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Don Mascali
11-18-2009, 03:34 AM
I have 2446Hs on 2380a horns that I plan to use on a portable DJ system this weekend. I would appreciate advice on whether to add equalization to them, or add 1 or 2, 2404s that I have, to them passively.
I really don't have a clue about passive networks as I always have used active and never learned the black art.

I would guess my options to be:
1-leave the things alone
2-push the EQ on the 2446s.
3- add a single 2404 per side, (with a cap in series) in parallel with the 2446H.
4-add two 2404s per side in series, hooked (with a cap in series) in parallel with the 2446H.

I am using a Behringer DCX 2496 in 3 way on the other components in the system. Any advice or feedback, on frequency and cap values, would be helpful.

Thanks,

Don M

Don Mascali
11-18-2009, 03:48 AM
Just FYI the rest of the system will be;

2241 20-100 HZ
2226 100-650 HZ
2446 650-20K HZ

I have previously been using SR4735's http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/SR-Series/SR4735.pdf from 100 HZ, Bi-Amped @ 650 HZ.

These have been modified with 2426H on 2370A horn due to the fragile nature of the original 2416's. I will set up with these, but would like to A/B them using the 2446H's to see what sounds better, for future use.

I usually play in fairly large Church Halls or outside for AA functions.

grumpy
11-18-2009, 06:59 AM
Should be EQ-ing the 2380 anyway... using an electronic crossover with
this compensation built in?

I've not felt the need to augment almost that exact grouping of components
with a tweeter for the limited PA/outside-party setups I've done or worked
with.

Don Mascali
11-18-2009, 09:14 AM
Thanks Grumpy,
This will be the first time out for the 2446H/2380A combo for me.

The X-over has a parametric and/or graphic EQ, and time alignment functions available. I will pink the room during set up, but I have seen discussion about the Hi end on some horns and was worried about it.

So I guess option 2 is it. :thmbsup:

jcrobso
11-18-2009, 10:55 AM
One thing to think about is that the 2446 has a sensitivity of 107~110 db depending on the horn, where as the 2404 has a sensitivity of 105db. Since you are thinking about adding the 2404 passively they will be 2~5 db lower than the 2446. What they add will be small and only audible at close range.
For live sound I don't worry about anything over 15kHz, Distance, crowd noise and environmental conditions will mask sounds above 15Khz.

SMKSoundPro
11-18-2009, 12:12 PM
I have the same basic configuration for my ballroom. I used one 2402 bullet xover'ed at 8k from the 2445/2385 horn. It really adds quite a bit of air/sparkle up there! I am using Yamaha FS1040 four way crossovers for the FOH mixer and two Peavey Mark IV crossovers for the DJ booth mixer.

I have the same basic xover points and considered no tweet, bit I would not go backwards.

Just my $.02. I am sure somebody doesn't like this stack,but it works pretty well.

ps. I loved playing AA dances! They can be ALLOT of fun!

Scotty.

SMKSoundPro
11-18-2009, 12:30 PM
I also have a pair of 4735 that i fixed up from another dj company that dropped them and were pretty rough. I also scored a pair of SR4718 trapezoid single 2241G-4ohm "subs". After reconing the lot, stack them up and cross the 4735 around 450hz, then use the sub crossover (an ART brand model) for 80-90hz down. They have brand new 2416 phragms on new 2371 horns, and I gotta tell you, this little minivan sized rig pushed by two Crown macrotech 2400 for the lowers/ macro 1200 for the 8" 2118/2416/2371 was really allot of sound for a good sized drag show and dance in Fairbanks last spring!!!
lisa and I both thought this rig was WAY worthy for these kind of gigs. I tried it with all sorts of amp combinations and found that active two way with a mono sub underneath was the way to go!!!

Just my $.02 on this, until somebody slams me here on this too.

jcrobso
11-18-2009, 02:44 PM
One thing to think about is that the 2446 has a sensitivity of 107~110 db depending on the horn, where as the 2404 has a sensitivity of 105db. Since you are thinking about adding the 2404 passively they will be 2~5 db lower than the 2446. What they add will be small and only audible at close range.
For live sound I don't worry about anything over 15kHz, Distance, crowd noise and environmental conditions will mask sounds above 15Khz.

You could add another amp to drive the 2404. Put a "Y" cable from the high intput feeding the amo that drives the 2446. Then put your passive 2404 on that amp. This will allow you to balance the level between the 2404 and the 2446.

SMKSoundPro
11-18-2009, 10:56 PM
I am sticking with the 4 way approach. The 2445/2385 horn can be allot, and with the xover control at my fingertips can dial the sound rig in fairly well. The uhf at 8k up to daylight is a real treat with some of the music we play here at the club. Its pretty much all bump and sizzle.

Good luck.
Scotty.

Don Mascali
11-19-2009, 06:22 AM
Many thanks for all of the input.

I will do this thing on Saturday and see how it sounds. Even though at my age and the insult to my ears (Motorcycles, Guns, Mechanical Equipment and Rock and Roll Shows), I can still appreciate the 2405's in my main home system.
I have an extra Crown D75A that I could use but then I'd have to use another DCX2496 to get to stereo 4 way X-over. For a portable system it seems a bit much, I believe in KISS approach. Simplicity has its place.

Scotty- I have been sober for 32 years and I've never seen people that can party like some of these young un's. They can keep it up all night because they don't get wasted and crash out.

SMKSoundPro
11-19-2009, 12:25 PM
Hi Don! I have 18 years, and played many AA partys. The best were the New Year's Eve speaker's meeting with the dance to follow. Our Intergroup rented a city park that was an old bomb storage facility with two foot thick concrete walls. An indestructible place that was converted as a chalet for the cross country ski club. It would be just packed with 500+ screaming sober people looking to get their groove on. I played every old drinking song I knew, and we would laugh at the new comers that didn't get it yet. Everyone else was dancing to everything we played. It is still one of the best gigs I have ever had in thirty years of mobile dj work.

The crown d75 is the perfect amp to drive the tweets, and yes, you will have to have two 4 way crossovers to accomplish the task. But heavens, it is really nice to reach over and dial it all in from the desk. I use the dbx 2231 eq as a cut only, because I have so much adjustment with the xovers. I am using older analog xovers. Real knobs, and very tactile to get the right mojo going.

Good luck! and "keep coming back!"

Scotty.

ps. my xover points are: (per stack)

4 - 2241 subs - dc to 80hz
4 - 2225 low mids - 80 to 800hz
2 - 2445/2385 himids - 800 to 8khz
2 - 2402 highs - 8k to daylight.