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View Full Version : I found the JBL "Goop" guy !!!



Harvey Gerst
10-16-2009, 06:44 AM
I just got back from AES in New York where I ran into the son of the man that made the original "edge goop" for JBL. After the man passed away, his two sons inherited all his notebooks with the original formulas. His other son is a chemist living in Garland and he's capable of duplicating the original formula.

He's gonna call me with his brother's name and address and I'll keep everybody informed.

mikeharris
10-16-2009, 07:04 AM
I just got back from AES in New York where I ran into the son of the man that made the original "edge goop" for JBL. After the man passed away, his two sons inherited all his notebooks with the original formulas. His other son is a chemist living in Garland and he's capable of duplicating the original formula.

He's gonna call me with his brother's name and address and I'll keep everybody informed.

is goop the Brown Bostik we used in ConeHead school ??

Harvey Gerst
10-16-2009, 07:07 AM
is goop the Brown Bostik we used in ConeHead school ??
I don't think so, but I'll ask him. :p

grumpy
10-16-2009, 07:19 AM
for treating paper (or cloth?) surrounds, I would expect...

Harvey Gerst
10-16-2009, 07:33 AM
for treating paper (or cloth?) surrounds, I would expect...
Yup. Apparently, we (JBL) use to buy it 55 gallons at a time, but he had to supply it in 1 gallon containers.

Eaulive
10-16-2009, 11:07 AM
You mean the goop that drips off my 123-As and 2213Hs after sitting a couple of years in Carribean climate ? :D

I have to rotate the woofers every 2 years or so so it doesn't drip :banghead:

jcrobso
10-16-2009, 01:17 PM
You mean the goop that drips off my 123-As and 2213Hs after sitting a couple of years in Carribean climate ? :D

I have to rotate the woofers every 2 years or so so it doesn't drip :banghead:

Keep them cool, I'm sure that is not an easy thing for you to do. With the weather in Chicago mine don't even want to move.:blink:

robertbartsch
10-20-2009, 11:01 AM
Did the "goop" guy also supply this same product to Altec Lansing? I always thought the Altec "goop" was "goopier" than the JBL "goop," but I could be wrong as they both might have used the same "goop."

Thx.

SMKSoundPro
10-20-2009, 02:28 PM
Goop me in! Thank you Mr. Harvey! Keep us informed of the progress.

Thank you.
Scotty.

lgvenable
11-03-2009, 08:21 PM
at the risk of being trite. Count me in for some goop too.
Larry

Maistrow
11-04-2009, 12:01 PM
Hello everyone,
I am the “JBL Goop” guy. I have memories of working with my father during school vacation, filling 55, one gallon cans with “goop”. My brother and I have located my father’s original formula for the JBL goop. As this isn’t some little weekend garage project, we need to know if there is a real need for the product today before we proceed with purchasing raw materials and set up of manufacturing.
Thank you for your feedback,
JBL Goop Guy

BMWCCA
11-04-2009, 12:09 PM
As this isn’t some little weekend garage project, we need to know if there is a real need for the product today before we proceed with purchasing raw materials and set up of manufacturing.
Thank you for your feedbackSo what do you think your minimum batch size would need to be to get started, figuring 1-gallon cans though pints or quarts would probably be more than adequate and easier to deal with for many of us here?

Thanks for dropping in. :applaud:

jcrobso
11-04-2009, 12:32 PM
When you get and idea of the cost let me know.

brutal
11-04-2009, 12:33 PM
I'd be in for some but cannot imagine needing more then a pint or quart to last a lifetime.

Oldmics
11-04-2009, 03:41 PM
Theres always the cost issue.

As a reconer I'm in for some,no more than a gallon-and that depends on the shelf life.

You probably should contact large users of the material such as Great Plains Audio and Orange County speaker repair and see how much they could use.

Let us know what you decide.

Oldmics

John
11-04-2009, 08:43 PM
Theres always the cost issue.

As a reconer I'm in for some,no more than a gallon-and that depends on the shelf life.

You probably should contact large users of the material such as Great Plains Audio and Orange County speaker repair and see how much they could use.

Let us know what you decide.

Oldmics

I know GPA has a supplier and would have to guess so does OCS.:blink:

So unless this GOOP GUY can undercut the price what is the point???:hmm:

Harvey Gerst
11-05-2009, 07:53 AM
Are these replacement "goops" identical to the original formula? That seems to be the crux of it.

herki the cat
03-23-2010, 05:10 PM
Are these replacement "goops" identical to the original formula? That seems to be the crux of it.


I remember posting a reply (which is no longer there) in this thread some time back in 2009 stating: "you can get all the goop you want from the Home Depot Stores packaged in tubes." We used goop on the RCA LC1-A, Olson Duo-Cone wide Range 15" Broadcast Monitor Speaker "paper-cone edge." Everybody thought it was a detergent.

cheers, herki the cat

robertbartsch
03-24-2010, 12:27 PM
Is the goop used soley to plug the air GAPs in the cloth surounds or is there damping or other design reasons for using GOOP?

...just curious

Thx....

Harvey Gerst
03-24-2010, 12:41 PM
Is the goop used soley to plug the air GAPs in the cloth surrounds or is there damping or other design reasons for using GOOP?

...just curious

Thx....
Yes, it was originally only used on the JBL D123 cloth surround. I figured it would also be useful to prevent the paper surrounds on the "F" series from cracking.

herki the cat
03-24-2010, 11:35 PM
Yes, it was originally only used on the JBL D123 cloth surround. I figured it would also be useful to prevent the paper surrounds on the "F" series from cracking.



Harvey Gerst;283577 states: "Yes, goop was originally only used on the JBL D123 cloth surround. I figured it would also be useful to prevent the paper surrounds on the "F" series from cracking."

Harvey, It is a small world; RCA learned from your experience with the JBL D123 cloth surround to implement the quality of goop on the paper edge of the RCA LC1-A monitor cone, also the up-grade RCA LC1-C with the cloth surround which dropped the free air FS to 20 Hz.

BTW, I learned recently from Moyen Co., customer service that Moyen Co., is not the manufacturer of goop, a mistake in my post. The Goop manufacturer has been identified in this thread.by member Maistrow in his post titled: "Hello From The Goop Guy"

cheers, herki the cat

Mr. Widget
03-29-2010, 09:31 AM
This thread has really gone downhill .....moderators, if you please ?I think a fair amount of pruning is in order...

A number of posts that were unrelated to this thread were moved here: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28229


Widget

Eaulive
04-10-2011, 02:24 PM
Goop guy never came back and I can't access the link above...

I need GOOP! :D
Two of my 123A-1 and my 2213h are running dry :crying:

jerry_rig
04-10-2011, 07:16 PM
After much searching and many calls to manufacturers and repair outfits, I finally found the magic goop used to treat cloth surrounds. An outfit called Simply Speakers caries it: Foam Guard-Speaker Foam Edge Sealer, White PVA, MI-1291FG

http://www.simplyspeakers.com/speaker-repair-cone-edge-sealer-mi-1291fg.html

It comes out of the bottle white, but dries clear and stays slightly tacky. It's the real thing.

Eaulive
04-10-2011, 07:28 PM
After much searching and many calls to manufacturers and repair outfits, I finally found the magic goop used to treat cloth surrounds. An outfit called Simply Speakers caries it: Foam Guard-Speaker Foam Edge Sealer, White PVA, MI-1291FG

http://www.simplyspeakers.com/speaker-repair-cone-edge-sealer-mi-1291fg.html

It comes out of the bottle white, but dries clear and stays slightly tacky. It's the real thing.

Hey, thanks!
I don't think it's the real thing since the JBL goop is black but at that price I will find out.

John
04-10-2011, 10:29 PM
Hey, thanks!
I don't think it's the real thing since the JBL goop is black but at that price I will find out.

Your right it is not the real thing. The stuff Simply Speakers sells is weldbond glue perhaps watered down a bit. :(

The Jbl and altec goop is clear and only looks black after it is applied.:)

tomt
09-07-2011, 02:33 PM
my understanding is that AirFlex 5100, was used with the Altecs.

http://www.airproducts.com/

lgvenable
09-08-2011, 05:20 AM
my understanding is that AirFlex 5100, was used with the Altecs.

http://www.airproducts.com/

I'd be careful here. Vinyl acetates like Airflex 5100 have a Tg of around 30C, which means their flexibility might be less than folks wanting "goop" would expect. I dont have a Tg (glass transition temp) on Airflex 5100; as my statement is based on what the typical Tg of vinyl acetates are. Note, I'm not sure if its a homopolymer or a co- or terpolymer If its a homopolymer, they are usually much less flexible than a block co-polymer based on VAE.

That said you could wreck a perfectly good surround/cone needing goop with a material that is not a dead nuts match to "goop"; VAE's are not what I associate with those, perhaps a LWM-PUR (low molecular weight polyurethane) or a LWM polyester. The trick here is; from my personal observation on my equipment, goop is a very low molecular weight material which exhibits "cold flow"; hence it pools to one side or the other and is in some degree mobile on the surround over time.

herki the cat
11-04-2011, 09:01 PM
Harvey Gerst;283577 states: "Yes, goop was originally only used on the JBL D123 cloth surround. I figured it would also be useful to prevent the paper surrounds on the "F" series from cracking."

Harvey, It is a small world; RCA learned from your experience with the JBL D123 cloth surround to implement the quality of goop on the cloth surround of the RCA LC1-C monitor cone which dropped the FS down to 20 Hz. Moyen, Co. customer service states they are not the manufacturer of goop. herki the cat

The jury is still out as to who supplies the real goop. I was told by late engineer Mr. A. J. May at the water fountain in the RCA Engineering Lab that "the goop was considered a valuable RCA asset which was not included in the LC1-C manufacturing parts list, but instead required purchasing to consult Engineering for the vendor on each parts order release." I was also informed by A. J. that he discovered the RCA goop down the street in a local Camden, NJ hardware store.

A.J. also said "the goop was not required to provide edge damping at all, but to simply seal up the pores of the surround cloth." I have not seen any migration or movement of the goop in my four RCA LC1-C Speakers during the last 30 years.

There is an amazing number of goop products in the market place. To see an excellent solution to this mess, Please Paste This Link in your Brouser: www.biosafe-inc.com/ag_adhesives.htm (http://www.biosafe-inc.com/ag_adhesives.htm)

Harvey Gerst
11-05-2011, 10:28 AM
A.J. also said "the goop was not required to provide edge damping at all, but to simply seal up the pores of the surround cloth." I have not seen any migration or movement of the goop in my four RCA LC1-C Speakers during the last 30 years.
And that's exactly the way it was used on the cloth surround of the JBL D123, to simply seal the surround cloth. I decided to use the same stuff primarily to prevent surround disintegration (and to a lesser extent, some damping) for the "F" series all paper cones.

andrew_hofstett
11-08-2017, 05:29 AM
So please tell me..... has anyone followed up with the "goop guy sons" ??

Where's the goop??




And that's exactly the way it was used on the cloth surround of the JBL D123, to simply seal the surround cloth. I decided to use the same stuff primarily to prevent surround disintegration (and to a lesser extent, some damping) for the "F" series all paper cones.

hjames
11-08-2017, 01:21 PM
To see an excellent solution to this mess, Please Paste This Link in your Brouser: www.biosafe-inc.com/ag_adhesives.htm (http://www.biosafe-inc.com/ag_adhesives.htm)

Network Solutions says: "biosafe-inc.com expired on 10/11/2013".

Now there is only a SPAM/Server farm at that location ... no help from them!

And Senior member herki_the_cat hasn't been online here for years!
(hope he is still around somewhere!) Last Activity 06-18-2013 11:44 PM

But - good news - Harvey Gerst was here in September!

Drugolf
11-20-2018, 10:01 AM
Okay, where do things stand these days with the goop sourcing? I need some to make a repair on my Altec 414A's. Help!

old_4312
12-03-2018, 06:29 PM
Okay, where do things stand these days with the goop sourcing? I need some to make a repair on my Altec 414A's. Help!

Yes me as well. Cloth surrounds on the 2213's pretty dry......
The goop on my woofers is red....

Drugolf
12-07-2018, 03:43 PM
Well I just purchased some new cloth accordion surrounds for my 414A's and with them came some stuff bottled up that the seller says is the right stuff. I will try it first on one of the ones I am replacing and see what it does. Looks and smells like standard aileens or PVA to me, but he says it is not.

Earl K
12-07-2018, 04:18 PM
Well I just purchased some new cloth accordion surrounds for my 414A's and with them came some stuff bottled up that the seller says is the right stuff. I will try it first on one of the ones I am replacing and see what it does. Looks and smells like standard aileens or PVA to me, but he says it is not.

I'm sure we'd all like to know about the goop ( ie; right-stuff ).

:)

Drugolf
12-13-2018, 08:47 AM
I'm sure we'd all like to know about the goop ( ie; right-stuff ).

:)

Seems to be staying "goopy" where I applied it to one of the old surrounds about a week ago. I will have to reach out to the seller and see if he will let on what it is. Or at least offer it up for sale on ebay.

old_4312
12-27-2018, 06:02 PM
If it's not red or brownish red, it's not the original adhesive/coating.
Might still be a suitable replacement, who knows.
I'm interested in this because after 30+ years of ownership, My 4312's decided to relieve themselves of it sometime within the last 6 months.
No changes in environment, nothing. Found it after my right side LE25-2 started buzzing.:blink:
Nothing was ever mentioned in the manual about rotating the woofers in a standard vertical installation to keep your goop....
We live and learn.....

Seems to be staying "goopy" where I applied it to one of the old surrounds about a week ago. I will have to reach out to the seller and see if he will let on what it is. Or at least offer it up for sale on ebay.

JeffW
12-28-2018, 09:36 AM
On the 1501FE driver with cloth accordion surrounds, the coating is specified as Moyen SP706.

I'm not finding that via Google search, but Moyen is still in business.

http://cpmoyen.com/products.html

They have a "cloth sealer" line of products listed, and their website indicates they will provide samples.

Might give them a call, describe what you need, and see if they can provide something that'll do the job.

On the 2216ND and 1501AL-2, the surround treatment is called out as Airflex 400, and it shows up in a search:

https://adhesives.specialchem.com/product/p-wacker-airflex-400