Blue Grille Cloth - AKA Zilch Cloth

[saeman]

For several years member Zilch has been offering the original weave Blue cloth to Forum members here on the site. From conversations with him, he is near out of stock and does not intend to reorder and continue this service. I recently bought most of his remains and he has very little left for sale. Anyone interested should not procrastinate and contact him soon.

On that subject, I have located JBL's original manufacturer and intend to place an order soon for this cloth. I will also order the original Black material at the same time. Lead times are yet to be determined but I expect that there will be a period of time where there will be no cloth available for member use. My intentions are to order this material to cover my own needs in the future and I am not motivated in any way to make this a resale business. I will allocate a certain amount of the total to supply the needs of Forum Members, for as long as it lasts.

As Zilch knows, the minimum quantity requirements for placing an order is a ton of money up front, but there is no other choice if the supply of cloth is to continue. I will post again when I know that the cloth is on it's way.

Rick

[4313B]

Cool!

Thank you sir!

And a special thanks to G.T., as always, for making this possible. :yes:

[grumpy]

Congrats to Zilch for nearly completing his generous, up-front investment
(having partaken, myself).

Thanks to you (Saeman) for offering to continue this valuable service,
as your tolerance, time, interest, resources, and material availability permits.

[BMWCCA]

As Zilch knows, the minimum quantity requirements for placing an order is a ton of money up front, but there is no other choice if the supply of cloth is to continue. I will post again when I know that the cloth is on it's way.
Thanks for the update, and warning.

:dont-know Is it possible to know what those minimum-quantity requirements are? And, for those of us with unfettered acquisitive disorders or cats with their natural claws, how would we go about satisfying our concern for future availability? Is here a finite supply from the manufacturer or can we order that minimum quantity from them individually, if that information was shared?

I wouldn't mind guarantying my speakers a life-time supply...which will likely carry them beyond my lifetime. And someone's got to continue Zilch's good work!

Thanks again.
;)

[saeman]

Thanks Grumpy:

I suspect I will have no issues supplying this cloth for the foreseeable future. My interest in JBL has now spanned 36 years without fail. I built my first pair of JBL's in 1973 (Black Walnut Sovereign I's) and bought my first real pair in 1974 (Golden Oak S8R Sovereign I's). It would be interesting to know where the walnut Sov's are today. My originals are sitting in the bedroom to this day and I listen to them near every night till my lights go out. I expect to maintain my JBL fervor until I'm just too old to function so don't worry about me drifting away.

Rick

[saeman]

Minimum quantity requirements for a given color is 500 yards. This might not sound like a lot but it equates to 8500 square feet of material. There is no wiggle room on this requirement; believe me I tried. For a manufacturer this is not a big order and I consider my self lucky that they accepted the order.

Besides the traditional Pro Monitor colors of Blue and Black, I would dearly like to have other colors like Camel, Brown and JBL's beautiful Maroon used on the later Ti Series. But - what the hell would I ever do with 500 yards of any of those colors? If anyone is interested in investing with me in other colors let me know. As you all know, the weave quality is very good and we could possibly also use it for drapes, capes, komonos, etc.

Rick


Thanks for the update, and warning.

:dont-know Is it possible to know what those minimum-quantity requirements are? And, for those of us with unfettered acquisitive disorders or cats with their natural claws, how would we go about satisfying our concern for future availability? Is here a finite supply from the manufacturer or can we order that minimum quantity from them individually, if that information was shared?

I wouldn't mind guarantying my speakers a life-time supply...which will likely carry them beyond my lifetime. And someone's got to continue Zilch's good work!

Thanks again.
;)

[BMWCCA]

Minimum quantity requirements for a given color is 500 yards. This might not sound like a lot but it equates to 8500 square feet of material. There is no wiggle room on this requirement; believe me I tried. For a manufacturer this is not a big order and I consider my self lucky that they accepted the order.As long as you don't mind dealing with individual orders, I'm sure many here will help you whittle-down that bolt.

I'm awaiting the delivery of GAF 30-year shingles for my second roof since buying the house. I'm thinking blue JBL cloth might look better...

;)

[opimax]

I have a few TI series speakers.the brown cloth is on all of them (or could be) If brown is purchased I would probably purchase some.

4 250
6 120
1 18

for brown

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Guys,

I'd be interested in some brown, too, if that comes to pass. Thanks,and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[BMWCCA]

I've got a lot of brown grilles, too. But I think I'd rather have them all black. Looks good on the 4345 clones! Probably work well for the L1,3,5,7s, too. ;)

Let me know when you acquire the cloth and if you have some black to spare. Thanks.

[saeman]

As long as you don't mind dealing with individual orders, I'm sure many here will help you whittle-down that bolt.
;)

Two colors of 500 yards will likely be 10 or more bolts. It will take more than some whittling to put a dent in that amount.

No problem with individual orders - that's why I posted the information. As I said, I am ordering primarily for my own current and future needs but I should have more available that demand will call for. It took Zilch 4 years to dispose of 500 yards and I would guess that approx. 200 yards of that went to me.

Zilch was able to fill a big demand but that demand has narrowed considerably over the past 4 years. If he were to reorder it would likely take him 10 years to sell it off, as most forum members have already taken care of their needs. This will not be a problem for me and I will not be pushing multiple outlets to dispose of it. You won't have to rush an order for fear of it running out.

Rick

[JeffW]

I've wanted to buy some for years, but there's such a cloud of secrecy surrounding this place that I never knew that outsiders could actually buy any. The amount I'd need would be insignificant compared to a bolt, so not much help, anyway.

It is great that you guys were able to source the stuff, I'm not sure I've ever seen a grill that's been re-covered with the cloth.

[saeman]

I've wanted to buy some for years, but there's such a cloud of secrecy surrounding this place that I never knew that outsiders could actually buy any.

Not sure what cloud of secrecy you are talking about or what an outsider is. It appears you are rated as a Senior Member. There are numberous threads related to the cloth Zilch has offered and an equal number of testimonials from members who have bought and installed it.

[BMWCCA]

I have a few TI series speakers.the brown cloth is on all of them (or could be) If brown is purchased I would probably purchase some. I just took a look at the color of the cloth on my L80Ts compared to my L112 and L96s and the older models are definitely brown, almost a reddish brown, but it's entirely questionable if the two pair of L80Ts are brown or closer to black. Regardless, they are not the same color as the '80s stuff. I'll take them outside if the sun ever comes out again and have a look in the sun. I only mention it because if Rick did happen to get excited about acquiring 500-yards of brown, it might not be the same brown that Mark is anticipating, or it might. The L80Ts are about as brown as the L7s are brown, and that's not-very. :blink:

Also, the fabric on the older grilles (L96, L112, L150A) has a coarser "weave" compared to the stretchier "cellular" look of the T's and the L7s. The 4345 black cloth comes in somewhere in between but Rick most likely knows how that compares to the "Zilch" cloth since they were his creation. My 4320 boxes with Heather's blue Zilch-cloth grilles are stored away and I can't compare them right now. :)

[saeman]

The blue cloth offered by Zilch and soon by me, is identical to that used by JBL in the 70's thru mid 80's. The manufacturer may have changed over the years but I believe that the weave/pattern has remained the same. For clarification, I have seen original so called Navy Blue cloth that were undoubtedly different shades but the pattern was the same. This is likely a die lot difference. Per the manufacturer the cloth is a double knit, diamond pattern. This same design has been used by other manufacturers besides JBL. The Navy Blue has only been made for JBL but black and other colors have been supplied for others.

Brown - The brown cloth used in the 70's for models like the Decades (L16, etc.) was the diamond pattern. The L112's I once owned were the same. I am not sure about later models but I have seen some that used a lighter weave that was stretchier, maybe a tight single knit. If I manage to assemble enough interest to order brown or some other color, it will be the double knit diamond pattern.

All black cloth that has come from me in the past is junk single knit transparent cloth that I found at a local fabric store. This was my only option for those that insisted on black cloth. Now I'll have the correct cloth for future projects.

Attached is a pic from the L250/B460 brochure that shows the pattern of the cloth that JBL used on most of their monitors in the 70's and 80's - the quality is outstanding.

[Doc Mark]

I just took a look at the color of the cloth on my L80Ts compared to my L112 and L96s and the older models are definitely brown, almost a reddish brown, but it's entirely questionable if the two pair of L80Ts are brown or closer to black. Regardless, they are not the same color as the '80s stuff. I'll take them outside if the sun ever comes out again and have a look in the sun. I only mention it because if Rick did happen to get excited about acquiring 500-yards of brown, it might not be the same brown that Mark is anticipating, or it might. The L80Ts are about as brown as the L7s are brown, and that's not-very. :blink:

Also, the fabric on the older grilles (L96, L112, L150A) has a coarser "weave" compared to the stretchier "cellular" look of the T's and the L7s. The 4345 black cloth comes in somewhere in between but Rick most likely knows how that compares to the "Zilch" cloth since they were his creation. My 4320 boxes with Heather's blue Zilch-cloth grilles are stored away and I can't compare them right now. :)

Evening, All,

I understand that, what I have on my L300's now, may be different than what could be procured, and that's OK with me. At sometime in the past, one of my speakers sat in strong, direct sun, and one grill cloth has faded a bit, compared to the other one. The solid edges on that same box was a bit "faded", too, but two applications of Howard's Feed and Wax took care of that, and now both boxes look great. I'm mostly interested in getting both grills recovered in JBL brown, if that can be done. Mine have a fairly course weave, and seem thicker than some other double-knit grill fabric I've used. I have no way of knowing if the fabric on our L300's is original, or not, though. In any case, I'm interested, if enough others are also interested in the brown fabric. My L19's could use some grill work, too, or even some new grills. Same color, I believe. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Zilch]

Indeed, after scores of transactions with forum members over these past several years, the ZilchLab Grille Cloth Emporium now morphs into the ZilchLab Loudspeaker Recycling Center, and the Biradial Babes will continue pouring a selection of fine wines and single malt in the Spa (by appointment). ;)

As my supply of JBL Blue dwindled over the course of recent months, Saeman and I have been in communication regarding the potential of his providing an ongoing source for the material, and forum resources have once again made this possible. As he states, it is quite impractical for me to undertake another round; I was only in the "business" by default.

So, I again say "Thank you" to the many enthusiasts who have supported this endeavor, and I urge everyone to continue the same with Saeman, its new proprietor.... :thmbsup:

[hjames]

Indeed, after scores of transactions with forum members over these past several years, the ZilchLab Grille Cloth Emporium now morphs into the ZilchLab Loudspeaker Recycling Center, and the Biradial Babes will continue pouring a selection of fine wines and single malt in the Spa (by appointment). ;)

So, I again say "Thank you" to the many enthusiasts who have supported this endeavor, and I urge everyone to continue the same with Saeman, its new proprietor.... :thmbsup:

Sir, we thank YOU for carrying on like this over the last few years. It was great having a source of fine deep blue grill cloth, and you did great by us!

I thank you, and my speakers thank you as well!

[Wagner]

Indeed, after scores of transactions with forum members over these past several years, the ZilchLab Grille Cloth Emporium now morphs into the ZilchLab Loudspeaker Recycling Center, and the Biradial Babes will continue pouring a selection of fine wines and single malt in the Spa (by appointment). ;)

As my supply of JBL Blue dwindled over the course of recent months, Saeman and I have been in communication regarding the potential of his providing an ongoing source for the material, and forum resources have once again made this possible. As he states, it is quite impractical for me to undertake another round; I was only in the "business" by default.

So, I again say "Thank you" to the many enthusiasts who have supported this endeavor, and I urge everyone to continue the same with Saeman, its new proprietor.... :thmbsup:

Even better that I ordered the 2 yards! Had I known this was coming I'd have asked for more! I still have a wee bit left.

For those that are interested in the brown; I can attest to the fact that Zilch's "blue" was identical in every detail to the brown as far as weave on the following:
L55s
L96s
L112s
I also made nice hardwood frame inserts and covered them with the "Zilch blue" for my L100As. What a lovely contrast; that dark indigo blue transitioning into that deep dark Walnut. Beautiful!

I, for the life of me, don't understand the attraction for the brown but that is just my opinion. For the speakers I have listed, and many others, "blue" or "indigo" as it is referred to in some literature, was an authentic option, so I enjoyed the fact that my restorations remained "historically correct" and accurate.

I have been happy every time throwing that ugly ass brown in the trash! :barf:;) :D
(my opinion only)

Thank you Zilch for all your help! :bouncy:
Thomas

[John]

Rick you can put me down for some of the black stuff :blah:

[lgvenable]

I'll order both colors when you get them

[saeman]

I recently placed the order for both the blue and black cloth. The black will be made first and should arrive the first week of January with the blue following along approx. 2 weeks later.

This hugh pile of cloth will be a serious problem for handling and storage since I do not have a dedicated area to leave it sitting. Upon it's arrival I will set up an area and precut a portion that I will dedicate to shipping out to all of those interested. I can then store it until there is a future need.

I will be precutting the material in 2 yd, 3 yd and 5 yd pieces which will be pre boxed and ready to ship when someone wants it. I will not have the time or space to leave it sitting to cut when I receive a request. If there is someone who wants a larger amount we can discuss that request as a separate issue. Most needs for the blue cloth were long ago filled by Zilch so I am not expecting a major flood. This is the most efficient way for me to handle the dispersion to those still in need.

Cost will be $15 per yard plus shipping. A yard of cloth measures approx. 68" wide (roll length) x 36". This is approx. 17 square feet.

I will ship within the U.S. using USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Boxes. I will post again after I determine the required box size and cost for the precut pieces of cloth. Overseas shipping will also be via USPS at prevailing rates for the weight of the parcel.

Let me know if you need further info.

Rick

[dkalsi]

Thanks for the update Rick,

I will follow up with you in mid-Jan when I will purchase 2-yards of Blue cloth for my DIY 4345.

Cheers,
D

[majick47]

Thanks Zilch for going a BIG extra mile for us!

[saeman]

Update - One step further to getting the grille cloth supply flowing again !! Today the blue cloth arrived and it appears to be a mountain of material. Six big rolls equating to approx. 500 yards are now completely filling the back of my son's Jeep. I don't know what I'll do when in 3 days the same amount of black cloth arrives.

Storage is my initial concern and then I will start pre-cutting and making small parcels ready to ship. All interested please reply. For now I intend to precut in 2 yard, 3 yard and 5 yard pieces and prepack. This will be necessary as storage, for the time being, is going to be a major problem. I do not have a clean area where I can leave it sitting out to cut and pack on a daily basis.

Happy New Year - Rick

[Zilch]

One active roll of each color on a 1-1/2" or 2" pipe (I forget which size) on like a barbell storage rack, fold-up table in front. The rest was in storage until needed, one roll at a time. A poly drop cloth over the top kept it clean.

http://www.yorkfitness.com/Storage-Racks-item-638/York-ETS-Barbell-Rack---Holds-4-Bars.html

[saeman]

Happy Hew Year All You JBL Nuts

I have received a few requests for cloth over the past couple of weeks. I'm not quite ready to start shipping yet but will hopefully be ready soon. I don't want anyone to think they're being ignored so this update was in order.

I have received the blue cloth but the black has not yet arrived. I will be here this coming week for sure as it's already been shipped. Upon it's arrival I will start the cutting adventure and get parcels ready to ship. At that time I will answer all PM's and get shipping information from each individual.

Shipping method will be via USPS Flat Rate Box for all orders in the 2-5 yard arena. If someone wants a larger chunk then UPS might be easier. I have not been impressed with the USPS Flat Rate program as it appears to favor heavier parcels, leaving lighter parcels being charged at a hefty rate. If this comes to be the case, I will abandon their free Flat Rate Boxes and simply ship Priority Mail. Rest assured I will find the cheapest way (combined shipping and packing) to get it to it's destination. Let me ease into this adventure to see what happens.

Shipping overseas is simple with one option - USPS International Priority Maill.

Rick

[lgvenable]

Hey Rick
If you lay the dark blue out side to side with Zilch's lot, how close is the color match?
Larry

[saeman]

Color match should not be a problem. This cloth was manufactured by the same company as the cloth bought by Zilch and by the same manufacturer that has made it for JBL for many many years - same weave design, same color spec, etc. etc.

Keep in mind that with all manufacturers there might be a small difference in color between dye lots. I am quite sure that over the many years that JBL bought this cloth, that they saw minor variations between the dye lots. I would suspect they would have rejected it only for a severe difference. In my years of doing JBL I have encountered so-called JBL blue in the range of dark Navy to a brighter blue that was a noticeable shade lighter (no it was not sun bleached) so I know first hand that JBL did have some wiggle room in their spec.

To answer your question - this cloth is spot on to the 50 yards that I recently received from Zilch.

When the black arrives I will compare it to the JBL original black that I have as remnants - but as far as I'm concerned - black is black - as long as there's no hint of gray.

[BMWCCA]

black is black - as long as there's no hint of gray.Given the average age of this group, I'd say only a hint of gray would be perfectly acceptable! ;)

Thanks for doing this. I'm looking forward to getting the black to see if it's worthwhile to redo the 4345 clones. Regardless, I'll have many other uses for it since I'm not a big fan of all the brown cloth around my house!

[saeman]

Your speakers left me with 2 pairs of grilles, one pair blue, one pair black. No telling where the second pair went. Black does look real good against walnut. Even though Navy Blue is the traditional JBL Pro garb I find myself sturated with it and am always looking for something that's a change. My quasi permanent 4354's have two sets of grilles - blue on them now and maroon to change the looks once in a while. I'm looking for some original weave camel as I really like the color against walnut with strong vivid grain. Consider a second pair of grilles instead of just changing the color. Once you go black you might want to come back.

[BMWCCA]

Your speakers left me with 2 pairs of grilles, one pair blue, one pair black. No telling where the second pair went.

I'm currently using the black grilles you made, just remembering you said you weren't happy with the quality of the black cloth you had available for them at that time. I'll squirrel away more stuff I may never use. Fairly typical...or maybe do a second set in blue! Probably not.

Dave still has your other pair of grilles but he said they were Camel. He was contemplating building another pair of 4345s and using them when last we spoke. Probably still has them today.

[dc270]

If/ when the oder thing get doing please put me down for at least a couple yards of black and maybe brown!

Appreciate folks
[email protected]

[brad6285]

rick will you be getting the brown cloth. thanx brad

[saeman]

No plans for brown cloth, sorry. With a minimum order of 500 yards, brown would be suicide. Ordering the black was a stretch and it remains to be seen if the black too will turn out to be a mistake. It will likely be a long term investment. My salvation with black is that many other speaker manufacturers offered black and in a worse case scenario I can ebay the excess. Not as easy with brown.

[richluvsound]

These look stunning mate !

[saeman]

It's all here now! The black cloth came yesterday. Now it's a double size mountain of cloth. I have completed cutting the black as necessary to fill anticipated initial demands and will cut the blue later today.

To all who have sent PM's of interest, please mail me with desired color, amount and include your complete mailing address. I will mail back with total including shipping. Payment can be USPS money order, PayPal or cash for anyone in the position to pick it up personally.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, price is $15/yard. The material is pre-cut into 2 yard, 3 yard and 5 yard pieces and will be boxed in the next few days and ready to go.

When I placed large orders with Zilch (15 yards and up) he kicked in shipping. I expect to be able to do the same if anyone wants a large quantity.

Rick

[ratitifb]

just ordered 5 yards of blue plus 3 yards of black for my babies :p

Thanks so much Rick

and happy new year to all ;)

[withTarragon]

My application is a bit oddball, hence my question.

How much stretch does the fabric have and does it stretch in both directions?. I need to have it follow a contour along the substrate.

Thanks,
-Tom

[saeman]

The fabric stretches however I would not know how to quantify the amount it will stretch. It will stretch around corners and curved surfaces.

[Cosmo]

AWESOME ! Hello folks cloth arrived and is very nice indeed.Don't hesitate it is very nice fabric.Super fast shipping!Great Job Rick Thank You So Much now my speakers will look great again Thanks to you ! :applaud: :bouncy: ;) Thanks Again !

[ratitifb]

Cloth got home :applaud:

I have stock now for all my babies if needed :p

Many thanks Rick ;)