcom gives me the benefit of adding the turn-on delay that's built into the PS-series amps without the effort. My only complaint is I wish they'd used more 3-way grounded outlets since even my Soundcraftsmen Pro-EQ 44 has a three-prong plug. I just used the biggest honking outlet center I bought with my first Macintosh over twenty-years ago, ran it from the switched outlet on the Soundcraftsmen Pro-Control Four, hooked the trigger from the Adcom to the outlet center and plugged the three-pronged accessories into the outlet center. Figure any conditioning the Pro-Control pre-amp gains from the Adcom will be relayed to the outlet center and all accessories. :dont-know:

So, Squeezebox last week and power sequencer this week, who says you can't breath new life into these old electronics?
:new_to_me: (What a whacky new emoticon that came with the site upgrade!)