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Don McRitchie
06-28-2004, 08:37 AM
In four years of running a forum on this site, I had previously only banned one member after a blatant personal attack. This weekend, I have had to ban two. I think that this is just an anomaly. However, to ensure that it does not get out of hand, I have posted the forum rules as a sticky to the begining of each forum. Further, I am opening up this thread for comment and suggestions on how to handle such incidents in the future. My approach to date has been quite rigid in banning inappropriate conduct. However, I am open to suggestions.

boputnam
06-28-2004, 09:06 AM
IMO, the "offending" individual was hell-bent on being cross at a Forumite. I spent (too...) many reply posts trying to mitigate their anger, and help them see that there can be many (often subtle) interpretations to the written word.

A simple, blunt reply does not mean :die:, it may mean :rolleyes: , or even :moon:. In any event, if seen through, it almost always ends with :cheers:.

;)

4313B
06-28-2004, 10:00 AM
I guess the forum rules need to be posted conspicuously and members need to use the PM feature to resolve differences. If a forum member sees a post that they feel is inappropriate they should PM the author and if that doesn't rectify the situation they should use the "Report this post to a moderator" feature.

I guess I'd like to see "bans" given a second chance.

boputnam
06-28-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
I guess I'd like to see "bans" given a second chance. :yes:

Robh3606
06-28-2004, 10:13 AM
Yeah I think they should get a second chance after a warning. We all fly off the handle sooner or latter.:bash:

Rob :)

Maron Horonzakz
06-29-2004, 07:16 AM
Two other forums I frequent are having the same problem. The only solution they found was instant justis. Come down hard & kick them off the forum.

Wardsweb
06-29-2004, 10:48 AM
Welcome to the world of forum owner/moderator. There are many sides to this coin. On one hand this is not a democracy, it is more like a home. So, as the home owner you set the rules. I feel each should be dealt with on a case by case basis. You can post guidlines for people to be in the know, but how you enforce them I think is dependent on the infraction. With over 2700 members at AK, we have banned less than 10. Some of these were blantant attacks on long standing members, some were guys that just wouldn't leave well enough alone (even after warnings), while others were just trolling to make trouble. Others came into line after a PM let them know what was expected.

4313B
06-30-2004, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie
However, I am open to suggestions. Don, I would like to have the following emoticons added to the smilies if possible:

hand grenade toss - :nade:
small mushroom cloud - :shroom:
fellow weeping :boohoo:
universal "no whining" sign :nowhining:

Thanks ;)

boputnam
06-30-2004, 08:36 AM
:rotfl:

I also suggest:

:search: - icon that matches the underused utility button

:forgive me if I shoot myself: - we've covered that questions innumerable times and I simply cannot suffer another go at it

: onholiday: - I'm too bored with this Thread to bother

;)

4313B
06-30-2004, 08:44 AM
Outstanding additions Bo! :yes:

Don McRitchie
06-30-2004, 09:59 AM
I think I can probably address all of these requirements. For now, I have updated the Forum Rules to make the very first guideline a plea to search the forum before asking a question.

Tom Roper
06-30-2004, 10:44 PM
Seems to me when users are required to post under their actual name instead of assumed screen names, they will be less likely to say anonymously what they might be ashamed to say in person.
My $0.02

Maron Horonzakz
07-01-2004, 08:48 AM
If you drop the last Z you have my last name. I have never been ashamed or afraid to use my name on any forum. I dont understand why people use these crazy monokers.

Ian Mackenzie
07-01-2004, 09:06 AM
This forum compared to others is free of such problems.

I am inclined to think that posting "rules" will have the opposite effect, as it raises the awareness of poor conduct rather than people going about their business posting natural questions and answers.

People become cynical of each other and watch to catch each other out...thats what's evolved on diyaudio.com since they bought in the rule book.

The other thing is if you are tired or are in an arrogant mood, stay away from the forums. Snide remarks are what starts forum riots, there are no winners, its takes two..always.

I would like to see the current policy maintained with a twist, if someone goes off and the other responds, ban them both.

I would also like to think that this thread will be erased when we are done, its un attractive.

Ian

4313B
07-01-2004, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Maron Horonzakz
I dont understand why people use these crazy monokers. Because the World Wide Web is full of skanky wankers who can do anything they want with your name. I cringe every time I see an employee's name spelled out in the forum, especially now that we've had bots download the entire forum content.


I think you've got some good points there Ian.

4313B
07-01-2004, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Tom Roper
Seems to me when users are required to post under their actual name instead of assumed screen names, they will be less likely to say anonymously what they might be ashamed to say in person.
My $0.02 I would support that kind of a forum if it were paid subscription with a hefty fee to keep the riff raff out. And it would have to be a secure site.

jbl
07-09-2004, 11:35 AM
Hi Don,
Most of the "turmoil" that I have seen on the forum, was the result of some of the same members responding to this thread. The issue was usually a new member asking a question about the L-100's. The replys were both arrogant and insulting. The person was either laughed at or told right out that the L-100's suck. All those people wanted was information regarding a problem they were having. I have often been tempted to respond to this abusive behavior but I felt that it was your (Don's) forum and that I would look bad. So I let it go. Now I see some of the same members setting rules? Don, if those members don't like the topic, no one is twisting their arms to answer. What gets me the most is that those members are perhaps the most qualified to help the person asking the question! Perhaps if they considered every question as if it were about the 4343 or 4345, they would show the same respect.

Ron

boputnam
07-09-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by jbl
Most of the "turmoil" that I have seen on the forum, was the result of some of the same members responding to this thread. The issue was usually a new member asking a question about the L-100's. The replys were both arrogant and insulting. ... Perhaps if they considered every question as if it were about the 4343 or 4345, they would show the same respect. Well, in quite un-veiled, and accusatory fashion that statistically suggests myself, and at the least, Giskard. Interesting. Maybe since we are "out here" more often, regardless of helping or humoring, we (I) more frequently get tagged with poorly interpreted posts. That seems statistically valid, and moots a portion of your post.

As to the "arrogant" accusation, that I believe is baseless. I presently OWN three pairs of L-100's in my extended family, and am responsible for having bought them, and for their upkeep.

Therefore, since I have the following PAIRS of speakers:
3 - L100's
2 - 4313B's
2 - 4301B's
1 - 4406's
1 - 4345
1 - EV QRx 115/75's
2.5 - EV Eliminator Monitors

I have ZERO qualms about sharing my personal opinion.

And, finally, dood, I do consider every question as important as every other, whether they are specifically about opinions or direct knowledge of any of my speaker clan.

Maybe this will help you interpret my willingness to humor, and help. Likely, not, and you'll spite me for this directness. :(

4313B
07-09-2004, 12:10 PM
OMG!
"Respect" and "L100" in the same post.
Game over man!
We're doomed!

boputnam
07-09-2004, 12:14 PM
Dammit! Now I need a group hug... :p

Figge
07-09-2004, 12:17 PM
i think they were combined just to save space on the server hdd.:)

jbl
07-09-2004, 12:23 PM
I don't recall mentioning names. Guilty conscience?
Ron

4313B
07-09-2004, 12:24 PM
Don,

I need a new icon. I need the Mountain Giant from Age of Mythology first kicking an L100 Century and then smashing it with his club.

Thanks! :p

4313B
07-09-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Figge
i think they were combined just to save space on the server hdd.:) :rotfl:

boputnam
07-09-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by jbl
I don't recall mentioning names. Guilty conscience? Oh, man - don't be nutters! I have nothing of the kind - your post was quite implicit to those schooled in statistics... Don't be denying the intent of your post - that is insulting. I get it. You not only think me arrogant, now you imply I am a dope.

I only was trying to dissuade you of a misperception. Obviously, I cannot. I am sorry.

Don McRitchie
07-09-2004, 12:49 PM
JBL

I do value your input into this topic and anything that can be done to make this forum a civil place is worthwhile. However, I can't aggree that the issues that sparked this thread were related to L100 bashing. Neither of the recent bans had anything to do with a discussion of the L100. There is no question that pointing out the deficiencies of the L100 has become somewhat of an inside joke around here. However, I have no means to control others opinions without turning into a censor - a role for which I am neither equipped nor desire. Personally, I have seen virtually every JBL system trashed by someone at some point in time on this very forum. It kind of goes with the territory if you are going provide an open venue for discussion. However, as soon as the discussion turns personal, a line has been crossed and this is where I step in. If you read the posting guidelines you will see that this is in fact the one and only true "rule" that applies.

boputnam
07-09-2004, 01:37 PM
Dammit! Now we gone and woke the Giant!! :scold:

Go now, sleep well, oh Giant - we here will get on with more lofty endeavors, I assure you... :yes:

jbl
07-09-2004, 02:03 PM
Just expressing my opinion. Nothing personal. I never mentioned names only my displesaure with how a potential new member was treated. I'm entitled to that and that's where it ends for me.

Ron

Ian Mackenzie
07-09-2004, 02:07 PM
Hmm,

Would appear the damn Yankee needs to tip toe through the tulips next time.

I recall years ago stiring the foundations of one particular cult audio religion when I compared my JBL's against planar or panel speakers like Maggies in an audio club newsletter.

The feedback I got was most unwelcome as they took it personally even though my article was based on science rather than opinion. Its the issue of "ownership and pride here" and naturally people don't like seeing that bagged no matter how subtle and I think its more politically correct to say model B is technically superior to model A than model A is crap in my experience because I've owned them all...blah..blah.

Perhap we all need to think more carefully before we mix opinion and fact in our postings.

Ian

boputnam
07-09-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
Would appear the damn Yankee needs to tip toe through the tulips next time.

Mr. Widget
07-09-2004, 02:48 PM
While I agree that our trashing one of JBL's most successful designs can be off putting at times, seeing it in light of Bo's statistical implications...


Bo posts more than I do and has three pairs of L-100s as opposed to my one pair. I guess that explains why he damns them more than I do. :rotfl:

As for Giskard, well that is another story.

But seriously, they are a fine speaker that has a certain character. For those that appreciate that character they may very well be nearly perfect. I have wondered about the wisdom of this inside joke about them as so many people that cruise this forum are not on the inside.

Widget

PS. Bo, put that cat down!

Alex Lancaster
07-09-2004, 02:52 PM
It´s clear, hang that horrible Bo!!:D

Ian Mackenzie
07-09-2004, 03:07 PM
Oh,

I reality he's very nice, rather quiet and polite.

Here he is behind the mixer in La Honda with darling wifey Suz and Band leader Mike.


Ian

boputnam
07-09-2004, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
I reality he's very nice, rather quiet and polite.
Yea, but looking at that pic, jbl must be right - I clearly am a dope (apparently...) sharing my wife with THAT joker!

At least we can see that I do buy the beer - so you got the "nice" part right. ;)

Sure wish you had a pic or two of our proper gigs - this one, while our favorite Grateful Dead / rockabilly hangout ain't got the best aethetics... :rotfl: Ha! Remember the "warm" reception all the bikers gave us on load-in? They'd NEVER seen such racks, stacks and desk! But, they were all rockin' - even during sound check! :dancin:

Tom Roper
07-09-2004, 06:25 PM
I can remember at least one instance maybe more...that began with somebody posting a link to an Ebay auction for L100's, followed up by group comment...."Hey lookie what that idiot paid for a pair of Centuries, $500! Doesn't that fool know they're not worth more than $100 tops?..."

The auction reads something like "Rare, prized and cherished by all JBL vintage collectors, these speakers have the sought after alnico magnets....yada..."

But for the elitists who unloaded theirs for $100, parted them out, or put them into the dumpster, who is the joke really on?

I still have mine...L100As and 4311WXAs, with original foam grills, JBL medallions, no tweeter foam rot, no scratches or water stains. And you're not getting them from me for $100 bucks either, no matter how much smack you talk. I love 'em. :)

Figge
07-09-2004, 07:16 PM
DAMMIT BO!!! are u stoned in that picture up there!:spin:

:spin:been workin´ with the foam remover substances "MEK" again?:spin: or is it just a pair of L100:s playin` behind the photographer?

that heineken is lookin´ good though!

Ian Mackenzie
07-09-2004, 07:37 PM
No no,

That was the night before......LOL..LOL.

We had a pre Gig meeting and the hour went late.

In the morning the Dude was up and around for a while then announced he had a headache.....Man he was pale.

The bugger spent the whole avo lying on the lounge smooching his 4345's while myself and Jo (the engineer) drove down to Santa Cruz in a nice red Mustang for some serious girlie watching and a few quiet ales.

We never made it back for the load out but called and left an amusing message that the local sheriff called up for bail money as he had locked up two bad boys up in county jail for soliciting under age ladies on the beach.


Ian:rotfl:

Figge
07-09-2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
In the morning the Dude was up and around for a while then announced he had a headache.....Man he was pale.



no shit? easy with the refoaming guys! remember: good vented areas only!

Ian Mackenzie
07-09-2004, 07:55 PM
Absolutely,

There was a lot of farting the next morning.

Buts thats what you get for mixing Californian red with Mexican paint thinner (shot glasses all round) ...it ain't a pretty sight.

Ian

Figge
07-10-2004, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
he had locked up two bad boys up in county jail for soliciting under age ladies on the beach.


ian!:scold:

:cool:

boputnam
07-10-2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Figge
... or is it just a pair of L100:s playin` behind the photographer? :yes: With Ian's knowledgeable guidance and insistance, we sold our EV QRx 153/75's and replaced them with stacks of L100's. Simply nuthin' finer...

Mr. Widget
07-10-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by boputnam
...and replaced them with stacks of L100's. Simply nuthin' finer...

:scold:

You'll never learn.:blah:


Widget

boputnam
07-10-2004, 12:54 PM
:moon:

Ian Mackenzie
07-10-2004, 06:27 PM
Sunday morning mass........

Forgive me Father for I have sinned.

"I have been playing my JBL 4345's all weekend and now I have to confess my reluctance to play my L100's".

Ah don't feel so troubled young man as you have sort for all things good and improvement in lifes experiences. As an example the leader of our church, the archbishop J Lansing Jnr trashed his L100's when he upgraded to 4350's.

Ian



:rolleyes:

boputnam
07-10-2004, 07:12 PM
I love you, man... :p

Ian Mackenzie
07-10-2004, 07:34 PM
Well I like being honest. No fibbing aound here.

Hey Giskard, have you finshed cleaning your 6 shooter?

What about we do a diy 4313 project or similar 80's retro kit for these L100 huggers, even a mini 4 way.

People in the end need to move one after a time, something may sound appealing but that does not mean its right or can't be improved on.


Ian

4313B
07-10-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
As for Giskard, well that is another story.Huh?


Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
Hey Giskard, have you finshed cleaning your 6 shooter?Always oiled and ready. Only five chambers are loaded, the hammer's on the empty.


Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
What about we do a diy 4313 project or similar 80's retro kit for these L100 huggers, even a mini 4 way.I'd just replace the caps, the L-Pads and the wiring in the L100 and call it a day myself.

boputnam
07-10-2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Giskard
Only five chambers are loaded, the hammer's on the empty. Yea, same here - I used that one on my L100's... :die:

Ian Mackenzie
07-10-2004, 08:50 PM
"Always oiled and ready. Only five chambers are loaded, the hammer's on the empty. "

Oh well, spin the chamber and ask'em do you feel lucky punk? Well do ya punk?


"I'd just replace the caps, the L-Pads and the wiring in the L100 and call it a day myself."

Actually thats a good point, mine crackle that much I often wonder if thats half the problem with them.

Ian

Alex Lancaster
07-10-2004, 10:35 PM
There go Mean Mean Mr. Mus... er Putnam and the evil sorcerer G., again, anyway Real Men use Desert Eagles .50 Mag.

Figge
07-10-2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
Real Men use Desert Eagles .50 Mag.



look at Rambo with his m60! a desrt eagle would not do it for him!

4313B
07-11-2004, 07:49 AM
I personally prefer the MG42 or the M2HB