PDA

View Full Version : ZZ Top NYC = +100 db SR system



robertbartsch
09-21-2009, 10:20 AM
Well after a nearly 30 year absence from attending concerts my wife and I
attended numerous shows during the last 18 months. For the most part, these have been decent sound systems consisting of flying JBL cabs and stage or flown subs.

The disparaging part is the SPLs never reached a very high level. I read here that many venues have local ordinances preventing high SPLs.

Well, the ZZ Top show on Friday at the Beacon Theater in NYC was the only exception. The sound was loud and I estimate at least 100db during the entire show!

Vocals were very clear, and the sound did not bounce off walls causing distorted music. Bass cabs (32 - 18" sub drivers) were stage mounted and their performance was very convincing.

The hall is small - 3000 seats.

robertbartsch
09-22-2009, 06:35 AM
...this is picture of the Beacon

stephane RAME
09-22-2009, 10:11 AM
The sound was too loud, the picture has changed :D

Stéphane

JBL 4645
09-22-2009, 11:03 AM
The sound was too loud, the picture has changed :D

Stéphane


Yeah, it cracked the lens!:D

Is that it just one picture and you forget to take the SPL db meter! I always take my SPL db metre with me when going to the 56KW JBL THX Empire, always.:p

So did you take some ear plugs with you because I wouldn’t go anywhere near to one of those concerts without ear plugs.

You should have waited for most of the cowards at the front to leave after the concert then walked up closer to get a few more pictures.

I would say more than 100db! You have crowds of people yelling and that would put me off going because I go to listen not to listen to screaming mindless cowards adding on a few more extra db! Performances like this don’t have any true reference sound level, unless the crowds no the virtue of silence! Hush and listen for one in your lives!

Tom Brennan
09-22-2009, 11:09 AM
Today Rock and Roll shows are much louder than the shows in the 1950s of such people as Elvis, Fats Domino, Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis were.

But somehow I doubt the modern shows are better.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/Irishtom29/art7416good20rockin20tonight_6UP_00.jpg

JBL 4645
09-22-2009, 11:36 AM
I think the screaming crowds would drown out the old sound systems! That’s why they need to make them louder to drown out the crowds. But if more attended then they’ll just drown out the PA system.

What is the average sound of the mindless scramming person? 90db 95db? Times that figure by given so many crowds what would the value of the SPL db figure be?

Plus there’s the risk of hearing loss, attending such concerts!

hjames
09-22-2009, 11:43 AM
I think the screaming crowds would drown out the old sound systems! That’s why they need to make them louder to drown out the crowds. But if more attended then they’ll just drown out the PA system.

What is the average sound of the mindless scramming person? 90db 95db? Times that figure by given so many crowds what would the value of the SPL db figure be?

Plus there’s the risk of hearing loss, attending such concerts!

Screaming crowds all but ended when the Beatles stopped touring ...

When exactly was the last Rock and Roll concert you attended??:applaud:

Eaulive
10-14-2009, 03:39 PM
As a rule of thumb for a rock concert the last row should have at least 105dB.
The first row should stay under 120 but it's not always the case :D

Ideally I guess 110dB all over the place shoud be the goal, but we're not there yet.

Fred Sanford
10-14-2009, 07:15 PM
I'm gonna be sitting in the 4th row for Metallica/Gojira/Lamb Of God on Saturday, should I bring my SPL meter?

je

grumpy
10-14-2009, 07:20 PM
earplugs for your ears, windsock for SPL :p

MikeBrewster77
10-14-2009, 08:59 PM
...should I bring my SPL meter?


You simply must! And while you're measuring, just remember this:

Fred Sanford
10-15-2009, 03:53 AM
earplugs for your ears, windsock for SPL :p

Oh, yeah, earplugs are on everybody's list- most of us attending are musicians, and half of us are motorcyclists. We all carry ear plugs by habit.

Not sure how I'd carry the SPL meter in without security thinking it was some kind of recording device, though.

je

jblnut
10-15-2009, 06:01 AM
Screaming crowds all but ended when the Beatles stopped touring ...

When exactly was the last Rock and Roll concert you attended??:applaud:

Oh you think so, eh ?

A few years back (OK, maybe 10) I went to see Bela Fleck at a huge outodor stadium. Usually I like to see him in smaller venues but it was a good double bill. He was opening for Dave Matthews, and as soon as Dave came on the entire crowd went nuts. For like 30 minutes they kept screaming at the tops of their lungs, mostly that high pitched young female scream you hear from old Beatles recordings. It was unreal and totally drowned out the band! We left 4 songs in and listened to the rest of the show from the parking lot. At some distance you could finally hear the band but in the venue the screaming girls overpowered everything.

Wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard it myself...

jblnut

Eaulive
10-15-2009, 09:13 AM
I'm gonna be sitting in the 4th row for Metallica/Gojira/Lamb Of God on Saturday, should I bring my SPL meter?

je

Please do, I want to know :)

Eaulive
10-15-2009, 09:17 AM
Oh, yeah, earplugs are on everybody's list- most of us attending are musicians, and half of us are motorcyclists. We all carry ear plugs by habit.

Not sure how I'd carry the SPL meter in without security thinking it was some kind of recording device, though.

je

You could arrive early and go talk to security with your owner's manual :blah:

BMWCCA
10-15-2009, 11:41 AM
I'm gonna be sitting in the 4th row for Metallica/Gojira/Lamb Of God on Saturday, should I bring my SPL meter?
I'll be working sound for the U's oldest a cappella group just a couple of blocks away (in a much nicer venue!). I'll step outside with my dB meter and see what Metallica measures across the lawn!

Have fun! ;)

http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/1999/38/images/e-summit-cabell.jpg http://lh4.ggpht.com/bmswarts/RYnMXaahzfI/AAAAAAAAABY/sKgj5wdR99k/s400/JPJA08.jpg

Fred Sanford
10-15-2009, 12:22 PM
You could arrive early and go talk to security with your owner's manual :blah:

We'll see- I'm going as a guest of Metallica's management, the last thing I want to do is attract any negative attention.

I'm really quite curious, though. Maybe once I'm in I'll introduce myself & see if the FOH sound crew keeps an SPL meter at the desk, or has a range they target show to show.

je

Fred Sanford
10-15-2009, 12:33 PM
I'll be working sound for the U's oldest a cappella group just a couple of blocks away (in a much nicer venue!). I'll step outside with my dB meter and see what Metallica measures across the lawn!

Have fun! ;)

http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/1999/38/images/e-summit-cabell.jpg http://lh4.ggpht.com/bmswarts/RYnMXaahzfI/AAAAAAAAABY/sKgj5wdR99k/s400/JPJA08.jpg

Excellent- enjoy your gig, and your venue. This show is in the round, so picture the stage as a circle at center court, reaching to the bleachers on either side. Both ends of the court are general admission, I'm 4 rows up from the stage right at the center line.

Maybe I should bring a barometer instead- you'd probably be able to measure changes in atmospheric pressure at that spot.

I saw the Chili Peppers here in '07 (same management company), and sound for them was great, but the opening act was unbearable- just a ginormous non-stop wall of bass with no definition at all. I had all-access passes for that one, and walked around anywhere I wanted, and the openers (Gnarls Barkley) just didn't sound coherent from anywhere...nothing but sludge. Once the Peppers came on, Dave Rat did his thing & I took my earplugs out & enjoyed the show.

je

grumpy
10-15-2009, 01:21 PM
I could see where you might turn into persona non grata showing up at
a metal show with an SPL meter :) Funny... Hetfield was in my high school
woodshop class for a few weeks... wanted to start out making guitars from
day one (hey, me too bud)... Guessing the instructor became one of the
"unforgiven" :p

iPhone? http://www.studiosixdigital.com/ ... other, including free, SPL apps exist as well...

Fred Sanford
10-15-2009, 04:01 PM
I could see where you might turn into persona non grata showing up at
a metal show with an SPL meter :) Funny... Hetfield was in my high school
woodshop class for a few weeks... wanted to start out making guitars from
day one (hey, me too bud)... Guessing the instructor became one of the
"unforgiven" :p

iPhone? http://www.studiosixdigital.com/ ... other, including free, SPL apps exist as well...

I'll check if somebody has an iPhone, that's a good idea- thanks.

je

Fred Sanford
10-18-2009, 07:00 AM
No SPL meters, no iPhones, no easy access to the FOH guys, but easily 100dB+. Great night, great people, and Metallica put on a great show. Two opening bands (Lamb Of God & Gojira) were good players but not too memorable to me. No intelligible lyrics other than many, many F-bombs, really.

The only time I got blasted & wasn't prepared was when a roadie suddenly started sound-checking a guitar and it was so loud & brittle that it instantly hurt. Looked like Meyer arrays, 8 of them or so, 15-18 cabs in each with sub arrays up behind them. Crappy pocket camera couldn't capture anything with the available lighting. Attached pic gives you an idea of our vantage point- it's cropped top & bottom, but not really zoomed- they tossed guitar picks that easily reached us.

We were directly in front of their stage cabs, at eye level, so we had a bit of extra slam but not as much as you'd think. Killer seats, aside from the drunk dumbass 2 rows ahead that first videotaped the show & got in a tussle with security over that, then berated two really low-key & happy guys for speaking Spanish, then stole a beach ball from the folks in front of him, then ultimately took a sucker-punch swing at the guy behind him for no visible reason at all. He got a quick & efficient beat-down from a number of folks & was carried away by security to see the friendly police officers.

Sound started out fine, with lots of definition to the drums, but vocals a bit sludgy. Maybe 5 songs in it got so loud you could no longer pick out the drum dynamics, but that only lasted 3-4 songs at the most before they sorted it out. There was no definition to the bass guitar, I didn't really expect any. LONG show for the energy they were putting out, they played non-stop from maybe 9:05 to after 11 & stayed for a long while tossing picks & sticks & thanking the crowd. Oh, yeah- the crowd was LOUD when they wanted to be.

My ears rang a little bit after the show & heading off to bed, not much at all now (the TiVo hard drive in the room with me is much louder). Duration more than overall volume, plus the guitar soundcheck thing on top, I think.

je

Rudy Kleimann
10-18-2009, 09:29 AM
Quote JBL 4645 (a Brit):
I always take my SPL db metre with me
-----------------
Me too, sometimes.
-----------------
So did you take some ear plugs with you because I wouldn’t go anywhere near to one of those concerts without ear plugs.
--------------
Friggin' Party pooper! Obviously you're:
A: Too old
B: Not a Fan of Good old American Rock 'n' Roll
C: Never seen Z*Z*TOP*
(choose all that apply)

Note: If I were sitting close in front of the mains I might end up wearing plugs at certain shows, but not where this picture shows.
--------------------
You should have waited for most of the cowards at the front to leave after the concert then walked up closer to get a few more pictures.
--------------------
Good Idea! I've hung around after many a show to get a good look. But I wouldn't call them cowards. I'd call them lucky! :dancin:
-----------------------
I would say more than 100db! You have crowds of people yelling and that would put me off going because I go to listen not to listen to screaming mindless cowards adding on a few more extra db! Performances like this don’t have any true reference sound level, unless the crowds no the virtue of silence! Hush and listen for one in your lives![/quote]
----------------
Waaah! :crying:
Refer to A, B, and C above

Wish I'd seen them! Last time I saw them live was in the 1990's


Rudy
"If it's too loud, you're too old"