What is Aquaplas

[tweeter]

What is aquaplas and what are the benefits?
Why are woofers aquaplased in the front or the rear?

Thanks.

[yggdrasil]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14236

[lgvenable]

From the top of my head, without searching for any old posts I participated in....which is where all answers lay.

Aquaplas is an acoustic treatment for JBL speaker cones. I guess I see it's main function in improving the tonal qualities of the cone; while damping resonance. While others will speak to the acoustic function more authoritatively; I can speak to the composition > since part of my career as an industrial chemist was spent designing pigments and applied coatings of one type or another.

Aquaplas is made essentially with silica and clay; more than likely with some type of bulking agent. It may also contain a set of secondary pigments to aid in the bulking structure. No doubt the clay(s) used might be to give both structure and rheological characteristics, allowing the proper viscosity for the fluid to allow spray application.

It would also have a binder (of which I never tried to analyze), some surfactants in it for wetting; and to maintain suspension of the clays/minerals; as well as an anti-settling agent.

It is available as a thickened paste. (What I always referred to as "bag bottom paste viscosity" > since it is trowel-able. I got the sample from Blanchford Chemical (sp?). However, the materials available to the user are very thick. I'm sure JBL's version is covered under an NDA, and hence is not available; unless you took the thickened suspension and cut it to get the correct rheological characteristics to spray.

Too bad in doing that you mess up the pigment volume concentration and the way it consolidates. Then again, JBL and their supplier already knew that.:D

Larry

[Mr. Widget]

What is aquaplas and what are the benefits?http://www.blachford.ca/products/index2.html

It is used to dampen resonances as well as to add mass to woofer cones. For compression driver diaphragms it is sprayed on very lightly to reduce the inherent resonances.



Why are woofers aquaplased in the front or the rear?I think it is a matter of aesthetics. The aquaplas coating has been applied on the front and colored white or gray for various JBLs and even tinted green for the drivers they sold to Heathkit.

Typically these days they put it on the back of the cone to conceal it. For some cones it is only applied to the outer portion of the cone near the surround.


Widget

[ROSSO]

... (http://www.blachford.ca/products/index2.html)and even tinted green for the drivers they sold to Heathkit...Widget I would concur with everything except the Heathkit tint part - I have two pair of Heathkit LE-14A's and those babys are spray painted green over the Aquaplas - cone, frame - everthing but the Lans-a-loy surround.

[Mr. Widget]

I would concur with everything except the Heathkit tint part - I have two pair of Heathkit LE-14A's and those babys are spray painted green over the Aquaplas - cone, frame - everthing but the Lans-a-loy surround.I see that they did paint the frames green, but I'd be surprised if they painted the cones after they were aquaplased. I bet they used tinted aquaplas since painting them would add a step in the manufacturing process. They certainly didn't paint the finished woofers... the dustcaps are the normal black color. Here are eBay picks of LE14As and 123As


Widget

[tomt]

Here are eBay picks of LE14As and 123As


Widget

Kinda like the way they look.

[Mr. Widget]

I just followed the old threads and the old link for Blachford is dead.
Here is a new link for those that may be interested:

https://blachfordacoustics.com/product/damping-liquid/

BTW: The product has a guaranteed shelf life of one year, so if you bought it years ago another order should be placed.


Widget

[rwwear]

Has anyone here tried coating speakers with Rustoleum as suggested by Simply Speakers? https://www.simplyspeakers.com/jbl-recone-kit-aftermarket-jbl-2213-123A-3-RK-JBL2213.html

Can use Rust Oleum "American Accent Stone Creations" spray paint to add weight and the look of Aquaplas if desired.

[Robh3606]

Can use Rust Oleum "American Accent Stone Creations" spray paint to add weight and the look of Aquaplas if desired.

Gotta love these guys!!! LOL

So how much weight will you be adding???

Rob:)

[rwwear]

Gotta love these guys!!! LOL

So how much weight will you be adding???

Rob:)

Well. I don't know. It would depend on how many coats. How much needs to be added?

[Robh3606]

Well. I don't know. It would depend on how many coats. How much needs to be added?

Hello rwwear

Exactly! I certainly don't know. I doubt they do. You need to match the moving mass assuming the rest of the kit is "correct" minus the coating. Even if you did it would be trial and error to figure out an application process that will give you an even coat like the original which was also sprayed on. Here is a picture of a 129H cone kit front and back.

Hey Edgewound

Have you ever tried adding mass to an aftermarket kit using a spray on instead of say a mass ring??

Rob:)

[rwwear]

Hello rwwear

Exactly! I certainly don't know. I doubt they do. You need to match the moving mass assuming the rest of the kit is "correct" minus the coating. Even if you did it would be trial and error to figure out an application process that will give you an even coat like the original which was also sprayed on. Here is a picture of a 129H cone kit front and back.

Hey Edgewound

Have you ever tried adding mass to an aftermarket kit using a spray on instead of say a mass ring??

Rob:)

Rob.

Wouldn't it be trial and error if you used the real Aquaplas coating as some on this forum have tried or wanted to try?

Robt.

[rusty jefferson]

.....Hey Edgewound

Have you ever tried adding mass to an aftermarket kit using a spray on instead of say a mass ring??

Rob:)
I'm pretty sure he sprays on a coating to the aftermarket 2245h kits to closely match the weight of the originals.

[Robh3606]

Wouldn't it be trial and error if you used the real Aquaplas coating as some on this forum have tried or wanted to try?

Yes it would. You would have the same issues of not knowing how much and coming up with a repeatable application technique. Much of the aquaplas applications done on the site were from an former member coating HF diaphragms for compression drivers. I this case we actually had the correct material JBL used for this. Coating a woofer cone is a different thing entirely! Much more volume and thicker application on a paper based substrate.

Rob:)

[edgewound]

Hello rwwear

Exactly! I certainly don't know. I doubt they do. You need to match the moving mass assuming the rest of the kit is "correct" minus the coating. Even if you did it would be trial and error to figure out an application process that will give you an even coat like the original which was also sprayed on. Here is a picture of a 129H cone kit front and back.

Hey Edgewound

Have you ever tried adding mass to an aftermarket kit using a spray on instead of say a mass ring??

Rob:)


Yes. Actually more accurate moving mass than factory cones.


https://www.facebook.com/UplandLoudspeaker/videos/161569375265078/


https://www.facebook.com/UplandLoudspeaker/videos/1497375627053863/


https://www.facebook.com/UplandLoudspeaker/videos/2928657370512269/

[Robh3606]

Yes. Actually more accurate moving mass than factory cones.

Great thanks! How long did it take you to get the spray application correct??

Rob:)

[rogerjulien]

Acording to the JBL specs the 2245 got a Mms of 185g.
When I had the aftermarket from speaker exchange,
the mass of all moving parts was 120g.
That wont work out to a Mms of 185g.
The airload on the cone isnt that heavy.
Coating was also nothing on the cone.
Instead of aquaplas I put some epoxy on the back of the cone.
My goal was to get it as rigid it could be.
Worked out pretty good in terms of rigid but doing some messeruments
it turned out I added a little to much.
The Fs was at 21Hz, the Qts at 0.33 and the Mms was 300g when I remember right.
It is a damn good sounding 18" with a foam surround, not really a JBL 2245 though.

I'd do it again, taking less epoxy. 50g was to much, maybe half as much and some
more liquid typ to get a thinner coating.
Wasnt looking to take that much but the used epoxy was thick,
I coudn't cover all areas so I ended up taking to much.
A friend of mine did the calculations, he coated his cones with some metall coating
out of the car equipment stuff. Don't know how his 2245 worked out or if he finished.

Call me blashemer, shake your head, I hope the numbers or my fail my help somebody.

[Earl K]

Acording to the JBL specs the 2245 got a Mms of 185g.
When I had the aftermarket from speaker exchange,
the mass of all moving parts was 120g.
That wont work out to a Mms of 185g.
The airload on the cone isnt that heavy.
Coating was also nothing on the cone.
Instead of aquaplas I put some epoxy on the back of the cone.
My goal was to get it as rigid it could be.
Worked out pretty good in terms of rigid but doing some messeruments
it turned out I added a little to much.
The Fs was at 21Hz, the Qts at 0.33 and the Mms was 300g when I remember right.
It is a damn good sounding 18" with a foam surround, not really a JBL 2245 though.

I'd do it again, taking less epoxy. 50g was to much, maybe half as much and some
more liquid typ to get a thinner coating.
Wasnt looking to take that much but the used epoxy was thick,
I coudn't cover all areas so I ended up taking to much.
A friend of mine did the calculations, he coated his cones with some metall coating
out of the car equipment stuff. Don't know how his 2245 worked out or if he finished.

Call me blashemer, shake your head, I hope the numbers or my fail my help somebody.

Hi,

If you look at FaitalPRO spec sheets ( for 18" woofers ) they spec the moving mass ( Mms ) as well as the static mass ( Mmd ).

Quick subtraction shows that the airload for a typical 18" to be in the 22 - 25 gram range ( for the given Sd ).

185g - 120g - 25g = 40 grams ( so you really weren't that far off )

I kinda doubt that the 300g ( Mms ) figure that you derived ( from ?? software ) was actually accurate.

There's a thread or two around here about Mms inaccuracies being derived from all the Dayton DATS products ( as well as S+L's WT2 ) .

:)

[short_circutz2]

I see that they did paint the frames green, but I'd be surprised if they painted the cones after they were aquaplased. I bet they used tinted aquaplas since painting them would add a step in the manufacturing process. They certainly didn't paint the finished woofers... the dustcaps are the normal black color. Here are eBay picks of LE14As and 123As


Widget
Strange...the LE14a that are in my L99 have the aquaplas on the front of the cones.

[edgewound]

Strange...the LE14a that are in my L99 have the aquaplas on the front of the cones.

Its actually on both sides.

[edgewound]

Great thanks! How long did it take you to get the spray application correct??

Rob:)

Application took some times to get the viscosity right. Getting the amount right to apply takes practice. It can take a few applications to get it right. My target is within 5% of Engineering Standard. Production variance from the factory seems to be 20%.

[rogerjulien]

I kinda doubt that the 300g ( Mms ) figure that you derived ( from ?? software ) was actually accurate.

The used software was ARTA.
Maybe the added mass, 97,6g, was not enough.

Gonna do some testing later this year.