DVD/CD Player Recommendation?

[JBLAddict]

there was a good thread with seawolf among others that I wanted to jump into covering the merits of a Yamaha and Oppo line, but is unfortunately "closed"

The last component I have to upgrade is a 10-yr old Sony 5disc CD/DVD changer with Dolby Digital and dts. Looking for better audio on standard CDs, the latest movie encodings, SACD, as well as BlueRay, and DVD-audio.

Q1: how do the decoders/DAC of the player interact or not become redundant with those on my HK-AVR354? would the fine DAC of the Oppo for example be reprocessed by the AVR? I never quite understood how the interaction between the source and receiver actually works wrt to the conversion from digital to analog--is my current Sony sending a digital signal through the optical cable (no HDMI on this model), bypassing it's own decoder, and the AVR is doing all the decoding to analog?

Q2: I believe SACD requires analog outs to the AVR in order to use only the players DAC, from what I read, do I have this correct? and what then about the other multichannel movie formats like, how does an HDMI or digital connection from player to AVR affect those? What I want is one HDMI connection from player to AVR, but not sure if this negates the processing of an expensive CD-DVD unit.

thanks much for any advice!

[hjames]

OK I'll help with the Q1/Q2 - I haven't gone to Blueray yet, but with my older (non-bluray) Oppo, it does DTS, Dolby, DVD-A, and SACD, as well as HDCD and Dvix decoding. It basically works the same way with the older HK AVR 335 as it does with my current HK AVR 7300.

I initially had just the optical link between it and my HK - but found you have to run multiple connections between the Disc player and the AVR to get all of the functionality. My older OPPO does 5.1, not the 7.1 of some units - so you run 6 discreet RCA cables to the "6 Direct" ports on the receiver - thats for the SACD and DVD-A signals.
Movie audio come across on the optical link, and I let the receiver determine if its Dolby or DTS.
Standard stereo CDs go through a discreet left/right pair of RCA cables - so the OPPO DAC is doing the decoding.

Video is just an HDMI cable direct to the TV - my receiver is pre-HDMI, but the TV has HDMI in, as well as component.


Does that help?






The last component I have to upgrade is a 10-yr old Sony 5disc CD/DVD changer with Dolby Digital and dts. Looking for better audio on standard CDs, the latest movie encodings, SACD, as well as BlueRay, and DVD-audio.

Q1: how do the decoders/DAC of the player interact or not become redundant with those on my HK-AVR354? would the fine DAC of the Oppo for example be reprocessed by the AVR? I never quite understood how the interaction between the source and receiver actually works wrt to the conversion from digital to analog--is my current Sony sending a digital signal through the optical cable (no HDMI on this model), bypassing it's own decoder, and the AVR is doing all the decoding to analog?

Q2: I believe SACD requires analog outs to the AVR in order to use only the players DAC, from what I read, do I have this correct? and what then about the other multichannel movie formats like, how does an HDMI or digital connection from player to AVR affect those? What I want is one HDMI connection from player to AVR, but not sure if this negates the processing of an expensive CD-DVD unit.

thanks much for any advice!

[Punch]

I have a McIntosh MVP-871.....amazing unit. $1600 pre-owned, as new condition from Audio Classics. Speak with Frank....he can answer any questions.

[JBLAddict]

OK I'll help with the Q1/Q2 - I haven't gone to Blueray yet, but with my older (non-bluray) Oppo, it does DTS, Dolby, DVD-A, and SACD, as well as HDCD and Dvix decoding. It basically works the same way with the older HK AVR 335 as it does with my current HK AVR 7300.

I initially had just the optical link between it and my HK - but found you have to run multiple connections between the Disc player and the AVR to get all of the functionality. My older OPPO does 5.1, not the 7.1 of some units - so you run 6 discreet RCA cables to the "6 Direct" ports on the receiver - thats for the SACD and DVD-A signals.
Movie audio come across on the optical link, and I let the receiver determine if its Dolby or DTS.
Standard stereo CDs go through a discreet left/right pair of RCA cables - so the OPPO DAC is doing the decoding.

Video is just an HDMI cable direct to the TV - my receiver is pre-HDMI, but the TV has HDMI in, as well as component.


Does that help?

thanks Heather. I think I understand correctly that the player requires SACD and DVD-A output with RCA cables exclusively?

but for all other digital formats (Dolby Digital, Dolby True HD, Dolby stereo), if I have a digital connection from the player to the AVR (HDMI, optical) does that by default bypass the player's DAC?

[hjames]

thanks Heather. I think I understand correctly that the player requires SACD and DVD-A output with RCA cables exclusively?

but for all other digital formats (Dolby Digital, Dolby True HD, Dolby stereo), if I have a digital connection from the player to the AVR (HDMI, optical) does that by default bypass the player's DAC?

Sure - any of the specialized movie/TV sources are handled pretty well by the HK receiver - feed the raw stream out of the DVD player and let the receiver handle it.

On my HK I set the audio source for each source Optical 1/2/3, Analog 1/2/3 etc ... with such selectivity, you can check and see which work best for you, right?

[JBLAddict]

On my HK I set the audio source for each source Optical 1/2/3, Analog 1/2/3 etc ... with such selectivity, you can check and see which work best for you, right?

right, I can use multiple inputs on the AVR from multiple outputs of a single source.

Just wondering, generally speaking, if a source's digital output is used, does that always bypass the source's DAC and revert to that of the receiver/pre-pro?

[BMWCCA]

Anybody tried this OPPO yet?
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-80/blu-ray-BDP-80-Features.aspx

[Steve0616]

re: "Just wondering, generally speaking, if a source's digital output is used, does that always bypass the source's DAC and revert to that of the receiver/pre-pro?"


Yes, the optical or coaxial digital output is passed directly from the disc to the player's digital audio output. The receiver or processor decodes the Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream, applies the bass management and time delays, converts the signal to analog and outputs it to the amps or speakers.

[rdgrimes]

Anybody tried this OPPO yet?
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-80/blu-ray-BDP-80-Features.aspx
I've been beta testing that one for about 7 months. Analog audio outputs are near identical to the previous Oppo flagship DVD player, the 983. Apart from Blu-Ray capabilities, it's very similar to the previous 980 DVD player. Slightly better DVD upscaling. A VERY solid alternative to the more expensive BDP-83 model unless analog audio quality is your main concern. Although to be honest, 75% of the HT systems out there can't resolve the differences.

It becomes available tomorrow.

[rdgrimes]

Yes, the optical or coaxial digital output is passed directly from the disc to the player's digital audio output. The receiver or processor decodes the Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream, applies the bass management and time delays, converts the signal to analog and outputs it to the amps or speakers.
Actually, some players do mess with CD audio even on the digital outs. DVD bitstreams are untouched.

[BMWCCA]

It becomes available tomorrow.Any chance we'll be offered an SE version of that one??? :)

[rdgrimes]

Any chance we'll be offered an SE version of that one??? :)
No. The analog section is actually quite good compared to others of considerably higher price. It's not as clear as the dedicated stereo outs on the BDP-83, but not much is except the SE edition and some VERY expensive alternatives. Shucks, you can spend $3500 on the new Lexicon and get a standard BDP-83 inside, not even the SE!

The new Cambridge Azur 650BD is actually built on the Oppo BDP-80 chassis. We don't yet know what mods they might have made, if any.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/set_territory.php?TID=27&Redirect=/summary.php?PID=492

[Mr. Widget]

I've been beta testing that one for about 7 months. Analog audio outputs are near identical to the previous Oppo flagship DVD player, the 983. Apart from Blu-Ray capabilities, it's very similar to the previous 980 DVD player. Slightly better DVD upscaling. A VERY solid alternative to the more expensive BDP-83 model unless analog audio quality is your main concern. Although to be honest, 75% of the HT systems out there can't resolve the differences. Are you kidding?

Probably 90% of HT systems are theater in the box crap fests. ;)

I have played with the Lexicon/Oppo... it is a very nice piece with excellent video, I wouldn't hesitate recommending it to anyone with a very large display or projection system.


Widget

[rdgrimes]

Are you kidding?

Probably 90% of HT systems are theater in the box crap fests. ;)

I have played with the Lexicon/Oppo... it is a very nice piece with excellent video, I wouldn't hesitate recommending it to anyone with a very large display or projection system.


Widget
So you'd recommend that someone spend $3500 for a Lexicon polished aluminum face plate? ;) For $500 they can get the Oppo with black aluminum. Same hardware inside. For $900 they can get the Oppo SE with considerably better analog boards than the Lexicon has.

[Mr. Widget]

So you'd recommend that someone spend $3500 for a Lexicon polished aluminum face plate? ;)For the person who wants exemplary dealer service, a product backed by a 4 billion dollar company, likes silver, and can afford it, yes. :D

Would I suggest you or I buy the Lexicon over the Oppo? Of course not.


Widget

[rdgrimes]

For the person who wants exemplary dealer service, a product backed by a 4 billion dollar company, likes silver, and can afford it, yes. :D

Would I suggest you or I buy the Lexicon over the Oppo? Of course not.


Widget
I realize that the dealer structure and support system is a lot different for Lexicon. But even at that, $3000 is a bit of a stretch. ;) Lexicon seems to have screwed the pooch on this player.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/lexicon-bd-30-blu-ray-oppo-clone/oppo-inside-lexicon-outside-1

[Mr. Widget]

I realize that the dealer structure and support system is a lot different for Lexicon. But even at that, $3000 is a bit of a stretch. ;) Lexicon seems to have screwed the pooch on this player.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/lexicon-bd-30-blu-ray-oppo-clone/oppo-inside-lexicon-outside-1I don't know... they have had a hard time keeping up with demand. Not everyone is an AVS Forum member or is constrained by the financial realities that the rest of us face.

As for reviews... can we really trust any of them? Lexicon BD-30 Review (http://hometheaterreview.com/lexicon-bd-30-universal-blu-ray-player-reviewed/)


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

Jerry and Dr. Ken both got severe Del Collion-oscopies over that one! Ouch and double ouch! :moon: :moon:

[rdgrimes]

Jerry and Dr. Ken both got severe Del Collion-oscopies over that one! Ouch and double ouch! :moon: :moon:
Well deserved at least in this case. Both from the angle of a very poorly thought out "review", and even worse handling of the aftermath.
Anyways........ there's a pretty cogent argument against a better performing player being had at any price.

Back to the BDP-80, I think there's a good chance it will wind up being viewed as the best value available in a universal player. Particularly since there are no options anywhere close to the price. They're (Chinese and Danish) already making the hardware mods to make it region free.

[Mr. Widget]

Q2: I believe SACD requires analog outs to the AVR in order to use only the players DAC, from what I read, do I have this correct? and what then about the other multichannel movie formats like, how does an HDMI or digital connection from player to AVR affect those? What I want is one HDMI connection from player to AVR, but not sure if this negates the processing of an expensive CD-DVD unit.
Back to the BDP-80, I think there's a good chance it will wind up being viewed as the best value available in a universal player. Particularly since there are no options anywhere close to the price. I think you are probably right that the BDP-80 will satisfy the requirements of a plug 'n play HDMI solution with a very high bang for the buck quotient.

I'd submit if you are using a very large plasma or LCD you should consider spending $200 more and get the BDP-83.

If you are into DVD-A or SACD and have a preamp with multi channel analog inputs or are a 2 channel only sort, I would consider the BDP-83S3. Slightly OT. Has anyone compared the Sony SCD-XA5400ES decoding 2 channel SACD with the Oppo BDP-83SE?


Widget

[midlife]

I would like the BDP83 and I'm slowly get the $$ for it. I will use it with a Samsung 52" and a two channel, four speaker "surround"

[Mr. Widget]

I had do do my own shoot out. :D

I must have been inspired by TiDome, posting pictures before I have anything to say, but for those interested in a brief comparison between these players come back on Sunday/Monday, and I'll post my opinion of all four.


Widget

[hjames]

I had do do my own shoot out. :D

I must have been inspired by TiDome, posting pictures before I have anything to say, but for those interested in a brief comparison between these players come back on Sunday/Monday, and I'll post my opinion of all four.


Widget

Wow, thanks very much Mr Widget! I'm not in a rush for a BDP,
but when I get one later this year, its likely to be OPPO,
and would probably be the BDP-80 -
likely a nice upgrade to the OPPO 981HD I'm using now.

I eagerly await your review - and thanks again!

[BMWCCA]

I had do do my own shoot out. :D

I must have been inspired by TiDome, posting pictures before I have anything to say, but for those interested in a brief comparison between these players come back on Sunday/Monday, and I'll post my opinion of all four.

http://www.mye28.com/images/smiles/popcorn.gif
Looking forward to it! I, too, can see a BDP-80 in my future.

Thanks! :applaud:

[Mr. Widget]

First let me explain what I have compared.

I have only compared the analog audio outs and really only the stereo left and right outputs in a simple but high quality two channel stereo system.

Now, let me put a quick end to the Lexicon/Oppo issue.

In comparing them, there was no performance difference between the Lexicon BD-30 and the Oppo BDP-83. The mechanisms were the same, response time, audio quality, etc... all the same as far as I could tell. That said, if money were not an issue, the look and feel of the Lexicon is significantly nicer... even the shade of blue from the display was a much brighter and nicer look. Is this alone worth a $3K price increase? Not likely, it does feature a 3 year warranty instead of a 1 year, but even so the math doesn't add up for my budget.

How about the Oppo BDP-80? Well, I compared it with the other two Oppo players and it wasn't as good. How do we quantify that? Hell if I know! I also compared it to my old Sony SACD/DVD player that was their $1200+ flagship a little over a decade ago. (It weighs about 40 lbs. and still performs regularly and faithfully... will any of these players last that long?) I think the SACD quality of the Oppo BDP-80 was a little better than the Sony's, and the CD analog audio was about the same... the sound stage was flat and rather compressed in both players to about the same degree... the Sony was a bit mellower or smoother sounding, the BDP-80 was a bit brighter sounding, but there was no more detail, air, or sense of space.

The Oppo BDP-83 was slightly better in every regard, but really only slightly. If a CD was playing that I was very familiar with and I walked into the room, I would not be able to tell you reliably which player was playing.

The Oppo BDP-83 Special Edition was certainly the best of the bunch, but again, not by a great margin. There was more air, the highs were more delicate, detailed, and extended, there was a more relaxed quality to the sound but with more detail not less. Of all five players I compared, it was without a doubt the one I'd prefer for musical playback. For now I will keep it in my system. I expect to have a Bryston BDA-1 DAC by the end of the week. I will compare the Special Edition's analog audio quality with the digital out through that DAC next weekend.


Widget

[midlife]

Does the BDP-80 have analog L&R outs for those wanting to use two channel stereo audio playback?

[hjames]

Does the BDP-80 have analog L&R outs for those wanting to use two channel stereo audio playback?

Believe the BDP-80 has a 7.1/5.1 analog output - so for analog stereo, you'd just grab the fronts/mains ...

[Mr. Widget]

Does the BDP-80 have analog L&R outs for those wanting to use two channel stereo audio playback?
Believe the BDP-80 has a 7.1/5.1 analog output - so for analog stereo, you'd just grab the fronts/mains ...Yes. That is how I used it. If you pop in a multichannel SACD or DVD-A you must press a button on the remote to select 2-Channel though or it will default to the L+R channels of the multi channel mix.

There might be a menu selection to set this as a system preference, but setting this up would require a TV connection. Along those lines, the BDP-80 initially started up in a "EZ-Setup" mode. To get it to function as an audio player you have to press enter three times to get past this. The other two Oppos did not require this.

I am not sure I'd recommend buying the BDP-80 for stereo playback unless it has some feature set you are currently missing and want. It's 2-channel audio performance wasn't particularly special, though it was certainly competent. If you already have competent playback I would either save up to spend more on one of the better players or I would stick with what I had.

One minor gripe about the Oppos. Their power cords are very similar to standard IEC removable power cords, but they are not interchangeable with IEC cords. I am not a power cord swapper, but the inconvenience of a unique cord is real. It appears the style that Oppo is using is less beefy and I suppose a few cents cheaper than a standard IEC cord. I guess these guys really shave pennies.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

The Oppo BDP-83 Special Edition was certainly the best of the bunch, but again, not by a great margin. There was more air, the highs were more delicate, detailed, and extended, there was a more relaxed quality to the sound but with more detail not less. Of all five players I compared, it was without a doubt the one I'd prefer for musical playback. For now I will keep it in my system. I expect to have a Bryston BDA-1 DAC by the end of the week. I will compare the Special Edition's analog audio quality with the digital out through that DAC next weekend.I have been using the BDP-83 Special Edition as my primary source for a bit over a week now and I feel comfortable saying that it is very good.

Last night I finally received my Bryston BDA-1 DAC. I compared the digital out of the Oppo through the Bryston DAC to the analog outputs of the Special Edition. Pretty noticeable difference. The outboard DAC had a much better sound stage, with an overall clearer and less grungy sound. The highs were more crystalline. Could I be happy with the Oppo alone, I was, but last night was the first time in quite a while that I wasn't longing for the clicks and pops of a turntable. :)


Widget

[herki the cat]

=Jerry and Dr. Ken both got severe Del Collion-oscopies over that one! Ouch and double ouch! :moon: :moon:
[quote=herki the cat]
Well, maybe it appears that Jerry & Dr Ken Taraazka were abused,but you need to wear their shoes for a couple hours perusing Dr. Ken Taraszk's excellent reviews & home theater.com Website's ... jerry's experience with the policies of superb Icons like Mark Levensen inc., which morphed into Madrigal Inc., then together with Lexicon marched into Harman international etc. These companies have always offered superb after market support & excellent warranty service on their sophisticated proprietary products, but it was for good and valid reason impossible to purchase any of their drawings, or parts list or technical data regarding their product designs. It has always been "stay of our box, & do not monkey with our products."

They always insisted on doing all repairs in house well into decades after the product models became obsolete. I have been there. Madrigal was very accommodating when the Mark Levensen product was still in production because it was very convenient to simply drop the repairable product into the production line etc. It was impossible to buy any repair documentation from these companies, much less have entrée or access into their equipment system profiles or technology, specifically "to grab a list of the improved design items" that went into the Lexicon BD 30 Blue Ray demanded by the unfriendly review desenting critics, no one outside of these companies will understand the
product design engineering and the specification control of the parts & components peculiar or have access to parts inventory, or procurement, or much less the purchase documentation. Parts inventory is very complicated.

Lexicon is not talking. If you like the BD 30, buy it or forget it. From what i see, Lexicon did a superb design in the BD 30 Blue Ray, and I exepect to buy this product some day soon; Dr. Ken has witnessed the excellent equipment product design and product performance, he is very astute, the clues are there in his review. In all modesty, i have been working with mechanisms & electronic for 72 years including 40 years with critical Military Product Designs and Production. I have hired & trained several engineers for RCA in my work place. I remember interviewing one bright mechanical engineering candidate whom i asked for a description of his special expertise & his reply was "no specialty, I am very versitile..my word, the poor fellow had never even taken an alarm clock apart in his life, & I was looking for creative people for my group...Bonne, Ce la vie.

The competition should know there is a very impressive Lexicon BD 30 profile specification free for the asking of the new Lexicon BD 30 which an army of quality control experts require the factory to adhere to before the product leaves the floor.. Still they are screaming for a list of technical details executed by Lexicon, which they will never understand any more than the house wife understands the design details of her automobile's windshield engineering that guarantees that harmless piece of glass will always safely pop out in a head-on crash with minimum harm to the driver.

Here is a snip-it of Dr.Ray's review:

The Lexicon BD-30 has the best build quality of any Blu-ray player I have seen to date. The thick, machined faceplate with deeply indented lettering and recessed area for the drawer and display are exceptional-looking, while the remainder of the case is rock solid. This isn't some Japanese stamped steel player, and for the price, it shouldn't be. The Lexicon BD-30 has the best build quality of any Blu-ray player I have seen to date.

The thick, machined faceplate with deeply indented lettering and recessed area for the drawer and display are exceptional-looking, while the remainder of the case is rock solid. This isn't some Japanese stamped steel player, and for the price, it shouldn't be.

The rear has everything you'd expect from a player that does it all. A 7.1-channel analog output and a dedicated stereo output are included, one each optical and coaxial digital outs, composite and component video, LAN port, a second USB 2.0 port, HDMI and RS-232 controlThe rear has everything you'd expect from a player that does it all. A 7.1-channel analog output and a dedicated stereo output are included, one each optical and coaxial digital outs, composite and component video, LAN port, a second USB 2.0 port, HDMI and RS-232 control.....and on and on.

Dr, Ken has the credentials, and superb Audio equipment to audition this Lexicon. It is not unusual to meet Medical Doctors with a keen engineering mind. After all it does take a fine mechanic also to perform the marvelous new surgery procedures of today. Madame herki at age 84 has been there...she has been skiing two years now with a superb knee replacement which is pain-free and works better than the orignal knee.

Basta para ahora, 5:30 AM....herki the cat

[JBLAddict]

Widget, thanks for detailed comparisons of the various OPPO players. To confirm I did buy the SE in March.....it's just about everything I've read it would be. If there's a way to get better analog sound out of my L7s, I'm interested, but probably not going to see it for anywhere near the $900 SE pricetag

Edit: wait a minute, the Bryston seems to use the same Cirrus Crystal CS-4398 DAC that the Oppo BDP-83 uses for it's two channel analog, so how the Bryston in your assessment noticeably outclasses the 83SE is confusing?

[Hoerninger]

I wasn't longing for the clicks and pops of a turntable. :)


Nicely said :)
____________
Peter