Thoughts on upgrading JBL CF150 with l100t3 crossover and 035ti tweeter.

[NY240JB]

I would love to hear anybody's input on using l100t3 crossovers in the JBL CF150's, and replacing the mylar oem tweeters with 035ti's.

If you need any pictures or info on the CF150's I'll be happy to provide!!

I was thinking about doing this to all my CF series speakers.

Maybee l80t3 x-overs in the CF120's & CF100s

[MikeBrewster77]

There's definitely some sensitivity variation between the two systems (98 vs 91 dB) so the tweeter swap could lead to an imbalance in overall sound.

I'm not a crossover guru, but although the XO points are close (if not exact) there are quite a few different values throughout the individual signal paths of the two. I'm sure someone with more knowledge that I can weigh in on the specifics of what that might translate to in the real world.

Best,
- Mike

[NY240JB]

Heres some tech specs on the models for anyone who needs the info
CF150's - http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/CF150%20ts.pdf
CF120's - http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/CF120%20ts.pdf
CF100's - http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/CF100%20ts.pdf

[NY240JB]

Wow, I have posted in a few different forums about the JBL CF series speakers and nobody really has any info or experience with them, anyway, I am gonna carry my plan out.

I have decided to upgrade these with better JBL drivers & I did start searching and deciding what parts I am going to use in each of the cabinets

I'm going to try and start with the cf 150's, I'm pretty sure 035ti's will mount just about perfect in those, I'm still trying to find a good choice for a midrange replacement (screw holes for the mids are ~6 3/8" apart going across the cone) and possibly replacing the woofer (~15 1/8"). The power on these is 325 watts recc. amp and 98db sensitivity.

For the CF120's & CF100's the 104H-2 Midrange's should fit perfectly. I would like to use 035ti's in these, but I would need someone to make me custon tweeter plates for them to fit properly.

For the woofers in the cf 120's and 100's I was thinking about using 2214H's and 127H-1's from the l80t's and l100t's

If anyone knows what 15" JBL woofer would closest match those I would love to know, and same with the 104h-2 mid. I need a jbl 6" mid or woofer to go in the mid in the CF150's to hopefuly closely match the 104h-2.

For all I am going to go with l100t3 x-overs, or should I use l80t3 x-overs in the CF120's and CF100's

Stock the CF150's seem so be extremely high performance speakers. The most I've ever pushed them was with a 250w x2 Sony ES amp my friend let me borrow(think it was about 18 years old) pre-amped with a Denon AVR-785. I could not beleive the extreme volume coming from these, and the greatest thing was, while it was playing that loud at that volume, was the clarity!!! The tweeters are very shimmery, and not piercing at all. WOW. The mids have a raw meaty sort of sound, which to me sounds great, the woofer likes to gob on power, it's a bit harsh with the mid bass, but on the deeper side it hits really hard and has the meaty sound the mid has too. There seemed to be no stress on the amp or speakers, although it DID SEEM that the CF150's could still be pushed a bit harder. I

Does anybody know if what I'm about to do is going to be a waste of time? Will the parts I've chosen so far be able to handle more power than the originals?

Please ask any questions!!!

[duaneage]

I can't speak to power handling since that depends on box tuning and alignment but I can offer this advice. Test carefully and use an RTA to see what is going on as you make changes. Don't change too many things at once since it will confuse the process.

[NY240JB]

This is my first project and I guess a lot is going to have to be trial and error, or process of elimination I guess you could say, but, maybee I'll just post pics of the stock drivers and see what people have to say.

[Slare]

Is that a CL505 center?

Personally, I wouldn't bother with this unless it is purely for the tinkering aspect. You could pick up L80's or L100's that are in need of foam or cab work for about the same amount of money as a good pair of 035's, and spend your hobby energy on refoaming or refinishing.

I wish you luck but understand it'd be a labor of love and essentially a money pit.

Parts Express offers some Goldwood knock-off JBL 1" titanium tweeters that might be worth a shot just to satisfy your curiosity. You could get a feel for the project with much less money that way. They are comparable (to my ears, at least) to the LX series tweeters. Similar enough to a 035.

[NY240JB]

Yes, a CL505 it is, even though the composition of the drivers on the CL505 almost perfectly timbre match the CF150's. I did choose the JBL EC35 over it, it seemed to blend in much better.

I do admit, this is just me tinkering around, but I do have a goal, see if I can get them to perform/sound better.

I have thought of picking up a set of l100t's also, but I also have another cabinet put aside waiting for some JBL. On monday I'm expecting a pair of JBL Century Gold Limited 12" woofers to come for those cabs. I need a pair of tweeters ('3 1/2" between screw holes going across center) and a nice hefty mid (5 1/2 " between screw holes) ANY SUGGESTIONS?

I'd like to use only JBL drivers. So far the only mid I found that would fit is from the lx500/lx600, although I'd rather use more of a woofer type mid instead.

Pioneer CS-R571, rated 150w max. Check out how much bigger the L80t3 x-over and terminals are!!

I'll post pics of the Century Gold woofers monday next to the pioneer ones, and maybee some of the CF's components also to compare.

[Fred Sanford]

Is that a CL505 center?

Personally, I wouldn't bother with this unless it is purely for the tinkering aspect. You could pick up L80's or L100's that are in need of foam or cab work for about the same amount of money as a good pair of 035's, and spend your hobby energy on refoaming or refinishing.

I wish you luck but understand it'd be a labor of love and essentially a money pit.

Parts Express offers some Goldwood knock-off JBL 1" titanium tweeters that might be worth a shot just to satisfy your curiosity. You could get a feel for the project with much less money that way. They are comparable (to my ears, at least) to the LX series tweeters. Similar enough to a 035.

In my experience, the Goldwood tweets do not sound like the JBLs they copy- the highs roll off a good bit sooner. Cheap enough to play with, but not an indication of what the OEM JBLs would sound like.

I do agree with your first paragraph, for sure- I wouldn't bother with this approach unless I felt like sinking money into something that was just a curiosity. The cabinet design & construction is an integral part of the sound & power handling. Moving components from a well-designed "system" into a mid-level or big-box-store cabinet and expecting excellent results is very much a crap shoot. Moving them into another brand's low-end cabinets...good luck with that. I'd predict lots of cabinet rattle/resonance at the very least.

je

[Fred Sanford]

I have thought of picking up a set of l100t's also, but I also have another cabinet put aside waiting for some JBL. On monday I'm expecting a pair of JBL Century Gold Limited 12" woofers to come for those cabs. I need a pair of tweeters ('3 1/2" between screw holes going across center) and a nice hefty mid (5 1/2 " between screw holes) ANY SUGGESTIONS?

I'd like to use only JBL drivers. So far the only mid I found that would fit is from the lx500/lx600, although I'd rather use more of a woofer type mid instead.

The LX600 mid (405G) is used as a mid-bass in the HP420 (140-3,500Hz). Do the Pioneer cabs have doghouses within that will isolate the mids from the backpressure of the woofers?

How are you going to calculate the crossover needs for this collection of components? Are you going to brace that flimsy-looking cabinet? The obvious difference in crossover quality is likely to be comparable to the difference in cabinet quality.

je

[BMWCCA]

On monday I'm expecting a pair of JBL Century Gold Limited 12" woofers to come for those cabs. Did you get one of the chipped-and-broken pairs of that offering, or just a mildly beat-up pair? :D

[Slare]

Good points about the Goldwoods. I was trying to keep everything in perspective... but I've only tinkered with a set briefly compared in LX44's. I guess my main point was that they are dirt cheap and should give some indication (sensitivity, general sound quality) of whether or not 035's would actually be suitable to the project. While 035's are common, finding a truly good pair is a bit of a gamble, and they certainly aren't cheap!

I am a huge supporter of the EC35. Prefer it to the LC1 and CL505 and consider it a wash (some plus/some minus) to the S-centers, which are also great. Given you can get EC35's and S-centers for less than $100 on the used market, us JBL guys actually have life pretty good in terms of affordable true 3-way centers.

Finally, those Pioneers are similar to my first set of speakers, and I still remember them fondly. I see (the ones I had) them on CL around here fairly often for ~$20 a pair and have often thought about picking a pair up just for nostalgia. They appear to be similar and the cabs don't justify any project work. Toss the Pioneer components back in there and use them as shop speakers.

[NY240JB]

Did you get one of the chipped-and-broken pairs of that offering, or just a mildly beat-up pair? :D

NOOOO!!! I got the pair off of ebay for $200. They are flawless except one cone is pushed in a little, but I didn't care, took 5 seconds to pull out. There are 7 more pairs still that the guy just relisted for 30 days buy it now from $99 - $139. I got lucky and snagged the nicest set for $150 plus $50 shipping.

I'lll put up pics tomorrow!!

I'm still lookin for a JBL driver to use for a mid - 5 1/2" between the screw holes, any suggestions yet?

[BMWCCA]

I'm still lookin for a JBL driver to use for a mid - 5 1/2" between the screw holes, any suggestions yet?From me? :rotfl:

I'd have just spent the $200 on another pair of L7s, trashed the CFs and called it a day. But that's just me.

http://www.mye28.com/images/smiles/popcorn.gif

[Fred Sanford]

I'm still lookin for a JBL driver to use for a mid - 5 1/2" between the screw holes, any suggestions yet?

You already determined that the LX600 mid will fit, and I confirmed that it's been used as "more of a woofer type mid" by JBL in other systems. Since you haven't given any other parameters you're looking for, it's pretty impossible to give any other suggestions.

You still need to confirm whether the Pioneer cabinet has midrange doghouses, though, otherwise you'll either need to make them (in order to use the typical JBL open-back mids) or look for closed-back mids.

je

[spkrman57]

You will need to brace them extensively as it looks like only 5/8" particle board (guessing from past experience).

Maybe consider building the cabs from scratch using heftier wood!

Regards, Ron

[NY240JB]

You already determined that the LX600 mid will fit, and I confirmed that it's been used as "more of a woofer type mid" by JBL in other systems. Since you haven't given any other parameters you're looking for, it's pretty impossible to give any other suggestions.

You still need to confirm whether the Pioneer cabinet has midrange doghouses, though, otherwise you'll either need to make them (in order to use the typical JBL open-back mids) or look for closed-back mids.

je

What other cabs have you seen jbl put that mid in because I'm pretty sure that same mid was only used also in the LX500. I have a list -
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:nGBTWtQavVsJ:manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Miscellaneous/JBL%2520Driver%2520and%2520Cone%2520Kit%2520Refere nce%2520List%2520Rev.9-98.xls+C160L94J1970&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

How bout the damping material or insulation, would you pack in a bunch, or would you just get some of the thin stuff and put that here and there inside?

[Fred Sanford]

What other cabs have you seen jbl put that mid in because I'm pretty sure that same mid was only used also in the LX500. I have a list -
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:nGBTWtQavVsJ:manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Miscellaneous/JBL%2520Driver%2520and%2520Cone%2520Kit%2520Refere nce%2520List%2520Rev.9-98.xls+C160L94J1970&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

How bout the damping material or insulation, would you pack in a bunch, or would you just get some of the thin stuff and put that here and there inside?

It looks like there is a 405G and a 405G-1 (I was talking about the "G" used in the HP420). Not sure how different those two models are- I have them both, but in two different houses/states. Pics look very similar, though.

If you're asking about the Pioneer cabs for the insulation, I'm not one to ask- I wouldn't bother with the attempt at all.

je

[NY240JB]

I do plan on bracing them, as far as ditching them, I'll wait, I am going to go through with this and finish them, I plan on doing several different projects because I don't mind spending $$$ and I like tinkering so I dont mind having lots of parts and extra equipment around!!!

[NY240JB]

I'm going to try and get a 405G to use for the mid after hearing what you said about it it sounds like a good choice, I don't much technical knowledge on building speakers, but than agian, I'm just starting out.

Does anyone here live close to Binghamton NY?

[BMWCCA]

Does anyone here live close to Binghamton NY?


We had a member a while back who did: http://katzassaudio.com/

[NY240JB]

I actually met dave before, the owner of JSG Audio turned me to to him but I never got around to stopping at his place tho!

[NY240JB]

Heres a pic of the Gold's. I can definatly say these are very nice, I seen pics of them before I bought them and did see the dent, and I guess he didn't have them cleaned off very well, because after I buffed the more reflective part of the outer edge with my gold cloth, WOW!!! The other woofers are the CF120 woofer (C300L49U1070) and the tiny magnet pioneer, wow many tweeters have bigger magnets!