vintage jbl speakers for listening and mixing

[diogo]

greetings everyone, i'm new here so i want to apologize for making a thread out of my first post.

while looking for a specific sound for my own music, i've been gathering some recording gear for the past few years from the era that speaks the most to me (50s and early 60s), as well as a suitable and true to that era as well monitoring system. i became aware of the much loved and well regarded JBL speakers that used to be standard everywhere, especially the 4310s, and i suppose the famous L100s, to some degree.

my question is very simple..most of my records are in the vein of early dylan, nick drake, etc, mainly acoustic music, singer-songwriter oriented, and those are my favourite sounds. i see the 4310s referred to as excellent for revealing just enough mix-wise, while keeping the whole thing interesting to the ear (i'd say this is exactly what i'm looking for).

but i also hear they're better suited for rock 'n roll and 70s rock, and this raises some questions for me, as i love some rock 'n roll but i wouldn't say it's the main thing they'll be "earing", especially not 70s rock. as i'm in europe and can't try them before i buy, i was wondering if you folks could offer some opinions on this matter.

i'm basically looking for a pair of mid sized speakers for mixing as well as listening, through a Mcintosh MA-230 (not a lot of power but i like it very much). i'd say about 60% listening and 40% mixing. mostly acoustic music, old time music basically, lots of stuff with that caracteristic 50/60s sound, but also more complex acoustic stuff: think early beach boys, etc.

hopefully something as available and reasonably priced as the 4310s/L100s, if not them, assuming my assumptions regarding their talents to put out mainly 70s rock are a bit off and they're actually much more versatile than that. i wouldn't mind something a bit smaller either.

i'd appreciate any views on this. cheers.

[Fred Sanford]

I'm currently mixing (everything from acoustic folk to metal/rock/blues/funk) on L110s, powered by Yamaha amps ~95 WPC. They're working out really well for me. Quite different from L100s (which I also have).

je

[robertbartsch]

I think most music from the 50s-60s era was mixed on the Altec Lansing 604 which is a duplex 15" with the venerable HF compression driver. JBLs did not start to make in roads into the Altec dominance of recording studios until the mid-70s.

If you using records and a turntable you missing a lot of fidelity.

[tyler477]

I've had success mixing with JBL L112's also my friend had great success mixing with the little teeny blue faced jbl's i BELIEVE THEY WERE THE 4301B'S? (HELP?)


oops, I pressed caps lock :):barf:

[diogo]

I'm currently mixing (everything from acoustic folk to metal/rock/blues/funk) on L110s, powered by Yamaha amps ~95 WPC. They're working out really well for me. Quite different from L100s (which I also have).

je

cheers for the reply Fred,

would you say the L110s fit the "just enough detail but not enough that you can't "enjoy" music with" description?

also, which one of the 2 do you use to listen to music?

[diogo]

I think most music from the 50s-60s era was mixed on the Altec Lansing 604 which is a duplex 15" with the venerable HF compression driver. JBLs did not start to make in roads into the Altec dominance of recording studios until the mid-70s.

If you using records and a turntable you missing a lot of fidelity.

Robert, thanks for that info.

i'm not sure what you mean with the fidelity thing though. did i gave the impression i had the L100s? i don't have them still, i've passed on a number of pairs, didn't want to buy them without asking you folks first. curious regarding what you meant and if it was directed to the L100s.

my setup consists of a McIntosh MA-230, Philips CD-100 (first cd player ever, discounting prototypes) and a Thorens TD-147. speaker wise i've been debating the whole thing for a while and holding out on some stuff, especially the Proacs 100s, cause i think the Mac won't be able to drive them properly and with my kind of setup they're kind of overkill..hence wanting to find some sleeper JBL speakers that will fit my needs.

[diogo]

I've had success mixing with JBL L112's also my friend had great success mixing with the little teeny blue faced jbl's i BELIEVE THEY WERE THE 4301B'S? (HELP?)


oops, I pressed caps lock :):barf:

gotta check those out. thanks for the suggestions!

[Fred Sanford]

cheers for the reply Fred,

would you say the L110s fit the "just enough detail but not enough that you can't "enjoy" music with" description?

also, which one of the 2 do you use to listen to music?

My L110s are upside-down on my control room mix desk, always have been. Whenever new JBLs arrive they always get tested there, but the L110s always end up back there, usually quickly. They're quite accurate, very good high frequency extension, and don't seem to fatigue me when I'm mixing all day. They also work well for me mixing at low/medium/high levels, not all speakers I've tried can do that. I do occasionally use an M&K sub right at my feet with them, mostly just to keep me from muddying my mixes- once I hear/feel the bass, I have enough in the mix. I wouldn't hesitate to use them as my main music speakers if I was limited to only one set for double duty.

The 4333As upstairs are the "so much detail" speakers that sometimes make recordings tough to listen to. That room also has another system with Canton speakers for general use & surround.

The L100s were a big dissapointment as monitors, to me- they now live in the main studio, and play back takes to the musicians in the main room. They're sturdy, loud, and accurate enough for that purpose. I've never liked the woofer running full-range or the LE25 tweeter. I did recently hear a pair of LE26 tweeters, and was pleasantly surprised.

For smaller monitors, I got a pair of 4401s and changed out the 034 tweeters for the 033s that are in the L110s. Pretty nice for a compact monitor, and similar enough to the character of the L110s that the mixes work pretty well moving between them. 4408s are also very nice, more high end and a more "modern" sound, very efficient for their size. There are a lot of 6.5"-8" JBLs that are sleepers.

I've never heard the 4313Bs, but that might be another model to keep a look out for.

je

[BMWCCA]

my setup consists of a McIntosh MA-230, Philips CD-100 (first cd player ever, discounting prototypes) . . . Man, you need to get with the program! ;)

I still have one of those, I think, if I didn't throw it in the trash twenty-years ago. It wasn't a very good player even within months of it's release and I replaced it with a Sony CDP-110 as soon as possible. I believe I paid something around $800 for the Philips at the time. What's that equivalent to today? $1,800?

I truly believe there are some new $80 DVD players that would improve the sound of your system immensely over that Philips museum piece. Tell me what it is you like about it, other than the nostalgic aspect. :)

[diogo]

My L110s are upside-down on my control room mix desk, always have been. Whenever new JBLs arrive they always get tested there, but the L110s always end up back there, usually quickly. They're quite accurate, very good high frequency extension, and don't seem to fatigue me when I'm mixing all day. They also work well for me mixing at low/medium/high levels, not all speakers I've tried can do that. I do occasionally use an M&K sub right at my feet with them, mostly just to keep me from muddying my mixes- once I hear/feel the bass, I have enough in the mix. I wouldn't hesitate to use them as my main music speakers if I was limited to only one set for double duty.

The 4333As upstairs are the "so much detail" speakers that sometimes make recordings tough to listen to. That room also has another system with Canton speakers for general use & surround.

The L100s were a big dissapointment as monitors, to me- they now live in the main studio, and play back takes to the musicians in the main room. They're sturdy, loud, and accurate enough for that purpose. I've never liked the woofer running full-range or the LE25 tweeter. I did recently hear a pair of LE26 tweeters, and was pleasantly surprised.

For smaller monitors, I got a pair of 4401s and changed out the 034 tweeters for the 033s that are in the L110s. Pretty nice for a compact monitor, and similar enough to the character of the L110s that the mixes work pretty well moving between them. 4408s are also very nice, more high end and a more "modern" sound, very efficient for their size. There are a lot of 6.5"-8" JBLs that are sleepers.

I've never heard the 4313Bs, but that might be another model to keep a look out for.

je

Fred, thanks so much, that really helped. i'll be looking for a pair of 110s and 4401s..i just hope i can find them on european ebay and that they're at least as abundant as L100s or 4311s (which is once every full moon, sad to say).

curious regarding your L110 placement...upside down?

[diogo]

Man, you need to get with the program! ;)

I still have one of those, I think, if I didn't throw it in the trash twenty-years ago. It wasn't a very good player even within months of it's release and I replaced it with a Sony CDP-110 as soon as possible. I believe I paid something around $800 for the Philips at the time. What's that equivalent to today? $1,800?

I truly believe there are some new $80 DVD players that would improve the sound of your system immensely over that Philips museum piece. Tell me what it is you like about it, other than the nostalgic aspect. :)

hehe, well i'm not as interested in fidelity as much as tone and character, i guess that's fair to say.

i really like my CD-100 and for the cd listening i do (which is less than vinyl), it's what i've liked the most out of many experiments over the years, including high end Studer stuff, Revox, and the usual Nad, etc suspects. i'm really fond of it, and despite being certain that it's a debatable notion to say the least, i think the CD-100 is the most analogue sounding cd player i've ever heard...but again, that's just my opinion. it's the one that ended up staying after many "wanting" to take its place...if that says something.

edit: i also prefer it to the CD-303, which i also had (just remembered that).

[Fred Sanford]

Fred, thanks so much, that really helped. i'll be looking for a pair of 110s and 4401s..i just hope i can find them on european ebay and that they're at least as abundant as L100s or 4311s (which is once every full moon, sad to say).

curious regarding your L110 placement...upside down?

I modded my desk to raise the top section (to clear the meter bridge on my mixer), so with the L110s upside-down now the tweeters are ~6" above ear level...not perfect, but much better than the alternative. If the L110s were right-side-up, the tweeters would be ~25" above my ears. I was going to bracket-mount them to aim them better, but haven't gotten around to it & things are working fine as-is. Pics are in the "mega-comparo" thread, I'll see if I can link to them.

je

[Fred Sanford]

The control room (not current, but similar):

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=226439&postcount=73

The crazy comparo-thread:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22268

je

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Fred,

I recognized your Carvin console, immediately! I have a smaller version of the same one you have, and back when I was actually playing music for a living, loved that board!! Nicely made, accurate, and very quiet, adding nothing to the mix. I almost want to go down into the Hobbit Hole and dig mine out, uncover it, and just look at it, remembering all our gigs together!! Fun! Thanks for the trip down memory lane! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[BMWCCA]

i really like my CD-100 and for the cd listening i do (which is less than vinyl), it's what i've liked the most out of many experiments over the years, including high end Studer stuff, Revox, and the usual Nad, etc suspects. i'm really fond of it . . .Guess I'll have to go search the basement! :applaud:

[diogo]

The control room (not current, but similar):

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=226439&postcount=73

The crazy comparo-thread:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22268

je

very neat Fred, cool to see another Tascam enthusiast! i have a 244 (could never get over the fact that Springsteen's Nebraska was recorded on a 144, but i needed something with inserts) and a 122 too. what i get from the 244 are still my favourite sounds ever, that mixer section sure has a gritty tone you can't get from anywhere else.

[Fred Sanford]

very neat Fred, cool to see another Tascam enthusiast! i have a 244 (could never get over the fact that Springsteen's Nebraska was recorded on a 144, but i needed something with inserts) and a 122 too. what i get from the 244 are still my favourite sounds ever, that mixer section sure has a gritty tone you can't get from anywhere else.

There's about a hundred 244 recordings being archived into ProTools now, and the sounds I got out of that machine still surprise me. It was a great primer for everything I've done since- the sweepable tone controls, the inserts, rear patch bay...it's a great unit. It only has needed belts, it's still rockin'.

je

[diogo]

Guess I'll have to go search the basement! :applaud:

i wouldn't take my word for it though ;) fidelity was never a big priority for me, still isn't. maybe it's the fact that it's 14 bit or old technology in general.

actually, one of the first Philips prototypes,with pretty much the same internal technology, was meant to read those digital discs that were the size of an actual vinyl record. so yeah, this is surely ancient.

[diogo]

There's about a hundred 244 recordings being archived into ProTools now, and the sounds I got out of that machine still surprise me. It was a great primer for everything I've done since- the sweepable tone controls, the inserts, rear patch bay...it's a great unit. It only has needed belts, it's still rockin'.

je

i will admit (with very little shame, actually!) that it's still my most used recorder, even with very old valve gear and mics surrounding it worth about 2000 times more apiece.

[Hertzz]

Enjoy your CD 100. Only you know what equipment satisfies YOUR ears.